Hi guys. I am thinking of a high end cd player. Is it worth the money? I will hook it up to a Pioneer Elite vsx-91txh receiver. I am looking into the Rega Apollo,Rotel 1072 or marantz. I have Def Tech 1000 speakers. Thanks Dan
I hate to say it but those cdps aren't "high end". They're still budget and not much above entry level. I'm not being a snob here, I don't own a high-end cd player either! As for whether more expensive cd players are worth it, yes they are. Only if you have the amplifier and speakers to do them justice though. You will gain more by changing those than your digital front-end in my experience.
I don't agree with the 'source first' argument with a digital front-end. You'll reap far greater rewards changing your speakers than the cd player. That's not to say the source isn't important, of course it is - all bits of the chain are important, but there is only a subtle difference between say a 500$ cd player and a $1000 one. Speakers have a much greater impact on the sound dollar for dollar. I think you should spend more on speakers than any other piece of kit. I'm not suggesting a mullet system though, where everything is cheap'n'nasty except the speakers! The whole system needs upgrading but the speakers and amp would come first for me. With a mediocre amp and speakers you aren't going to notice any subtle cd player improvements so the money could be better spent IMO.
Oooh varney, you ain't heard a front end from Classe. Or the Apollo, which is very close. If you are plugged into a transport via analog, then you get the players version.If you plug into s/pdif, you get a straight feed.
You really mean that you cannot hear the difference in cdp's?
If so then...bless your heart, you can enjoy music better than 100 fools looking for the yabbada yabbada.
The Apollo is defintely pushing the high end's butt out of the way and it is a definite upgrade over the Integra DVD player as a source. While there is no doubt the Apollo will outclass the other components for the time being, this is a system which requires a source first upgrade.
Let's just suppose for a minute that Dan upgraded the amp and speakers first and second. We'll be generous and allow him to have some Audio Research components and a pair of Theil speakers. What do you suppose those products would be telling him about his DVD player upstream?
Uh-huh!
Dan, I would opt for the Rega player (with nice cables too) and consider the shock and awe the rest of your system will be feeling. Certain parts of the receiver are going to shrivel up when it sees the Rega on the shelf. You can't go wrong buying a better player right now but you will not realize how good the Rega can sound until you get components that can deal with the Apollo and not be shamed to call themself hifi.
If you haven't done a proper speaker set up, put "speaker placement" in a search engine and get more for free. Start with the W.A.S.P. set up guide.
Nucky, where did I state that I can't hear differences between cd players? That's just not the case! I own a $2700 cdp so I obviously do. If you have an average cd player, an average amp and average speakers yet you want to improve the sound, what do you do? For me, cd players within the budget sector of the market show subtle differences in sound. Amps and particularly speakers show much bigger differences. The bottom line is that you want to upgrade all three but the order in which I would do it are speakers, amp, cdp. Whichever way you do it you are going to have a weakness in the chain, that's a given. Yeah I hear the source first argument, that's been the mantra since day one in hifi. However, digital front-ends in the 750-$1250 sector show subtle improvements with each dollar spent. The difference between a $750 pair of speakers and a $1250 pair of speakers will be wholesale. Notice that I'm not comparing a $750 cdp to a $7500 one! Also, mediocre amps and speakers just aren't going to show subtle front-end improvements all that well. Just my opinion and one I have seen proven in many systems over the years.
Jan, you ask what would the decent speakers be saying about the DVD player upstream but what would the Apollo cdp be saying about the amp and speakers downstream? Unless all three components are upgraded there ARE going to be major weaknesses in the system and as soon as he gets that cd player home he's going to be noticing two of them. I see upgrading on a budget as being the best bang for the buck. For me that would mean new speakers.
Go read the first post again. The question is about mid level CD players. You've just told Dan his whole system sucks and isn't worth upgrading from his DVD player as a source. Dan didn't ask about changing his entire system. I kinda get the feeling Dan thinks he's OK with his receiver and speakers. Compared to what he could have bought, he's sitting in clover. Now look what you've done! Is that wimpering I hear?
Let's try this. Dan's living in Lawrence, Kansas. A pleasant little town but not much going on in Lawrence, Kansas. Very dull in fact. Flat too! Dan wants a little more excitement and a bigger picture type thing. He's got a little cash and a plan. He's thinking Chicago would be nice this time of year. IMO you're telling Dan not to go to Chicago because you found Paris to be more interesting. Yeah, well, Dan's not interested in Paris and he hasn't indicated he's got the cash to go to Paris and doesn't want to speak French.
So, I say buy a map of Illinois and fill up the tank. Rush Street and Lakeshore Drive is just what Dan needs. Go for it, Dan.
AV, is there a particular reason you're just not going to let this go? Dan didn't ask about new speakers or electronics. Dan has a less than stellar source while everything else in his system is OK. Your argument about dollars for dollars improvements can be made with any piece of equipment. I can show you $500 speakers I think sound better than some $5k speakers. So, what's that prove? Different is not better. Your taste is not Dan's. I can show you a $150 amp that sounds better than quite a few $2k amps. None of that is the issue here. Dan wants and needs a better source.
Dan is apparently happy with his amp and speakers. Though we may never know, I think Dan's been scared away. If he comes back, let's let him tell us what he wants. OK?
Dan, I vote for the source improvement and I'd get the Rega.
psssst, AV, source first is not how it's always been since day one. Linn introduced the source first idea in 1972 when Ivor played a set of expensive speakers and expensive amplifier with a crappy front end and compared that to a LP12 and fairly cheap but good speakers and amp. That's when people finally said, "Duh! Source first! You got to get it to the amp and speakers."
Don't drive this into the ground, AV. If Dan wants more info on speakers and amplifier, let him tell us so.
Buy the Rega Dan, listen, enjoy. If your in search for a new source then obviously you have caught the Upgrade Bug. Don't worry this upgrade bug will come back, and when it does, then worry about upgrading other things in your system. Hey thats what its all about, and fun too eh? Until then enjoy the Rega and come back and give us some insight on what your thinking.
Oh and Dan, I was for a while using my NAD dvd player as a cd player like your are now. I went and purchased myself the NAD cd player, might not be as good as a Rega, but buddy it made a world of a difference. Cheers.
Ay Carumbah! Didn't mean no disrespect, Dan, and Varney, if that went wrong on your end then you might need to realign things there. Straight here.Over.
Jan, you've just flat-out said that I'm wrong yet also that I should drop it! Would you drop it in my position? If you upgrade the cd player to a pretty darned decent Rega Apollo it's wasted in that system. Period. Yet you're saying that is the way to go. I'm saying why put a decent cd player through an average AV set-up? It doesn't make sense to me. If the original poster intends keeping that amp and those speakers then we're doing wrong by recommending he shells out for an Apollo. The dude needs to spend much less if that's the case. The Apollo will be overkill, bigtime. However, if he comes to us and says he wants to improve the quality of his music playback, how best might he spend $1000 to that end in his system then I'd say SPEAKERS. Perhaps we should have asked him if he is on an upgrade path or if he just wants a cd player to replace his DVD player. If we're to assume that he's going to go right out and buy a new amp and speakers within weeks of getting the Apollo then yeah, I'll go with the cd player suggestion. I kind of read into it that he was sticking with what he's got. I'll leave it at that. I'm big enough to know it's just my opinion, nothing more.
Oh and Nuck, why do you keep calling me "Varney"? I don't have that in my avatar, email address or anywhere in my profile. Answers on a postcard please.
"I kind of read into it that he was sticking with what he's got. I'll leave it at that."
Yeah, he is and Oh, no, you wont'! Sheeesh! I knew I'd get a response even when I said, "Don't respond until you hear Dan posting with a phony French accent." Buuuuuut noooooooo! You just had to say, "buy speakers, buy speakers, buy speakers, buy an amplifier, buy an amplifier, buy something you don't need."
OOOOH, AHHHH! That's the sound of the men, workin' in the chain gaaaaang!
OK, where's a wall? I need to bang my head a few times!
"If you upgrade the cd player to a pretty darned decent Rega Apollo it's wasted in that system. Period."
NO!!! YOU'RE WRONG!!!! PERIOD, SEMICOLON AND APOSTROPHE! YOU'RE WRONG!!!!!!!
Dan, for the love of frickin' black cherry Jello, man, buy the GD Rega and leave us alone! You're drivin' us crazy, Dan!!!
That's a great answer, straight from the hifi master book. We should be looking at the END result here though - what hits the ears. Try this experiment sometime; a crap cd player or even a dvd player, going through a crap amp and then into a very good pair of speakers. Then try a very good cd player through a crap amp and crap speakers. Come back to me with which sounds best. Now I've tried this experiment over the years with NUMEROUS bits of different kit and I can tell you that the better speakers, despite the crap source, will sound better. Of course it's a given that the amplifier must be able to drive the speakers properly and that a basic amount of system synergy exists . When you've tried this, come back to me. Don't dispute what you haven't heard. Of course we don't want to amplify a crap source if at all possible but we sure as hell don't want to strangle and nullify a good source by putting it through much lesser equipment. Anyway, is even a budget digital source crap these days? I repeat, if Dan intends keeping the same amp and speakers for a good while I consider the Rega Apollo overkill and he should just buy a half-decent cd player such as the entry Nad or Cambridge Audio players. I wouldn't care if you guys were voicing different opinions but you're flat-out saying that I'm wrong. Please don't say I'm 100% wrong until you've actually tried my little experiment.
Adam, sorry brain cramp on this end. Varney is another poster all together. D'oh!
Another better source will allow Dan's stereo to play to it's greater potential, possibly exposing the present speakers abilities beyond what he currently knows. Beyond the cost, weight and trucking of speakers, along with the now 'spare' speakers, a cdp is light and fast to change out, does not require fiddling with placement for full effect and is likely returnable on a scooter. My apologies, AV, my previous post does read a bit snotty, that was not my intention.
"Now I've tried this experiment over the years with NUMEROUS bits of different kit and I can tell you that the better speakers, despite the crap source, will sound better."
He's wrong.
I've done it too and what your system needs is a better source.
Jan you'd make a great diplomat. No digital source is truly crap these days. Sure the Apollo will be better than the DVD player but it won't make as much difference to the overall sound as a new pair of (good) speakers costing the same amount of money. Fact my friend.
Will an Apollo make as big a difference in overall sound as a new pair of (good) speakers, maybe not. But it will make a very perceptable difference in musical quality (realism) imho. After all, isn't the latter what it's really about?
Adam, garbage in - garbage out, as the old saying goes.
I had no intention of being diplomatic on this thread. I save that for really special ocassions.
I don't know why you want to beat this into the ground, AV. Do you know what Dan wants? He hasn't been heard from in two days. Dan stated his interest in a new CD player and asked whether it was worth the money. He didn't ask about his receiver or speakers and, as you said yourself, it appears he is satisfied with those items and is willing, if not planning, to keep them for the time being. If that's the case, why tell him a CD player is not "worth the money"? When it clearly is worth the money rather than keeping his DVD player as his music source. Why? Just to break our will? Ain't gonna happen. You're wrong. We're right.
It is, it is, it is worth the money. And you continuing to say it's not isn't going to change that fact. So, why do you keep saying it when you have figured out Dan doesn't want new speakers or a new receiver? You haven't suggested what's wrong with his current receiver and speakers. Or what he should buy instead. Or what "difference" he will hear from new speakers and receiver. So why do you persist in this rather insane act of pushing speakers? Just to get your way? Ain't gonna happen.
I will agree with you on one thing. If Dan wants a "difference", he should buy new speakers. Speakers will be different. Different frequency response, different volume potential, different problems for the amplifier to deal with. New speakers will be different. Not necessarily better, but different. In fact, it would be difficult, IMO, for new speakers to be "better" when they are reproducing the same signal from the Integra DVD player. If you want to insist he buy new speakers, tell him what's wrong with the ones he now owns and what he will hear "different" from the ones you suggest. Go ahead, tell him why his speakers are crap!
Otherwise, you got nothin'!
So, Dan, if "different" is worth the money to you, buy speakers. Av is right, they will make the most difference in the sound you hear. The sound will still suck, but it will suck differently.
Now, if you want an "improvement" in what you hear from your present system, buy the Rega. An improvement is worth the money, different is just shifting the deck chairs on the Titanic. The Rega will sound better in almost every way that counts compared to your DVD player. You will enjoy music more and hear more music making ability from the performers with a new Rega CD player. You will be able to listen for longer periods of time without fatigue and you will be able to listen louder and more quietly with a new Rega player without fatigue. The sound will not be bottled up around the front of your speakers with a new player but instead will fill the space around the speakers and make them more easily disappear. The sound will be more realistic and more interesting. You will hear things you have not heard from your DVD player. You will be happy you listened to us and bought the Apollo. And yet, nothing will be all that "different". The overall frequency response will be very much the same with maybe slightly more bass and high frequency content. But it will be clear and easy to listen to. The notes will all be in the same place thay will just sound more like the performers are playing the music live with pacing and timing and all those good audiophile things that a new CD player can provide and new speakers with the same source cannot. But it will not be all that "different". Different is what you get from speakers. JBL's are different than your DT's. Quads are different than your DT's. Speakers are different from each other.
But speakers can only play what is fed to them. Garbage in = garbage out. Source first. You can do lots of things to your system, Dan, to make it different. Put the speakers on the other side of the room, or in a different room, or throw a blanket over them. The sound will be different. But, if you want an improvement rather than just a difference, your system needs a better CD player. And the Rega will be a very good choice.
There you go, AV. I have no idea whether Dan is paying attention or not. But I'm tired of rebutting your silly "difference" speakers will make. You repeat and repeat the same words and Dan gets to decide now, if he hasn't already. I'm done debating you. I've stated why Dan should buy the CD player. Because it's worth the improvement he will hear in his music.
We'll (or I'll) just have to agree to differ then Jan. You say the source needs improving but then you'll strangle it further down the chain. Face it, the whole system needs upgrading. Dan should drop $30,000 on it next weekend.
Gosh darn it, the Apollo is the best audio purchase I have heard and owned in the last 2 years, price dependant. It really will shake Dan's system, and I mean at a core level.
Nuck- You introduced the 6 Moons article on the Zigmahornet in the Teckton thread. Did'nt that rate the Sony playstation 1 above many expensive CD players? It made me curious enough to snag one on ebay. When it gets here I'll put it up against my Arcam Alpha 9 and a little Cambridge Audio D300 and do a comparison. Anyone tried one of these? If these are as good as reported that would allow for money to be spent on another component.
Tried it, couldn't convince myself on this one and it's a pain to operate. PS has some nice qualities but still doesn't do it for me. Maybe I need different speakers.
This thing about the PS1 is my whole point. You can't get a truly shocking digital disc spinner. You can, however, get shocking amps and shocking speakers. That's why I see an excellent cd player in a mediocre system as being overkill. A good source is logical in a good system but not a mediocre one. I however get flamed by certain people for this real world viewpoint. If someone asks for advice I will give it, should I consider myself informed enough to do so. In my opinion a Rega Apollo would be overkill in Dan's (the original poster) system. For the money he is willing to outlay on the Rega his system could be much improved by getting new speakers instead. His next logical upgrade would then be the source. Jan knows better though...
In the process of building myself a well "balanced" system that I could finally sit back and enjoy every time it was turned it on , there was always overkill in one way or another between one component and the next as I was on a budget. Always one component I wanted to replace. The journey was as much fun as the destination in that respect.I do'nt see how the Rega can be a bad decision as it is a just another step in the right direction and it is just part of the journey, the learning experience.
Recently we had a NAD C542 cdp (which was very good for the money) with NAD pre&power and B&W 602 speakers. It all made fairly nice music. With all the raves about the Apollo I went and listened to it and the 542 side by side. I was actually a little dumbfounded. I didn't expect the difference. Timing was much improved, as was everything else (to cut it short). The difference to our music library was quite remarkable. A little while later I saw run out prices for the Quad L series loudspeakers and as I had had my eye on these for a while I went, I auditioned and I bought them. Another improvement for sure, but not more so than the cdp upgrade. Combined, yes our music is presented in a much more realistic and enjoyable manner. In fact my wife noticed more musical improvement with the cdp upgrade than she did with the speakers, Although allowance must be made for the fact that it took between 150 & 200 hrs of run them in.
The Apollo was a major upgrade, so too were the speakers, however they were more the icing on the cake. The normal retail value of the two main speakers was twice that of the Apollo. Both were well worth it imho. There you have it.
The PS1 doesn't prove or disprove anything. It has good and bad points. As do most pieces of audio gear or else they would not stay on the market. Therefore, let's not grab for the last life preserver being thrown. OK, AV?
What is it with you, AV? I thought I told you that parroting the same words without explanation is not helpful here. You accuse me of "knowing what's right" without apparently taking in to account the other half dozen or so voices in agreement with me. So, please, if you're really here to be helpful, be helpful; and not just stirring up trouble where it doen't need to exist.
On the pro CD player side, the case has been made for why a new player will most benefit Dan's system. Other than your blanket assessment that virtually all less than "high end (priced)" digital is "good", you've offered no reason for what is wrong with Dan's amp and speakers or why his system won't benefit from the advantages I spelled out in my reasoning. Do you deny any of the qualites I suggested would be acrued from the Rega won't exist at all? I'm not asking whether Dan will immediately be aware of all the virtues of the Apollo. Only whether you deny those qualities exist in the Rega. Answer, please.
Then convince us why the Elite receiver and DT speakers suck and maybe we'll change our minds. Otherwise your argument has no validity. Period! I've run very good to excellent systems into very inexpensive speakers and consistently had far better results that reversing the procedure. I've had $39/pair speakers on my system and had a friend who owns Linn leave the room wondering what the salesman did to him. Right now I listen through speakers that cost less then $100. The way I seee this, your argument is valid maybe 2% of the time. If you frequency response above all else, it can be considered valid. Those of us on the pro CD side believe Dan wants more than just frequency response or else he wouldn't have asked the question about CD players.
So convince Dan he's bought that 2%. You've stated plainly that, in your opinion, Dan's system is mediocre. I think all of us would like to know what is mediocre about it. What does Dan's system do or not do that you find so "mediocre"?
You've dodged and ignored this question numerous times. If you have a point to make, make it. Detail what's wrong with Dan's mediocre system and give him fixes. If you can't do that, please, stop being a parrot. This is getting quite tiring and I can't imagnie Dan is still reading your ideas.
You're on. Give it your best or stop all together.
AV, you are waya way off base. Most digital spinners are total undiluted crap. And when you go to DVD players, the percentage goes even higher. There's also a lot of high end priced players which sound good but musically boring (Sony SA-1 anyone?). Musically speaking, the PS1 was a disaster.
Now I don't know the DVD player in question. I do know the Rega Apollo. Musically, the Rega is cohesive, involving and engaging. None of these attributes can be gained at the speaker end unless they come out of the CD player end. Once the pace, rhythm and timing attributes are lost in the HiFi chain, they stay lost and these are the attributes which so many digital spinners lose.
I too have done the mullet vs source-first comparisons many a time using digital sources and source first wins every time.
You guys are extremists and mixing apples and oranges. When one is discussing a mediocre system, a change in speakers will make the most audibly noticeable difference. High end requires a different paradigm. There, a change in source can make a huge difference.
Then why don't you tell Dan what's wrong with his system, what isn't he hearing, what is he hearing and what will he be hearing with what speakers and amplifier. I'm tired of this recommending speakers and not giving any reason why other than you two say so.
Put up or shut up. The case has been made several times for the CD player.
Its gotta be the source, cdp in this case. I can put out a dozen cases of bigsmileitis from new sources, but we have to define average/mediocre more closely.Ain't my turn in line to try that one.
But we can agree on the room running a close second, yes?
Well, OK. A mediocre system is one that has been carefully detailed but fails to satisy. Or. A system of potential, which has not been realized.
See the medriocrity involes product, payer and room. Getting down on the sound means you may not have held up your end by conversing here, listening to all you can, and placing your speakers and treating your space a bit.
Or supplying a source that is appropriate to your expectations in the kit. The speakers are mechanical devices. The digital source offers a zillion more options, effective EQing one of them. Which could get around a flat spot in a speakers response curve.
I now have 4 sources to choose from, and every single one was way different for differing music. The speakers can sound completely different on 2 of them. One is the Apollo.
ok guys the Marantz is all hooked up. It sounds great. It is a big upgrade from the Integra dvd player. No need to change the amp or speakers. It is well worth the money. Thanks Dan
And if you don't, they'll remain clueless and making incorrect decisions always compounding their mistakes along the way. Sometimes, you've got to explain why you build systems in a particular way.
It's a remarkable and rather freaky fact that as Saturday help, I often find myself listening through my customers' ears. I hear what they're hearing, so on some occasions I'll get completely unexpected (for me!) results, finding a preference for a different product than usual for example. The next time I hear it on my own I wonder what I was thinking.
The level to which this happens depends a lot on the relationship I've established with the customer before or during the demo. I call it 'tuning in' to the customer and it is really rather weird.
Anyway to a certain extent, the phraseology used in threads can be used to make certain deductions about what people are hearing. It's not the same thing but that coupled with my experience appears to work. Most posters who try minor suggestions of mine seem to find my suggestions useful.
"Then why don't you tell Dan what's wrong with his system, what isn't he hearing" Jan Vigne
"Unlike you, I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what they are not hearing."
Unlike you, wiley, I had a pretty good idea what what Dan was not hearing. I notice you didn't offer any assistance, as usual, just a disagreement, as usual, with what should have been changed. If you can't help, stay away, your disagreements only muck up the thread. Just as there was no need to throw an insult my way two weeks after Dan had made his purchase (what's with that, wiley, they wouldn't give you a pass till now?), there's no need for you to be here at all. Just bow out as ungracefully as you've entered; how many times?
"Sometimes, you've got to explain why you build systems in a particular way."
"Well Frank, if you can listen through the ears of another, more power to you. You should market that talent."
Luckily for you it doesn't require talent to know how to put togteher a system. It's simply a matter of logically placing the building blocks one atop the other. If the foundation is weak, the entire system collapses; therefore you build a system from the foundation of the components outward. As Frank states, it's not like I haven't done this before. It's nothing more than logic, wiley, and listening (or in this case reading what is being posted) along with knowing what's there and not there in any system. Unfortunately for you, you still got it wrong. No logic, no luck, no reading skills. That pretty much describes your life; eh, wiley?
Frank I never asked anybody to revamp my system. I needed to know if it was worth spending money on a cd player. Also Frank you should hear how good this system sounds. Not everybody can spend 25k on a system. Thanks to the rest of you guys. Dan
"I notice you didn't offer any assistance,"Jan Vigne "When one is discussing a mediocre system, a change in speakers will make the most audibly noticeable difference."Dennis Michael Wiley
There Vigne goes again-off on a tangent. What a dunce.
I'm rubber. You're glue. What you say bounces off me and sticks to you. HaHa!
Are you like 12???
These discussions are supposed to be intelligent and informative for us all. These type of reponses only re-enforce my belief that you use your mediocre technical knowledge to prop up your lagging self-esteem.
Yeah you have an awesome stereo... but you are still a small sad mean little man huddled in a basement somewhere in Texas spewing venom.
Dude get outta yur hole and quit acting like a d1ck
It is as obvious as the prothstetic p e n i s tucked into his overalls. The guys self-esteem has been trampelled thru years of rejection by the only mammal he has been able to get within 10 feet of... Goats!
Surprised we have not heard from him yet! But I suppose he is busy crafting his response!
I predict that when we finally hear from him, his post is gonna be a long and convoluted rant. Every line he writes, adds tiny puff of air into his plastic member.
All I know is I really pay attention to what JV has to say when it comes to straight know-how and knowledge. Nobody has the experience JV does. I'm with Nuck.
a set of MartinLogan speakers will have an excellent presentation through a Panasonic digital amp and Onkyo CD player???
You try it first, and then tell me what results you get."
Well Gavin, I never said that. I was talking in the context of a BUDGET system, it's better to spend the lions' share on the speakers. In my opinion. Concerning your example though, a crappy cdp and amp played through great speakers WILL sound better than a great cdp played through a crappy amp and crappy speakers. Now we're all supposedly into hifi here so I would not suggest for a moment that having a crap source is the way to go. It isn't and I don't run one myself. I would rather have the nice speakers and then upgrade my source when funds allow than the other way 'round. That way whilst I'm saving the beans for my nice source I get to listen to a better sounding system. As ever YMMV.
There seems to be an awful lot of vitriol in this thread. We all have our opinions, sometimes wrong and sometimes right. We have different tastes, different hifi systems and different budgets. I've been guilty of letting others get me riled and I apologise for that. I also apologise if I have ruffled any feathers. It would be nice if we can all shake hands and call this thread quits because I really don't think it's going anywhere positive.
If you really knew Wiley and his posts, you'd understand Jan's vitriol and ours. If you want the same insanity tag then just be his mate. You'll be the only one in his poor wretched life.
Sun King, Adam, AV, you garnered a lot of respect here over the years, you can't win 'em all. My hand . . .
JS, Wiley has been booted from this forum before, under various monikers. For the same reasons, just personal attacks on JV and anyone who agrees with JV.
Jan will, and has, answered the most technical of questions with answers that are understandable on most levels, then follow his links to more in depth, long haired stuff.
It's hard to dismiss 40+ years of audio sales, repair, research and tinkering just because of a few cold prickly's.
Well John, isn't it nice of his worshippers to change the subject. You talk about idolatry. There would be nothing Vigne could say with which these guys would disagree. Nuck et al may as well be Vigne juniors. They have no independent judgment. Pathetic.
wiley, here's something we all agree on; GO AWAY - FOREVER! No idolatry involved. We all dislike you with deep felt intensity. You've even insulted Frank. No one has insulted Frank except you. What an honor. Just leave and don't come back. Mosquitoes and ringworms have more purpose in life than you do, wiley.
What'd I say? I didn't suggest spending huge amounts of money on a CD player. I just defended your choice to address the source rather than speakers. Sorry if I misled you!
Just a note to say the Playstation 1 has arrived and I must say its pretty impressive for under $25.00. I'm listening in my basement system which is a CGV-300B tube amp and a custom made 6SL7 pre going through Dave Merrill DCA5.5 drivers in custom cabinets and it sounds very good.
