The Agony of Roksan Caspian
|
New member Username: VictimPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-07 | Hello people I am new to this forum, and i would like get the opinion of you guys perhaps you can advise me of what to do, recently i purchased a brand new, Roksan Caspian pre amp and 2x monoblocks, together with monitor audio RS6, the system has never functioned peoperly despite all the great reviews and awards in the audio magazines, shortly after i purchased the system i noticed that monoblocks keeps on tripping meaning it goes to protection mode, it won't work again untill the power is swtiched off and then back on. untill one of the amps started producing a very audiable noise, anyways after so many attempts and phone calls both to Roksan Audio and the "authorized distributer" they decided that the mono amp is defective and they will replace the pcb's in both monoblocks. It took about 6 weeks to replace the pcb's but when i got them back they were still tripping i.e going to protection mode, so I contacted the distributer right away and he said not to worry it could be a bad CD, try another cd and if the problem persist, swap the amps and see what happens? so i listened to his advice and the problem stayed when i played another CD and even when i swapped the amps. The next day i sat down and played the 1812 overture and all of a sudden i smell something burning, so i jumped and turned everything off. I thought the amps are gone again, but the smell was coming of the speaker, after a while i turned it on and the whole thing sounded different but for sure there is no terebel in the affected speaker. At this moment I am not sure what is going on, I would like to invite those who are interested or those who are knowledgable to participate and give me some advise of what to do I look forward to your participation. Regards |
|
Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 132 Registered: Jan-07 | Take the whole thing back where you got it. Let them figure it out. Defective speaker(s)? Burned x-over and driver? Defective amp(s)? |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7829 Registered: Dec-04 | M, replace the twisted wire speaker leads with some cheap rip cord. This will possibly cure the shutdown, but not the smoke. You have my sympaties, audio friend. Good luck! |
|
New member Username: VictimPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-07 | Thanx for your reply, when the speaker burnt I contacted the "authorised distributer" whome i bought the system of, he immediately said that you played the system too loud and this is what busted the tweeter, he actually said that without even looking or listening to the system. So I phoned up Roksan and spoke to the tech director who said he cant tell what is wrong witht the system unless he physically checks it( i think it is a fair comment)and he also said that he has nothing to do with it and I must go through the dealer and if I am not satisfied I can pursue him through the court. after many attempts he said he will speak to the dealer and he will get in touch with me, few days passed and no word from roksan audio, so i phoned up few times and sure he was busy in meetings and finally he phoned up and said he spoke to the dealer and when i call him now he will do something. So i phoned up the dealer who said he will order a new tweeter to replacce the defective one. My question is the Tech Director of Roksan said he cant tell what is wrong with the system unless he physically checks it but how can his "authorized distributer" can remotly and over the phone affirms that it is just the tweeter, shall i call this a double standard of roksan audio or what?? the amplifiers even after they replaced their pcb's kept on tripping and even before the speaker is damaged. so does replacing the tweeter solve the problem that is assuming the dealer will really replace the tweeter, plus how could the authorised dealer know that the amps are not defective??? I am quite confused here |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10775 Registered: May-04 | . Your last post is rather confusing to me. However, ... The dealer cannot tell whether the amplifier is defective without further examination of the amplifier and neither can Roksan. Unless this is a recurring problem with the Roksan product. I assume it is not. What you can do is disconnect the speakers and speaker cables from the amplifiers and let them sit without a load or an incoming signal. If the amplifiers shut down in this situation, it is either defective or you need to provide better set up for the amplifier in the way of ventilation. Any further testing should be done by Roksan or their authorized servicer in order to not void the warranty. " ... The next day i sat down and played the 1812 overture and all of a sudden i smell something burning ... " " ... he immediately said that you played the system too loud and this is what busted the tweeter, he actually said that without even looking or listening to the system." I have to say I never auditioned a system for any client who wanted to hear the 1812 at a low level. The idea of playing the 1812 is often to test whether the system "can take it". If you controlled the volume during your audition at the dealer's showroom, possibly he can guess how loudly you were playing the system when things went awry. How loudly were you playing the Overture? The point is not what the dealer guesses. The point is how you used the system. Sorry. If you broke it, it's your fault. " ... he also said that he has nothing to do with it and I must go through the dealer and if I am not satisfied I can pursue him through the court." How did we get to "court" so soon? And the tech director at Roksan gave you this advice on his own? Really? "So i phoned up the dealer who said he will order a new tweeter to replacce the defective one." The dealer can't know whether just the tweeter is dead or a crossover component has burnt without checking the speaker. Replacing a tweeter when the crossover has been damaged will only complicate the matter. Call the dealer to tell them you are bringing the speakers in so they can examine the damage. Be nice. Pissingoff the dealer at this point is counterproductive. The dealer is merely in the middle of this whole affair. Your beef should be with Roksan and the dealer should be your advocate who works on your side and for your benefit. If you've made the dealer mad, you've lost the battle. They will spit in your eggs. Bottom line; don't threaten the dealer with court action. "My question is the Tech Director of Roksan said he cant tell what is wrong with the system unless he physically checks it but how can his "authorized distributer" can remotly and over the phone affirms that it is just the tweeter, shall i call this a double standard of roksan audio or what??" No, you can calm down and change your username. I suspect this is how you've dealt with the dealer so far, as a victim, and you'll loose more if you continue on this path. You've not provided enough information for us to know the situation in full. If the dealer started out on your side, you should try to win them back to act on your behalf. The dealer didn't design or build the amplifier. They bought it from who they thought was a reputable company, just as you did. These sorts of problems are just as disturbing to the dealer as they are to the client. If you bought brand new in the box amplifiers, the dealer had no way of knowing the units were defective(?) or getting Roksan to respond more quickly when you sent the amplifiers back. Your complaint is with Roksan. Legal action is seldom as effective in these cases as writing letters to the major magazines to inform them of the service, good or bad, your receive from a manufacturer. No one cares whether a single dealer is not living up to their promise of customer satisfaction. Major manufacturers do not want bad press in major magazines. Back off the dealer and get them to work for you. "I am quite confused here" You are confused because you want to be confused. From where I sit, you've PO'd the dealer to the point they are no longer doing anything other than trying to get you out of their hair. Give Roksan one more chance to fix the amplifiers (it is very unusual for two amplifiers to have the same problem - twice - realize this) and get the dealer to work with you not against you. Get authorization to send the amplifiers back to Roksan and get a reasonably specific time period for their return to the dealer's showroom. The dealer should have the amplifiers hooked up and running when you come to pick them up. If Roksan cannot repair the amplifiers within a reasonable time frame, they should provide you with new amplifiers assuming this was a recent purchase and not something that happened a year after the purchase. Work with the dealer and you'll all come out for the better. Laugh at the situation, for god's sake, it's just hifi. . |
|
Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 494 Registered: May-06 | I'm thinking short in the speaker wire... Try Jan's suggestion, disconnect the speaker wires from the amps and see if they shut down. If they don't move back up the post to Nuck's suggestion and get HD or Wal-Mart extension cord and splice it into speaker wires. More on that if you require. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7831 Registered: Dec-04 | Excellent post, Jan. M, welcome to real hi-fi. And Mercedes. More flies to be had with honey than pissandvinegar. You are dealing with proffesionals, yes? If not, then you bought from the wrong people. Roksan do not pump out amps like Chevy does Cobalts. You are part of a rather different group, one that expects(and pays for) quality, both in the product, and the support that such an investment deserves. Like Levinson, Classe and so on. (OK not Classe, but I get in there,) Now don't start being a prik, cause the replacement that you want is still being built. Welcome to the high-end, brother. Other than that, replace the speaker leads with cheap rip cord. Your speaker runs (Kimber twisted pairs?) are shunting the amp with capacitance.Or inductance. Or scotch. Replace the speaker runs, man. |
|
New member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 6 Registered: Aug-06 | Hey....what's wrong with Cobalts? I happen to like mine very much! |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7845 Registered: Dec-04 | Thaaaaanks, Marc. It was an example, nothing more. Marc, you gotta be shecking out the BBQ championship there in Barrie this weekend. My sis and her hub are on a team cooking up there this weekend. They were on the Canadian Champ team last 2 years, and went to the Jack Daniels worlds at the estate in Lynchberg twice. Pork, man, pork. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7846 Registered: Dec-04 | Sorry for the sidebar, folks. But it IS ribs and puled pork. World class stuff. Gawd I am hungry. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10779 Registered: May-04 | . Pulled pork?! I thought you said it was Bar-B-Q. Where's the dead cattle? |
|
New member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 7 Registered: Aug-06 | Yes...that pork, of which you speak, does sound delicious, maybe I'll make my way downtown and let my sense of smell guide me there. Thanks. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7853 Registered: Dec-04 | Look for the team 'smokin in the igloo'. Tell them that Jamie sent you. |
|
Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 308 Registered: Dec-06 | All pork no cattle. Sounds familiar. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7859 Registered: Dec-04 | Well, I will eat my hat... |
|
New member Username: WattsssupBarrie, ON Canada Post Number: 8 Registered: Aug-06 | Well I am back from the famous (okay, maybe famous is too strong a word) Barrie BBQ at the lakeshore. Man, I think there must of been over 100 different groups BBQ'ewin somethin or other. As I made my way through this highway to heaven sampling various BBQ sauces, some VERY hot, I did come accross the smokin in the igloo tent at the very end. I asked if they were selling food, and one of the guys running that tent kindly pointed me in another direction to where I managed to score some very nice ribs. Unfortunatly Nuck, I didn't get your message of telling them that you sent me there until I got back, as I am sure had I told them that, they would have fed me, and fed me well. Anyway, that's my story. |
|
Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 322 Registered: Dec-06 | Hey Bolkini.....progress? You get that dealer working for you? |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2261 Registered: Sep-04 | I'm no fan of Roksan Audio, but it seems to me that the tech director gave the correct advice here, and that Roksan has acted well in fixing the monoblocks with no evidence of faulty manufacture. Roksan is meant to deal through the distributor chain; if the customer gets no recourse from the dealer (with whom he has a contract as purchaser), and he gets nowhere with the situation, then he takes the dealership to court for redress. Sounds reasonable to me. However, there's many a step to take before getting that far!! For one thing, we don't know whether the system has been wired up correctly. Anyone can make a mistake. The fact is that the 2nd set of monoblocks are acting exactly the same as the first set. The chances of the 2nd set having the same fault as the first from a relatively small manufacturer are very slim. Therefore, in my view, the problem is more likely to lie elsewhere. The nature of the problem indicates a short circuit to me. Now it could be that the speakers are shorting out indicating a fault in both speakers, or it could be a problem with the speaker wire, perhaps there is a short circuit there. Or...you have wired up the speakers incorrectly with the biwire plates in place and shorted the speaker cable across the biwire plates (common mistake). This would also cause the problem and neither product is actually defective. Regards, Frank. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10808 Registered: May-04 | . Or, he's using the 1812 as a test to see if the amp will blow up. Lucky him, the test was successful! |
|
Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 26 Registered: Jul-07 | Why does Vigne need 12 inches of space to post one half inch of useless info? |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10811 Registered: May-04 | . Useless to you, who knows nothing. Gee, your's takes up the same space without giving any satisfaction. Why the name change, wiley? What have you done with jbj? |
|
Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1086 Registered: May-05 | Did somebody say "lawsuit"? LOL |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10902 Registered: May-04 | . Repair tech chaser! |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8046 Registered: Dec-04 | hehehe |
|
Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 144 Registered: Jan-07 | Jan, Try the Telarc CD of 'Wellingtons Victory' for a REAL speaker/amp/ear workout. The initial blast (real 12 pounder fieldpiece) will launch a substandard woof cone across the room. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8054 Registered: Dec-04 | If I had a 12 pounder woofcone to spare, Leo, it would be on youtoob shortly. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10904 Registered: May-04 | . "The initial blast (real 12 pounder fieldpiece) will launch a substandard woof cone across the room." Geeeee, that sounds like fun! LS, I used the Telarc 1812 (real cannons) and Firebird Suite (reeeeeealy big drum) so many times as demo material that I just am not impressed any longer. Quite honestly, once you hear them through a 600 watt McIntosh power amp connected to four Klipschorns, there's not much thrill left in life. (Remarkably, to pin your pants legs to your shins with that demo requires about 20 watts peak with the Horns. LotsO'Headroom!) . |
|
Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 146 Registered: Jan-07 | Never heard 'em thru that kind of system.... but the look on my friends face when the initial cannon shots 'hit' was absolutely priceless....he went completely PALE as he heard his woofers bottom out and ring.....I can't describe the sound. Mediocre stereo with not enough power for the Imitation JBL 4311's............. But BOY, what a sound..... |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10905 Registered: May-04 | . Imitation 4311's? Why bother? |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8058 Registered: Dec-04 | 'bottom out and ring' a 'friends' stereo. With friends like Leo... |
|
Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 148 Registered: Jan-07 | Hey, I bought the beer! when you're 18, got your 1st job, 1st car and are renting your 1st real house, this is the 1st stereo, too! you buy a Kenwood integrated of 40/side, a cassette deck.....CD is still a few years in the future, and some kind of TT with a Shure M91 cart. I bought 'improved' 4311 copies with dome tweeters. Later, by the time Telarc CD's had come along, I got the original 14bit Magnavox, my buddy a 1st or 2nd gen Yamahaha and we were busy making cassettes for the cars from the CD players! I gave away a bunch of cassettes and may be responsible for an early blip in CD player sales....the Cassettes were terrific and virtually everyone to whom I gave a cassette had a CD player within a few weeks. I later bought the cube and converted my integrated amp to a pre-only with some wire and a soldering iron......found the pre to main jumper and did a little rewire job. At that point I also found the maggies which I still have.....thou they have been to Minnisota for rebuild. 'Did the best we could, never looked back, had a load of fun and convinced the neighbors we were deaf! What more could you want? |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1990 Registered: May-05 | I just hope Andre doesn't stumble onto this thread. On another note, where can I find the Telarc 1812? Is that the title, or a track? I keep hearing about it, and think I'll pick up a copy to see or hear what its all about. Is my ignorance to Classical music showing? |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8063 Registered: Dec-04 | Unkooth swine! |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10914 Registered: May-04 | . http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?ei=UTF-8&p=telarc+1812+overture Probably a little known fact here. This was a popular demonstration LP way back when (1978-79). For several reasons. The first of course, is the torture the disc exhibits on all parts of the system. It's obvious what real cannon fire can do to your amp and speakers but the disc was much more popular when used to prove the worth of a table/arm/cartridge combination. Due to the extreme modulation of the groove when the cannons fire, which occurs at the end of the side where the groove velocity is at its highest, and the geometry of a pivoted arm at its worst, the stylus must momentarily track backwards at the leading edge of the cannon's fire's attack. This happens while music is playing full tilt behind the cannons. Reviewers went nuts suggesting various combinations were worthy or not based on the ability of the stylus to stay in the groove for this fifteen second burst of energy that cannot be duplicated on any other disc save a few intentionally difficult test pressings. This was also at a time when Apogee Scintillas went to 1 Ohm with a highly capacitive load which, naturally, destroyed many amplifiers that even thought about trying their hand at driving the large panels. If your amp couldn't drive the Scintillas at approximately 82dB sensitivity to full volume while playing the 1812 Overture, your amp lost the war. I tell ya, selling hifi back then was fun. . |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8066 Registered: Dec-04 | Replacing hi-fi, not so much. |
|
Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 151 Registered: Jan-07 | Jan, ever hear of some vinyl billed as 'FFRR'.....? This stood for Full Frequency Range Recording and claimed (under a microscope) to have visible 20hz grooves. The Album was of Louis Armstrong on one of his European tours, if that helps. The recording was indeed good and clear but due to the equipment used, I am unable to verify the frequency response claims. The TT? An original Zenith '2g'! That being said, nothing musical could possibly match the risetime and amplitude of a cannon. One question, however. You say 'at the end of a side where groove velocity is highest'..... Could you explain this? The inner grooves have the lowest linear velocity since the rpm of the disk, unlike CD, is constant. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10921 Registered: May-04 | . Awwwww, Leo, you make me remember stuff I haven't talked about in years! OK, yes, the linear velocity of an LP disc is at a constant "speed", 33.333 R.P.M. But the groove modulation velocity is in inverse proportion to the dimension of the disc at the stylus tip which would refer to the linear velocity of the groove. http://www.aardvarkmastering.com/long7.htm http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/iandm/part12/page2.html "Hence the frequency of a recorded signal variation is inversely proportional to its length along the groove." As the inches per second decrease, the groove modulation velocity must increase to maintain a constant linear velocity (I think that's worded correctly) or the playback would suffer frequency and time errors. "A further limitation of the record is that with a constant rotational speed, the quality of the sound may differ across the width of the record because the inner groove modulations are more compressed than those of the outer tracks. The result is that inner tracks have distortion that can be noticeable at higher recording levels." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramophone_record But here's where I cannot remember exactly how the transition takes place between constant velocity and constant amplitude. The problem being that a magnetic phono cartridge's stylus is responding to the 45/45 groove's varying i.p.s. "speed", varying frequency and it's varying amplitude. The variable pitch of the groove on a modern stereo LP makes things more difficult to follow and changes the mathematics for the varying frequency/amplitude in relation to the stylus position on the disc and the linear velocity of the groove. Think of one issue as how fast the stylus must respond to a mono 10kHz modulation at a constant velocity and amplitude. If the linear velocity is greater at the outer portion of the disc, then the groove modulation velocity must increase to maintain the same 10kHz response as the linear velocity drops at the inner groove. This would be fairly simple if the groove were cut at a constant pitch (and in mono) as it had been with 78's. In order to increase the playing time on each side, variable pitch was introduced to LP's (along with a 45/45 cuttting angle) and now the issue of groove modulation velocity gets tied further into the amplitude modulation of the groove. The higher the amplitude, the wider the spacing between each successive rotation on the disc and the "wider" the groove, or the greater the distance the stylus must move horizontally on a stereo disc where the groove is cut at a 45° angle to accommodate each channel. On a classical music recording, where the highest amplitude is typically at the inner groove, the modulation velocity is greatest to accommodate this amplitude change - i.e., the climax of the movement. The problem I run into here is - I need my hands. This is not just an Italian thing, it is difficult to explain the "diagonal movement" of the stylus in a 45/45 stereo groove where one direction (horizontal movement) reflects amplitude and the other direction (vertical movement) reflects frequency but both are happening at the same time and in real time. It is this combination of high amplitude and low frequency at the inner groove, where the groove modulation velocity is highest, that caused the problems of the cannons. Add to this the music is still playing with full orchestration including violins, horns and basses and the stylus is being tortured into physically impossible contortions. The problem would be minimized on a mono disc as frequency and amplitude are correlated in vertical movement only. (This is why rumble is virtually nonexistent when discussing a table playing a mono disc. No one paid attention to the noise being added to the disc playback by the table's main bearing until horizontal movement of the stylus was required.) The tracking distortion caused by tangential error of a pivoted tonearm makes the situation more difficult still as the inner groove distortions are at their higest levels. A linear tracking arm had, as a rule, an easier time playing the Telarc 1812 due to lower tracking and typically lower tracing errors, but the problems of linear tracking arms are still present on the rest of the disc. Anti-skate errors further compounded the problems of pivoted arms on this disc as they do on the inner grooves of all modern LP's. I think that's understandable. Yes? "FFRR" recordings were a trademark of London which, if I remember correctly, was a subsidiary of Decca at the time the "FFRR" logo was used. I could be very wrong about the Decca connection and stand to be corrected. I have several FFRR discs and they are of variable quality as this "technique" was utilized at a time when stereo recording techniques were ungoing large changes. Les Paul had introduced multichannel recording and microphone techniques were changing as technicians and engineers were under the gun to create new and exciting sounds. New and exciting usually meant the sound recording principles of the three mic Mercury's and RCA's or the Blumlein crossed mic techniques of many early Decca discs were discarded in favor of spotlighting performers and gain riding to go along with overdubbing. London had, as I remember, a rather decent stable of artists and the music making abilites are to be commended. But not all "FFRR" discs will sound equally good in terms of sonics. . |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8089 Registered: Dec-04 |  |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10923 Registered: May-04 | . Another "interesting" fact regarding the Telarc 1812, the higher the price on the tonearm/cartridge, the poorer the results in many cases playing the disc properly. A typical high end linear tracking arm, I think the Goldmund was around then, with an air bearing holding a typical medium mass, medium to low compliance moving coil of the day - a Koetsu Black or Rosewood - could not stay in the groove during the cannon fire without increasing VTF (2.5 grams) to the point of distortion elsewhere on the disc. This would have been an approximately $2500 arm with a $1500-3000 cartridge in 1979. On the other hand, a SME 309 pivoted arm with a V15III tracking at 1.25 grams could easily manage the Telarc disc. That package could be had on the street for around $700. See why I haven't talked about this in years? It's not exactly going to get a conversation started - that I can join in, at least - at a party. What fun stuff I have in my head! . |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8096 Registered: Dec-04 | nerd. Except here. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10930 Registered: May-04 | . Nerd?! Nerd?! Oh ... oh, yeah? Well, I would rather be a nerd than be ... hey, give me back my glasses! |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8099 Registered: Dec-04 | hehe, just need the right party, JV. |
|
Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 153 Registered: Jan-07 | Jan, couple things, one a philosophy note: people without a historical perspective are sometimes doomed to repeat certain errors. This is why I have trouble believing in HiFi 'progress', since it is sometimes difficult to make the comparison over long time periods and that certain aspects of stereo/HT are 'faddish'....like the current penchant for low-efficiency drivers. To be called a Nerd under these conditions is fine.....I may be an unbernerd, since I am so obsessive about some of these details. Many readers, new to the sport won't know what VTF is and if you mention anti-skate, they will think you are against certain winter olympic sports. That being said, there is an easy way to explain groove /linear velocity and without math. The disk rotates at a fixed speed.RPM .Everyone can understand that. At the outside of the record, the groove is pretty long and decreases in length to the end by the label (remember those?) Now, imagine the needle (sorry, stylus), wiggling in time to the groove...say a 1000hz sine wave. Now, the easy part. At the outside, the wiggles are far apart and at the inside they are much closer together....so the stylus has to wiggle more quickly, over the same amount of time. I don't think I did well, but I see now what the original remark meant and I should have figured it out.....I remember some of the original LD formats which were either CAV (constant angular velocity) or CLV...(constant linear velocity)... I remember the Pickering V15 and wanted one. By the time I could afford something better than the Shure/Empire stuff I always bought, I ended up with an Ortofon LM-20 which, while a bank account breaker was a revelation in sound.....I was frankly amazed and sorely missed it when one channel decided to 'go south'. I have no idea what the really best stuff sounds like. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10934 Registered: May-04 | . "At the outside of the record, the groove is pretty long and decreases in length to the end by the label." Sorry, LS, the groove is the same length when measured from either end. |
|
Bronze Member Username: MargieNapa, California Post Number: 88 Registered: Aug-05 | Hi Nuck is correct "just need the right party". Jan, it is such fun when you "let loose" this way... I would contribute but I really don't have anything to say. Maybe my little gold weight with the little gold chain is out of adjustment (anti-skate ?) |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10949 Registered: May-04 | . Hi, Margie. Everything OK? |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8123 Registered: Dec-04 | Hello again Margie. |
|
Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 154 Registered: Jan-07 | Jan, you know I didn't mean that..... the point I was getting at was trying to see the solution without math. The groove length per second is greater at the beginning than at the end.....so the stylus velocity is greater at the end than the beginning. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8125 Registered: Dec-04 | Other way around, Leo? |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10951 Registered: May-04 | . Compared to the area closest to the "lead out" groove and the label, the relative groove speed past the stylus is faster in i.p.s. (inches per second) at the portion of the groove closest to the "lead in" groove and the outer edge of the disc. The groove is the same at the inside or outside of the disc. If you measure three inches of length on the groove, it will be three inches no matter where on the disc you take the measurement. That's simple math, LS. . |
|
Bronze Member Username: MargieNapa, California Post Number: 89 Registered: Aug-05 | Hi Guys Everythings OK, thanks for asking. Life is complex but should settle down by the first of the year. I have had some computer problems and a lot of internet connection problems. Seems DSL through AT&T in Napa isn't very stable. I check in a lot and read what you old dogs have been saying to each other but that may be weeks after your posts. Just remember I am lurking! Your discussion of turntables/records was great fun. Some of the turntables/tonearms were works of art as well as mechines, just beautiful! I also remember buying an album, taking it home to find out that is was a little warpped, or poped ect. The solution to that problem was to catch the "first cut" on reel to reel after you had exchanged the record untill you had one that would play correctly. The sound was lovely. Now some of you refer to the sound of vinal and I wonder if something has changed in these intervening years. Are the disks more reliable now? |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8139 Registered: Dec-04 | Maybe a bit more discreet, Margie, and more reliable pressings. For a lot of us, it is a tuning of the listening skills that has excelled to meet the vinyl. |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2289 Registered: Sep-04 | Telarc 1812...you can see the cannons firing just by looking at the inner tracks of the record. They go all over the place (relatively)... The Shure V15 was renowned for being able to track that without trouble even at just 1.2g vtf - one reason for its popularity, since tracking was considered king in those days. Regards, Frank. |
|
Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10967 Registered: May-04 | . Margie - New LP's have better quality in general than they did 30 years ago. Mostly due to the low number of discs pressed. The specialty houses which still produce vinyl do so for a small crowd, usually either DJ's or the audiophile community. The audiophile quality recordings get thicker vinyl (180-200 gram discs) which tends to be more resistant to warpage. The vinyl is always first class with no chunks of ground up returned discs floating to the surface as you might have found in a 1978 RCA release. But they cost upwards of $20 a piece. Many of us still haunt the second hand record shops buying up other people's discards. Here quality is not better than before and the disc is likely to have suffered at the hands of its original owner. But there are some gems to be found and you can spend an afternoon filing through the $1 bins. As always, caveat emptor. http://www.elusivedisc.com/ http://www.musicdirect.com/products/category.asp?category=1030 . |
|
Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 598 Registered: May-06 | Margie, Hi there! I have done the laying on the floor recently looking through the $1 bins and found not even some gems, but some reference recordings. Unfortunately the same night I found a $50 Pink Floyd Ummagumma LP with the unauthorized cover in near perfect condition (made the mistake of looking into a different bin). So I ended up with 63 albums for about $90 (some were $0.50). It is what it is the same as it is what you want it to be. |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- A/V Receivers Forum
- Amps Forum
- Cassette Forum
- CD Players Forum
- CD Recorders Forum
- DAC & Transports Forum
- DVD-Audio & SACD Forum
- Equalizers Forum
- Integrated Amps Forum
- iPod Docks Forum
- MiniDisc Forum
- Mini Systems Forum
- Digital Music Systems Forum
- Phono Forum
- Preamps Forum
- Speakers Forum
- Subwoofers Forum
- Tuners Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics