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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 123 Registered: Feb-04 | A good friend of mine, after much auditioning, just purchased the PMC OB1 for the mains, and other PMCs (and sub) for the rest of his HT. He's using an Anthem pre/pro and their 6 (or 7?) channel amp. Anybody have experience with PMC? |
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Unregistered guest | Looks to me these are all active designs, meaning powered speaker systems. The designer can do some nice things with active speakers; the speaker becomes part of the negative feedback loop of the amp and can therefore be matched better. One big drawback; if you want to add power or change the amp....might be costly or difficult, and you'll not know how the drivers will respond to power other than what was designed for them. I'd go with passive speakers, personally. |
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Bronze Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 95 Registered: Apr-04 | MAUI: Are you sure the PMC OB1 is active? |
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New member Username: KnightshadeTaunton, Somerset England Post Number: 4 Registered: May-04 | Maui, They are Transmission Line speakers. NOT active speakers. They are 6 Ohms so they aren't too heavy a load for your Amplifiers. They are also designed for Tri-Amping which can really bring them alive. Because of the way transmission line works (www.pmcloudspeaker.com/transmission.html) they are Front Vented which means they can go fairly close to walls and corners. I can only speak for the OB1's but using them in a home theatre invironment would (I'd imagine) be very good, the bass extension is superb. Match these speakers with an Amp(s) of similar quality (Chord electronics - Linn, etc) and you will have a pretty much unbeatable system. I (Like your friend) auditioned an awful lot of speakers JMLAB - Electra 936, MA GR 60 to name the 2 best. In saying these are the 2 best the OB1's wiped the floor with them. Be warned they take about 200 hours to burn in. After that you'll find these speakers just fade away into the background creating a transparent and massive sound stage. |
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Bronze Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 98 Registered: Apr-04 | PMC speakers have limited availability in the STATES and the PMC OB1's come in at appx $4500 US. This gives them STIFF competition from US made Thiel 2.4, at about the same price, with Thiels FAR superior cabinet design than square edge PMC's. The time-aligned driver arrangement and baffleless front plate on the Thiels is not even available on the PMC design. Thiels are also available in at least a dozen different standard finishes and some custom finishes, so competition at that price point becomes quite fierce. I'm going to Audition the PMC OB1 and Thiel 2.4 at great length nonetheless. I owned Thiel 2.2's after owning KEF 104.2 then obtained the Thiel 2.3 (a wierd situation occurred) and NEVER liked the 2.3. BUT I hear the 2.4's are completely different. Thiels can spoil an audiophile for life, once you get used to that time-aligned sound. Also, Thiels are American made reliable in the best sense. I BLASTED mine for seven years in our HUGE victorian house with my NAD 7600 with no problems and my KEF"S suffered driver failure in both units multiple times. |
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Will_Johnson Unregistered guest | Chocobiker, I disagree almost entirely with the comments you made in your post. When you said..."time-aligned driver arrangement and baffless front plate on the Thiels is not even available on the PMC design"...that comment was completely out of context as I can easily say something like: the Thiels don't offer the "Nautilus tweeter". A baffle is not necessarily a bad thing (purely from an acoustics point of view) as it does increase the pressure/intensity/power over an unbaffled source. You say Thiels have a far superior design, which seems basely solely on looks and "curviness". Internally I think the PMC has a far more superior cabinet design. It doesn't need a 3-inch front baffle to reduce unwanted vibrations, it uses smaller, easier-to-drive drivers and still plays pretty low, while also weighing a full 20lbs less than the Thiels. Its true that they only come in 7 different finishes but isn't that enough? You praised the B&W 800-series speakers in another post, yet they only come in 3 different finishes. One more thing, at $4500 they also offer a 20year warrant a full 10yrs more than the Thiels, which is always good for people like you and me who like it loud. But all this is peanuts as it all comes down to the bottom line...how do they sound? I look forward to your review comparing the two speakers, keep in mind that PMC/Bryston strive for transparent un-colored sound and so they might not seems as "musical" as other speakers. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 103 Registered: Apr-04 | The front panel on all Thiels is 'tilted'; as to have the top tweeter unit slightly back, then the bass driver, at the bottom. You have to see this with the grille cloth off. The driver mounting baffle is completely smooth & rounded, with no edges. Thus, the drivers output has no sharp edges for diffraction to occur. On a square cabinet like the PMC, diffraction occurs. It is NOT AT ALL out of context to state this when directly comparing TWO speakers. In response to to the cabinets, knuckle knock on the cabinet of ANY Thiel, and you'll come away understanding what a sturdy cabinet is. I"ve only seen two (B&W/KEF) that are inert as a Thiel cabinet. Heavy and solid and sturdy. Get in the habit of "knuckle-knocking" speaker cabinets when you audition them. The reason I mentioned the indeed fine sounding B&W was to demonstrate the price vs. performance issue ALONE, independent of considering available finishes/verneers for color sensitive decors. I'm going to RE-Audition the Thiel 2.4 at length as well as the PMC OB1, with my "acid-test" CD's, and give them both carefully controlled auditioning tests. The PMC 20 year warranty is indeed impressive, but my Thiels were quite reliable given the power I dumped to them on a routine basis. I believe both speakers should offer very fine sound given the hefty prices. |
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New member Username: KnightshadeTaunton, Somerset England Post Number: 8 Registered: May-04 | Interesting what you say Chico, I know the British market has very exacting tastes in audio systems. I hate to have to say this but I have yet to hear an American made speaker sound good on a British setup! Everything I've heard so far has a rather soulless, engineered sound to it. You may find the same thing in reverse. I have listened to Thiel 2.4 (All be it not extensively). I auditioned MA GR60's and 20's, Thiel 2.3, PMC OB1 and JMLAB Electra 936 and Castle speakers. All these are comparable in price. The system I tested it on was Chord Electronics, in my own house in a 20' x 18' room. Blu CD Transport, DAC 64 Chord 1032 Integrated Chord 1032 Stereo Power x2 All connected with my well burnt in Atlas Electra (Balanced) interconnects. The Front end (I believe) is the most important thing in any system. Be it a £16000 Chord set up or £1000 NAD system. Speakers are important but not as important as your CD and Amplification. A badly matched system with poor cabling will result in dreadful sound with any speakers. This is NOT a badly matched system. All the components work superbly well together. If you don't believe me read all the reviews! All the speakers should perform pretty much at there optimum levels. Something I find interesting is the different approaches of Speaker manufacturers to the same problems. You talk of Inferior cabinet design and poor baffling on PMC speakers but you have to ask yourself: Is this really important? PMC have a different approach The Cabinet is laminated on both sides, the speaker drivers are smaller and of far superior quality to the Thiels especially the mid and high range drivers which incidentally are the same as the more expensive PMC studio monitors. The cabinet itself is solidly braced with a wide footprint. Perhaps Bryston limit the finishes in the States but the speakers we get over here are of outstanding quality and (I think) about 7 or 8 different finishes (How many do you want?) plus the option of Magnetic Shielding. If fancy looking cabinet design is your thing then I can't influence you but if you look at PMC (Professional Monitoring Company's) pedigree then you tend to see what they're all about. At the end of the day, if you're even considering spending £2500 on speakers. £200 or so extra for superior speakers is neither here nor there. At the end of the day fancy design means nothing if it doesn't work. All of the other speakers I've tested tend to add a little colour of there own to the music the OB1's add the least. Meaning out of all the speakers I've tested these let the system breathe the most. To be absolutely honest they created a massive soundstage and when the system was TRI-AMPED they become so transparent they practically disappeared. The Bass extension is the best I've ever heard tight and very fast. The MA GR60 coming a very close second on this. If your musical tastes extend beyond pop and disco then you'll appreciate the OB1's. The Thiels overall performed about as well as the JMLAB's and the GR20's. Put it his way I had to think to remember the names of them they made that much of an impression. So overall, yes the OB1's are a bit dearer than the competition but who the hell cares? |
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Gopal Unregistered guest | Interesting discussion going on here. I don't have alot of experience with PMCs but as Thiels are one of the products I deal with along with B&W and MA I do have loads of experience with them in all kinds of different systems. I must say that in a well matched system I believe that Thiel 2.4s would leave the Monitor audios for dust. Mainly because those Thiel tweeters are so incredibly transparent and I have never considered MAs to have the quality of tweeter that a Thiel or Nautilus has. Also, just as a matter of interest if you want to hear Thiels sound awesome with english electronics try an all Meridian system or we have recently discovered that Quad electronics really make them sing too. |
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Silver Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 132 Registered: Apr-04 | Gopal and Mark - in my experience I would have to put Thiels far ahead of MA's in terms of transparency and cabinet construction. I agree with Gopal here entirely. While listening to Thiel 2.4, (I didn't care for my 2.3s, but I liked my 2.2s - another story) not a full audition mind you, I noted it was quite clear and clean with Thiels usual bass abilities. In re-auditioning and knuckle rapping the MA Gold 60 sides, I also cannot state that I found the MA cabinet ANYWHERE near as inert, solid or diffraction free as the Thiels are by design. The front baffle on a Thiel is completely free of edges and there is no diffraction as there is on speakers with square edge cabinets. Once you get used to hearing speakers with diffraction free sound, cabinets that do diffract the sound are quite noticeable. I am virtually certain that I would like the sound of the PMC OB1, in fact it's on my short list of 3-way speakers in that price range. I happen to like British speakers and admire the British audio industry. I owned KEF's, the Wharfedale Opus are also on my short list and I think British speakers cables are very sensible. I also adore BW upper end speakers. As far as the arguments of British vs. American systems, I'd say that is a matter of taste with variables too broad to cover on a message board. |