Problems with system, not sure where at exactly.
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 22 Registered: Apr-07 | Hey guys, it's me again. A while ago I decided to upgrade my system some. I switched out the old Technics for an Emotiva BPA-1 and I'm using that with a Pioneer VSX-816K. Here's the issue though. Recently I've started to have some problems with channels dropping out or being filled with static. I'm having a hard time tracking it down to a specific component. I cleaned the potentiometer on the Pioneer as suggested be some however the problem persists. So here's the thing, I'm not sure if it's the receiver, the interconnects, or even possibly the amp. Sometimes simply increasing the volume on the Pio will solve the issue. Tonight it didn't though so I started playing with my cables. I found that pushing the cable in on the interconnect while hooked to the receiver solved the issue, whether it was coincedence or not I'm not sure. The cables I'm using are Monster Interlink 250 (was the only thing I could get on short notice). What are the odds the preouts on my receiver are biting the dust, or that the cable's bad, etc? I really would hate to have to send it out for servicing (especially if it's not causing the issue), but I'm at a loss of what to do. I don't have spare components to test with anymore. Any advice on how I should go about troubleshooting? It's happening on and off so it's a pain trying to catch it. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 189 Registered: Feb-07 | Have you tried swapping out the cables? For example, if the right front channel is dropping out, switch the right/left front cables. If the left then starts dropping out then you know it's the cable. Know what I mean? If that doesn't work, then try bypassing your Emotiva and run your speakers off the receiver and see if that fixes it. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 23 Registered: Apr-07 | Well this is cute, I got an exchange on the Monster Cables and went to put them on my amp. They were being stubborn and not going on so I decided to remove them . . . they pulled the RCA jack straight off. Needless to say, I'm not amused -_-' |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10822 Registered: May-04 | . Cheapass amp. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 24 Registered: Apr-07 | "Cheapass amp." I think the cable refusing to let go is more at fault. Regardless I'm going to try and get an RMA on the amp, but this time I definately won't be using Monster. Any suggestions on cables that . . . you know, disconnect nicely? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10825 Registered: May-04 | . "I think the cable refusing to let go is more at fault." Nope, the cable was doing what it was designed to do; making good, tight contact with the jack. The receiver has cheap, crappy RCA jacks that are press fit onto a piece of cardboard and held in place with a few tiny metal tabs bent into the cardboard. If they were individual RCA's screwed onto the metal chassis like better components use, they would not have pulled loose. This sort of cardboard on the inside construction is common in cheapass receivers. You get what you pay for. Buy some cheapass cables to go with this receiver, they don't hold onto anything. . |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 25 Registered: Apr-07 | I'll refrain from being a complete smartass and jerk, something you seem to have trouble doing. What pricepoint would said components start at? A grand? More? Obviously, we have different definitions of "cheap". Nice to know you have such a wonderful income to cover such luxuries. Since I'm heading to college and have access to little excess funds, I don't. As for someone "getting what they pay for", it's an equally foolish sentiment that should have died by now. There's NEVER a guaruntee someone is getting their money's worth. Cars would be a good example to look at how wrong this thought process is, and leads to the conclusion the saying is based on a logical fallacy. Something in the lines of "I paid, and therefore it is" psuedo philisophical crap. Also, I highly doubt that the RCA plug should of had a hard time actually even getting ON the RCA connector. It would be something if it went on snug and pulled off snug, but that just wasn't the case. Three of the connectors were that way, relatively snug on and snug off. This one must of had an issue in manufacturing, though that's just my opinion. Regardless, the damage's been done. "Good day sir!" PS: By the way the receiver didn't break, it was the amp. If you're going to insult my components, at least try to remember which one you're insulting  |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10827 Registered: May-04 | . Believe what you want to believe. I speak the truth. Take the cover off your amp and look for yourself. If the RCA is bolted on with an exposed nut on the back of the chassis, the way it's supposed to be done, it cannot pull through the hole in the chassis. Your RCA's are connected to a cardboard strip with tabs holding them in place, so they easily pull loose when pressure is applied to them. That more didn't is surprising. Your amp isn't the only one that builds like this, most mass market companies do the same. Most big box stores won't tell you not to use Monster or other cables with tight fitting RCA's because; 1) they're too dumb to know, 2) if they've been there long enough to find this out, they'll be gone soon, 3) they are under pressure from the bean counters to sell these cables. As to what price range you have to be in to get good construction, look for yourself. It's pretty easy to see a nut on the back of the chassis holding the individual RCA's in place. If you don't see the nut, it's probably cheapass construction. Your amp probably has two or four rivets that hold the cardboard strip in place and the RCA's are attached to that strip. I didn't insult you, sir, I insulted your amp/receiver. Don't take this so personally. "As for someone "getting what they pay for", it's an equally foolish sentiment that should have died by now." Buy a Honda, don't be a fool. "PS: By the way the receiver didn't break, it was the amp. If you're going to insult my components, at least try to remember which one you're insulting" You said you were using a receiver. I believe a "vsx" is a receiver. If not, I'm still correct, cheapass amp. " ... the RCA plug should of had a hard time ... " If you're headed to college, you might want to figure out good grammar. Good day. . |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 40 Registered: Jul-07 | "I'll refrain from being a complete smartass and jerk, something you seem to have trouble doing." Drew Kropf Drew, excellent rejoinder. I appreciate a poster who calls it exactly like it is. You're not the only one who tires of Vigne's insulting antics. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 26 Registered: Apr-07 | "Believe what you want to believe. I speak the truth. Take the cover off your amp and look for yourself. If the RCA is bolted on with an exposed nut on the back of the chassis, the way it's supposed to be done, it cannot pull through the hole in the chassis. Your RCA's are connected to a cardboard strip with tabs holding them in place, so they easily pull loose when pressure is applied to them. That more didn't is surprising. Your amp isn't the only one that builds like this, most mass market companies do the same. Most big box stores won't tell you not to use Monster or other cables with tight fitting RCA's because; 1) they're too dumb to know, 2) if they've been there long enough to find this out, they'll be gone soon, 3) they are under pressure from the bean counters to sell these cables." I'll try and say this again since I've had some sleep. I did not have an issue with three of the four plugs going onto the connectors of my amp and receiver. One however refused to go on. It maybe went a whole 3mm and stopped. When I went to remove it, it was almost impossible to do so. As for whether the construction is that cheap, I believe the answer is that most cables should NOT have an issue like this so it's largely irrelevant. "I didn't insult you, sir, I insulted your amp/receiver. Don't take this so personally." Actually, by the insult you inherently did. Cheapass amp/receiver means that, quite frankly only a cheapass would buy them. At least, that would be the implication. "You said you were using a receiver. I believe a "vsx" is a receiver. If not, I'm still correct, cheapass amp." I'm using the VSX as a preamp, and using an Emotiva as the actual amplifier. "If you're headed to college, you might want to figure out good grammar." What, I mess up one sentence at roughly 1:00AM after pulling an all nighter just yesterday and I no longer have knowledge of how to speak or use grammar well? Give me a flipping break. |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 43 Registered: Jul-07 | Drew, don't let Vigne get to you. Remember: he is a revolving idiot-no matter how you turn him he comes up idiot. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10828 Registered: May-04 | . Awwww, isn't that cute? wiley's latest personality has found a little play mate. Too bad he'll hate you just as much as we all do in a short while. Hey, have you asked jbj about that distortion thing? How's your other personality doing on that question? "At least, that would be the implication." Good Lord, what is your problem? You bought something that didn't cost very much. You want an apology? OK, I'm sorry you bought something that didn't cost very much. You'll hopefully learn to know what's cheapass and what isn't. Blame whoever you want but if the RCA was installed correctly it could not be pulled loose from the chassis. What's your problem with understanding that? . |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 27 Registered: Apr-07 | "Good Lord, what is your problem? You bought something that didn't cost very much. You want an apology? OK, I'm sorry you bought something that didn't cost very much. You'll hopefully learn to know what's cheapass and what isn't. Blame whoever you want but if the RCA was installed correctly it could not be pulled loose from the chassis. What's your problem with understanding that?" Wait, how much are you now ASSUMING it cost? You know what Jan, I'm sorry. Sorry that your parents must've slapped you around too much as a child. Christ only knows why you've ended so messed up that you insist on attacking people and their gear. Like an infected hair on the butt of the community, you're best being removed IMO. All you have offered so far are insults, which currently would have been better off not being said. Heaven forbid you pass up a chance to boast your already bloated ego though. Jesus Christ. I only wish this forum had a proper ignore feature, because quite frankly your opinion isn't wanted anymore. |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 44 Registered: Jul-07 | Amen. You said it, Drew. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 196 Registered: Jul-06 | Monster cables, as any well-made cable should, fit very snugly in place. I hate to break it to Drew, but if the cable yanked the RCA jack from his receiver, the receiver is the weak link. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10829 Registered: May-04 | . Drew, take a pill, guy. I haven't even started to insult your car yet. Geeeez! |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 28 Registered: Apr-07 | Rush, let me just make this clear: I had a set of the same cables and had them exchanged. They fit snugly as said, but like any cable could be pulled off with just enough force. Three of the four connections on the exchange worked GREAT, good snug fit that required a good amount of pressure to be put on and off. However, the fourth one would not even go ON the amp RCA more than 3mm (yes, I measured). It was then near impossible to remove which lead to the eventual disconnect of the RCA. Also, as said it was NOT the receiver that broke but the external amp I had hooked up to it. Oh, and when I removed the RCA jack from the cable one of the little cut pieces on the outerjacket broke. I dare you to not tell me that it's just a little to freakin tight. To give you an idea, it would have acted as if someone cripped the cable ONTO the RCA plug. Sure if the RCA jack had a screw I could have pulled like a 900 lbs. gorrilla and probably get it off. On the same note, I shouldn't have to. Which, regarding I just got a call back from Emotiva. They're shipping me a new amp as I type which I should probably get this or next week. They are also paying for the return shipping. For a builder of "cheapass" products their support is wonderful. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 198 Registered: Jul-06 | I'm sure that 7.8lb power amplifier is made from the highest quality components. Every component has it's proper place in the market, but please don't try to make it into something it is not. I'm happy for you that they're replacing the product. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 29 Registered: Apr-07 | "I'm sure that 7.8lb power amplifier is made from the highest quality components. Every component has it's proper place in the market, but please don't try to make it into something it is not. I'm happy for you that they're replacing the product." 75W of actual power at 4ohms, I'd say they're using excellent components compared to, say Parasound's Zamp line at $300+. Heck, I've opened a Parasound amp and found that it used the same mounting style plus a little super glue. Tell me though, how am I making it out something it's not? I never said it was the latest and greatest, but at the same time there's products that fall much lower on the scale. Just because it isn't a flipping $800+ amp doesn't make it bad. That's like saying every car is crap if it doesn't cost $50,000 and X amount of horsepower and X material used here and here with X sound system. Also, Mr. Pot meet Mr. Kettle. Don't make the monster cable out to be great and innocent when it's obvious it was having issues (seriously, it SNAPPED while removing the RCA jack. That should be enough to say there was problems with it). (PS rush: Weight isn't the only thing to look at with amps. It's using components that would probably fit in a rackmount and, as we've learned with the T-Amp architecture matters.) |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1423 Registered: Nov-05 | I had a similar experience with Monster interconnects, while one pair connected well enough to the NAD CDP I had at the time, one of the plugs at the pre amp end took enormous pressure to get on - it broke off one of the teeth on the split outer gold plated tube section of the plug. Getting it off was just as difficult. But the RCA plug on the pre amp held firm. I'd say it was bad QC from Monster - not that I'd expect more from them. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7963 Registered: Dec-04 | Drew, is it possible that the Monster cables were/are a twist lock type? I just re-read the whole thread. I didn't realize that the Emotiva amp was chip based. Therefore, the mass of the thing matters not a whit. Were it analog, then it would fail my primary test, the mass of the torroidal power supply. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 30 Registered: Apr-07 | Nuck, I don't believe so: http://www.amazon.com/MONSTER-CABLE-INT250-2M-Interlink/dp/B0000705CZ Has a large image of them. I believe you're referring to the type that locks down to hold the connector on, which these are most definately not. As for the use of a torodial transformer it does use one. I was just making a point that weight isn't the only diserning factor anymore. Besides, what's not to say X company doesn't use more material on the chasis? It's a good layman's test but without actually opening it up . . . Regardless, if you question the quality they put into their transformers, Audioholics has reviewed plenty of Emotiva amps and shown that their quality is rather good if not excellent in specific areas. Users at AV123 are happy with their products (except the LMC-1 needs some updates). Same with AVS. They have built up a rather good reputation fast when it comes to their products and service. I think that's the most important thing for a company, period. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7965 Registered: Dec-04 | But it ain't the measure of an analog amp. No weight, no power reserves, just caps and long recovery times to the square wave form. I ain't here to diss the amp, just checking the cables. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 33 Registered: Apr-07 | "But it ain't the measure of an analog amp. No weight, no power reserves, just caps and long recovery times to the square wave form." Educate me, I want to know what it is you're referencing if you don't mind.  |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10838 Registered: May-04 | . Drew - You seem to be ignoring the lessons to be learned from the T-amps. Parts quality counts when it comes to sound quality. If it didn't, you could have bought a Sonic Impact for $39. The T-amp manufacturers who use better parts are getting better sound. That doesn't mean Audioholics, who believe only in specs, might not think your amp is "excellent" is several areas - hell, its the same chip as others - but when it comes to parts quality, bolted on RCA's (WBT's usually) are the norm for the top T-amp designs. Now, if they scrimped on the jacks, what other corners did they cut? If you don't want to know, that's fine by me. If you can't hear the difference, then you maybe should have spent $39. The little T-amp is still impressive even with plastic clip on speaker connectors. Because of the plastic clip on connectors actually! You seem to think we're attacking you, Drew. This is meant to be an education. Take it for what it is. . |
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Bronze Member Username: ShikeNewton, Iowa USA Post Number: 34 Registered: Apr-07 | "Drew - You seem to be ignoring the lessons to be learned from the T-amps. Parts quality counts when it comes to sound quality. If it didn't, you could have bought a Sonic Impact for $39. The T-amp manufacturers who use better parts are getting better sound. That doesn't mean Audioholics, who believe only in specs, might not think your amp is "excellent" is several areas - hell, its the same chip as others - but when it comes to parts quality, bolted on RCA's (WBT's usually) are the norm for the top T-amp designs. Now, if they scrimped on the jacks, what other corners did they cut? If you don't want to know, that's fine by me. If you can't hear the difference, then you maybe should have spent $39. The little T-amp is still impressive even with plastic clip on speaker connectors. Because of the plastic clip on connectors actually!" Well first, let me say that it's not a T based amp. I posted that a couple ways back saying there's more to things than just weight. For example, when working on computers these past eight years I've seen the heaviest duty PC PSUs, ones that were heavy and built like a tank have such pitiful efficiency because even though they built them heavy, their design was a flop. The general rule of thumb used to be "go buy the heaviest one you can". Now it's "go buy the heaviest from brand X,Y,and Z, but avoid A and B". That is why I'm warry when people suggest judging solely based on weight. "You seem to think we're attacking you, Drew. This is meant to be an education. Take it for what it is." Well, the use of the word "cheapass" when I put all the money I really could afford in the amp to upgrade really didn't rub me right. Other stuff's been "hitting the fan" too and I'm more concerned about getting my system working than anything else before I get busy enough that I can't handle it. Yes, I understand screw RCAs would be a better choice. Seriously though Jan, should there be a problem inserting a cable more than 3mm on a jack? And isn't a bit of compromise acceptable at $200? I mean, I've been in a Parasound amp and from what I remember they did the same thing . . . or was it the capacitors they hot glued on? Still, when I opened it (the Parasound) the parts were good but the construction was EXTREMELY so-so. As for the tugging on me about the $39 T-Amp, trust me, I would have bought a T-Amp had my speakers been efficient enough. Probably the Trends Audio one. Quite frankly, I love the sound of what I had. A lot. I would love to learn more about it altogether. That's why I was interested in Nuck addressing what I'm guessing he saw as shortcomings. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10842 Registered: May-04 | . "That is why I'm warry when people suggest judging solely based on weight." Point to where anyone suggested that. No one here has told you the sound quality you have is not the best you feel you can afford. We all start with less than McIntosh. My first receiver was a Slyvania solid state unit. But your logic is not clear. If the Parasound is not well built, it will affect the sound quality and the reliability of the product. The world is littered with amps that met the owner's needs at one point and weren't worth fixing when they eventually broke. The cheaper the construction - Parasound is still a budget item - the less reliable the product. Now, let's just suppose it was the RCA jack that had the problem and it caused the Monster plug to not fit correctly. If the jack collapses under pressure because it's mounted on a cardboard strip or the jack is misaligned on the strip, the plug is not to blame. This isn't saying the Monster might not have had problems but I've seen the case I suggest above cause the plug to not fit properly. . |
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