Again, I would like to seek your advise and opinions...
I currently have C352, C542 and Dyn 52s, in my desire to increase the power of my amp to better drive the Dyn 52s, I am looking at either upgrading the C352 to C372 or buy C272 and use the C352 as the preamp...in both cases, the same amount of money is involved...my dealer is offering me a C272 demo unit which is very tempting pricewise, on the other hand, I could possible trade my C352 with C372 with almost the same amount i have to shell out....
Now, my question are: 1) which would be the best approach? Get the int amp or the power amp? I am thinking that with the latter, I have the possibility of achieving a balanced system by getting a preamp in the future(perhaps C162) 2) is it a good idea to use the C352 as preamp only? what is the drawback if any? 3) will the C272 suffice to drive the Dyn 52s? Will the C372 as well?
Thank you very much in advance and looking forward to your thoughts and suggestions...
If you buy the C272 you can bi-amp, don't just use the pre! You could run the tweeters with the C352 and the bass end with the C272. Or alternatively go your way and just use the pre on the C352. Rather than do the latter I'd sooner have the C372 but bi-amping is fun! You'd really drive those Dyns doing that.
The dyn 52s are not bi-wirable...yes, I'm leaning on the C272 route but I have not heard the C272 driving the dyn 52s, the shop that was selling it does not carry dyn speakers, it was demoed using PSB T45s but i was able to request the salesguy to use the C352 pre...I don;t know how the C272 will perform with a bit difficult load as the dyn 52s...
I'll have the weekend to decide and I'll update you guys...
Arnold, the 272 has a lot of guts. The current should not be a problem, but the 52's have a funky phase angle shift to them, I am looking for the phase angle profile that I had once. It's like -42 or so, if I remember. Again, the 272 should not have an issue there, just a matter of recovery time for the next requirement.
An old poster had the 272 with a small external cap bank for just this purpose, not sure if it was a home brew or something purchased.
Hi Nuck, I am not aware or should I say, I am not knowledgeable much on the speaker characteristics, I would really appreciate if you could elaborate more on the "funky phase angle shift" subject....
As far as the C272 demo unit, I only have this week to decide and get it so i need to gather info as fast as I could otherwise the good offer might be gone.......
Hi, finally I got the C272 and I am very satisfied with the result, first thing I noticed is the considerable improvement in the bass region, it's deeper and tighter, more weight to it and there is authority in the delivery, in the C352 i can hear the bass but now I feel the bass and secondly the sound is bigger, is it what you call soundstage? Also, I did noticed that it is as if the performers are nearer as compared to the sound of the C352. Overall, the music is full bodied and very smooth and warm, the mids are very well defined, the highs are clean and clear, not harsh.
I am very happy with this purchase although I have to admit I had a hard time coming up with the budget but in the end, it's worth it!
Currently, I have connected to the fixed input, was wondering which is better, the fixed or the variable? I recall reading that the C352 have the same gain as the C272, if this is so then using the fixed would be more appropriate?
Also, I have not connected the 12v trigger, I am powering down/standby the amp manually, I will have to ask the dealer for the standard mono cable to use for this...
Even my wife noticed the difference made by the C272 and I am enjoying more my music, makes me listen from CD after CD... I am truly happy now with my system, the addition of the C272 seems to bring out the best of the rest of the components especially the Dyn 52 which must be very happy with the amount of power it's getting from the C272....
I just got my C162 preamp and am very happy with it. I'm going to buy the C272 in about 2 weeks, when I finally get a few days off work, so I'm glad to hear you're happy with yours. Thanks for reaffirming my choice!
Arnold, congrats on the C272. It should do what you're asking.
Franks S, my 2 channel system is the the C162, C272, Rega Apollo cdp and B&W602S3's which thrive with the extra power and I tell you, for the money I don't think this combo could be beat. Real music to my ears,
Thanks very much M.R., I really am very satisfied with these upgrade...btw, saw that you are using merlin cables, which one did you use from pre to power, the verdi or the chopin?
Frank S, thanks and yes I've read lots of good things about that B&W 602s though have never heard one before and here's M.R., one of the valuable and knowledgeable member of ecoustics who can attest to the C272/C162 combo...goodluck!
There seems to be a move in the audiophile world toward single manufacturer wiring looms. e.g. QED power cables, interconnects and speaker cables. I have found that this depends on the kit. Some systems respond to this approach really well but in others it over-eggs the pudding.
In the case of your equipment, I have used Chord Co. looms to good effect, but I have tended to use their more expensive cables and therefore one would expect to have better results anyway. NAD does seem to benefit from the approach though.
Regards, Frank. - hoping I have made some sort of sense...
Thanks Frank, of course, it makes sense as most of your advise/opinions are based on actual experience/test...It's also good to know that NAD will benefit from using cables from one manufacturer as it's gives me some more room for improvement....
Also, currently, I am using chord co chorus from CDP to preamp(in my case NAD C352), I got this chord chorus quite cheap as it is pre-owned, I'll be scouting again in some audio shops here and hopefully can find another one, it's quite difficult to get chords cable here in KL Malaysia as there is no(or I'm not aware of any)dealer/distributor, it's in Singapore...
might also try merlin since I very well know the guy from one audio shop here who is carrying merlins, he's willing to lend me the cables for testing and if not good result i can always return them with no cost at all...
as for the power cord, I am using QED Qonduit which I had good results in C352...
Frank, one question though, am I right in using the fixed input in the C272?
Hi, I was able to connect the 12v trigger from C352 and C272 and it's already working...I also changed the mains cable to QED Qonduit so both C352 and C272 have the same mains cable....thanks-arnold
hey M.R. thanks for the reassurance about the NAD compatability with the 602's. I'm looking forward to getting the rest of the NAD gear in a couple of weeks!
I spoke too soon about the 12v trogger, I removed again the cable connecting the 12v trigger, I noticed that when I turn off the system there is a popping sound in the speakers, I am not sure whether this is normal or not...turning on does not have any popping sound...I actually used a stereo cable, the NAD dealer said it's okay to use this, quite difficult to buy a mono one....does this have anything to do with the popping sound?thanks-arnold
The sound is perfectly normal, it's the output capacitors draining their stored charge once the power is switched off. You won't get this noice when you turn on the amp because there has been no power running through the capacitors.
Thanks SunKing, I just got worried that this sound(popping) will damage the speakers, but why is it that when I use the button (manually), i dont hear this sound?
I would think that there is some device that stops the popping noise but it is rigged to the power switch. Old amps make this noise, a lot of the newer amps have a circuit which prevents it. The noise isn't harmful though, just annoying. We need to be sure that this IS the noise you are experiencing though, it is fairly quiet and inoffensive - if a little disheartening?
Naim amps pop on both switch on and off! Their manuals refer to them as a 'thump' on switch on and a 'mild pop' on switch off. Most amplifiers have a buffer which stops this happening which gives peace of mind.
Arnold, shame you're in KL - I have two sets of Chorus I wouldn't mind moving on...
Thanks SunKing and Frank for the explanation, still I am not comfortable hearing this popping sound so I might just use the switch(manually on/off)....for peace of mind
Frank, too bad I am on the other side of the world he he he, but Thank you very much Frank for the offer, it's greatly appreciated... I might be able to go to Singapore next month and will search there for Chord Chorus.... regards-arnold
1) Using NAD 325BEE as integrated (not bad at all)
2) Add C272 as a power amp and using C325BEE as a Preamp --> Bass deeper and tighter, soundstage enhancement !
3) I then replace C325BEE with C162 as preamp --> Not day and night enhancement but more refinement in the hights (and as a secundary benefits: C162 is not"heating" as the C325BEE and headphone output is functional)
I'm using Triangle Celius 202 speakers and NAD 521 BEE as CD source (HMS interconnects).
I'm currently in the move to replace 521BEE CD with Rega Apollo and very interested in any feedback on this association: 162/272 combo + Apollo CD player.
I think the Apollo is much much better than the 521BEE, even the C542 is no match for the Apollo. Check the CDP section, there is a huge thread on the Apollo...they say the Apollo is really indeed a revelation!
red2, is this a new Nick? Great to see you here, I don't remember you from past. The Apollo is a simple step up, so long as the price doesn't scare anybody. It would be my rec for a solid player, like a bunch of others. I use the Rotel 1072, the Apollo, a Classe trans/dac and the puter as sources. The Rega is the most flexible, but the Rotel is a RnR machine through and through. The Classe is an absolute beauty for Jesus Christ Superstar.
I demo'd a Rotel 1075 amp weekend before last, connected to Denon AVR as preamp. It also popped with manual shutdown. For a short time I ran it with rear speakers connected but not pre-in from AVR (listening to front 3 only). It popped in the rears only if I turned off the amp last. I've heard of situations where the music keeps playing a bit if you shutdown the amp first (acurus i think).
Should always switch off power amp first, followed by preamp and finally sources. This ensures no nasty pops get amplified through the power amp by mistake.
Reverse process is true for firing up. Sources first, preamp next, power amp last.
Hi Frank, thanks...As mentioned before, if I use the switch of the power amp, i don't get those nasty pops on the speaker at all no matter what the sequence is, only when using the 12v trigger(remote on and off)I experience this popping...
I am truly happy now with my system, the addition of the C272 seems to bring out the best of the rest of the components especially the Dyn 52 which must be very happy with the amount of power it's getting from the C272....