How does vintage amps compare to low-end amp thant are made now?
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New member Username: MediaprofessionalPost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-07 | how does vintage amps compare to low-end amp thant are made today? I was thinking of buying a urei 6230 on ebay for around 100 dollars. deal sounded so good since, to my knowledge urei is great brand when is comes to audio. but I am afraid that since they are so old, and that todays technology just might have become so advance........ I know that old tube amps sell for a lot of money but I never experienced what they are about... and why they are so expensive.... any suggestions? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2186 Registered: Sep-04 | Not an easy one to answer... Never heard of urei so I can't comment on that, but older equipment can still make new equipment look a bit silly sometimes. Naturally, if it's really old, there's a chance it may be fairly tired since everything ages in this world. After all, there are modern manufacturers making tube equipment, some of which is based on circuits from the 30's! Yes, there are more modern techniques and some modern technologies that can help certain aspects of the designs, but if an old design is a good design, it remains a good design. I guess the thing you have to consider is if the components are so old that you may have a short shelf life left in the thing. If you consider that you're spending just $100, and it blows in a year, then next year you may have to buy another item. You could argue that it's $100 wasted but if you buy a relatively inexpensive $200 item, the chances are that next year it will only be worth $120 so you lose in depreciation anyway. If you buy a 1- or 2-year old item, you mitigate the immediate depreciation loss while having a fairly new item so that's possibly the best scenario. That said, you might be able to get a 2-year old model which is the next one up from the 1-year old model, so it's not straightforward. And in the game of A/V receiversthere have been some significant strides made in the last 5 years, year on year, both in terms of technology and implementation. Hope this helps... Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 372 Registered: Mar-04 | Back on-topic, older equipment can often be better than newer budget kit and crucially costs less. However, as has been mentioned, there is the wearing out of components to take into account. If something hasn't had much use or has been overhauled then it can be a great buy. Buying something on Ebay for peanuts that once gained great reviews and is highly thought of can be exciting, but when an old piece of junk arrives in the post that excitement can be cut somewhat short! I wouldn't buy any old hifi kit unless I trusted the vendor 100% or I could test it before purchasing. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7535 Registered: Dec-04 | Or if it is a prized posession, and add a rebuild into the price from the get go. I'm gonna buy 'this' and have it rebuilt right away, to 'x' mod. |
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New member Username: MediaprofessionalPost Number: 3 Registered: Jun-07 | thank you guys for your time and opinions. i have one last question is there a way to measure the quality of the sound? is there a measuring tool for it? thanks guys? |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingUK Post Number: 381 Registered: Mar-04 | No way at all other than using your ears! Even when you read an amp's specs, it means nothing as to how it will sound. An amp can have brilliant specs on paper but sound horrid and vice versa! |
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New member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 6 Registered: Jun-07 | I don't have a lot of experience with older pieces of audio equipment. What Adam has said in the last two posts is spot on. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 433 Registered: May-06 | I had two Carver M-4.0t amps. Forum led me to use one and it improved my system. Sent the 2nd out for refurbishment. Swapped it into the system when it came back not knowing what to expect. What I ended up with is something that I will not replace, maybe ever. Sold the unrefurbished one as my dreams of bi-amping using 2 Carvers were dashed when I bought my Gallos. That necessitated purchasing the Gallo Sub-Amp. Different speakers and I would have doubled down on my Carvers. |
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New member Username: MediaprofessionalPost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-07 | first thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge on this issue. and I want to apologize first for what I am about to say.. which is, when I see big expensive unit with big price tag I automatically assume that the sound is awesome. I can easily differentiate a $200 unit with $2000. but as the price range gets closer I can't differentiate what is good or better. I know it is stupid but when I am faced to make a decision I always go with higher the price, better the system.  you see my problem...... so yerterday I did a little research.... I bet all of you know this already. the company called lindos electronics(www.lindos.co.uk). they seem to have a machine to measure the quality of sound, do anyone have experience with these machine? I know that any machine can not immitate the complex logic of our aural sences.................. sorry guys I'm just very curious, I know I am annoying.. forgive me... thanks you guys. and if anyone comes to NYC lunch is on me. |
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New member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 3 Registered: Jun-07 | 1978 - Klipsch Heresy Spkrs $1200 1985 - Philips CD Player (still works perfectly) $150 1990 - No-name Sony CD Player $270 2003 - NAD C370 Integrated Amp $750 2007 - Soundstage One Hybrid Integrated Tube Amp $400 2007 - Axiom MT60's Spkrs $1200 CD players are a scam - you couldn't tell a $200 unit from a $1,000 unit. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 234 Registered: Dec-06 | CD players are a scam - you couldn't tell a $200 unit from a $1,000 unit. I don't know that I've ever heard somebody more wrong about something on these forums. Ever |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10578 Registered: May-04 | . Keep in mind he paid $1200 for a $698 pair of speakers in 1978. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingUK Post Number: 385 Registered: Mar-04 | Danny, your initial post was about buying a $100 dollar used amp off Ebay. Are you then going to buy an expensive commercial testing unit to set up your hifi system? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10580 Registered: May-04 | . ? Commercial testing unit? |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 236 Registered: Dec-06 | Danny thinks he can get one of those, Jan. To measure the quality of sound. Beethoven's head on a stick or somethin'. 892 miles is a long way to go for a pastrami sandwich from Katz's but I'll give you a jingle if I get the urge, Danny. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10582 Registered: May-04 | . Makes perfect sense now. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 15 Registered: Jun-07 | 1. First I'll tell you a little story. I was in an Ottawa Audio Shop doing an A/B test between a $500 NAD receiver and a $1000 NAD C370 Integrated Amp, which eventually sold for $750. I forget the CD player, speakers and CD that I listened to (speakers were probably Energy or Polk). 2. Test A (the receiver) - Sounds fine. 3. Test B (the integrated amp) - Sounds fine - can't tell the difference. 4. Salesman says "The difference is pretty obvious isn't it). I nod yes. 5. Both systems sound identical after volume adjustment. 6. I buy the C370's because I don't use a tuner, and the C370 probably has better components (according to what I've read). Well then, take the A/B test. One amp, two CD players, ensuring they are adjusted to equivalent volume. Make sure you check all the interconnects (not that salesmen are known to be less than reputable.) |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 16 Registered: Jun-07 | 1. First I'll tell you a little story. I was in an Ottawa Audio Shop doing an A/B test between a $500 NAD receiver and a $1000 NAD C370 Integrated Amp, which eventually sold for $750. I forget the CD player, speakers and CD that I listened to (speakers were probably Energy or Polk). 2. Test A (the receiver) - Sounds fine. 3. Test B (the integrated amp) - Sounds fine - can't tell the difference. 4. Salesman says "The difference is pretty obvious isn't it). I nod yes. 5. Both systems sound identical after volume adjustment. 6. I buy the C370's because I don't use a tuner, and the C370 probably has better components (according to what I've read). 7. Well then, take the A/B test. One amp, two CD players, ensuring they are adjusted to equivalent volume. Make sure you check all the interconnects (not that salesmen are known to be less than reputable). 8. I did a test between a $200 Sony, and a $1,000 Denon using optical O/Ps. I didn't know which system I was listeneing to. All I can say is that the two systems sounded minutely differently, and I gave the edge to the Sony (no I'm not a Sony rep). It's still the same Sony I have after 17 years (with no repairs, or peculiarities). 9. Moral of the story: people perceive sound differently, and for CD players, most of which will always be listened to as background music, choose a mid-priced, high quality one, because the only thing you're going to be able to say between what you compare is that "they sound different". You're not going to be able to say "the sonic qualities between these two players is "night 'n day". |
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Bronze Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 11 Registered: Jun-07 | hmmmmm. Well I too, started out with a Sony CD Player...I upgraded to a NAD cd player, and on the same speakers, same receiver, same volume level. There was a H U G E difference in sound quality, bass, and air volume pushed through out my room. The DAC's in higher quality cd players makes for a big difference. Yes I agree, some people, like my mom,might not notice a diffence, but I sure did. Even my future wife was blown away by the difference, and she is into shoes, not audio. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7593 Registered: Dec-04 | Nick, good luck with the shoe thing, Imelda Morcos likes the Apollo. |
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Bronze Member Username: Nickelbut10Canada Post Number: 13 Registered: Jun-07 | LOL thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 17 Registered: Jun-07 | 1. stryvn: I'm not trying to be cauchy, but read the 2nd reply that I posted (the 1st one was posted in the middle of what I was writing and was obviously not complete). Distill its contents, and you'll learn a little something that you can apply to life in general. 2. Remember, no sarcasm intended. People are influenced by their friends, what they read, and the impression that they try to make on others. Most are incapable of independendent thinking (I'm not saying that any of this applies to you). 3. Read, research, assess, gather opinions, and make a final decision. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10585 Registered: May-04 | . "Moral of the story: people perceive sound differently ... " Or, not at all. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10586 Registered: May-04 | . I still think, "CD players are a scam - you couldn't tell a $200 unit from a $1,000 unit", is dumb advice. You have no idea what someone else can hear. Judging someone else's ability to hear improvements in sound quality should be left to the individual and they should not be told, "this is good enough for me so it should be good enough for you". The fact that you cannot hear any improvements between a $200 and a $1k player are totally irrelevant to the discussion. Just curious, "Salesman says 'The difference is pretty obvious isn't it'. I nod yes." Why did you agree if you didn't think there was a difference? You don't appear to be the type who shies away from giving an opinion. . |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 435 Registered: May-06 | Eric, all you tested were the transports of the CD players. You have no idea what either unit sounded like, and most likely still do not. You have a good idea of what your reciever sounds like. Next time use RCAs, then tell us how much alike they are. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 237 Registered: Dec-06 | Congratulations for getting "cauchy" into the forums. Great stuff, Einstein. You almost trumped the most wrong thing I've ever read on these forums. 9. Moral of the story: people perceive sound differently, and for CD players, most of which will always be listened to as background music There's a leap I ain't willing to take. You're not going to be able to say "the sonic qualities between these two players is "night 'n day". You're DEAD wrong. I've done the A/B test. Same gear. Same cd. Same dealer. Night and Day! No doubt about it! My ear tells me so. I cannot be held responsible for what your ear hears or does not. Nor can you. Nice try though. Distill its contents, and you'll learn a little something that you can apply to life in general. I've distilled it. It tastes like cheap vodka. There's better stuff out there, Eric. Again, nice try. 2. Remember, no sarcasm intended. People are influenced by their friends, what they read, and the impression that they try to make on others. Most are incapable of independendent thinking (I'm not saying that any of this applies to you). I agree with this. But then you go on to prove that you're one of the plastics you speak of.... 3. Read, research, assess, gather opinions, and make a final decision. Sure, check with everyone else before you decide. But please be an independant thinker. Just sounds stupid to me. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 238 Registered: Dec-06 | I say speakers are a scam. You couldn't tell the difference between a $698 speaker and the same speaker priced at $500 higher. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7597 Registered: Dec-04 | A 17yr old Sony player and a receiver. Now I know why I listen to Eric's opinion so closely. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10587 Registered: May-04 | . EG - You ain't winning the hearts and minds war. |
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Silver Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 122 Registered: Aug-04 | I had the Rega Apollo, Vincent CD S6 and Integra DPS 10.5 Universal in my system, all connected at the same time. I have switched back and forth with the exact same CD in all three players. And there's an audible difference between all three players. It is noticable, to my ears and the ears a a few friends who were with me. Not a one sounds worse than the other type of thing. Rather, different flavors. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 239 Registered: Dec-06 | Hey Eric, I see in your profile you have a "no-name Sony cd player"............Which is it? I also see after your "no-name Sony" cdp you have "(soon to be upgraded)". How could you possibly "upgrade" your cdp when there is no discernable difference between a $200 cdp and a $1000 cdp? Engineer? Danny....did you ever go thru with the deal on e-bay? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2208 Registered: Sep-04 | Eric, I have a question for you. Do you ever listen to your system and enjoy listening to it? I don't mean have it on in the background while reading a book. I mean, do you ever decide you're going to play a piece of music, and do nothing but listen to it? And if you do, does the performance affect you in any way? I wonder, because the impression I get is that this is probably not the case. And it should be... Regards, Frank. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10592 Registered: May-04 | . Oohooh, EG, it's sounds like you've just rode into the Sommmeleir's Annual Get Together and Gab Fest on an Anheuser Busch Clydesdale and horsey took a big dump in someone's Chardonnay. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 240 Registered: Dec-06 | Was I piling on? Where'd he go? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7602 Registered: Dec-04 | THIS keeps me coming back. Eric, not so much. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 133 Registered: Feb-07 | Eric, which Ottawa audio shop were you in? |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingUK Post Number: 387 Registered: Mar-04 | Sorry guys, I was trying to send him back but he dummied me and ran past. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 23 Registered: Jun-07 | stryvn: I believe you've been greatly offended, and I'll see if I can make it up to you! 1. Congratulations for getting "cauchy" into the forums. Great stuff, Einstein. Once again, your intellect shines - Nobel material no doubt. 2. You almost trumped the most wrong thing I've ever read on these forums. Congratulations, you can read. Was it remedial classes, and how many were required? 3. Moral of the story: people perceive sound differently, and for CD players, most of which will always be listened to as background music. There's a leap I ain't willing to take. Ah, too bad, a bridge would have done fine and weights would have helped. 4. You're not going to be able to say "the sonic qualities between these two players is "night 'n day". You're DEAD wrong. I've done the A/B test. Same gear. Same cd. Same dealer. Night and Day! No doubt about it! My ear tells me so. I cannot be held responsible for what your ear hears or does not. Nor can you. Nice try though. Let's put it in context. If you read what I said, and I hope you're capable of extrapolation, the sonic qualities may/will be different - you choose what you like. Some people can tell the differences, while others can't. 5. Distill its contents, and you'll learn a little something that you can apply to life in general. I've distilled it. It tastes like cheap vodka. There's better stuff out there, Eric. Again, nice try. Cheap vodka, like most vodka, is another name for wood alcohol (methanol for those ignorant in rudimentary chemistry). Try changing spirits, it might help your obnoxious demeanor. 6. Remember, no sarcasm intended. People are influenced by their friends, what they read, and the impression that they try to make on others. Most are incapable of independendent thinking (I'm not saying that any of this applies to you). I agree with this. But then you go on to prove that you're one of the plastics you speak of.... Read, research, assess, gather opinions, and make a final decision. Sure, check with everyone else before you decide. But please be an independant thinker. Just sounds stupid to me. Part of the process of making an informed decision is to Once again you have not fully read that which I have written, to wit: a. If one is incapable of making a decision, and there are a lot of people who fit into this category, then by all means take a poll of what you should purchase. b. If you've done your research, then a peer review is in order (scientists employ this technique everyday - it can sometimes provide a new perspective). c. Now with two sources of information (independent assessment and peer review), make an informed decision. That wasn't so hard, or was it? 7. I believe a cease-fire is in order, and we can conduct future points of disagreement, no matter how silly they may seem to the other party, in an intelligent and cogent manner. Otherwise, this diatribe has come to an end. Your choice! |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 24 Registered: Jun-07 | To all: 1. What we have on this forum is a bunch of like-minded" intellects" who are incapable of reading, interpreting, or extrapolating that which has been written. 2. And that's why I keep coming back - where else can you these days experience a replica of Barnum and Bailey. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 25 Registered: Jun-07 | Nuck-nuck (are you a member of one of the the 3 stooges - the others are easily nameable): "A 17yr old Sony player and a receiver. Now I know why I listen to Eric's opinion so closely." 1. Hard to believe that we're still using electricity (yes, electricity is derived from coal (you know that hard black stuff that comes from the ground), oil (you know that black/brown liquid stuff that comes from the ground), and nuclear energy (you know that stuff that is derived from ore that comes from the ground). 2. And gees, how do we ever get around in those 50 year old jet plane engines? 3. It certainly couldn't be from "old technology", could it? 4. Now, if you would have made it past elementary school, you might, and that's an awfully big might, be able to apply reasoning in what you read, and draw some reasonable conclusions. Instead, you'd rather bunch together at an old lady's tea party, and have cucumber sandwiches. 5. Keep us up to date ladies. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 28 Registered: Jun-07 | Jan & the Rest: 1. I agree with you completely, if you can't hear the difference between CD players, buy the cheapest and most reliable. 2. And I can tell you first-hand, most people can't hear the difference in quality. 3. As for you, the only thing you can hear is a difference between players. You can't possibly say one is better than the other (unless the other is complete crap), because you don't have the source material playing in front of you. 4. That was the whole point of my argument, but apparently, most people are so caught up in themselves and snobbery, they couldn't possibly see past their noses. 5. In regards to the salesman, I am not about to argue with an ignorant, highly paid salesman who works on commission. 6. Do you argue with everyone you have a disagreement with, or are you intelligent enough to let some things "slide"? |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 29 Registered: Jun-07 | Jan Vigne: "Keep in mind he paid $1200 for a $698 pair of speakers in 1978." And you probably paid $6.00 for a bra complete with stuffing. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 30 Registered: Jun-07 | Jan & Others: Read this before going on with other diatribe, and it might calm your dispositions. 1. I agree with you completely, if you can't hear the difference between CD players, buy the cheapest and most reliable. 2. And I can tell you first-hand, most people can't hear the difference in quality. 3. As for you, the only thing you can hear is a difference between players. You can't possibly say one is better than the other (unless the other is complete crap), because you don't have the source material playing in front of you. 4. That was the whole point of my argument, but apparently, most people are so caught up in themselves and snobbery, they couldn't possibly see past their noses. 5. In regards to the salesman, I am not about to argue with an ignorant, highly paid salesman who works on commission. 6. Do you argue with everyone you have a disagreement with, or are you intelligent enough to let some things "slide"? |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 32 Registered: Jun-07 | Jan Vigne: "EG - You ain't winning the hearts and minds war." 1. I'm not one to brag or display credentials, because I loathe people of that ilk. Nonetheless I'm gonna' provide my credentials to substantiate that of which I speak: a. I have a BSc in Applied Mathematics & Physics b. I have a Masters in Atomic Physics c. I am self-taught in electronics d. I designed electro-optical gauges for 3 yrs, e. I have designed miliary equipment for 27 yrs. 2. My education and those people with whom I associate (all engineers), provide me the facility to analyse and think differently than those of you who were not brought up in an engineering environment. 3. That's why I don't get sucked up in glossy magazines or literature. 4. That's why I look at non-conventional stuff. 5. And lastly, I'm not here to "win the hearts and minds war" but rather to learn. If I was in desperate need of friends, I'd join a social club. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 702 Registered: Apr-06 | "I'm not one to brag or display credentials, because I loathe people of that ilk." Me too!! "a. I have a BSc in Applied Mathematics & Physics b. I have a Masters in Atomic Physics c. I am self-taught in electronics d. I designed electro-optical gauges for 3 yrs, e. I have designed miliary equipment for 27 yrs. " None of which makes you an authority on audio equipment. Have you designed any speakers? Have you designed any amplifiers? "My education and those people with whom I associate (all engineers), provide me the facility to analyse and think differently than those of you who were not brought up in an engineering environment. " Touching. Most who have gone to college have been taught to "think". "That's why I don't get sucked up in glossy magazines or literature. " I don't get caught up in such magazines either. However, you still have a good bit of learning to do. Some of that learning is in the art of diplomacy. "4. That's why I look at non-conventional stuff. " I wouldn't classify any of your equipment as "non-conventional". If you owned a set of Linkwitz Orions, that might be a different story. "5. And lastly, I'm not here to "win the hearts and minds war" but rather to learn. If I was in desperate need of friends, I'd join a social club." If you're trying to learn, than shut up and listen. If you want anybody to bother teaching you anything, show a little respect to others. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2212 Registered: Sep-04 | Eric, You still haven't answered my question. It was asked in good faith, and not meant to be an attack. In case you missed it earlier: I have a question for you. Do you ever listen to your system and enjoy listening to it? I don't mean have it on in the background while reading a book. I mean, do you ever decide you're going to play a piece of music, and do nothing but listen to it? And if you do, does the performance affect you in any way? I wonder, because the impression I get is that this is probably not the case. And it should be... Care to answer? Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 241 Registered: Dec-06 | Eric, You're a miracle. A dope, but miraculous nonetheless. All of those credentials, the haughty friends, all of the self taught electronic wisdom yet you can't figure out how to post your comments on a forum correctly? It's ok...this internet thing is very complicated. 3. As for you, the only thing you can hear is a difference between players. You can't possibly say one is better than the other (unless the other is complete crap), because you don't have the source material playing in front of you. You're still wrong, Eric. Have you ever been to a concert to hear live music, Einstein? Let's put it in context. If you read what I said, and I hope you're capable of extrapolation, the sonic qualities may/will be different - you choose what you like. Some people can tell the differences, while others can't. No, I believe what you said was...CD players are a scam - you couldn't tell a $200 unit from a $1,000 unit. I stand by my comment. No extrapolation required. I don't know that I've ever heard somebody more wrong about something on these forums. Ever. Look, Bozo, you made a comment that is just not true. I pointed it out. You're the one acting like a 13 year old and got offended. You say you came here to learn. You're comment was wrong. That's where the learning starts. I have not been offended. You've proven that your comments are not to be taken seriously. I think it has been agreed by all here that, yes, you can tell the difference between cd players. Except for you. There, you came to learn - now you did. That's free. You're welcome. And nobody gives two thin sh1ts about your credentials. Prima Donna with no audio experience whatsoever? One last question: Is it possible you're tone deaf? This could be one explaination for your original incorrect statement. Or Frank is correct in that you've never really sat down to honestly listen to your 17 year old deck and $1200 speakers. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2213 Registered: Sep-04 | Hey, I never said that! I asked the question, which is a very different thing. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 243 Registered: Dec-06 | Sorry Frank. I shouldn't have extrapolated. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 713 Registered: Apr-06 | I think he's realized that he's put his foot in his mouth, folks. I don't think you need to get too riled up yet. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4946 Registered: Feb-05 | "a. I have a BSc in Applied Mathematics & Physics b. I have a Masters in Atomic Physics c. I am self-taught in electronics d. I designed electro-optical gauges for 3 yrs, e. I have designed miliary equipment for 27 yrs." The only credential required in this hobby is the ability to hear and to listen...you appear to be lacking those. A friend of mine, who has been a dealer, service center, and high end mod specialist for over 40 years once said that his worst customers are engineers. They never trust what they hear. If they can't explain why they hear a difference then they discount it altogether. So much their loss. Living in a community dominated by a Hewlett Packard R&D facility and Oregon State University which has a large engineering school he has dealt with many such folk. Most of them, if they stick around and listen, realize that Jim forgets more audio knowledge in a day than they will ever acquire. But he will state clearly that all that he knows about audio matters not a bit. The best measuring device we have for audio lies on either side of our head. Some of us hear better than others but even more importantly some of us know how to listen, and what to listen for. Not very complicated after all. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2214 Registered: Sep-04 | OK stryvn, no problem. Stephen, I'm not riled, just genuinely interested. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 719 Registered: Apr-06 | Wasn't referring to your statements Frank. It was largely directed to stryvn, and anyone else who might be reading and ready to pounce. |
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Gold Member Username: Thx_3417Bournemouth ... Post Number: 3953 Registered: May-05 | Reading the top post I believe the Urei 62 series 6260 and 6290 where approved by Lucasfilm for THX installations.  Now I've recently installed Alesis RA300 and with my aging but still working and I'm sure there vintage Marartz x1 1030 and x2 1050 they do give a good bass response and treble stereo separation is also good for an amplifier that is over 20 years old. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7606 Registered: Dec-04 | Coon, you bored, shopping over here? |
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Bronze Member Username: ShawnharmanPost Number: 83 Registered: Dec-05 | is this eric Another Jim bob? Im starting to think so, thinking that he is better than everyone, gee eric, how does that military equipment you designed sound with some good speakers hooked up to it?? don't start judging us, I to am self taught in electronics and attending Devry university for electronics engineering to further my learning, and I can even tell a difference in sound between something like a Sony and a Nad cd player. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7610 Registered: Dec-04 | Strike him! Strike him, Beaky! Strike him! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10598 Registered: May-04 | . EG - OK, you've officially lost the hearts and minds of all concerned. Might I suggest though, if you are here to learn, this ain't the way to go about it. Credentials don't mean crap if you still sound dumb; and at the moment, you do. My advice, which I'm sure you won't take and you will have some snappy retort to, is settle down, settle back and take it easy. No one has done well when they come in trying to prove everyone else around here is an idiot. You'll get a little respect when you show it to others, not by demanding you deserve it because of a piece of paper that says you went somewhere or did something. You'll be welcomed if you just turn the volume down. If not, you won't last long around here. . |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 45 Registered: Jun-07 | Jan Vigne: I believe that you've provided your own share of rude remarks, and because I'm not part of your "party" group, is no further reason to accelerate the intensity of those remarks. Anyone can choose the side of the highway they wish to traverse. Now that's the past, and for the sake of arguement, I'll plead guilty and confrontational, although I don't believe this to be the case in every instance. So, here's the new proposition, no hooks attached other than intelligence and humour are prerequsites. This informtion doesn't apply to you or anyone else per se, but I am providing it as an explanatory addendum: 1.I had triple by-pass surgeory two months ago, and for the most part, am doing quite well (right now I'd be better off by myself with a 1/5 of JD, or JB). 2.There is nothing secretive about this information, but is merely being provided to describe my demeanour as of late, and is not expected to encourage any kind of sympathy (otherwise, you're gonna' cause a triple by-pass on the other side). 3.Because I have apparently generated so many of these confrontational "out-of-line" replies, I won't have the time to fix them all. 4.Accordingly, if you run across a post where you think I've been "out of line", I would be appreciative if you would reference this post, or summarised it in a paragraph (I know secretarial time is low on your priority list). If you don't have the time, and I understand, I believe everything will 'fix' itself in due course. Here's a a sample of my regimen: a. since then, I've been told when to wake, what pills to consume, what to eat and the portions, when to take my walks, where and how far to walk, and when to rest and sleep b. which pills to take at lunch, what to eat and the portions to eat for lunch, when to take my luncheon walks, where and how far to walk, when to rest and sleep c. same goes for super d. cut the grass e. walk the dog f. get the groceries g. make sure the car is maintained and the bills paid h don't consume tabacco, alcohol, or a joint Do I get peeved - you bet. But this is strictly my problem, and I should not be taking it out on ANYONE. However, as it turns out, there have been ocassions where innocent bystanders fall prey to these bullying tactics. For that, I apologise, and insure that occurences of that nature will cease. But that's not to say skirmishes won't occur. For now, I hope you realise that I have not absolved myself of any guilt, but at least clarified the mitigating circumstances. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 46 Registered: Jun-07 | stryvn: "CD players are a scam - you couldn't tell a $200 unit from a $1,000 unit. I don't know that I've ever heard somebody more wrong about something on these forums. Ever" How about you trying to make an intelligent comment? |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 246 Registered: Dec-06 | Admit it Eric...it was an idiotic thing to say. You'll feel better. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 247 Registered: Dec-06 | Woe is me |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 48 Registered: Jun-07 | Nick K: "hmmmmm. Well I too, started out with a Sony CD Player...I upgraded to a NAD cd player, and on the same speakers, same receiver, same volume level. There was a H U G E difference in sound quality, bass, and air volume pushed through out my room. The DAC's in higher quality cd players makes for a big difference. Yes I agree, some people, like my mom,might not notice a diffence, but I sure did. Even my future wife was blown away by the difference, and she is into shoes, not audio. Cheers." Sounds like your wife is qualified to buy the speakers, while your talents lie in buying shoes - do you fancy pumps, or have you changed styles yet? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7611 Registered: Dec-04 | Eric, screw the doc, light a joint. Harmless, and moderates the heartrate. You will be fine here, so long as you re-read JV's last post(likely the last friendly hint from Vigne). Yes, there are cliques, just like anywhere else on the forum scene, but this bunch seems different somehow. Is it your opinion that all cdp's are the same, and if so, have you heard several players on an A/B basis? Or, in following the section, have you A/B'd a few amplifiers lately? My Classe and my Rotel amps are varied in presentation, and not by a small margain. Mend well, have a toke and open your ears instead of a book, perhaps. Not everything that can be measured matters, and everything that matters cannot always be measured-Sig Freud(I think he was stoned). |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 49 Registered: Jun-07 | stryvn: "I say speakers are a scam. You couldn't tell the difference between a $698 speaker and the same speaker priced at $500 higher." I could if I bought them where you bought yours. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 249 Registered: Dec-06 | Or if you'd get your head out of your woeful @ss and listen |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 50 Registered: Jun-07 | From Eric Gracka: I have posted 3 E-mails to this effect which I am trying to locate, but I don't think I'm going to waste my time since they won't be read: 1. E-Mail 1 - Sony vs. Denon 2. E-Mail 2 - Krell/Linn/NAD System 3. E-Mail 3 - General Arguement (this one) Jan & the Rest: You just plain don't listen. I've posted 3 E-mails to this effect which have been ignored. How you and your compatriots find arrogance in this, defies logic. I suppose anything that scrapes the grain is construed as mutiny. I have better chosen words for you and your group, but I think I'll keep them to myself, and find a forum where the members have IQs larger than their shoe sizes - shouldn't be too hard, but it's certainly a challenge here. It's a good thing that none of you ever pursued science - I think Zellers suits you more. Best Regards Eric G. "1. I agree with you completely, if you can't hear the difference between CD players, buy the cheapest and most reliable. 2. And I can tell you first-hand, most people can't hear the difference in quality. 3. As for you, the only thing you can hear is a difference between players. You can't possibly say one is better than the other (unless the other is complete crap), because you don't have the source material playing in front of you. 4. That was the whole point of my argument, but apparently, most people are so caught up in themselves and snobbery, they couldn't possibly see past their noses. 5. In regards to the salesman, I am not about to argue with an ignorant, highly paid salesman who works on commission. 6. Do you argue with everyone you have a disagreement with, or are you intelligent enough to let some things "slide"?" |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 251 Registered: Dec-06 | Goodbye |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7614 Registered: Dec-04 | Eric(I know who you are), I have re-read your posts and have determined that you are either Wiley or Edster. You gave it away with a post to Jan. We got another troll, people. Strike him, Beaky!Strike him! |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 252 Registered: Dec-06 | He sure did move in and leave quite the body of work in just under 6 days. Real Wiley-ish. I wonder if he'll include this in his ever impressive resume at the next forum he decides to enlighten with his narcissistic yet contradictory rambling. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7617 Registered: Dec-04 | Stryvn, we are wasting out time with Eric. There are more posters here to berate with more brains than this dude(or dudess, don't know). Damn, but the effort of the forum is drawn to morons as much as reasonable posters asking questions. Eric(if you are still reading), STFU and learn. I have papers too, but do not profess to know all. If you do know all, then be smart enough to STFU and post something useful, rather tan spout cause it's free. Capish? Copastetic? I have no idea on the spelling of those, corrections thankfully accepted. See? It's as easy as 1-2-3, Jacksons in my head. I'll blame Eric. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10606 Registered: May-04 | . "In regards to the salesman, I am not about to argue with an ignorant, highly paid salesman who works on commission." The salesperson appreciates that and wishes you would just leave 'cause you ain't gonna buy nothing either. There's a punchline here, somewhere? Right? Something that makes all this make sense? Right? Can anyone explain the 1-2-3 emails to me? I didn't see any email links. I don't accept emails through the forum. Did our little friend finally take a toke? Is he high, or what? None of this makes any sense. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7624 Registered: Dec-04 | J, the a-b-c is easy as 1-2-3. Think Jackson 5. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 254 Registered: Dec-06 | I don't know what the hell he's talking about either....I didn't get no e-mails. I was just as confused by it, Jan. I think there might actually be a few people living in Eric Gracka. Sibyl. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7627 Registered: Dec-04 | OK, all 4 of us are out of this train wreck. All of my opinions, and personalities. |
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Bronze Member Username: ShawnharmanPost Number: 84 Registered: Dec-05 | do you think eric and jim bob might be the same person?? they both seem to have the same kind of attitude. they have both seemed to attack Jan. and of course everyone else here too. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7631 Registered: Dec-04 | Attacking Jan is old hat Shawn, the payback is too severe to last for long. Jan will twist your words, twist your meanings and twist your head just for laffs, it's a no win. Vigne will also twist your head with data, value and concepts that will twist your head. Odd animal. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 51 Registered: Jun-07 | Frank Abela Eric: "I have a question for you. Do you ever listen to your system and enjoy listening to it? I don't mean have it on in the background while reading a book. I mean, do you ever decide you're going to play a piece of music, and do nothing but listen to it? And if you do, does the performance affect you in any way? I wonder, because the impression I get is that this is probably not the case. And it should be..." Regards, Frank. Frank: I listen to my system, on avaerage, about 1.5 hours per day, while lying on the couch. And I do nothing else but just listen. Unortunately, the room is "L-shaped", which is not conducive to the "experience". The speakers are separated by about 12' and located about 1' from an exterior wall (rather than 3' to 6' as they should be). The couch sits against same said wall. So what do I have is a shitty setup for listening, and I"m not about to rip down the house to change my listeneing environment. Instead of using the speakers, I use headphones (Senheisser 600's),most of the time, which some people may agree, are far superior to virtually any speaker system conceived - you just need to get used to them. I'll admit that I miss the ambient noise (screaming wife and children, barking dog, neigbour's lawnmower, and the outside traffic), but currently, it's the best I got, and it works for me. I hope this answers the question to your satisfaction. Helpful suggestions are appreciated. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 52 Registered: Jun-07 | Eric Gracka: Jan, here's another post that I wrote that you and your intelligensia crowd neglected to directly acknowledge. "1. First I'll tell you a little story. I was in an Ottawa Audio Shop doing an A/B test between a $500 NAD receiver and a $1000 NAD C370 Integrated Amp, which eventually sold for $750. I forget the CD player, speakers and CD that I listened to (speakers were probably Energy or Polk). 2. Test A (the receiver) - Sounds fine. 3. Test B (the integrated amp) - Sounds fine - can't tell the difference. 4. Salesman says "The difference is pretty obvious isn't it). I nod yes. 5. Both systems sound identical after volume adjustment. 6. I buy the C370's because I don't use a tuner, and the C370 probably has better components (according to what I've read). 7. Well then, take the A/B test. One amp, two CD players, ensuring they are adjusted to equivalent volume. Make sure you check all the interconnects (not that salesmen are known to be less than reputable). 8. I did a test between a $200 Sony, and a $1,000 Denon using optical O/Ps. I didn't know which system I was listeneing to. All I can say is that the two systems sounded minutely differently, and I gave the edge to the Sony (no I'm not a Sony rep). It's still the same Sony I have after 17 years (with no repairs, or peculiarities). 9. Moral of the story: people perceive sound differently, and for CD players, most of which will always be listened to as background music, choose a mid-priced, high quality one, because the only thing you're going to be able to say between what you compare is that "they sound different". You're not going to be able to say "the sonic qualities between these two players is "night 'n day". To me personally, it demonstrates the difference between a $200 Sony system, and a $1000 Denon system. Now I either A/B'd the wrong system, or it demonstrates very little difference in brand-name quality. And I suppose that many of you fall into the latter category. But I suppose that such an admission would embarass the hell out of you glossy-mag readers. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 53 Registered: Jun-07 | David Mitchell Eric, which Ottawa audio shop were you in? Now that would be telling - pick a shop on Merivale/Cylde, that was recently downsized in volume, by a factor of two. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 256 Registered: Dec-06 | Welcome back, Bozo. It was addressed several times and discounted based on it's stupidity. You think you listened to something. You lied to a salesman because you are, after all, morally and intellectually on higher ground than any saleman could ever be. You don't know what you were listening to. That was 17 years ago. You perceive no sound at all (or something like that). You believe that everybody that buys a cd player does so because they need more background music in their life. You overpaid for speakers in 1978. But this is the real Eric Gracka gem...CD players are a scam - you couldn't tell a $200 unit from a $1,000 unit. Beautiful. And what the hell does Pl@yboy have to do with this? |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 721 Registered: Apr-06 | "8. I did a test between a $200 Sony, and a $1,000 Denon using optical O/Ps." Thats the problem! To actually compare the players capabilities/sound, you need to use their analog outputs. Otherwise you're just comparing their abilities as transports, which should be relatively non-existent. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 54 Registered: Jun-07 | Eric Gracka Jan & the Rest: Jan, apparentlty you neglected this one too - sloppy girl! For such an opinionated women, you surprise me. Or do you choose battles where you have the concensus of your cohorts, and believe that the prey will be an easy kill? "1. I agree with you completely, if you can't hear the difference between CD players, buy the cheapest and most reliable. 2. And I can tell you first-hand, most people can't hear the difference in quality. 3. As for you, the only thing you can hear is a difference between players. You can't possibly say one is better than the other (unless the other is complete crap), because you don't have the source material playing in front of you. 4. That was the whole point of my argument, but apparently, most people are so caught up in themselves and snobbery, they couldn't possibly see past their noses. 5. In regards to the salesman, I am not about to argue with an ignorant, highly paid salesman who works on commission. 6. Do you argue with everyone you have a disagreement with, or are you intelligent enough to let some things "slide"?" |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 257 Registered: Dec-06 | oh boy. I believe I may have stepped on toes. My apologies. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4963 Registered: Feb-05 | Calm down Eric you're gonna bust a gasket or somethin'. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10609 Registered: May-04 | . EG - I don't really know why you feel you must address me personally since I've said very little in his whole affair. It makes me feel you have some very deep seated anger issues. You are undoubtedly an odd, ugly duckling. Let's see if numerical order lets you understand anything more clearly since you seem to love enumeration and enumerating. 1) You come in here kicking and screaming that all of us are ignorant and only you have the knowledge required to put together a truly decent audio system and then proceed to prove over and over again that you don't have a clue and couldn't buy one if your life did depend upon it because no salesperson will spend five minutes with you. 2) If the salesperson does try to demonstrate products, you are ignorant to the demonstration process and lie to get out from having to tell the salesperson you can't hear any improvements. (A clear moral victory over that nasty, dishonest salesperson.) 2a) You are a worm. 2b) You are a liar and a worm. 2c) You are an ignorant liar and an even more ignorant worm. 2d) I'm afraid I have offend the worms of the world. 3) You are obnoxious, rude and wholly misinformed. 4) You pay no attention to what is posted and then scream we are not paying attention to something you haven't posted. 4a) Which is incredible since you post everything three times. Saves the ol' brain power, eh? 5) There is some cockamamy story about heart surgery and that while this isn't an excuse for your rude behavior we should consider it when we draw conclusions regarding your rude behavior. (Lucky us, none of us ever had a bad day in our life. Poor little EG. I can understand why he turned into a total piece of crap as a human being.) 6) You say you'll not be rude again and then turn right around and be even more repugnant than in previous posts. 7) Your repetition of items appears to be based upon some misguided belief that repeating things several times will make them true. 8) Your repetition of items appears to be based upon some misguided belief that repeating things several times will make them true. 9) Your repetition of items appears to be based upon some misguided belief that repeating things several times will make them true. 9a) Annoying, isn't it? 10) You have the logic processing abilities of a house fly. 11) No one gives a damn about your story of how you didn't audition equipment. 12) Most of all, you said you were going away. And now this! Why did you come here? Why are you still here? And what is your reason for being here? You claimed you came to learn. Is this your way of learning something? How many times were you told to change your personality before you ended up in the hospital? You, sir, are a psychopath and a sociopath. I realize that is redundant but in this case, it applies. Why are you (still) here? Why do you repeat everything? . |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 55 Registered: Jun-07 | Eric: 1. "You're a miracle. A dope, but miraculous nonetheless." So was Jesus, but don't draw any inferences - now learn from me my son. 2. "All of those credentials, the haughty friends, all of the self taught electronic wisdom yet you can't figure out how to post your comments on a forum correctly? It's ok...this internet thing is very complicated." If the Internet is complicated and you're having trouble, there's always "Internet for Dummies". After the attendant looks at you, he might even give you a discount. 3. "As for you, the only thing you can hear is a difference between players. You can't possibly say one is better than the other (unless the other is complete crap), because you don't have the source material playing in front of you." "You're still wrong, Eric. Have you ever been to a concert to hear live music, Einstein? " a, In regards to the 1st point, you're absolutely correct! b. I've attended a few concerts, and what do you hear, is 120 dB of noise. Save yourself a lot of money, buy the cleaned up CD, and invest the rest of the money in a joint. Off course, you could do it even cheaper. Drive out to the airport, and listen to a 747 take off - you might get 140 dB. I'll bet you'll be wetting your pants all the way home. 4. "Let's put it in context. If you read what I said, and I hope you're capable of extrapolation, the sonic qualities may/will be different - you choose what you like. Some people can tell the differences, while others can't." Right again, you must have finished a bottle of JD before you posted, intelligence is creeping out. 5. "No, I believe what you said was...CD players are a scam - you couldn't tell a $200 unit from a $1,000 unit." I some cases this is true (see the Sony vs. Denon post). I stand by my comment. No extrapolation required. I don't know that I've ever heard somebody more wrong about something on these forums. Ever. Look, Bozo, you made a comment that is just not true. I pointed it out. You're the one acting like a 13 year old and got offended. You say you came here to learn. You're comment was wrong. That's where the learning starts. 6. "I have not been offended. You've proven that your comments are not to be taken seriously. I think it has been agreed by all here that, yes, you can tell the difference between cd players. Except for you. There, you came to learn - now you did. That's free." You can tell the difference between a $200 CDP and a $1000 CDP, in some instances. You're welcome. 7. And nobody gives two thin sh1ts about your credentials. Prima Donna with no audio experience whatsoever? My credentials demonstrate that unlike you, I'm not guaranteed to work at Zellers, (or if you upgrade your skills, Radio Shack), for the rest of my life. 8. "One last question: Is it possible you're tone deaf? This could be one explaination for your original incorrect statement. Or Frank is correct in that you've never really sat down to honestly listen to your 17 year old deck and $1200 speakers." "I'm deaf, dumb and blind, but I can sure play a pinball machine" At the lower-end, I can feel earthquakes, while at the higher end I can hear the shrieks of my wife. Now, that's what's known as a sound meter. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 56 Registered: Jun-07 | Eric Gracka: Still haven't answered to this "old technology" stuff. You possibly couldn't be stuck for am answer. "A 17yr old Sony player and a receiver. Now I know why I listen to Eric's opinion so closely." 1. Hard to believe that we're still using electricity (yes, electricity is derived from coal (you know that hard black stuff that comes from the ground), oil (you know that black/brown liquid stuff that comes from the ground), and nuclear energy (you know that stuff that is derived from ore that comes from the ground). 2. And gees, how do we ever get around in those 50 year old jet plane engines? 3. It certainly couldn't be from "old technology", could it? 4. Now, if you would have made it past elementary school, you might, and that's an awfully big might, be able to apply reasoning in what you read, and draw some reasonable conclusions. Instead, you'd rather bunch together at an old lady's tea party, and have cucumber sandwiches. 5. Keep us up to date ladies. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10613 Registered: May-04 | . Fifty six posts and not a one of them that makes sense or is pleasant to read. He's going for Dorkboy's record. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 57 Registered: Jun-07 | Art: "Calm down Eric you're gonna bust a gasket or somethin'. Three gaskets have been busted - I'm working on fixing them. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 260 Registered: Dec-06 | Die you gravy sucking pig. |
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Silver Member Username: DmitchellOttawa, Ontario Canada Post Number: 136 Registered: Feb-07 | This is getting interesting. Can't say I'm learning anything. Oh well.... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4971 Registered: Feb-05 | Oh I think you're learning plenty David. You're just gentleman enough not to say what. |
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Silver Member Username: StryvnPost Number: 261 Registered: Dec-06 | Now, in regards to your last post to me, Bozo. Is that the best your venemous tongue could do? I somehow expected more from all that bragging. #1 & #2 ( I love this numbering thing by the way. If only you could keep track of what you've said and what others have said. This is where I believe I am talking to 4 or 5 different people residing in dumb Eric at once) - How old are you, twelve? #3 - That's your statement. Not mine. I disagree with it. #3b - You're a miracle. But your comment here kind of explains your original idiotic comment about cd players. #4 Again, your statement. Not mine. I believe you're one of those that can't tell the difference. I don't hold that against you. JD is SWILL.....the fact that this is your reference I do hold against you. JD is for glossy magazine readers. You oughta get out more. #5 & #6- You're getting closer to liberation. Admit the statement was stupid. You'll feel better. #7 - I also work in engineering. Don't you feel dirty now? #8 - You should find another hobby, Eric. You're not getting this at all. But I do understand why your wife screams at you. You're pretty thick, dude. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10614 Registered: May-04 | . " ... I do understand why your wife screams at you. You're pretty thick, dude." And the ace goes to stryvn. EG has double faulted on numerous ocassions. What game is EG playing? . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7633 Registered: Dec-04 | We know that EG is someone close to the forum, the use of numerics is a toss-off. OK players, who is EG? Guess quick! I am not bothering with this fuker anymore, and he can read my profile to find out why.I can kill time without this troll. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 58 Registered: Jun-07 | stryvn "Hey Eric: I see in your profile you have a "no-name Sony cd player"............Which is it? I also see after your "no-name Sony" cdp you have "(soon to be upgraded)". How could you possibly "upgrade" your cdp when there is no discernable difference between a $200 cdp and a $1000 cdp? Engineer?" 1. You know stryvn, I've never experienced a male have such a fascination with another male - you just never give up. I was hoping that you'd give it up after a while, but that hasn't happemned - you're relentless. Well, I'm gonna' come straight out and tell ya, "I'm not one of those back-door boys". There are places all over town that cater to 'fellas' of your ilk. Try some downtown bars, or even the phonebook. I think if you change your demeanor, you're gonna find the perfect partner (you will be the 'male' won't you). Now we've cleared that little misunderstanding up, on with it: 2. I've changed my mind, it's gonna' be a turntable. 3. It'll probably be a Thorens or B&O (78 rpm platter I suspect). 4. Engineer, you bet - locomotive. How about you, shovel much coal in these babies, or are you a porter? |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 59 Registered: Jun-07 | stryvn "Hey Eric: I see in your profile you have a "no-name Sony cd player"............Which is it? I also see after your "no-name Sony" cdp you have "(soon to be upgraded)". How could you possibly "upgrade" your cdp when there is no discernable difference between a $200 cdp and a $1000 cdp? Engineer?" 1. You know stryvn, I've never experienced a male have such a fascination with another male - you just never give up. I was hoping that you'd give it up after a while, but that hasn't happemned - you're relentless. Well, I'm gonna' come straight out and tell ya, "I'm not one of those back-door boys". There are places all over town that cater to 'fellas' of your ilk. Try some downtown bars, or even the phonebook. I think if you change your demeanor, you're gonna find the perfect partner (you will be the 'male' won't you). Now we've cleared that little misunderstanding up, on with it: 2. I've changed my mind, it's gonna' be a turntable. 3. It'll probably be a Thorens or B&O (78 rpm platter I suspect). 4. Engineer, you bet - locomotive. How about you, shovel much coal in these babies, or are you a porter? |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 60 Registered: Jun-07 | Adam: "Sorry guys, I was trying to send him back but he dummied me and ran past" Sounds like an autistic child could dummy you - no offense to the autistic, the Forum seems to be full of them. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 61 Registered: Jun-07 | Jan Vigne: "EG - You ain't winning the hearts and minds war." The "heart's war" I could care less about, and the "mind's war" ( with a couple of exceptions), well, it just doesn't seem to exist in this Forum". |
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Bronze Member Username: TomaccoCarp, ON Canada Post Number: 62 Registered: Jun-07 | Stephen Munz 1. "I'm not one to brag or display credentials, because I loathe people of that ilk." "Me too!!" Congratulations, you're one of the few! "a. I have a BSc in Applied Mathematics & Physics b. I have a Masters in Atomic Physics c. I am self-taught in electronics d. I designed electro-optical gauges for 3 yrs, e. I have designed miliary equipment for 27 yrs." "None of which makes you an authority on audio equipment." I have never claimed to be an authority on audio equipment, have I So why did you bring the subject up? "Have you designed any speakers? Have you designed any amplifiers?" I have never designed, a speaker. I have designed a 600V tube RF oscillator to excite cesium atoms in a vacuum. So why did you bring the subject up? "My education and those people with whom I associate (all engineers), provide me the facility to analyse and think differently than those of you who were not brought up in an engineering environment. " Touching. Most who have gone to college have been taught to "think". Pointless comments like "touching" aren't called for. I don't believe I treat you in that manner so why do you do the same to me?. Employ some of that diplomacy that you elude to further down. I don't know which school you attended, but most students who have gone to college are flunkies, whose primary skill was how to drink, copy other people's assignments, and cheat on exams. College or university does not teach you to think; it provides you with the tools and techniques to do analysis. "That's why I don't get sucked up in glossy magazines or literature. " I don't get caught up in such magazines either. However, you still have a good bit of learning to do. Some of that learning is in the art of diplomacy. I'll be the 1st to acknowledge that I have a great deal of learning to do. Your definition of diplomacy and mine may differ. There is a great difference between diplomacy and stating unambiguously, your thoughts. Diplomacy is for spinelless people who don't have the courage to state in a non-caustic fashion, what's on their minds. They will go to any lengths to indirectly address an issue. On the other hand, you can state your thoughts in a straight-forward way, without offending most people. The problem occurs when you're explaining something, and some has already mentally finished your thoughts with their own, which is completely different than what you were going to say. The other problem is when someone reads half a paragraph, and again creates their own conclusions. Although I can't confirm this, I would bet that my latter point happens on this Forum all the time. That's where the conflict is caused. "4. That's why I look at non-conventional stuff. " I wouldn't classify any of your equipment as "non-conventional". If you owned a set of Linkwitz Orions, that might be a different story. In 1978, Klipsch was considered non-conventional, and by all measures today, except for some knowledgeable people, horns are still considered non-conventional. That's indisputable. I bought Klipsch because they had an spl= 94 dB, while the conventional speaker had an spl = 85 dB. That means that for any given power level greater than 85 dB, my speakers were twice as loud as the conventinal speaker. To get twice the loudness requires ten times the power. Back then, a 100wpc amp was expensive, so you can imagine what a 1000 wpc amp would have cost. This shows that if you put some smarts up front, you save down the line. Twenty years ago I owned a Harmon Kardon receiver, which finally broke down. After a week's research, I concluded that the NAD C370 was best value for money. Tell me why a piece of audio equipment has to be non-conventional to represent good value. Any idiot can buy a $15,000 Krell, or a $30,000 Linn. Show me the value per dollar. That's what Engineering is based on, provided that it meets its technical requirements. That's the difference between an Engineer, and a consumer who has more money than brains. "5. And lastly, I'm not here to "win the hearts and minds war" but rather to learn. If I was in desperate need of friends, I'd join a social club." If you're trying to learn, than shut up and listen. If you want anybody to bother teaching you anything, show a little respect to others. You learn by listening and asking questions, not sitting there like a piece of furniture sucking in every piece of information that's provided to you. I've listened, and I'm doing my own research on the Net. I've shown respect where I've been given respect, and I can count on one hand, the number of people that have done that. You incidentally aren't one of them. You have little knowledge, nothing of technical value to offer, ask meaningless and unrelated questions, and then top it off with a rude mouth. This I think is where you should employ some of that diplomacy you were lecturing me on. Best Regards Eric G. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10616 Registered: May-04 | . Blah, blah, blah. More inanities from EG. This thread has gone too sh!t all because of EG. Thank you, sir, you've successfully hijacked your first thread as EG. How many have you done before this? I too have had my fill of EG. I come here to discuss audio and this is not it. I would encourage everyone to leave EG behind. If he wishes to discuss audio on a realistic basis where we debate and discuss various topics related to audio, that's fine with me. I am not interested in his laundry lists of illogical and regurgitated sputum that only serve to confuse the issues at hand. Learn to read, sir, then try thinking before you engage your fingers. If EG wants to buy speakers only judging their efficiency and no more, so be it. It is his perogative but not mine. I'm all for efficient speakers and have said so many times on the forum. However, the speaker must sound good also and judging horns designed in 1966 to be "unconventional" in 1985 while decrying the sound and volume at live concerts is a bit beyond the pale. It is akin to killing roaches with a hammer. EG, to think you've shown respect to anyone on this forum is not only ludicrous, it is insane. To think you did not encourage every bit of rudeness directed toward you is rudeness and stupidity personified. You've shown no one here anything other than your backside from the moment you entered the discussion. Goodbye. For now. I'm certain you'll show up on the forum once again. Trolls do that and you, sir, are a troll. I can only hope you calm down before you burst wide open on this forum. This is not the place you should be with your attitude toward all things not in agreement with your own small and ugly opinions of others. If you wish to discuss something on a rational basis, I'll be happy to accommodate you. But not at twenty items per post and not when you can only repeat and repeat nonsensical retorts to that which I am trying to discuss. Learn some manners for God's sake! . |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomVienna, VA United States Post Number: 722 Registered: Apr-06 | "You have little knowledge, nothing of technical value to offer, ask meaningless and unrelated questions, and then top it off with a rude mouth. This I think is where you should employ some of that diplomacy you were lecturing me on. " Seems to me that I've already taught you something, given that you thought the reason people buy thicker wire is because they have more powerful amplifiers. But if you choose to be a jackass, that is your own problem. I see no reason to bother with you any longer. |
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Silver Member Username: GavdawgUpstate, New York Post Number: 713 Registered: Nov-06 | whenever JBJ ends his posting, we have a troll pop up. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1081 Registered: May-05 | WEll, That was a good waste of an hour of work time. I thought I was going to learn something BUT I DID'T . . . Can I talk about how smart I am about many things and how stupid I am about audio for 105 posts? |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10833 Registered: May-04 | . Proves you should always read the last post first. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7961 Registered: Dec-04 | Unless it is mine. |
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