LP cleaners, again
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10132 Registered: May-04 | . http://www.audiointelligent.com/rcmmuseum.htm |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10133 Registered: May-04 | . http://www.audiointelligent.com/aboutrcm.htm |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10134 Registered: May-04 | . http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1170496057 |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10135 Registered: May-04 | . http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.pl?searchtext=DIY+Vinyl+Cleaning+Solution&b =OR&topic=&topics_only=N&author=&date1=&date2=&slowmessage=&sort=score&sortOrder =DESC&forum=vinyl |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 72 Registered: Jul-07 | What do you use? I only used the discwasher and I see that my old LPs were treated with LAST. I see the little stickers on many of my LPs. I must be getting Al Heimers', or Old Timers' as I don't remember much about it. Searching this topic has made it clear it is as HUGE. Instead of going into a whole new field of study, I would simply ask what you recommend. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 74 Registered: Jul-07 | Sorry Jan, I did not mean for you to repeat yourself. I just wanted a general consensus. Thank you for these posts! As for the discwasher, I augment it with a good quality, no emmissions, little German shop vac. I know that was primitive but did address some of the problems you discussed. |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 65 Registered: Jul-07 | I use an electric VPI record cleaner that applies cleaner, scrubs and vacuums off the dirt. Exceptional piece of equipment. Cost me $600 about 10 years ago. Well worth the money for my more than 2500 LPs. Discwasher is OK for surface contaminants. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 79 Registered: Jul-07 | Coincidentally, my new discwasher arrived minutes ago. Now I remember how inadequate it is. It seems that the old one (long lost now) was nicer. I guess I will have to start shopping for a real cleaner. Now it looks like I will be keeping many LPs. I had started because I was forced to retrieve them from storage of 16 yrs. At first I was going to copy some and then sell them. Now that I got a table and started spinning I am getting hooked. I know that because I already bought a new LP (box set of 5!) and have only had the table a week. I have been googling some of my old collection to see if they are available and found a rare classic I had to order. Shhh, don't tell her. She is shocked everytime I go back and pick up another wagon full! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8126 Registered: Dec-04 | Just when ya think you are out, they DRAG ya back in, KC! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5128 Registered: Feb-05 | Nitty Gritty manual cleaner for a little over $300 Most folks I know are still using the same one 20+ yrs later. A good carbon fiber brush for everyday cleaning after once you've cleaned with fluid. Kevin, sounds like you're havin' a blast, outstanding! |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10953 Registered: May-04 | . "A good carbon fiber brush for everyday cleaning after once you've cleaned with fluid." If you cleaned it correctly with the fluid, and the sleeve isn't full of maggots, you have no need to drag another brush full of dirt over the record. Unless you wash your carbon fiber brush after each disc you use it on, it will be full of dirt from one disc to the next. If the disc has chunks of dust big enough to see, you can use a microfiber towel on the disc and rotate the towel to a clean area for each disc. Otherwise, play it and let the stylus knock the stuff out of the way as it plays, ala Roy Gandy of Rega. I hardly ever "clean" a record on the table and I have no ticks and pops that I can tell are not there before I used the wet vac on it. . |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 80 Registered: Jul-07 | Took another look. Lots of models of record cleaners to choose from. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10956 Registered: May-04 | . Most of them clean the disc in the same basic manner. The difference in price comes with the amount of automation you desire, the speed with which they clean both sides of the disc and how quiet they are in operation. If they use a brush to spread the cleaning solution, they are all doing essentially the same thing. Several of the very expensive models are patterned after the old Keith Monks machine which used an arm to pick up the fluid as it moved across the LP's surface. Other models such as the VPI have a wand that is drawn down on the disc by the vacuum and the topo'the line VPI cleans both sides simultaneously. I use the Disc Doctor machine. It is a rebadged Nitty Gritty machine sold exclusively through Audio Advisor for $200. It is fully manual and as noisey as a shop vac (as are most of the low to mid priced machines) but does as good a job as anything else. I sold the VPI's and the Nitty Gritty's and I prefer the big VPI for convenience but I don't prefer the price of the big VPI. Consider that you will probably keep a disc cleaning machine for twenty years or more. . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5130 Registered: Feb-05 | Most folks use the carbon fiber brush for static and dusting...used and cared for correctly it isn't full of dirt. However I rarely use it once the record has been cleaned. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10958 Registered: May-04 | . "Most folks use the carbon fiber brush for static and dusting...used and cared for correctly it isn't full of dirt." A Zerostat does a much more effctive job of destaticising a disc. The purpose of the carbon fiber brush is to have an electrostatically charged brush collect the dust by way of its charge - which attracts the dust to the fibers and "holds" them in place as you lift the brush from the disc's surface. The dust clings to the brush just as dust would cling to any surface with an electrostatic charge that cannot be maintained over long periods of time. It works on the same principle as rubbing a balloon on the clothes and then bringing the balloon close to your hair. That charge soon dissipates and the balloon no longer has its pull on your hair. The dust you've picked up with the carbon fiber cannot be fully removed by running the brush over yet another piece of plastic in the stand provided for the brush. Unless you wash the brush each time you use it, i.e. between each disc side, it can only carry the dust from one disc to the next. Unless you are certain the charge is sufficient to hold all of the dust to the brush, you may contaminate the next disc you are trying to clean. I find the microfiber towel does a better job at essentially the same function and I can turn the towel to a clean spot should I need to clean another disc. Which I generally don't. Throw away the brush, Art. It's ancient technology. Use a microfiber towel. . |
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Bronze Member Username: SkeeterheadPost Number: 67 Registered: Jul-07 | I never thought I would say this, but Jan's analysis on the limited utility of the carbon fiber brush squares with my experience. Without consistent washing/cleaning, you're merely transfering dust (or worst) from one LP to another. If you don't believe it, clean one record and dust the brush as recommneded, then clean another record. Hold the second record under a fluorescent light and examine the results. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10961 Registered: May-04 | . Well, as Dino sang, "Ain't that a kick in the head?" |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 81 Registered: Jul-07 | Static. Yes, I am getting that. My temporary impromptu cleaning, I covered the shop vac brush with a swifter cloth, and/or the disc washer. But often the light table pad comes up with the LP on the Rega P3. I will get a real cleaner but a different question: Is that the best pad? |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 82 Registered: Jul-07 | I see a VPI 16.5 on Audiogon for $400, normally 500. Plus $80 freight. The Nitty Grittys start near that ($365 + freight). Some Nitty on ebay. Automatic would be nice but my main concern is the noise. I would definately go for the quietest one. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5131 Registered: Feb-05 | "Throw away the brush, Art. It's ancient technology. Use a microfiber towel." Nope, I like my brush just fine. I also have a Zerostat...not impressed. I do have microfiber towels (remember the cd cleaning). Is there a particular brand that you use Jan, or is it the same ones that you use with the cd's. |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 10964 Registered: May-04 | . Since I use them infrequently for dry cleaning, I use what I have at hand. I do use them ocassionally for wet cleaning They all get pitched in the laundry with a few drops of soap every few weeks and dried without a fabric softener of course. My experience with microfiber says the best are the ones that grab hold of your fingers as you run your hand over their surface. The more the grab, the more "micro-ey" the fibers and the better the job they will do at reaching into the groove. . |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 594 Registered: May-06 | Damn, why couldn't you have posted that months ago? I've been tossing mine to the use on the car pile. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mekongdelta69Grew up in Brooklyn an... Post Number: 41 Registered: Apr-07 | Nitty Gritty 1.5FI Mk3 or Pro1 Mk3 (or the rest, depending on how much convenience you want) -- All loud, some are affordable, but you can't run the motor too long. http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/index.htm VPI HW - 17/27 -- All loud and overpriced (IMO). Can be run longer than the N.G.'s, but not nearly as long as the Loricraft or the K.M. http://www.vpiindustries.com/products_17.htm http://www.vpiindustries.com/prices.htm Loricraft PRC3/4/4DL/5/6 - Excellent and quiet, but very expensive. Can run forever. If it breaks, you can send it to their service center in the USA. Don't have to return it to England. http://www.smartdev.com/loricraft.html Keith Monks Mark 5 - Best, but 2x/3x as much as the Loricraft (depending on the L.C. model). Can run forever. However, if it breaks, you have to return it to England. http://www.keithmonks-rcm.co.uk/ Because of my huge collection, I've been cleaning records by hand for decades. Over time, all of us (collectors, that is) have tried a lot of methods/solutions, etc. and we all have our favorites, but we pretty much perfected (and wrote down) the best methods for cleaning 45s, LPs and 78s (all different). I also have the entire Discwasher kit (when it used to come as a complete set in that wooden case -- I've had it forever). I use it occasionally, if I get lazy and don't feel like hand-washing something. Best part of that set is the Zerostat (and the stylus cleaning micro-brush is fairly effective too). I've got a few dozen materials I use for cleaning labels (different marks - different solutions), and in the early 60s, a friend of mine taught me how to take skips/sticks out of records. We got so good at it that people used to send their records to us and we would make money on the side. After a while, we gave that up (as a business), because it's just too time consuming. We could take a 45 worth a few grand and improve it from a VG- cond. to a VG+ cond., but we just weren't making enough $$ for the time expended. Now, we just do it for ourselves (or maybe as a rare favor) for an old friend. Cleaning by hand is also time consuming but we're so used to it, we don't even think about it much anymore. You could certainly construct your own rig (as suggested above) and save some money. However, if I had to pick from the above, I'd probably get either the Nitty Gritty 1.5FI Mk3 (I need all three speeds, but I don't need to do both sides at once -- if I could put up with the noise -- it sounds like a Shop-Vac) or if I could really afford it, I'd get the Loricraft PRC4DL. Or, I'll just keep washing them by hand like I've always done... Or, I could sell my entire collection and retire to Bermuda (and take that Saturn with me)!! . |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 84 Registered: Jul-07 | I made an impulse bid on a nitty 1 on ebay, but I do like quiet vacs. I use a german made shop vac that puts the US ones to shame. Art, did you ever use the Scandanavian Nilfisc at the HP plant in OR! You can barely hear it. They are the best, but $900. The Fein is only $150 and not quite as quiet, but very good. It isn't rocket surgery to make a quiet vac, eh. Both have HEPA filters to keep your area dust free. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5133 Registered: Feb-05 | Never used it to my knowlwedge Kevin. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 85 Registered: Jul-07 | Sort of like hifi equip: pay 6 times more and get 10-15% quieter. Those small chrome vacs is all they use. Well, a day and a half and I will see if I have the Nity. Am I ignorant or should I be familiar with "microfiber towels"? I appreciate all the input since I bumped Jan's thread up. This site is a great education. |
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Bronze Member Username: KevincorrFairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 88 Registered: Jul-07 | Well I got out bid for the Nitty Gritty on ebay. I am new at that and those guys know how to beat you by $5 at the last minute. Well I could use that $$ and bid on that Nait3 on there. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mekongdelta69Grew up in Brooklyn an... Post Number: 63 Registered: Apr-07 | After all these decades of handwashing (see above), I'm saving up to finally get that Loricraft PRC4-DL ( http://www.smartdev.com/loricraft.html ). I think I've read everything humanly possible (or so it feels like) about every R.C.M. and I've gotten so many recommendations that I think I'm just going to put in a whole lot of O.T. this month and get the damn thing already. As good as I've become all through the decades cleaning by hand, I'm just getting too old to stand there and take 20 mins. each to meticulously clean every record which needs cleaning (especially with all the proprietary steps I use). Shhh -- What's that sound? Oh yeah -- one hand clapping! I know, I know -- who cares... . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5321 Registered: Feb-05 | Mike, you can a whole lotta cleaner for a whole lot less money...I mean unless you just like spending!!. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mekongdelta69Grew up in Brooklyn an... Post Number: 64 Registered: Apr-07 | In a way, no; in a way, yes Art. The Loricrafts/Monks DO clean MUCH better and require a lot less upkeep. There are various downsides to the N.G./VPIs. The motors sound like a Shop-Vac (because they basically are). I already have one in the garage -- believe me, I don't want another one in the basement! The motors on the LCs/Monks can run 24/7 if you want (and they are ::quiet:: -- you can play music while cleaning), while the NG/VPI motors will burn out if run too long at a time. With the NGS/VPIs, you have to clean the velvet pads constantly. There are a bunch of other 'upsides' to the LCs/Monks (I've done a TON of research, plus I auditioned them because a few other collector friends have them). The 'downside' is (obviously) the price (duh). It's not that I 'like' spending a lot of money (I'm not Bill Gates!), but at this point in my life, I want to get something that will make my life easier -- a luxury, if you will. We've all put in our 'time,' taken care of our families, served our country, paid our taxes, did our jury duty, worked for decades upon decades, did 'the right thing,' etc., etc. -- and now it's time for ME (i.e. 'US') to get a few things we want. That's why I've spent the last 15 months getting all this stuff listed in my profile (or, as Norton would say, "my pro-feel"!). Remember, in one of my initial posts on here (about the SP-15 I think), I mentioned I'm not a 'gear roller' (like some people are 'tube rollers'). The last setup I had was all obtained when I was overseas in the late 60's/early 70s up until last summer when things started crapping out. I saved up a long time for all this stuff and now I have what I've wanted for decades -- and am enjoying every minute of it. I have NO plans to upgrade anything once I'm all set up (and I'm about 95% there now). Btw, the only thing that would come close to the LC/Monks (or the same -- or possibly better) are the proprietary hand cleaning methods I mentioned way above, but like I said, I just don't want to spend the time and the effort anymore. Since I know how to clean most everything off labels and I know how to fix records which skip/stick (in addition to cleaning the playing surfaces of course), I know I'll never have a problem because I've been doing this f-o-r-e-v-e-r! Btw, I just spoke to Dale again this evening (for the nth time!). He's such a cool guy (can you say, "cool" anymore?!). He sent me a whole bunch of ICs/PCs to audition for the Saturn, but I guess I should leave that for the other thread (if I can find it again!). He's the kind of guy who would probably mail you his house to 'audition' if you were thinking of moving in! Can't thank you enough for the recommendation... Mike_____ |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 8554 Registered: Dec-04 | 'cool' still works, Mike. 'hep' is still available, but in limited quantities. Your reasoning for buying what you have always wanted is more than reasonable. Get away from the hand cleaning and sit down and listen to the music! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 5323 Registered: Feb-05 | Didn't I tell you Mike. Dale and Eugene HiFi appear to be one of the last (or first) of special kind relative to service...oh and I've been in his house you may not want to ask for more than you want!!!! Enjoy your new record cleaner...I can totally relate to the why...just not the means... |
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Platinum Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 11220 Registered: May-04 | . Clean to you heart's content, fellow Racoon. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mekongdelta69Grew up in Brooklyn an... Post Number: 68 Registered: Apr-07 | ...And a 'woo woo' to you too, oh Mighty Grand Exalted Ruler! |
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