Sub to pair with Linns
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New member Username: Roarkh9Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-07 | Hey guys, I'd like your opinions on a subwoofer that would work well with the speakers I have recently purchased: Linn Komponent 104's for the front L&R and Linn Komp. 106 center channel. The Linn fronts are replacing the (used when I bought from a friend) Magnepan MMG's I've had for four years -- I wanted speakers that took up less space. My current subwoofer is from a theater in a box that I got four years ago to start out, but now want to upgrade. The Linn woofer I auditioned works well, but is a little steep in price ($1,000). I'd like to spend $700 or less. For your info here is my set up: Philips HD TV (CRT 1080i) -- I plan on upgrading this next year to a 1080p plasma or LCD Linn Komp. 104 -- L&R Linn Komp. 106 -- Center Audiophile satellite speakers -- Rear Surrounds -- Will upgrade later Adcom GFA-555 II -- powering my fronts Denon AVR 3803 Receiver -- Will upgrade when I buy a new TV Denon 900 Progressive Scan DVD Player NAD CD Player Monster Power Center Thanks for any suggestions. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10611 Registered: May-04 | http://www.hsuresearch.com/ |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10612 Registered: May-04 | . Sorry, this got lost somewhere between here and there. Try the Hsu subs, they have a 30 day free trial. They are quite musical and offer excellent value. Their fourth order low pass filter will almost always make the most sense when partnering with a satellite (standmounted or fullrange) front speaker. You choose the bass extension and buy what your room will support. . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4969 Registered: Feb-05 | I will second that. For the money Hsu is a very good sub. With your Linns I would probably stick with a sub with a 10 inch driver vs the 12 as it's just a tad slower, perhaps enough to make the difference. I owned the VTF 2 and it really was a competent sub. |
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New member Username: Roarkh9Post Number: 2 Registered: Jun-07 | I was thinking of the HSU; originally the 12" but that's a good point in favor of the 10. Thanks for the help. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10615 Registered: May-04 | . I do believe the common knowledge approach to driver size suggests that larger is slower due to higher mass in the larger radiator. That is not, however, automatically the case. Driver "speed" is affected by the inductance of the voice coil and, to some extent, the ability of the driving amplifier to push current through the inductive load. If the amplifier is up to he task and similar for both drivers, the inductor (voice coil) will allow current change at a rate that is determined by its size, not the size of the radiating mass/driver. Now, a larger radiating area for a driver typically means a larger voice coil and, therefore, a larger inductor to drive. Right? Not necessarily. A larger driver should not have to produce as much motion in order to create the same low frequency transient as a smaller driver at a similar SPL. A disadvantage of smaller drivers is the higher distortion they produce as they reach the limits of their throw within the voice coil. One advantage of a larger driver is the shorter stroke it will require to reproduce the same transient with cleaner results at the same SPL. Remembering that the inductance of the voice coil is what will determine the speed of the motor/voice coil; a larger driver will use a different voice coil and therefore may have the same "speed" as the smaller driver. This transient speed will be determined by the inductance of the voice coil and two different drivers will probably not have the same voice coil/motor. I would call Hsu and ask their opinion. Do not be tempted to buy more woofer than your room can support but do not assume one driver will be faster or slower than another. http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/WooferSpeed.pdf . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4973 Registered: Feb-05 | True Jan, it isn't always the case but it often is and having heard the VTF2 and 3 I can say it is again in this case, at least to my ears. Still a very good sub but I would only buy it if the system would be doing most of it's work in the HT mode. As Jan pointed out they have a very good return policy. Also another good point is to call Dr Hsu. I've talked with him several times and he is very informative. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7636 Registered: Dec-04 | Velodyne make a good line of subs as well, although the 12" vtF that I have would not be rec for the Linn. too slow by far, and I should not have bought it. The rest of the lineup is pretty good. Just another option. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4984 Registered: Feb-05 | The hi end Velodynes are very good but above his stated budget. The less expensive ones I don't find very musical. |
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New member Username: Roarkh9Post Number: 3 Registered: Jun-07 | Thanks for your help. It's always a tough balance between cost and performance. The other difficult thing in my circumstance is that I'm in the military and move every few years so the room I put my theater in is not a constant obviously. I'm a musician (in the military) so I loved having the Maggies, but I put the Linns through the ringer and was happy with their performance relative to their price. I've always heard good things about HSU and I think I will audition them to pair with the Linns. Thanks again, Domingos |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 24 Registered: Jul-07 | I have a HSU power sub woofer VTF2; Got it to augment my little Rogers L5/35A monitors. It is really more than I need but it has a volume control and crossover control so it worked out nicely. Unfortunately it just went silent after a few years. I have at the hospitol for a diagnosis and don't know what the problem is yet. |
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Silver Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIBville Post Number: 190 Registered: Jul-06 | I wouldn't recommend a less capable 10" subwoofer for the above reasons. |
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Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 136 Registered: Jan-07 | HSU Research is just up the road from me, in Orange County. If you want a volunteer to check one out, I'll gladly test it for you for a few weeks. Just send it over! Dr HSU sometimes answers E-mail himself and is an absolute wealth of informed opinion. They rate there subs partly by room size. There guide to purchase and FAQ page are a reasonable read. A HSU sub is on my 'short list' of equipment purchases. My MG-1's are quite bass shy, and while over 20 years old, have been rebuilt by the nice folks in White Bear Lake. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 28 Registered: Jul-07 | I would be glad to send it leo, but that thing is big and heavy. After I put it in the repair shop my dealer suggested taking it apart and sending the amp only. Doh! didn't think of that. Did you see http://www.sensiblesound.com/backissues.htm Number 111, Jan/Feb 07 review of VTF-3 MK-3. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7928 Registered: Dec-04 | If a replacement is in order, we might want to look at REL subs. I am. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 30 Registered: Jul-07 | Speaking of Subs, I saw Buster Williams live recently in a Jazz club with good acoustics. Buster is one of the strongest players of upright bass. Bought the CD and listened at home with the Rogers L5/35A, HsU combination (Niam CD player) and have to say I enjoyed the CD. Not trying to say my system is the same as live, just saying it enables me to enjoy such an instrument. btw, I got that sub just because it was available. Not auditioned like much of my shopping, just hearsay. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 101 Registered: Jul-07 | HsU returns from the hospitol. Cost $160. Doctor was very impressed with it. He said it was "arcing" inside. Truth is I would prefer speakers not needing a sub but cannot give up the Rogers which do sound better with some bottom. Now I am carrying the concrete paving blocks in! Test that idea. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 604 Registered: May-06 | Good idea. And how did it turn out? |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 107 Registered: Jul-07 | Sub sounds great but still shuts off after hours of play. Goes again after cooled down. I better take it back to the repair shop. Sound great up on blocks. I have a space of 4.5 inches between the blocks which are about 4" tall. No science there, it is just that the sub is huge and I had to spread them. Oh hell, the neighbor is complaining about the base. Apartment life! Oh well. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11010 Registered: May-04 | . "Sub sounds great but still shuts off after hours of play." "Oh hell, the neighbor is complaining about the base." "Apartment life! Oh well." We feel your pain KC. . |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 111 Registered: Jul-07 | 5pm and they are beating on the wall again. I ask what time of day can we be noisy?? Funny, I do own a house too! I have not lived in it for 16 yrs (coinciding with the LP storage), since I became a "snowbird" and started spending only 6 mo/yr in Alaska. When I was living in my house I had the very same Rogers but a big MK sub of much lower quality than the HsU. With a big Haffler amp we really rocked the house! Now what I would call normal volume bothers the neighbor. I had hoped the bricks would help. Maybe I should put some rigid foam under the blocks? I fear something is still wrong because I can only turn the HsU volume on about 5% of the way to get it at proper level. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5175 Registered: Feb-05 | Kevin, when you worked at HP did you live in Corvallis? If so do you know Jim at Northwest Audio Labs...You have mentioned Hafler a couple of times...just curious. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11020 Registered: May-04 | . "I fear something is still wrong because I can only turn the HsU volume on about 5% of the way to get it at proper level." The 3/5a's are only 82dB sensivity. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11021 Registered: May-04 | . Aww, what hapened to my "ti" in sensitivity? Lousy forum! |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 112 Registered: Jul-07 | I should have said the sub is more powerful since the repair. Before I used to set the vol at about 35%. Yesterday I noticed the 'clip' LEDs come on while playing a Sheffield Lab LP on the Rega P3. 1st time I ever noticed them come on. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 113 Registered: Jul-07 | When I lived in Corvalis OR, I never looked at HiFi. I just carried a mini system because I travel light as a "road trash" boomer. I worked jobs in Portland, Warm Springs (stayed in Madras), Salem and Eugene. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 126 Registered: Jul-07 | The HsU sub is out again after $160 repair. dilemma: 1- take it back to the same guy. He is reputable. But how much more will it cost? 2- Buy a new sub 3- Live without 4- Send it off for repair |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8227 Registered: Dec-04 | KC, if he is reputable, he should not charge much, if anything to make it right. Something in there is seriously overdriving and likely overheating. |
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Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 162 Registered: Jan-07 | Where did it arc? Arcing on circuit boards can sometimes, depending on grade/quality of board turn it into a form of conductive charcoal which is a low grade short.... Your apartment solution is to (was, at least...too late!) convince your neighbors you're deaf....and that is the only way you can hear anything is to turn it up a bit, but that you are good lipreading movies. Don't answer the door unless the just about BEAT it down. Ignore upstairs clog dancing. Maybe send off to HSU and ask how much a new plate amp would set you back, after giving the current tech another shot at the 'big fix'......... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8236 Registered: Dec-04 | upstairs...clog...dancing hehehe |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 130 Registered: Jul-07 | Upstairs I think it it is soccer/football. Unfortunately it is the quiet neighbor to the side. The repair tech is convinced that I must have wired it wrong. Not. I will have him take a look. |
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Silver Member Username: LeonskiPost Number: 163 Registered: Jan-07 | You wiring being wrong is probably a non-starter: Do you use low level inputs? if yes he (mr tech) needs to take another look. If you use use speaker level I/O, ask why your AMP feeding it hasn't gone into self protect or outright smoked? Know any musicians looking for a place to practice? Now's your chance! There is always one of those recluse/loner types who spoil the fun...and expect everyone to live as if they were in a cell at a Monastary, the 'Vow of Silence' happening. Cone of Silence? |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 133 Registered: Jul-07 | I have friends here with a hot blues band. You think the neighbors would like Stevie Ray? I don't know about low level inputs. I have had the sub several years. I go from the amp speaker wires out to the sub wire inputs. Then from the sub wire outputs to the speakers. The tech wanted me to try the RCA connection from the reciever tape out to the sub in. I tried that but went back to the wires because with the RCA jacks the amp volume could barely be turned on. Too much power. Besides I would like to use the connections on the reciever for a cdp. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 619 Registered: May-06 | KC, wire to wire, that terminology has multiple uses for a reason.  Leo, the whole sorry can you speak up thing.... I like the way you think. Reminds me of the kids who let loose goats in their school numbered 1, 2, and 4. The administrators spent hours looking for 3 which did not exist. If only they thought "Why would anyone number the goats?" |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 142 Registered: Jul-07 | Good one! The sub is back in the hospital. See my post on the music selection for how this sys sounds w/o sub. thanks, kc. |
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Silver Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 166 Registered: Jul-07 | Sub is all fixed for no extra charge. Good thing I went back to the same guy. |
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