Panasonic A/V SAXR57 DefTech ProCinema 60
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 65 Registered: Mar-06 | Is this acceptable combination for HT? $1200 canadian After upgrating living room audio (Arro/Arcam AVR280)my HT sounds terible. I have 5y old panasonic all in one HT with 5 dvd changer and replaced 2 front panasonic speakers with 2 Sound Dynamics RTS-1 bookshelf and added SD RTS-800 sub. I will try to sell all this and get something better but it will not be anything like living room. a 1000-1200 would be top limit and probably in fall. Thanks Pablo |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4741 Registered: Feb-05 | I would buy any other receiver but a Panasonic, they sound horrible. |
|
New member Username: KillamabillaClear Lake, TX USA Post Number: 1 Registered: May-07 | I disagree. My sister has the Pansonic (older xr55) with Paradigm Monitor 5s all around and it sounds great. Even a little better than the Yamaha 2600 I used to have. Not the easiest to use but surprisingly good. Decent 2-channel music too as long as you use the coaxial or optical. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7300 Registered: Dec-04 | Pablo, I presume the HT is in a different room/different floor? |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4759 Registered: Feb-05 | I listened to the Panny vs an HK and even the folks in the store laughed when I swithced back and forth between the HK and Panny. Human voices were so bad on the Panny that it was very hard to believe it was possible. Again, to each his own. |
|
New member Username: KillamabillaClear Lake, TX USA Post Number: 7 Registered: May-07 | Art, I think there is a good chance that your store just had a defective model. Panasonic like Rega makes great products but their QA can be spotty sometimes. My sister's Panasonic sounded great with voices, in movies and also in music. It even reminded me a little of the Prima Luna tube amp I used to own. |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4763 Registered: Feb-05 | I listened to the 55 more than once and at more than one place...it stinks in my opinion. I was just citing one incident. I probably feel stronger about that one piece of gear than any other I've ever listened to. There are actually quite a number of us here who feel the same way. However to be fair there were a couple of fans as well. The difference being that the fans seldom if ever listened to live music and most of the detractors listened to live music often. It also became quite clear that the Panny performed much differently when driving a moderately difficult load. I listened to it driving several speakers including PSB, Cabasse, and Jamo...it didn't perform well with any of them...guess they are difficult loads....nah. |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1845 Registered: May-05 | I had one in my home for about 2 weeks. Connected to PSB Image T55s, listening to nothing but music. I'm not trying to sound the wrong way her, but it was awful to my ears. As Art pointed out, the worst thing was voices. Imaging wasn't very good either. I wanted to like it. My main goal was to demo it, and get a new one for my brother for Christmas if it sounded good. I ended up giving him my old NAD 304 integrated amp instead. I had a thread here a long time ago about it. What sums it up best IMO is when I said the XR55 made my NAD 320BEE sound like a McIntosh in direct comparison. I have nothing against anyone who likes it. Its just not for me. |
|
New member Username: KillamabillaClear Lake, TX USA Post Number: 8 Registered: May-07 | Interesting. I guess it just goes to show how subjective this hobby truly is. I have been actively involved with live music for most of my adult life, but have a very different experience with this product. The T-amp I have now is more layered to my ears though. "Go listen for yourself" again proves its value. |
|
Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4765 Registered: Feb-05 | Ahh the T-amp now that's another matter. We have some pretty good ears here who have T-amps. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7306 Registered: Dec-04 | I have the original, used in close listening with inefficient single driver speaks. A Tri-path amp of 20 real watts would do wonders. Red Wine? |
|
New member Username: Lde099Post Number: 1 Registered: May-07 | It's so weird how the xr55s generates so many heated opinions that are completely opposed to each other. Usually there will be a general concensus about whether a piece of equipment sounds good or not, but with the xr55s, opinions are all over the map. There are people who say it sounds better than equipment costing many times more and there are people who say it sounds worse than anything else they've ever heard. Ecoustics, in particular, seems to have a high concentration of people who think it sounds horrible. Just throwing this out there but, to the people who found it to sound horrible: are you sure you had all the settings optimized? I remember, on another forum someone was reviewing a Pioneer receiver (I think it was the 1015) and said it sounded horrible. Another owner of that receiver pointed out the reviewer might have had some sound alteration setting left on. The reviewer confirmed and then corrected this and said it was like "a veil/haze had been lifted" or something. Here's an interesting post at the ascendacoustics forums: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=14415&postcount=18 |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 7322 Registered: Dec-04 | The Panny got a bit of a rough start here withone member in particular pushing the thing as the greatest thing since sliced kielbasa. It left a bad ringing in a lot of ears to be sure, but warranted enough interest to test and listen. I did both, in an established listening environment, as did Art and a number of others. I found the product to be thin, a bit shrill and rather mechanical in presentation. But very affordable, if that is a consideration to anyone. Dreadful would be my assessment. Now, I can post links to fan clubs everywhere, like Eddie did, but please note: Edster has backed away from his initial enthusiasm. It could be exposure to better times, beter gear or better Karma, who knows? |
|
New member Username: KillamabillaClear Lake, TX USA Post Number: 9 Registered: May-07 | JSK makes some great points. Also I get the impression that the Panasonic can have dismal results with certain speakers. Maybe impedance swings come into play. Plus there are people who love certain sound characteristics to the exclusion of others. I used to love crisp, forward sound for example. Now I lean more towards warm and laid-back. But there are no "right" or "wrong" answers. Just different strokes for different folks. As Nuck said, the Panasonic does warrant hearing for yourself no matter what your final assessment might be. For HT it is truly a steal, if you can live with the relative low number of bells and whistles. |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 66 Registered: Mar-06 | hi I was off for a while - Nuck - yes this is downstairs where my tv is so I can not use Arcam  I have $200 store credit at StereoPlus and want to upgrate HT. I have hitachi ulravision 51SWX20 tv and panasonic all in one HT SC-HT80. 4 years ago tv was $4500 and HT - $1000 so it was a bit of the money at the time!. Just replaced 2 front speakers with Sound Dynamics bookshelfs RTS-1 bookshelf and added SD RTS-800. This improved the sound but.... There is no way I can put another Arcam in basement so I have to work with 1000-1200 max. If not panasonic receiver then what receiver would be good for these speakers? I was told that they power hungry so.. |
|
New member Username: KillamabillaClear Lake, TX USA Post Number: 10 Registered: May-07 | Pablo, if you can find a big box store that has an easy refund policy on the Panasonic I would still give it a try. Nothing to lose in that case. |
|
New member Username: Dmckean44San Diego, CA Post Number: 2 Registered: Sep-07 | When I first got it I thought it sounded horrible then I realized I didn't have the subwoofer tunred off and speakers set to "Large". Once I made those changes everything soundsed great. It drives my PMC OB1s really well but looking at the impedance curve in this review: http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/pmc-ob1.html it shouldn't have any trouble. I listen to all kinds of music including live music (lots of recording of acoustic jazz). All of it sounds wonderful. I won't even get into how much less power it draws than some other amplifiers that didn't have the power to drive my speakers. My real wish would be for Panasonic to make a 2 channel version with all the video and multichannel circuitry removed and maybe an upgraded ADC. It should also have a phono stage that adds the RIAA equalization in the digital domain. They could even have fun with it and make tube amp DSPs that emulate classic equipment like the Fisher 500 with tone controls and loudness. Give the thing an aluminum faceplate and I'm sure it'd be a hit. |
|
Bronze Member Username: KillamabillaClear Lake, TX USA Post Number: 16 Registered: May-07 | I agree David. Would love to see a 2 chan version too. |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 74 Registered: Mar-06 | the store manager told me he can give me 3 years no intrest payments so I am going to think more about upgrating this now. Any other sugestions for budget HT (receiver and speakers )? I looked at totem dreamcatcher HT. speakers would cost me about 2000 but what receiver would drive them? I would not be able to buy another Arcam like I did for Arro upstairs. Anyway Panasonic A/V SAXR57 DefTech ProCinema 60 $1200 - this is minimum. Combination of dreamcatcher and some receiver would be a top $3000(not even sure if I could aford this) thanks Pablo |
|
Bronze Member Username: KillamabillaClear Lake, TX USA Post Number: 17 Registered: May-07 | Pablo, $3000 for an HT system is crazy unless you have a huge huge room. With that kind of money you could get an HT system and a separate 2-chan music system in a different room and be much happier. |
|
Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1351 Registered: Apr-05 | Speaking of which, where is Edster these days? |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8773 Registered: Dec-04 | New Mexico. |
|
Bronze Member Username: Hank_hillPost Number: 17 Registered: May-06 | Hey Pablo, I'm wondering if it's a possibility to move the Arcam AVR280 down to your HT setup and replace it with a decent integrated amp (maybe the A70 or A90 if you like Arcam) for your stereo setup with the Arros. I think the A70 is about $1000. Of course, you'd then have to get a 5.1 speaker setup for HT. I believe Stereo Plus also sells Paradigm (cheaper than Totem but should be fine for HT, IMHO) --- you might be able to audition a setup with the AVR280 there as well. Hank |
|
Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 479 Registered: Jun-07 | Pablo, Paradigm/Arcam Receiver should make for a Lovely Home Theater. |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 75 Registered: Mar-06 | Well good idea but few problems. First I had NAD 743 driving these Arros and I was not happy. Now with AVR280 with Arros being biwired it is excellent! Also I am using squeezebox for source - it is connected via coax cable to Arcam. So this means that Arcam DAC's are being used not the ones from squeezebox. So with A90 - no biwire and squeezebox DAC, and no local radio(this I can get around by programming local stations to squeezebox) No matter what I will not sacrifice music quality upstairs! thanks for sugestion but I have to think about other solution when I will be back from vacation. 2 weeks with family in Varadero - price of AVR280  Pablo |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2108 Registered: May-05 | Pablo, I'm not completely sure about your budget and what pieces you already have. If you like the Arcam/Totem combination, I'd stick with it. If music is your proirity upstairs and don't care much for HT up there, I'd go the route Hank suggests. The A70 has two sets of speaker outputs. The DAC thing is a concern however. If the HT isn't really a big concern and you just want better sound than you currently have, you could go the 2 channel or 2.1 route. A good integrated amp or stereo receiver can sound very good for movies. Better than most people think. The Outlaw stereo receiver reportedly can sound very good. It has plenty of clean power and good bass/subwoofer management. |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 76 Registered: Mar-06 | Stu see thread NAD C272 or T763 for Arro's? "In basement for my HT I have 5y old panasonic all in one HT (I know but after Arcam have to take a breake for a while)There are 5 satelite speakers and sub. I have already changed front speakers for my 4 y old bookshelf - sound dynamisc RTS-1. Already big improvement. I also have sound dynamics RTS-800 sub but how to use it? ..." I have already connected rts sub as well Like I mentioned I do not want to sacrifice sound quality upstairs and if I replace 280 with A70/A90 I will lose DAC's. If you look at the top the initial option was Panasonic A/V SAXR57 DefTech ProCinema 60 for $1200. The absolute top would be dreamcatcher and some?? receiver total $3000. So this is my question. Is the first option ok or something else? But I have to get it from StereoPlus in Ottawa - I will get deals and 36 months no intrest payments. Pablo |
|
Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 2379 Registered: Sep-04 | Oh heck Pablo, <facetious=on> just get a Naim SuperNAIT to replace the AVR280 upstairs and relegate the 280 to the HT system downstairs. The SuperNAIT has a fabulous DAC and makes music like you've never heard. Wonderful amp and it'll eat ARROs for breakfast. It only costs around $4500 and has a 6 week waiting list because of demand!<facetious=off> Ah phew, got that off my chest! Coming back to earth... I don't know the XR57 well enough to comment on it. I do know that the XR55 was quite picky when it came to speakers that are difficult to drive. Therefore your choice of Dreamcatchers is not complimentary to the XR55, and probably the 57. You'd be far better off choosing something like the Focal Chorus 700V range which are an easy load if you wish to stick with the Panasonic solution. The new midrange Denon 2808 should be high on your list. It supports all the latest audio formats including the uncompressed DTS Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD formats available through the high definition HD-DVD and Blu-Ray media. The '08 Denon amps from the 2808 upwards support these formats via HDMI. It's nice to be future-proofed. Another brand to look at is Onkyo who also support those formats on all their new models from the TX-SR605 upwards (the 605 is inexpensive - around $600 in the US, £400 in the UK). If it were me, I'd probably go for the 705 if possible. It seems that bit better on paper as well as benefitting from a bit more power which should suit the Totems better, but I haven't heard either of them. There's also the new Pioneer Elites such as the new 91TRH (?), but I have been disappointed with Pioneer in the past, finding them a bit veiled in comparison to the Denons. I hope this helps and although my opening facetious remark was made with tongue in cheek, it is a shame that the SuperNAIT is beyond your means since that is a superlative solution. Regards, Frank. |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8819 Registered: Dec-04 | Frank, you are drooling on your keyboard. |
|
Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 500 Registered: Jun-07 | Got reading above, I agree with ART and STU, I have heard the Panasonic about 2 or 3 times, my cousin actually owns it. Its brutal at best. Sound does not feel Natural, very "electronic" sounding, and when turned to high volumes becomes even worse of course. Pablo, the new NAD line is being re-released with those HD formats, not that a receiver should need it. But to keep up with the marketing jamo(As long as the receiver can convert the HD formats into PCM through HDMI, the player will do the HD Decoding itself), they should be out by X-mas. Hopefully. As of right now they do handle the HD formats through HDMI as the players decode it. |
|
Silver Member Username: Nickelbut10Post Number: 501 Registered: Jun-07 | The SuperNAIT would be damn sweet though. *drool* |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 79 Registered: Mar-06 | Frank, I will check Onkyo if Stereoplus can get it. Just back from vacation so the bank is empty, maybe for xmass Pablo |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 81 Registered: Mar-06 | I went tho Stereoplus yesterday and was thinking about arcam A70 for Arro's and Dreamcatcher for HT (pairing with AVR280). Got pretty good deal for A70/Dreamcatcher pair. But this is the question (FRANK what do you think) puting aside that in A70/Arro/Squeezox combination squeezebox dac will be used (not AVR280 dac) would Arro work with A70??? there is a statement in A70 specifications: "You can connect one or two pairs of loudspeakers to your amplifier, provided each pair is rated between 8--16U. If one or both pairs have an impedance of less than 8U, the combined load on the amplifier falls below 4U and could cause an overload. If so, the overload protection circuit may engage and the amplifier will not work." Arro's are 4ohm! So will this work? Pablo |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8997 Registered: Dec-04 | No Pablo, just as the disclaimer says, the speakers must be 8ohm minimum if you want to run 2 pairs. The A70 will run one pair of 4ohm speakers, but 2 pairs present a 2ohm load, and that ain't gonna work at all. |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2190 Registered: May-05 | That's a little confusing Pablo. Are you asking if you can run the Arros and Dreamcatchers at the same time from the A70? I think you're asking if the A70 will work with just the Arros. That answer is yes. It won't have any problems. If you ran the Dreamcatchers and Arros at the same time as in Speaker A + B, the A70 would most likely shut down because of what you stated - the impedence of both speakers combined would go from 4 ohms to 2 ohms, which is a load the amplifier wasn't designed to cope with. |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 82 Registered: Mar-06 | Stu - move AVR280 dowstairs buy dreamcatcher. this would be amazing HT system for me. Also get A70 for Arro's upstairs (to replace AVR280 that is there now). The concern is do I loose a lot on quality of my music system upstairs? Can A70 handle Arro's? - no bi amping, less power no DAC comparing to AVR280. Pablo |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 83 Registered: Mar-06 | Just to clarify more - dreamcatcher 5.1 HT(5 speakers + sub package) |
|
Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 2194 Registered: May-05 | I haven't heard the A70 and Arros, so I'm not 100% sure. But, I heard the A65+ which had significantly less power (40 watts) with the Arros, and it sounded very good to my ears. Arcam delivers more than enough current to get the Arros singing. The Arros aren't wattage hungry, they're clean current hungry, and the A70 should have no problems with that. As far as the Squeeze Box DAC compared to the AVR's and the bi-amping, I have no experience with these so I can't answer. Will your dealer let you demo an A70 at home? This will really be the only way to know for sure. I'm assuming you've bought a bunch of stuff from him in the past, and are still buying stuff from him. He should be able to help you get an in home demo. |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 84 Registered: Mar-06 | yes demo will be no problem. I can test DAC in good way - conecting squeezebox using audio analog cable to diffrent source of AVR280 (now connected already using coax)play something and just switch source buttons on avr but to test all setup will not be as accurate - you play a song reconnect everything and 2 minutes after you play again well... the diffrence if any will not be that apparent.But of cause I will try. Pablo |
|
Bronze Member Username: Hank_hillPost Number: 21 Registered: May-06 | Hey Pablo, I'm anxious to hear your thoughts if you've had a chance to do this test. I currently have a pair of Arro's being driven by a NAD L53 (coincidentally also purchased from StereoPlus ) and use a Squeezebox as the main music source. The sound is acceptable via the internal CD/DVD player, however it's noticably poorer via the Squeezebox (with analog or coax). So...I'm debating either getting an A/V receiver with a decent DAC (such as the Arcam which uses the well-regarded Wolfson DACs --- I've been keeping my eye out for a used AVR250) or just a decent integrated such as the Arcam A70 and possibly adding an external DAC down the road. Incidentally, the Squeezebox uses the Burr-Brown PCM1748 DAC. I noticed that the model number was similar to the PCM1738 DAC used in various Music Hall products including the $1500 Maveric CD/SACD player. This got my hopes up but after further investigation the two don't seem that closely related after all. Burr-Brown PCM1748 Burr-Brown PCM1738 Hank |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 85 Registered: Mar-06 | Hank are you from Ottawa? pablo |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 86 Registered: Mar-06 | Hank Over the weekend I will test this again but quick test showed AVR280 DAC is much better to the squeezebox one. I had connected squeezebox both coax to one input(DVD), analog to other(AV) when both inputs had no modes, no sound enhancements - coax connection sounded a bit better. With setting DVD input to stereo mode - the difference was much bigger. As if you turn down the volume in analog connection more crisp and clear. I will try again with direct mode (analog in analog out no processing) and let you know. The only problem is when I will bring home A70 it will not be instant - it takes time to switch connection. And the best test is to flick the button and you know right away. this is what I got from totem and arcam: "although the power difference will be noticeable the a70 does have sufficient power to drive the Arro to satisfying levels furthermore the A70 does incorporate added stereo refinement that is not found in the avr 280 " "there is no doubt that the A70 will drive the Totem Arro's without sweating, on the other hand, we do not recommend that you use speaker A & B at the same time to bi-amp your Arro's. To bi-amp your speakers, all our integrated amp have pre-outs so you can purchase a separate power amp from Arcam to bi-amp speakers. The good news! they all share the same gain which means you can use a 10 years old Arcam power amp with a 2007 integrated amp without disturbing the sound. Option #1: Purchase the A-70 for your Arro's and later purchase an Arcam power amp to bi-amp your speakers. Option #2: We still have some new discontinued A-80 integrated amp in stock rated at 65 watts/ch. (see attached owner's manual) which will provide you with a bit more power then the A-70. *ask Stereo Plus & Design for pricing. Hope this helps " Mario Cadoret - Arcam rep for Canada told me as well that they have demos, returned AVRs and they still have full Arcam warranty. AVR280 price just dropped to 1900 plus tax. I can probably get you 1900 total. If I were you this what I would do. And I did it and I am very happy from this set up. Have a look at thread "NAD C272 or T763 for Arro's? " Nothing against NAD but Arro's just were not Arro's when were driven by NAD743. Now with biamping they are excellent. Also when you call totem support they will tell you they only use Arcam in their shop and during demos. Pablo |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 87 Registered: Mar-06 | AVR280: Wolfson 24-bit 192kHz DACs, stereo ADC and electronic volume controls So this one is similar to PCM1738 in specs and quite better than PCM1748 Pablo |
|
Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 9032 Registered: Dec-04 | Great work Pablo. Hank, are you getting this? |
|
Bronze Member Username: Hank_hillPost Number: 22 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, Yup, I'm here now Hey Pablo, Thanks a million for going throught this effort and posting your findings here! I do live in the Ottawa area, and thanks for offering to get me a deal on the AVR280, however $1900 is well above my budget. I'm looking at $1000 max, so the A70 was appealing to me for this reason. I will certainly contact the Arcam rep and check in to the used units. It seems pretty convincing that the DAC plays a key role in the improved sound you're getting from the squeezebox. Right now I'm leaning towards a used AVR250 (I need to reasearch the DAC and if it supports bi-amping) if I can find one at a reasonable price. Thanks again! Hank |
|
Bronze Member Username: PabloPost Number: 88 Registered: Mar-06 | well it is above my budget as well that is why I am still thinking. For long weekend I will have A70 home to try so we will see. I would love to have good HT but I would hate to do anything to my music set up to make it sound worst. I like it a lot now after a year trying difrent things. Pablo |
Main Forums
Today's Posts- Home Audio Forum
- A/V Receivers Forum
- Amps Forum
- Cassette Forum
- CD Players Forum
- CD Recorders Forum
- DAC & Transports Forum
- DVD-Audio & SACD Forum
- Equalizers Forum
- Integrated Amps Forum
- iPod Docks Forum
- MiniDisc Forum
- Mini Systems Forum
- Digital Music Systems Forum
- Phono Forum
- Preamps Forum
- Speakers Forum
- Subwoofers Forum
- Tuners Forum
- Home Video Forum
- Home Theater Forum
- Car Audio Forum
- Accessories Forum
- All Forum Topics