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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1465 Registered: Nov-05 | Interesting article. I posted this on the CD thread also. http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2007/vinyl_digital.shtml |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2301 Registered: Sep-04 | Yes, interesting article. He has the same CD player as me and the same basic record deck, although we have different arms/cartridges. I disagree that CD will vanish. I have a feeling it will contionue and become what vinyl has become - that somewhat niche market product that is the preserve of anachronists. I find it interesting that he omitted to say the most tempting thing - that his curtrent player, the CDX2, can be improved by adding an external power supply, and that this can either be the power supply of the next player up (the CDS3) or, indeed, the supply of the top CD555. The performance of his player is improved significantly and this is one of the things about his comparison to the BMW325i. Sure you can buy a BMW325i for the price of a CD555, but can you start by buying a Mini, bolting on the engine from the 325i and then swapping the chassis later for the 325i? I don't think so - but that's what you can do with the Naim CD player. You can buy the CDX2, add the XPS2 or CD555PS depending on which CD player you're aiming for and finally you can add the CDS3 or CD555 head unit and sell on your CDX2. Can't do that with a car! I listen to a CD555 every week in the shop (lucky me!) and it is a truly wonderful piece of kit. Admittedly it has an evil competitor at the moment called the Chord Electronics red reference. Similarly priced (well, within 10%), the new contender takes a very different approach to music-making than the CD555. Both are fabulous on the right material and each trounces the other on some material, which just goes to show that there is no one true solution, yet! That said, whenever we play a record deck in the shop, there is a certain something that vinyl brings to the party. Of course, we use decent bits, such as the GrooveX phono stage, which raises the price of the record playing solution closer to that of the CD player, if not quite that far! At least these top-end CD players offer a diffeent take and their performance is in the same ballpark as the better vinyl players. They also expose the weaknesses of vinyl - end of side distortion, pitch inaccuracy (by comparison to CD), noise floor. The vinyl shows up the CD format of course with its lower resolution, less organic presentation. But there's no doubting that at the high end the two formats are converging, and at the mid-fi end the Apollo certainly shows that CD can show vinyl a trick or two...the goalposts are moving, and in a good way Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5192 Registered: Feb-05 | Yep, it's an interesting if redundant piece. I certainly agree...cd and vinyl are different but at the high end...(and now even the mid) the difference is more about preference than any definitive better or worse dichotomy. |
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New member Username: Ben_burtonUnited Kingdom Post Number: 3 Registered: Jul-07 | Interesting, but he doesn't seem to have a point beyond "Vinyl's pretty good, so are CDs. Sometime one is better than the other." Personally I stick to vinyl when I want sit down and really listen but find MP3 more convenient when I need music to work to (queueing up 5 albums for example) |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11086 Registered: May-04 | . Let's all give a cheer for mindles, emotionless background music. horray |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2308 Registered: Sep-04 | Ben, But: 1. MP3 is not music... 2. Recording records onto a computer and then cataloguing them is a really boring exercise. It's important to emphasise the difference between MP3 and Digital. An ordinary CD is an uncompressed format. MP3 is compressed and suffers greatly for it, by comparison to both vinyl and CD. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: RevolverSkelmorlieScotland Post Number: 12 Registered: Jan-06 | Vinyl Rules OK! |
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Silver Member Username: Malco49Baltimore, Maryland Usa Post Number: 107 Registered: May-05 | frank i agree that a cd and/or vinyl sounds better than an MP3.however when i rip a cd to itunes using lossless compression i find it a rewarding sonic experience,and one that is enhanced by the portability of the format.not having to schlep a bunch of cd's around in my car more than compensates for the ipod quality.which i say to my ears is close very close to redbook cd via my alpine 9883. for home listening it sometimes becomes a pain to get up every 15 minutes to flip and lp or every 3 minutes to change a 45. of course their are times when nothing beats vinyl.i can't imagine john coltrane live at birdland sounding any better than on vinyl nor can i imagine captain beefheart sounding better. however electronica and ambient was made on digital equipment and made for that format.tojiko noriko or sawako on vinyl? i have always tried to use technology and not let it use me......... |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 167 Registered: Jul-07 | My only relation between computer and music is to sometimes stream 1- when I am busy in the office and don't want to take time to play it myself and 2- to hear some new things I don't have when we have no fm music locally. (We have 3 or 4 hr/day here after midnite! Jazz w/ Bob Parlocha from San Francisco. Good show but not convenient. Basically I am talking about fm jazz either on headphones or steamed to the hifi via airport which has a very disappointing sound quality. Not as bad on headphones. Ok, the question: I should know this but what kind of quality do you get by downloading music from the web and burning a cd? I have not done it. Is that mp3 ? ...or is mp3 just when you put it on an ipod type device? |
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New member Username: Ben_burtonUnited Kingdom Post Number: 4 Registered: Jul-07 | It's CD Audio, but all the "quality" of MP3. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 182 Registered: Jul-07 | I got Grado 80 Headphones today and they sound great on the hifi but not so good on streaming. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 183 Registered: Jul-07 | I meant to say they sound great on the vinyl!!!!!!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4724 Registered: Dec-03 | Hip-hip....? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2321 Registered: Sep-04 | mwf (and Ben to an extent), I was quite specific in my choice of words in that I was talking about MP3. The Apple Lossless algorithm is very good indeed and does not apply lossy compression (hence, lossless). However, if you use MP3, this does use (usually heavy) lossy compression and the sound quality takes quite a hit. Naturally, the level of the hit depends in part on how much lossy compression is applied. The music that is on the internet is usually 128kb/s MP3. This is an appalling level of quality. The iTunes store now also offers 256kb/s MP3 which is far superior but which, contrary to Ben's misleading statement, is still nowhere near CD quality sound. For what it's worth Apple also provides a lossy compression algorithm called AAC. This was developed more recently than MP3 (which was developed in the 70s if memory serves). Using the same bitrates, AAC tracks invariably sound better than MP3. Apple provides this for free on the iPod which is great for ripping your own CDs (or vinyl through an ADC). There is also a new algorithm called AAC+ on the way which is purportedly significantly better than AAC. AAC+ is the algorithm standard for the new DAB+ radio transmission system which will be coming in over the next year or so. The reason for MP3's ubiquity is that the algorithm was free so manufacturers could adopt it without paying royalties, not because it's any good and certainly not because it's CD audio, since it's anything but that! Incidentally, although I appreciate the vinyl medium a great deal, I don't believe it to be a panacea with no ills. Vinyl is a broken medium since it suffers from many built-in limitations such as limited bandwidth, lack of convenience, constantly variable audio compression which is serious toward the end-of-side, fragility, short playing span. When you add the fact that most tonearms swing in from a pivot point, there are only two points on the whole record where the tonearm is theoretically aligned exactly with the groove on the record! Lots of problems, and yet such a musical result most of the time... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Malco49Baltimore, Maryland Usa Post Number: 111 Registered: May-05 | frank great post. |