How to make dyn 42's Disappear
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 102 Registered: Jun-06 | Hi All, Please advise for the best amp option that will help the Dyns vanish leaving the music behind. Just bought a pair of Dyn 42s for the bedroom and looking out for an amp to go between them and a NAD 542 (which shall be upgraded in the due course) I already have a Rotel 1050 power amp spare doing nothing. Now the questions which needs some help are 1.) what is the best route to take - Pre.Power or Integrated. Pre available is Dared 550 and Integrated options are Rega Brio Rotel 1062 Cyrus 6 - not the latest, dealer says will be very musical though it wont go very loud. Marantz 7001 Not a great fan of NAD I have read at different places that if the 42 are partnered correctly the have a ability to dissappear very well - thats the aim. If i need to go in for a Better Option i dont mind to wait and then buy some thing else. Stands will be Mission Stancette, Interconnects are VDH MK III Cables Kimber 4/8TC. Power cables - Merlin Tarantula Bedroom size is 14X13ft. Music type is Slow Rock and Acoustics at low volume and hence the amp should be able to drive the speakers very well at low volumes. Please Advise, i also have access to Arcam ,MF, Naim which shall be the next step up. Many Thanks in Advance. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 103 Registered: Jun-06 | Correction - pre available is a Tube - Dared tube SL2000 preamp |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2229 Registered: Sep-04 | Saurabh, The Mission Stancette is a pretty basic stand. Any chance of something a little meatier? If not, the bass may remain fairly undefined. The Rotel has great power but the Brio has the better finesse. I'm not a fan of Cyrus, but I appreciate that its presentation is very open and airy. Not a fan of Marantz. If I were to choose it'd be the Brio. If you can stretch, consider the Mira which, in its current form, is better enough to warrant the extra outlay. (The Mira was the same price as the 1062 here in the UK!) IIRC I've heard that Rega suits the Kimber cable, but no idea about the Merlins. And as you know, Art likes the vdh interconnects. I'm not a fan since I find them a bit dry, and therefore prefer Chord cable. All that said, Arcam's new A70 is a really good amplifier too, which can drive the 42s happily. I just don't know how the Kimber will work with it. The 542 is a good CD player. I've had good results with it in this kind of system. The next step I would take would be the Apollo or Naim CD5i depending on funds and given the availability you mention. Regards, Frank. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10658 Registered: May-04 | . How to make the speakers "vanish"? Set them up properly. Put "speaker set up" in a search engine and read. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 104 Registered: Jun-06 | Thank you Frank and Jan. Yes Mira/Brio or Arcam 70 sounds good and i also always liked the T73 CDP which i find quite similar to the apollo except that apollo is slighlty more detailed, Cyrus is a good option but the price that at which a demo unit is offered - i could get a new Brio. I ultimately plan to have the speakers on some shelves at ear level and hence turned down an offer for Dyn Stand 1 (Shall i get those - will they make quite a difference?) So are we saying, the vanishing act is more to do with proper set up and less to do with electronics - please enlighten me more on the set up. My listening position will be my bed  . Regards |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10662 Registered: May-04 | . Put "speaker set up" in a search engine and read. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 105 Registered: Jun-06 | Some really good Stuff Jan that i didnt know, and a lot to play with now. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 106 Registered: Jun-06 | Frank - i have filled up the stands with sand and are quite heavy , do you still think i should look at better options? I can still get Stand 1 for a swap and a little more money. Also Mira is almost twice the price of Brio here  just checked |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7675 Registered: Dec-04 | Saurabh, how have you laid out your 14'X13' room? How are the furnishings, beyond the bed? Have you considered the hard corners of the room, if not, you might consider some of the fine stable of kit that you have. I think you might be surprised. Dude, you have a lotta nice stuff there, the room will be more effective than more stuff. Then again, if the spare 1062 falls offa your truck in my driveway, I ain't calling nobody I think thinkin' the room will go miles(kilometers), Saurabh |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 107 Registered: Jun-06 | Haha, Nuck - the tragedy here is i got rid of my 1062 for silly money and now pulling my hair off. I know the point you and Jan ae trying to make, and i am going to play around a lots this time with the room itself. Room has carpet for flooring, Bed in the centre, heavy drapes on on the left and the wardrobe on the right and some light furnishings. I shall try to treat the corners this time as the lay open. Cheers |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7681 Registered: Dec-04 | Cheers, Saurabh! |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingUK Post Number: 389 Registered: Mar-04 | How to make them vanish? Leave them on the street overnight. |
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Bronze Member Username: Carlos_mPost Number: 67 Registered: Oct-06 | Hi saurabh, One ideia to make your speakers dyn 42's Disappear is use the Cyrus Bi-wire Speaker Cable in your sound system. That cable allows you to have an excellent soundstage. I use it with my sound system and I`m very happy. http://www.cyrusaudio.com/prd_downloads/SpeakerCableMar04.pdf Regards Carlos |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 108 Registered: Jun-06 | Thanks Carlos, I have very similar experience with Kimber 8TC and hence using the same. Guys, While i am waiting to pick up a Integrated or a preamp i connected my IPOD directly to the power amp and i have to say that they already sound very nice (Used Apple lossless format). Does one think this s the way to go? No preamp no extra cables? I have to say that its not a very dynamic sound, but very nice details and yes sounds good with acoustics rather than complex stuff. Cheers |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2232 Registered: Sep-04 | Carlos, really good idea considering the Dyns are single wire only...! Saurabh, my experience with 42s tells me that you need their backs at least 18" from the rear wall, standing on medium mass stands (a few kilos apiece). Keep the Stancettes for now but see how you get on. Start with the speakers square to the bed (not toed in), about 6' apart. that should be a good starting place for 42s. From there you need to experiment. Make sure the stands do not rock since that really messes the 42's timing and bass resolution. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 109 Registered: Jun-06 | Spot On Frank, Thats exactly how they are at the moment and giving out some real good sound. I checked the stands (which are fairly heavy after filling up with the sand), how ever they still do rock so i shall be adding some blu tac under them - and if that doesnt work then the sand shall be replaced with lead shots. Came back today from work and rechecked if was not biased about the sound, i have to say that the IPOD (yes the ipod) playing directly into an power amp and using a Apple lossless format sounds very good. I am no HiFi guru but i know little bit about sound (for those thinking i have lost it all). Shall keep you all posted, Thanks to everyone. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2237 Registered: Sep-04 | Hang on! Those stands are screw together types. Typically, for best results with 42s, you should be using blutack on the top plate to couple the speaker to the stand and the spikes in the bottom plate should be setup so nothing rocks. I hope you've done this. Incidentally in Apple lossless format the iPod can sound remarkably good, certainly better than many entry level CD players and many DVD players. Of course it's no Apollo... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 110 Registered: Jun-06 | Frank - Agreed, once again (ipod) and yes it would be very interesting to see how my NAD 542 fares once i get a preamp or a Integrated. Yes the spikes are on (shall level them precisely on the weekend. Blutac missing - weekend job again. Frank, in some previous posts you have recommended Brio for Dyn 42s, could you please tell little more for the same. Will the Brio drive the Dyns well at moderately high volumes as well, could you crank up the volume with the brio - the only reason i am asking this is because the RB 1050 is doing some really good job and i am playing the Dyns at higher volumes than i normally would. There are some 1070 preamps for sale which would be nice i guess. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2247 Registered: Sep-04 | Saurabh, the Rotels are usually more powerful than the equivalent Rega and can play at consistently louder volumes where the level remains high more readily than the Brio I think. However, the Rega is really good at dynamic contrast where a piece will go from quiet to loud or vice versa. So the Rega will be more limited in terms of playing rock or metal since that is consistently high level music usually with little dynamic contrast, but if you play something which does vary a bit more such as Yes, Neil Young, Ryan Adams, then the Rega gives the impression of being the more powerful amp simply because it copes with the dynamic swings more readily - which means you don't need to play music louder of course. I hope you understand why I couldn't answer your question with a straight yes or no... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 111 Registered: Jun-06 | Added some Blu tac to day between the speakers and the stands, and did my normal test to check for any resonance being passed through the stands.Just touched the base of the stand with a bass heavy track on a high volume. conclusion - blu tac make quite a big difference . Little off the topic - does anyone here think that the 42s are little more smoother than the 52s - or is it just my perception. This is what i felt when i bought them. Cheers |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 115 Registered: Jun-06 | Frank, Could you please sugggest any velodyn sub that would mate well with the dyn 42s or if any of the forum members have any suggestions. Did any one have trouble/experience matching a sub to the 42s. I had one disaster in the past and hence a bit wary this time. Regards |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7753 Registered: Dec-04 | saurabh, do not get a Velodyne DP12. I have that one and it sucks. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 116 Registered: Jun-06 | Ok - shall avoid that I had a audio pro sub which is fantastic for movies but not fast enough for music (and at that time i believed all subs are the same) so spent a lot of time on the same with no good results. Nuck do you have any preference for any subs just for music? without breaking the bank. Just wanting to check some options - 42s has some quality bass i am guessing would be hard to match with any budget sub. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 117 Registered: Jun-06 | Help! Any suggestions much appreciated..... I had a day off today so decided to make my stands heavy. I went ahead and bought around 20Kgs of lead shot and replaced all the sand - that was in the stands - making them quite heavy. Each stands took around 9 Kgs of lead shots. The Imaging has imroved in leaps and bound and the timing is crisp and much better - but all at an cost of the musical bass i had before, the sound also now sounds slightly brighter than before. I moved the speakers close to the wall (Just 6 inches from 18 inches) to reinforce some bass, it helped but its not musical any more. Shall i make a mixture of Sand and lead? Is there a better way of retaining all the goodies and having more bass? or will it be a compromise ? When i played the 42s for he first time i never thought i would need a Sub but now i do. Bass dissappears faster than before - if you understand what i mean, i was so happy with the rotel and 42 match that i went ahead and ordered a RC 1070 but now it looks like dyns are exposing the slight livelyness of the Rotels while the Rotels are now getting half the bass out of the Dyns. any suggestion before i reverse all my efforts (more than few hours already spent today) |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 491 Registered: May-06 | It's late, I'm tired. Short answer, move the speakers. Try this, one that Jan suggested to me. With you back against the wall you place your speakers in front of, start walking toward the opposite wall counting out loud. When you hear a change in how your voice sounds you stop. Mark the spot. Start with placing your speakers at that distance from the wall and do whatever you did to get the sound with bass you liked from that point. I think it has to do with your tightening up the connection from the floor to your speakers which is giving you the "improvements" you describe but you lost something in the process. A situation we all find ourselves in. Be patient, and be creative. It will come. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7779 Registered: Dec-04 | For goodness sakes Saurabh, DO NOT listen to a Classe amp. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 118 Registered: Jun-06 | Thanks Michael, Nuck i promise i wont Even i am too tired now for the day - shall start thinking again tomorrow Shutting down my brains for now............... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7783 Registered: Dec-04 | The best part is... all the componants and the music will be there tomorrow! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2250 Registered: Sep-04 | Saurabh I've seen this before. It sounds to me like you've overdone it on the weight side. I find that if a stand is too heavy it sucks the life out of the speaker, the bass is lost and the timing goes to hell in a handcart. Dynaudio's stands are not very heavy - they're medium mass. I'd be surprised if they weighed more than 5 or 6 kilos each. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 120 Registered: Jun-06 | Sorry for the late reply..... Happy to say that the dyns have finally disappeared - well almost, finally found the sweet spot where they sound yummy - the voices come from between the speakers and slightly elevated. Thanks to everyone, Frank - taking off some lead shots out of the stands helped a lot - thank you. I had initially added 9 kgs of lead shot each, but now have approx 4 kgs each and the sound is very nice. Once again the rotel and the dyns like each other . Also i bought a RC 1070 and the whole system shines, i knew the dyns would be beter than the B&W600 series, but what really surprised me was the margin between the dyns and the B&W. Already dreaming of the Dyn C1 - maybe some day..... |
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