What difference?
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 13 Registered: Jul-07 | Hi all, it has been sometime that I read a lot of good things about the Rega Apollo and I'm on the brink of giving it a try but then as always, I like to know your opinion/thoughts whether i'll be doing the right thing....my current setup are: krell KAV150a power amp, Sumo Athena II pre, NAD C542 and Dyn 52s....Is the NAD C542 a weak link in my setup? Should I go for the Apollo, how big will the difference be? Thanks in advance folks! Arnold |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 395 Registered: Dec-06 | Giving the Rega Apollo a try is doing the right thing |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11060 Registered: May-04 | . You should be looking at better than the Apollo. And, yes, the 542 is very likely the weakest link. But you could have really botched it on set up, speaker placement, room treatment or cables also. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingUK Post Number: 416 Registered: Mar-04 | I agree with Jan, blimey!  The jump from C542 to Apollo is not that large, I'd jump higher to make it worthwhile. The Nad is towards the warm side. Are you wanting to keep the same sort of presentation? |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 14 Registered: Jul-07 | Jan, A.V. any recommendation to look for? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8249 Registered: Dec-04 | Arien, you could try the Rega Saturn and the NAD M5. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingUK Post Number: 417 Registered: Mar-04 | Arien, that's why I asked what sort of presentation you were looking for. I can then make some recommendations. Certainly the two players Nuck has mentioned should be on your list. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11066 Registered: May-04 | . What is available to you for audition? There's little point in suggesting you should hear such and such before you buy when such and such doesn't exist in your area. The new Linn player is getting good reviews. If it's not in your price range or you cannot audition it, forget I mentioned it. . |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 223 Registered: Jun-07 | Agreed. The C542 and the Apollo should be near the same class just with a different sound. I have heard the M5 Nuck mentioned, it will make you take back things your never even stole...I mean its insane. The saturn from what I read is also very very good. Both would be a worthy upgrade from the C542...the Apollo? ahh not so much. P.S. If you get the M5 I will be jealous.lol.Sell me you C542.Dammit!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 15 Registered: Jul-07 | A.V. - sorry i did answer your question, yes I like the NAD presentation, I know there's alot more room that it could improve, more detail, heavier bass, etc... Jan, Rega, NAD, Linn, Naim, Ayre, ARC , ...most are within reach here....if not in Singapore.... Nuck, I will definitely audition Rega Saturn and M5.... Nick K, thanks, I'll think about selling the C542  Any other CDP to look for? |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 16 Registered: Jul-07 | Oh btw, I have set my ceiling budget for a cdp to USD2.7k |
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Bronze Member Username: Mekongdelta69Grew up in Brooklyn an... Post Number: 50 Registered: Apr-07 | Arien, You might find this thread helpful (if you can wade through it!): CD Upgrade Opinions Appreciated https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/361022.html Bottom line -- with the help of the 'regulars' here, I got a Saturn and I'm really pleased with it (subjectively speaking of course -- YMMV)... . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1470 Registered: Nov-05 | I'm sorry, but I think the Apollo is a great upgrade from the C542 ( I did this) even with Arien's fine kit. Arien, if you are used to this very good value for money offering from NAD, the Apollo should be a revelation. I'm not saying the Saturns, Naims, Linn's M5's etc wouldn't be better, but at what cost/benefit ratio. Try the Apollo, if you find there's not much more to it worth investing, then I say forget it and the rest. If it is, then go forth anf listen to the higher end also and judge for yourself. It's ears and money. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 127 Registered: Aug-04 | In the past I owned the NAD C542. I currently own two Rega Apollos and one Rega Saturn (as well as a few other CD Players and one Universal player). In my opinion the Rega Apollo is a far superior player. In terms of musicality, emotional content, richeness in instrument timbre and boogie-woogie factor; the Apollo blows the C542 out of the water. Try to audition it. But a lot is going to depend on the other components in your chain and room acoustics. YMMV, but to my ears there's a big difference, there. If the Rega Saturn is in your price range, audition it. The Saturn is a fantastic player, far superior to the Apollo on many levels. It's a different sound than the Apollo. Much more detailed, but smooth, silky and musical....in it's own way. I love both players and I find my Apollos fill a nice niche in my systems. The Apollo's sound is addictive. Depending on the artist, genra, sound quality and mastering quality of each individual CD; I find myself playing certain albums/CDs on the Apollo and other's on the Saturn. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8264 Registered: Dec-04 | I run the Apollo, a Rotel cd1072 and a Classe trans/dac. The apollo is a clear winner for all-round performance. And performance/price. I, like some of our members here, use multiple sources. I have recommended the Rega player time and again, and will continue to do so. A $1k or so bargain. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 17 Registered: Jul-07 | Thanks guys for sharing your individual experiences with the Apollo, I'm not still discounting the credibility of the Apollo, i'll definitely audition it, in fact it's number on my list, if I find that it offers more than what I'm currently getting on the 542 and fits my setup, i'll grab it...I'll be saving USD1.5k |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 130 Registered: Jun-06 | Not trying to make this thread any more confusing for you. Now heres my take at Apollo vs 542 I had both Apollo and 542 connected to my setup yesterday which is Densen 110 and Dyn 42s. Moving on to Apollo is like moving from a 3.1 Megapixel camera to a 5 Megapixel Camera, the main difference is the Treble smoothness which adds the extra resolution and subtilities that come along. Apollo is a notch higher than the 542 in all respects except for the Bass which is rock solid in 542 (IMHO). having said that, and leaving the technicalities aside - I did not find Apollo to be vastly more musical when compared with 542. So for me i would not go the Apollo way but look at some thing higher. Infact Arcam t73 sounds very similar to an apollo and is cheaper and slighty warm as well. However you could very well come out impressed with apollo since we all have a different taste. Please do have it on your audition list but also look at other options possibly higher. With the sheer number of Apollo fans on this forum i could be in the bad boy list very soon  |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1471 Registered: Nov-05 | Saurabh, we all have our own ears so we can naturally beg to differ. However, "vastly" means huge. Maybe no player is "vastly" more musical than the C542. That said, I believe the Apolllo is "much" more musical and more refined in all areas. And that's saying something as the C542 is a great cdp - for the money. But Arien is doing the right thing in listening to cdp's in various price ranges. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 131 Registered: Aug-04 | Thanks for your input Saurabh. Nicely done! I will also add that the Apollo also has quite a nice warmth to it, especially after it's been run in for some time and when it's been left powered on for a few hours. Arcam makes some wonderful gear, no doubt! I'm quite fond of Arcam's offerings. I believe I've said this in the past, but I really believe both the Apollo and Saturn really shine and benefit from a tubed pre amp. In my experience these players, for some reason, interact with a nice tube pre amp; in an amazing way. The tubes do something special and musically magical with the sound of those players. It's a perfect synergy. The timbre is so highly addictive and seductive. Especially with the new production Tung-Sol 12AX7, NOS Baldwin/Raytheon 12AX7 and 12AU7, NOS Baldwin/Sylvania 12AX7 and 12AU7 and some of the more balanced sounding NOS Amperex/Bugleboy 12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes. I also have a pair of 12AX7 1961 Philips (Adzam labeled) made in Holland, which are magical with the Apollo and Saturn; as are the Baldwin/Raytheon tubes. Sweet.....musical magic! But believe it or not, the new production Tung-Sol 12AX7 tubes have quite a bit of magic, themselves. I really like these tubes. A great bargain! Anywho, I suppose I should stop babbling, now...lol |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 132 Registered: Jun-06 | M.R Atleast we dont disagree completely, you think its much more refined and musical and i think it is more refined but not musical enough to warrant extra outlay. I agree that the Apollo is better than the 542 on most accounts, This is also why i said it should be on the audition list but i would also look beyond the apollo, like for a little more money one can have the fabulous Quad CDP 2 (just one choice - there are many more) with has a much better build quality as well. I am also looking out for a CDP and was very enthusiatics for the apollo but the whole apollo experience left me a little underwhelmed - maybe i was expecting a lot reading too many good reviews. IMHO( Disclaimer) |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 133 Registered: Jun-06 | NMYTree, Please keep babling Any more info and experiences are always most welcome. A small tip can often make a big difference. Cheers |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2050 Registered: May-05 | Anyone who's looking for a step up from the Apollo should look into the Saturn and Naim CD5x. I'd love to be able to afford a system built around a CD5x. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2051 Registered: May-05 | How they'll synergize with the OP's system system is another conversation though. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingUK Post Number: 418 Registered: Mar-04 | The Rega Saturn, Naim CD5X or NAD M55 would be a solid, noticeable step-up from the C542. The Apollo is a great player too but possibly not such a major step-up from such a budget king as the C542. Depending on your system however you may notice some improvements that make it a worthwhile purchase for you. The thing to remember here is that the C542 punches above its weight. I had to spend 4 times the amount my C542 cost in order to comprehensively beat it. The Apollo to me is a great player to upgrade to from something perhaps a little below the C542 in terms of performance. I think you need to audition some cdps! Your ears, your room, your system and your wallet will ultimately make the choice. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1472 Registered: Nov-05 | Don't get me wrong, I think the Saturn, Naim etc etc etc are well above the Apollo. I don't think the Apollo is the be all and end all of cdp's - except perhaps in it's price range with one or two others. However, being an owner of the C542 and one who raved about it, the Apollo imho, beats it hands down. Not just a tad better, but streets ahead in PrAT, smoothness, dynamics and no lesser, but more controlled bass. It is more musical in a natural sense than the C52. My point was that if the Apollo didn't make much difference to the NAD, then maybe the higher end offerings might not either. Although, judging by Arien's kit, I certainly think they would. I just don't think we should tell people to go out and spend a pile of bucks unless they do it right and have the ears that can tell the difference. Many can't. Anyway from what Arien has posted, we have no fear of that. It seems he knows just what he's doing. Also, when I auditioned the Apollo, we tested it side by side with the C542 and switched from one to the other. Even my wife, who swears she hears little or no differences from changes I've made, couldn't believe the difference. The NAD sounded edgy and sluggish by comparison, apart from the other traits I mentioned. And she certainly wasn't the one who wanted to spend the money. Anyway, Arien, will look forward to your auditioning results. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 625 Registered: May-06 | NMyTree, I completely agree with the tube pre-amp and how well the Apollo and Saturn mate with that set up. I have a tube pre but have not a clue what those tubes you listed would do for or to my sound. Perhaps you can send me a PM with some more info. I already bought a replacement set of matching tubes for my Rogue pre. Caution on auditioning Saturn or Apollo; they have to be playing for about an hour before you begin your listening. Just having the dealer turn the unit on in advance isn't going to cut it. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 18 Registered: Jul-07 | Thank you very much guys for the much needed inputs, it's quite a lot and varies from person to person's experiences....Now it all boils down to auditioning, I have to do my part in this respect...I'll let you know how it goes guys,thanks again, very much appreciated.... |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 133 Registered: Aug-04 | Unfortunately Michael, neither do I. I have no idea how any of the tubes mentioned would behave or sound in your system. I've never had any of your amps/pre amps and speakers. I only know how they sound and behave in my gear. Tubes can sound/behave drastically different in different component designs, with different internal parts and with a different chain of gear. I have a suggestion. I'll e-mail you with it. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 19 Registered: Jul-07 | Hi, there are several old CDPs but high end one available in the secondhand market, such player as ARC CD2, krell 300CD...what you think, should I go for older ones as mentioned or better embark on the newer CDPs? |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 137 Registered: Aug-04 | I'm not familiar with those CDPs, Arien. But I suppose depending on what price the ARC CD2 is going for on the second market and what is it you're looking for from your CD Player? The ARC CD2 is a tubed player. Are you looking for a tubed player? From just poking around the internet and doing a little research on it; it seems to have gotten mostly good customer/owner reviews. Seems like the selling price is between $1,200- $1,500 USD. Hmmm.....in that price range there are a few other tubed CD Players to look into, which you can buy brand, spanking new, with full warranty and newer...and hopefully better DACs. Such as, the Eastern Electric Minimax CDP and Vincent Audio CD S6 ....etc. I don't know how these stack up against the ARC CD2, but may be worth your time to look into it. Reading some stuff on the Krell 300CD and it seems like it is a real quality player. But some have said it is very bright sounding. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 20 Registered: Jul-07 | Another oldies that came up is the Linn Denki, any comment please on this CDP...Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1486 Registered: Nov-05 | Arien, one thing you need to remember, is that many more recent cdp's have either caught up with or surpassed the high end cdp's of yesterday. I have no experience with many of them so it's really your ears that must determine what it is you like to blend with your system. Please do not buy blind and audition. Many a good dealer will let you audition at home with your set up. They may swipe your card as security, but if you can do this it is well worth the effort. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 21 Registered: Jul-07 | NMyTree & M.R. , point taken...I would rather go with the newer CDPs than take my chances with olders ones...which I don't have a chance to hear first... With this, I've narrowed down my choices to two: 1. Rega Apollo 2. Naim CD5i The Naim is of course more or less twice the price of the Apollo...But I've read few people comparing the two and saying that the Apollo is more musical than the Naim CD5i in areas such as bass extension is lighter, vocals are flatter, etc....I'm also concerned about naim where best results could be achieved with naim own amps...But I really would love to experience the PRAT thing that Naim owners are so proud of.... I've auditioned the Rega Apollo yesterday and indeed it was better than the C542 in almost all aspects...I'm planning to audition the CD5i today....the irony is that I've no chance of auditioning them with my own system... I think I would not go wrong with any of these two i hoped |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1493 Registered: Nov-05 | Arien, both are excellent cdp's, the CD5i here is a little over a grand more than the Apollo. I heard one a year ago and I really liked it but it was too long ago for me to really compare now. However, I can say, at that price difference, it was not worth it - not to me. The CD5i makes the Apollo a steal, though it doesn't mean it's not better. It's all about "how much" for small increments once you reach a certain level. I was interested in a CD5i on Ebay here. it was written as new, but it has been used and there is no warranty. If it wasn't for that, at around the same price for an Apollo, I may have had an interest. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 22 Registered: Jul-07 | Thanks M.R., how small is the increment you are referring? Or could this increment be dependent on the associated gears? I've yet to audition the CD5i and I'm also thinking that way, whether the improvement that the CD5i will give will justify the difference in price... |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1494 Registered: Nov-05 | Associated gear is always part of the equation so if you can't audition with your own in your own surroundings it does make choosing a little more difficult. I just don't have the sonic memory to say what the increment would be - if there is one. Then of course, it's your own ears that should make the decision, We all hear different things and have preferences over what we get out of music. I'll be interested in what you think after you audition the Naim. |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 23 Registered: Jul-07 | while looking around the audio shops, i came across the Consonance CD120 Linear and I was impressed with details that came out of this player... anybody had experience with this player? quick browsing in the net, I saw that it was well reviewed and looks positive... |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1498 Registered: Nov-05 | No experience with the Consonance Arien, but have read good things about it also. I have no idea about reliabilty or such, but if it sounds right to you and the price is in your ball park, well . . . |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 24 Registered: Jul-07 | hi, just to update, yesterday i brought home a benchmark DAC1 and hooked it up in my system with the C542 as transport...I am very satisfied with the improvement it made in my system, this small box is full of detail....I guess i need not describe more about this as this was well recieved and a lot has been written about it... another reason why i chose the DAC1 over a new CDP is the added flexibility it offers, I can use the DAC1 directly connected to my power amp, and also as a headphone amp which my current preamp lacks... with the DAC1, i can now complete the setup of my 2nd system since i can use my athena preamp with my NAD C272 and PSB Image B25s... System 1: Krell KAV 150a Benchmark DAC1 Phillips CDP or Pioneer multi format player Chord Chorus XLR (DAC1 -> Krell KAV 150a) IXOS digital cable (player -> DAC1) Chord Carnival Silver plus speaker cable Dynaudio Audience 52 System 2: NAD C272 power amp Sumo Athena pre NAD C542 PSB Image B25s Audioquest type 4 speaker cable Merlin Chopin IC Chord Co Chorus IC Thank you very much to all to contributed in this thread, I greatly appreciate it... Arien |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1525 Registered: Nov-05 | Congrats Arien, enjoy the music. |
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Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 276 Registered: Jun-07 | Arien- where did you get it, and how much do those cost roughly? |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 25 Registered: Jul-07 | Thanks M.R., I sure will....you too... Nick, there is a local distributor here and I got it for USD800, mine is with the silver faceplate... Last night, I tried using the XLR output, it's better than the single-ended but really not that much difference though, I also played with the attenuation which can be change via 4 jumpers inside the DAC1, I set it to 0 DB from 30 DB factory set...I might change it tonight to 10 DB since it gets very loud even a few notch adjustment in the volume pot...I have not tried the headphone yet, maybe this weekend... Have a Nice weekend everyone! |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 156 Registered: Jun-06 | Good Choice Arien, i might be taking the same route if not a Densen CDP, did you get the one with USB input? |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 26 Registered: Jul-07 | Thanks saurabh, I got the older model without the USB....I'm still experimenting on the unit, first setup I did was to use the DAC1 as pre/DAC and the result was good especially when I adjusted the attenuation to 20dB from 30dB factory set, yesterday I switch it to calibrated and hooked it to the preamp, first impression is that it performs better when used as DAC alone... |
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Bronze Member Username: ArienPost Number: 27 Registered: Jul-07 | here's the setup:  |
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