I am seriously considering - buying a new Densen B150, and would like to know absolutely anything about the same from any owners out there or anyone who has known this piece of equipment. It will be driving a pair of Dyn 42 for now however in the future it could be a Focus 140 or Totem mani (which i am eyeing for quite some time now or even a Countour 1.4)
Please share any experiences regarding the same, i think the best part will be the life time warranty it carries.
What do you all fellas think of Densen, especially the B150.
I am hoooked for the sound, build quality and lifetime warranty.
Would you know what they usually pair it with regarding the speakers and cables. My only worry is if it will drive difficult loads well, specs look solid but would you know if it can take on a inefficient load.
I've heard the Densen once, during a lengthy audition pitted against many others. Its a phenominal intergated amp. IMO it had the charecterstics that I liked in Naim, yet also had more 'hifi' charecteristics as well. From what I've heard and saw, they don't have any problems driving difficult speakers. Plenty of power and drive on tap, and built well enough to handle it over the long haul.
You're not getting much info from us because Densen is pretty rare in the States, which is very unfortunate.
I heard the Densen driving Totems, can't remember if it was Hawks or Forests. No problems. I don't know much about the Manis. Dyns seem to be a popular match with them as well.
Seems like Densen is anoather great product we talk little about due to many reasons like one sighted by you Stu and also seems like there are not many users.
The story is - i can get Densen 110 and 150 at good price or rather very good price. I would jump in and get the 110 tomorrow which has fairly good specs but i think if i can strech for 150 it would be a far better choice for future upgrades and i would not have to think twice to buy most bookshelves i guess. Also i think 110 might not be a big step up from my Rotel pre power combo, though it will bring in a few goodies.
Frank might have better idea - please advise Frank.
"Also i think 110 might not be a big step up from my Rotel pre power combo, though it will bring in a few goodies."
It should be a very big upgrade, if your source and speakers are up to it. If money is a concen (when isn't it?), I'd buy the 110 and with the extra money, put it towards a source like a Rega Apollo or higher. Naim CD5i, CD5x, Rega Saturn, and Densen's CD player (though I haven't heard it personally) will really show you what your system is capable of. My favorite of the bunch being the Naim CD5x, but at $3k US, it ain't exactly cheap.
I say this because you have the NAD 542 listed under your profile. Its a very good CD player, but its not up to the level of the Densen gear. If you want to get the most out of the Densen gear, you need to upgrade the source. I'd upgrade it before the speakers in this instance, but that's just me.
Ok, thats good news then that it will be a nice upgrade. Speakers will be Dyn 42s (i love them) and cdp shall be upgraded soon or a dac 1 shall delegated into the system. Does anyone have any ideas as to how good 110 when it comes to driving something like Focus 140s etc, i guess Totem manis shall be too hard for 110.
Sorry about the wait. Been very busy (still am so will keep this short-ish).
I don't have any experience of the 110 and 150, but I have a fair amount of experience with the older 100. The 100 was an excellent amplifier which could handle most loads well. That said, i'm fairly sure Manis would have been too big an ask for it. I believe the fundamental music-making ability of the 100 is still present and correct in the 110 and 150. The 150 is meant to have quite a bit of power but to be honest I would be surprised if it were enough to drive the Manis. That said, it has a very stiff power supply (100w/8, 200w/4) indeed so there may be enough for small to medium sized rooms (say up to 15ft square). The Manis are particularly hard work; Forests, Hawks etc would be a piece of cake.
When I used to sell Densen, it worked well with both Naim and Chord speaker cables. Densen themselves recommended Nordost which I don't get on with, but which many Densen owners seem to like.
The 110 has a much smaller power supply, far less capable (360VA transformer as against 750VA), so if you do have plans of goign for difficult speakers to drive, then stay with the 150 in mind.
The 42s are great speakers - lots of fun and very capable. I would - as suggested elsewhere - consider the source next. Although the NAD CD player is caable it would become the weak point in this system. Strictly speaking you would be looking at Rega Saturn, Naim CD5x and Densen's own B-400 or preferably the next level up such as Naim's CDX2 or B-400XS (dream on says saurabh).
Would be too hard to get a home demo for spekers in a very short time. The Densen dealer is excellent - no doubts about it.
Frank,
Yes, i am more inclined to the 150, looks like plenty of power, i was under the impression that it would rock the manis . but i guess you are right and they need a lot more to really control them. hopefully the 150 can do a good job with the Focus 140.
Also yes i agree with all of you guys, Source would be the next upgrade, considering a Densen 400+ if any one knows this one?
Big thanks to everyone, shall keep you all posted.
The 150 may be able to drive the Manis, I just don't know for certain. What I do know is that it would definitely be able to handle the Model-1 Sigs - and they are very fine speakers (much better than the 140s for example), provided you like their presentation.
Just received the 110 this evening, shall look into B150 after this demo - One at a time, so thought of updating you all.
First impression - Huge packing box for the amp and the box for the remote is as big as a amp by itself. The remote comes with a lifetime rechargeable battery.
The amp is like a block of metal, very chick (Black) cannot ask for better build than this, the remote is all metal and weighs a lot maybe 300 - 400 gms and is very slick. no matter where you aim the remote i couldnt fail it - it just works.
So good is the build quality for the Densen that all other Hifi that i have known looks and feels like Fisher and Paykel toys - i mean it and the list includes Arcam, NAD, Rotel, Cyrus, Marantz etc etc (If you disagree please check one out and try lifting one) - and brace your self - it has better build than the naim or atleast the nait 5i that i have known, i am talking about the weight, Finish, looks and feel (cannot comment for the innards). All doubts for lifetime warranty vanish as soon as you you see it in flesh.
Sound Quality, i have heard it for a few hours and i would say forget the looks and build - the sound itself is enough to induce buying. The first thing that catches your attention is the bass, solid, bouncy, and it swings better than the best at the price, Private Investigation by Dire Straits sounds amazing, extremely dynamic. So good were the dynamics that it actually reminded me of a demo i had in the past for MA RS 6 which was driven by a Plinius SA250, dont get me wrong but, SA 250 would have this little amp for breakfast on many accounts but dynamics did remind me of that little magic the SA 250 has. Power and PRT - you cannot ask more from a amp rated at 60 watts at 8 ohms, i think it might have a cake walk upto Dyn Focus 110 and i wont be surprised if it actually does keep up with the 140s in medium sized rooms (I could be wrong though), the point is that it can deliver high current easily - by the sounds of it. I have been turning up the volume to faily high levels and the amp sounded better and better. Bass is so well defined and was best displayed on one of jamiroquai's CD - the bass just starts and stop with great accuracy.
The volume controll is superb and makes fine adjustments easy. And the best thing is that i am enjoying this so much wit a NAD 542 and cannot imagine the improvements once i upgrade the CDP. Anyways, might have better understanding for this 110 in a couple if days. If any one is considering to buy a Nait 5i, please listen to a Densen 110, it has few things more than a Nait. Think of if as a cross between a Naim and MF. Not as lively as a nait but Images more like MF - wide and deep. It also has the naim PRT. IMHO it surpasses a Nait 5i for sound quality and it seems like Densen loves the Dyns as much as the naims. Some of us might actually like Naim nait 5i but for me the Densen is a no brainer. The only reason why i keep thinking of the Nait for comparision is because they sound somewhat similar and have similar specs. I shall try and upload photos soon, if anyones interested.
The cables are Kimber 8TC (Which for me are reference for the price and beyond)
Did i mention its Extremely MUSICAL and i am keeping this baby along with the Gizzmo.
Also i dont think i shall be testing the Densen B150 (which shall be even better), i might use the funds towards upgrading my Source as suggested by Stu, Frank and other members.
Now even i think so, listening to the 110, i would be very surprised if the 150 wouldnt drive the manis. I have headr the model 1s Sigs and i think they are amazing.
But if i have ever get the Model 1 sigs then 150 would be a better option, not just for the power but since they deserve bettter electronics, 150 is much more than just more power, better imaging and better preamp amd power amp section. Infact it based on there top of the line pre power.
For now the Dyn 42s are doing such a fine job.
Frank, do you think that the 42s are actually smoother than the 52s. This is what i felt but hard to trust my ears on this one.
If i ever decide to upgrade my speakers, do you think that the focus 110s might be a good step forward from the 42s or not really.
Dude, don't get all wrapped up in the specs of the 150. Try it. You will most likely enjoy it more than the 110 but may think of the cost as diminishing returns.
Also, Frank is almost impregnable when it comes to his advice. I only recall one thread about something to do with electronics and their behavior in transmission where he may have conceded something.
Do not doubt or question his advice. He may offer opinion but it is based on thorough knowledge of a topic.
Yes you are very right about the diminishing returns and hence i have almost decided, not to let the Evil B150 into my house and use the funds towards a new CDP.
No question about what Frank says - he is one of the members for whom i always look forward to his posts on the forum, no matter what the topic is. What i mean is - i would be surprised if the B150 would not drive Manis - not challenging what Frank says but surprised at how inefficient the Manis can be.
And surprised especially because the 110 is driving the 42s like crazy, some times i feel the drivers are going to pop out with still heaps of power to spare. B150 with almost twice the current and power finding some challenge from bookshelves would really surprise me.
I am enjoying the combo so much that i blasted the system for almost 4hrs+ today, i am very likely going to pop the drivers sooner than later
Michael, thankyou for the kind words, although I feel perturbed that I may come across as unremittingly up my own backside.
saurabh,
The 42s are really quite easy to drive so they are relishing the juice from the Densen. Incidentally, I'd be surprised if you really made the drivers pop. Dynaudios seem to be able to cope with lots of power. Of course, if the amp distorts, all bets are off! That said, even a Rega Brio (38w rating) can drive them all day without problems. The 110 should be able to drive them, the 52s, the FOCUS 110s and possibly the 140s. I admit I'm not sure about the 140s because they take quite a bit of driving, but I feel that the power supply in the Densen is probably stiffer than that of a Nait5i which has minor problems with 140s.
I am convinced that the 110 would not drive Mani-2s satisfactorily. There simply isn't enough juice in there. The toroidal transformer is just 360VA, which is excellent in a 60wpc amp, but simply not big enough to swing the amps you need into the Mani-2s. Now, the 150 has a huge transformer (750VA) which should be enough, in theory, to drive the Mani-2s reasonably well. (What was that about impregnable?) After all, even my Arcam FMJ P7 in biamp mode (150wpc, 2 channels per Mani-2 and a toroidal transformer the size of King Kong) only just covers driving these mean nasty speakers from hell that I'm so taken with.
All that said, in my opinion, the weakness in the system is now the CD player. Apply a Densen B-400+, or B-400XS, and the 42s will show you very well what's going on! After that it's probably speaker time again. It never ends...
Your last para sums it up all very nicely - a cdp and then back to speakers - just the route i am thinking of, what a viscious circle.
The reason why i keep poking you for the manis is only because i dream of them but as you say they are dogs when it comes to driving them so might as well forget them.......
I am driving the 42s real hard and its amazing that they dont sound compressed even at very high levels.
Ill try to upload a video on you tube showing the drivers dancing crazy , and yes i have good confidence in the drivers now after driving them mad for a few days so no bets here .
Have you heard the 150 yet or have you decided not to go there? I'd be interested in your experience.
I appreciate where you are coming from on the Manis. They really are lovely speakers. However, they are very difficult to drive and I am seriously considering moving them on because they don't work well in my room. My room has a very big bass resonance between 40hz and 80hz so I have to cut over to the sub below 90hz. Also, since they're so difficult to drive they require huge gobs of power which limits amplifier options. There are other speakers on the market in this price range such as Focal's excellent 1007Be (on its own stand) which is a piece of cake to drive, as is the Wilson benesch ARC (ridiculously engaging).
Sorry Frank cannot share any experience for the 150. Have decided not to go in for 150 at this moment, partly because its a lot more dough and mostly because the 110 is so so damn good thats its hard to look beyond it (atleast now).
But the Dealer was telling me that he had connected 110 and 150 both to a Model 1 sig and though the 110 was very musical the 150 took it to the next next level up with extra power and imaging. I thought hard on some speakers and most of the speakers (monitors) which sound special have a very low sensitivity like the manis and Focus 140 etc etc which in turn demands for a better amp which is again a bigger and exhaustive demand both financially and trialing as well. Also what you say is very true there are few options (those wont break a bank) and would drive these speakers. I am very happy with the Dyn 42s at the moment and wanna see how high i can go with a CDP before a speaker upgrade is due- a Densen 410 is under consideration, which is supposed to be very close or better than the naim cds2 if i got the model no correct.
I said you are reading my mind is only for the reason i was considering the Focal 800 series as well which is supposed to do a very nice job with the densen. Any suggestions on the same or will it be in the same league as the Dyn 42 Wilson ? i am dreaming now.......... Only if the manis were little more sensitive ........
IIRC, the 410 is the new entry level Densen player. Given that the XS was their best and that was in the hunt for the CDX2 (half the price), I would be surprised if the 410 was as good as that.
There is only one thing that puts me off Densen CD players - in the past they had problems with reliability. Densen were always very willing to fix them, but it's painful to have to go through that process.
The Rega Saturn would be VERY high on my listening list. In the right system it is quite scary just how good it is.
The Naim CD5x is another fine machine. Some people don't like it as much, saying it's too smooth. Others say it's fabulous. I think it's well judged but can see both sides.
The 42s would happily show you what is going on with CD players of this calibre - and you may find you'll have to move the speakers since the level of expression from CD players like this is really quite dense and the speakers may need to breathe more.
The Focal 800 series is the one range from Focal of which I have almost no experience. They are meant to be superb speakers, but in our demo room they had big bass issues and didn't work. I seem to remember you having issues with bass even with the 42s, so your next speaker choice is going to be a bit difficult I think.
As I said earlier though, the speaker in the same league as the Mani-2 is the Focal Electra 1007be. This is a fine speaker indeed and in some ways leaves the Mani-2s for dead. The bass is very controlled and (as with most Focals) a little lean.
Wilson benesch make great speakers too, as opposed to Wilson Audio, who don't in my opinion. The Wilson benesch Arcs are really good speakers which even your 110 should be able to drive (limit). I can also understand people who would take the Arcs over the Mani-2s...
410 is supposed to surpasses the 400 plus and 400 XS in all ways and is cheaper as well, and even i would be surprised if it takes CDS2 head on, may be without the hicap if the claims are true . Any ways hearing is believing and i am waiting to hear it in action.
if that is true is Densen killing its own established products? Shall try and audition Saturn for sure.
The 42s are giving me enough bass and hence would have to be very carefull with my speaker choice and yes might have few choices.
The 1007be is high on the wish list now , i think it makes a lot more sense going in for some thing that easy to drive.
Have you heard the new Wilson Benesch Square one - any comments.
Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to hear the Squares, and I wonder if I will get the opportunity. In our town, Wb have decided to let another dealer have the Squares (which annoyed us no end of course).
I am surprised by what you say about the 410. that sounds like Densen shooting themselves in the foot. This wouldn't be completely unusual in Densen's case! They have a tendency to work on product without considering the complete marketing startegy sometimes (which is an endearing weakness in my view).
. but i guess you are right and they need a lot more to really control them. 
and i am keeping this baby along with the Gizzmo. 