Archive through September 29, 2006
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1364 Registered: Sep-04 | Bvan, The point I was making is that you shouldn't have to remember. It's much easier to notice that the hairs on your neck stand up and how much they stand up on one player versus anoter. If something affects you emotionally, it's more likely to stick. Example: I was comparing two top-flight record decks - Voyd 0.5 Reference with Graham arm vs Well Tempered Reference. Both had the same cartridge (Dynavector Te Kaitora - yes, very nice). Both retailed for similar money and both are excellent decks in their own right. However, they were very different. I remember the amazing detail, the phenomenal resolution, the teutonic grip and the absolute superiority of the Well Tempered. And yet, the Voyd's performance made me feel connected. It's a question of how it weaved the music together, the way it gave (elicited?) meaning to (from) the performances on the records. If I had had to choose between the two decks (I didn't) I would choose the Voyd. I felt that I got the true meaning of the music with the Voyd. The Well tempered was better in any technical aspect of the performance, but I never felt a thing. I marvelled at its technical brilliance, but I enjoyed the musical performances brought out by the Voyd. You'll note that with the Well Tempered my language is all about the deck, with the Voyd it's all about the music. It's easy to be impressed by an item's prowess at reproducing some aspect of a performance and this sells lots of kit because you can just point at the obvious change. It's more difficult to tap into emotion and latch onto that. That said, once you've tuned into that way of measuring performance, it becomes far easier to choose between kit... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4158 Registered: Dec-03 | This evening I listened to a radio broadcast on digital terrestrial (UK "Freeview"), and then on FM stereo. On FM stereo the music quickly became more important than the comparison. I was tempted to switch back to try to analyse why, but only briefly. |
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New member Username: UnagiPost Number: 7 Registered: Apr-06 | Bvan, Two pieces of advice. 1) Humans do not have the ability to remember sounds from hifi setups. However, you will be able to note down the enjoyment or disappointment. Digital amps sounded pretty harsh and uninviting to me, i noted in 1 of my previous audition. I cant recall how it sounds exactly or how detailed it will go or how much separation. We humans simply do not have this retention ability. Its proven somewhere. 2) How do u know if a setup is inviting and related to music? My answer is to go listen to more LIVE performances. They can be cheap pub performance of jazz n pop to a full scale concert. After listening to more live music, you will kindof understand details, soundstage and "warmth" for that matter, are simply not important at all. You will discover that pitching, rhythm, dynamics, analoguenism (is there such a word??) and emotion are what music is all about. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4194 Registered: Dec-03 | June 2006 Stereophile has a review of the Rega Apollo. I pass his on from J. Vigne, who informed me, on another thread. |
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New member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | Okay I just read everything from January 22nd until May 21 on this post. I own a Rotel RCC - 955 which I thought sounded sweeter than my Denon DCM - 370. I just added the Monster HTS 5100 Powercenter to my "A" system and everything got better, HDTV picture (only thing from my "C" system plugged into the 5100), soundstage, imaging, detail, tones, etc. It was a 15 to 20% improvement over what I was running with my Chang Lightspeed (since moved to my "B" system). Unfortunately it became fatiguing after about 15 minutes. I bought and inserted Purist Audio Elementa demo cables (replacing Nordost Black Knights) between my Rotel RCC-955 and my Creek Integrated Amp. It helped, but I could only listen for about 30 - 40 minutes. I decided to upgrade my CD player. It was strongly recommended that I get the Parasound CDP 2000 Ultra, but it is 5 - 6 years old. I decided after only reading reviews, Sterophile mag, and posts to get a Rega Apollo. (Am I the only one that did not know it is pronounced Reega and not Reaga?) I did find one at Holm Audio in suburban Chicago and listened to it for about 15 minutes. While it was nice I was not overwhelmed but it also was not in my system, so I bought it anyway. I suppose I really wanted it even before the demo. I will offer an opinion once it is shipped to me and I cook it for a couple of weeks. |
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New member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 2 Registered: May-06 | I really liked the way this review was presented. http://www.stereotimes.com/CD041106.shtm |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4208 Registered: Dec-03 | Michael, Great. That review is bit OTT but an interesting read. Units that leap out at you at dealer demos are never ones you want to live with. Let us know how you get on. By the way, the Apollo has a big bother coming along, the Saturn. |
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Silver Member Username: BvanCape Town, Copenhagen,... Post Number: 218 Registered: Jun-05 | thanks for that michael. can anyone give a fews words about the stereophile review? cheers b |
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New member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 3 Registered: May-06 | Thanks, John. I was aware of the Saturn but I believe the Apollo is a more reasonable fit to my existing system. If I were to move up from my Creek and Monitor Audios then I may want to marry a higher end CD player. That is probably years away as I expect to be satisfied for some time if the Apollo is what I expect. Bvan, Art Dudley wrote the Sterophile review on the Apollo. He highligthed the "cleanness" of the sound and was impressed with how good it was at its price point. Not that you could not get a better player if you wanted to pay a lot more. He strongly recommended it. The difference maker for me was the new technology that it brings. I feel I will have the latest/best for my money, that will be presented in a way that I want to hear my music. |
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Silver Member Username: BvanCape Town, Copenhagen,... Post Number: 219 Registered: Jun-05 | i notice the stereotimes review saying "Apollo's slight lack of ultimate....detail resolution" and "does it attempt to achieve hyper-detail" and the AudioEnz reviewer saying "the Apollo is detailed. Lavishly, gloriously detailed" makes me wonder. b |
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New member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 4 Registered: May-06 | The review I read in to above link makes a point of the Apollo not trying to create a "false" dynamic soundstage beyond what the media intended. I had a Lexicon Dolby Surround processor which had a "wide" and a "parasound" effects setting which could take a 2 channel media and expand the soundstage well beyond anything "normal" stereo could deliver. Perhaps that is what is meant, that the Apollo does not deliver an artificial depth and breadth of soundstage imaging. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4214 Registered: Dec-03 | There is a small feature of the Apollo that solves a problem on all my previous CD players (one Marantz; two NAD). My other players always inserted silence while they went looking for the next track in a programme, even if it was the next track on the disc. This was a real irritation, and just plain stupid when the recording was continuous, with the track numbers intended by the recording engineers only as index marks. On the Apollo, programming consecutive tracks gives playback of those tracks, without interruption. Simple. Good design. Made for listening to music. Like it. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2803 Registered: Dec-04 | John, I don't think I have heard a player in years that inserted a break between tracks. Say Aerosmith's 'pump', with rolling noise between tracks has always played through. Likewise, a new one'million dollar quartet'(which is fabulousBTW) is a 30 minute live gig and has 35 tabs. I played it just now after reading your post, on my Pioneer DVD and it played through. Engineering, maybe? Odd, but if that is a new improvement for you, I would agree that that feature is worth the price of admission alone. How horribly irritating the breaks would be between Opus, Concerto and Aria. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1338 Registered: May-05 | Nuck, I thought exactly what you're thinking right now. Then I saw a key word - programming. I think John is referring to when you program the CDP to play something along the lines of say tracks 2,4,5,7. Even if 4 and 5 doesn't have a blank space between them in regular mode, they will in program mode. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2815 Registered: Dec-04 | Doh! Of course I missed that, thanks, Stu! Apologies, John. Damn decaf! I''m gonna try my player. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4215 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes, that's it, Stu. It's OK, Nuck, I did not make it clear. Get a continuous CD like a "concept" album and program in, say, 3,4,5,6. See if you get 3-6 or 3pause4pause5pause6. I have no idea how common this problem is. All I know is my previous three players had it. I just stopped using programming. I have never seen this issue mentioned in specs or reviews. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1339 Registered: May-05 | John - Every CD player I've ever had or heard in program mode has this issue. I don't think it would be a difficult issue to address. I wonder why it's taken this long. At least one manufacturer has figured it out. Hopefully others will pay attention. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2839 Registered: Dec-04 | I tried with that cd I mentioned and the break is about a half second. Probably more annoying at volume than a 2 second pause. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4217 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks. I have no idea how common this problem is. Many people probably won't mind, or even notice. It was an issue for me with my first player in 1988, and I had got round to thinking all CD players has this problem. Not so the Apollo. An extra benefit. |
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New member Username: KommandoPost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-04 | Hi all, I am new to the forum. My Rega Apollo/Mira 3/R5 system are coming either today or tomorrow. Can't really wait! I have audition several times and decided to shell out the dough. I will post later regarding the out of the box and break in period. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1360 Registered: May-05 | Welcome to our forum. I'm interested in your thoughts regarding that combo, as that is one of the two systems I have in mind for a few months down the road. What type of music do you listen to? What is the new setup replacing? |
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New member Username: KommandoMt. Prospect, IL Post Number: 2 Registered: Jul-04 | Hi Stu Compared to my current set-up, the Rega will be a huge leap. I mainly use my current set up for HT and the integrated Denon 1906 is not musical, despite being a fantastic HT receiver for the money. The Universal player denon 1920 are quite good, when I use it to drive the Mira 3 during the in-home audition of the Rega set-up. The Monitor 5, is definitely no match for the R5 in every aspect, although I should not compare them. Anyway, my wife believes in "get once and get it over it" school of thought and I jumped on the oppotunity :-) Jazz, indi rock, folk are my favorites. Again, I will post again when my babies arrive. Keith |
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New member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 5 Registered: May-06 | Hello all again, A follow-up to my May 29th post. The Apollo was delivered on Friday. I unpacked it, tossed aside the power cord it came with and plugged in a Red Storm Power Cord (EC-RS001-3) with a Marinco IEC Connector (which I had made for me in advance from the folks at Element Cable). I also put aside the interconnects which were shipped with the CD player in favor of my Purist Audio Elementa interconnects. I then threw in a CD, left the amp off and went out for the evening. I did the same thing the next morning so the box had about 6 hours of play on it before I decided to listen to it. I used the same 8 songs I have used for the past few years to test out equipment. I started with Pink Floyd's "Pigs" from the "Animals" CD. Found out that there were instruments there that I had not known about. Followed that with Dead Can Dance's "Into the Labyrinth" the first 3 cuts. In the first one, "Yulunga" I could actually hear the pebbles inside the Maracas move when they were first picked up and again just after they stopped rattling them. Never heard that before. This would prove to be a continuous theme throughout my listening test. I heard echos that were not there before, asides from musicians were picked up, sort of like when you are in a movie theater and someone whispers to their girlfriend four rows back but you heard it as the movie became quiet at that very moment. The rest of my demos were Celine Dion's "The Power of Love" (which did not sound as bad a recording as it had in the past), "When The Levee Breaks" by Led Zeppelin (I use this to see how well it handles the guitars, very well), "Do What You Like" by Blind Faith (I use this to see how well it handles the drum solo. I now know when the Bass guitar stops and the Bass drum takes over), and lastly, and I use this only for amusement as many mid-level amps cannot deliver on this, Ben Folds Five's cut "Narcolepsy" from "The Unauthorized Biography of Reinhold Messner". This song just attacks, attacks, attacks. Waiting for certain passages is somewhat like watching the dentist's drill move in for the kill if you know what I mean. No problem with the Apollo, it wasn't as painful as I had etched in my mind. I also played some Enya, various 60's compiliations, and "Strong Persuader" from the Robert Cray Band for my wife. Even though I was not tuned in and in my ideal listening position, the Robert Cray CD found me. Lastly tonight I unsealed an SACD copy of "Dark Side of the Moon" (Floyd) and played it all of the way through. I wish I had taken notes for everything I noticed that I had not heard before. I could imagine how many and which strings were being picked on Gilmore's guitar. Overall I guess I really like the Apollo so far. It is more efficient than my Rotel RCC - 955 (and brighter) so I must learn to turn the volume down a bit. True to what I had read in reviews all tonal levels improved, very distinct and clear highs, in the room with you lifelike vocals, and a significantly lower floor for the bass. Where the first day I felt like I had moved from the 5th to 7th row down to the first row, tonight I felt like I was standing on the front of the stage just behind the footlights. That is how much presence the Apollo brings and that is not something that was noted (unless it was and I missed it or forgot) in any of the reviews I read. Since it could be expected to have interconnects, power cords, and speaker cable consistent with the level of your components I will not assume anything different from my "A" System configuration other than personal taste is much different than anyone else's. However the biggest eye-popping event for me was when I swapped out my Chang Lightspeed Power Line conditioner for the Monster HTS 5100 Powercenter. I would strongly urge anyone who has not already done so to either get one of these or at least a "neutral" power line conditioner from a high end audio supplier. I am certain that I am getting so much more from the Rega Apollo because I stumbled onto this first. Oh one last thing as if this post was not long enough already, by the time I got to "Us and Them" on the "Dark Side of the Moon" Pink Floyd SACD I listened to tonight (in 2 channel stereo), the speakers disappeared. It was all pure soundstage. Got to love that. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4227 Registered: Dec-03 | Michael; - I enjoyed reading that. Thanks. So many little, delightful things one never noticed before. It is especially striking with very familar material - things one thought one knew, but didn't. keith;- Looking forward to your comments, too! |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | Is it me, or is the Apollo surprisingly sensitive to the interconnects that you use with it? I was originally using Chord Chrysalis with this player but had the oportunity to pick up some Chord Solid off E-bay (of course!) for not much at all. The system crisped up a bit, and it sounds really clear at low levels but it can be a bit ear slicing once you start to hit the 11 o'clock position on the volume. If i recall correctly, the Planet had a similar sensitivity to interconnect, but that seemed to affect the mid range more than the treble. |
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New member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 6 Registered: May-06 | Wal, My experience is that it can be something else besides the CD player driving the "brightness fatigue". Before deploying the Apollo I had a Rotel CD changer for my primary CD listening and when I changed from my Chang Lightspeed power line conditioner to the Monster HT 5100 Power Center I could no longer use my Nordost Black Knight interconnects as they were overly bright. I switched over to the Purist Audio Elementa interconnects and that helped considerably. It improved even furhter when I replaced the Rotel with the Apollo as my primary CD player. Have you experimented with the Apollo's power cord? I did not use the plug it came with (see my previous post). I have only used the Purist Audio interconnects for the Apollo, but I am certain that my Nordost cables would no longer be suitable even with the Apollo. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1386 Registered: May-05 | Michael - I wasn't a believer in interconnects until I recently did an experiment at home comparing a few different ones. Now I believe that their are differences. However... I wouldn't change things around until you know what the "stock" version sounds like. By this, I mean I'd use the power cable and interconnect supplied by Rega. I've heard it's a pretty good interconnect and not one of the 'freebie afterthoughts.' My advice would be to get a solid base line of how Rega intended it to sound like, then start fine tuning it to your tastes. Generally speaking, Rega isn't a company that will use just anything nor the cheapest interconnect and power cable they can find/make. I'd imagine that they've put significant thought into what they've chosen. I'm not trying to bash you, but in essence what you're doing is like buying a new car and putting in 'better' parts before you've driven it. Realisticly, you'd have no idea what you've improved upon. The only way to know if you really upgraded for the better would be if you could compare what you started with in stock form to what you have now. |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 | I've just got Stu's posting, and i think he has a point. Admittedly, when i first took the Rega home for a demo, I did use the mains lead supplied and i only had the player for a day or two, but when i actually bought it, I swapped it for the TCI cable and i don't think i gave myself time to fully acclimatise to the change of cd player. Having said that, i was bouncing off the walls 'cos of the improvement!! The Apollo is streets ahead of my old mk 1 Planet, so therefore there is a definate improvement. It's probably more a case of fine tuning than upgrading. By the way Stu, i don't know if Rega supply better quality i/cs with the player to the U.S. market, but over here we get bell-wire with phonos on it! |
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New member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 7 Registered: May-06 | Stu, I do not know if you have an Apollo or seen what is provided with the package. I too, before receiving the unit thought to try the factory plug and interconnects and mentioned this to the dealer, Neil, at Holm Audio where I made my purchase. Neil advised that I should not even bother with the factory issued and go right to the upgrades. When the Apollo arrived and I opened it I could immediately see why he gave me such advice. The interconnects appear to be the same as you would get from a $50 (US) DVD player and the power cord looked just like the one I use for my HP printer. So I did not think twice about not using them. I don't know, but it could be that Rega expects purchasers to use interconnects and power cords of their own taste and supply baseline products "just in case". I will fire off an email to Rega to ask them about this and then let you know how they respond. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2904 Registered: Dec-04 | The i/c thing really gets to me sometimes. Agrand or whatever for the unit and the moldes plastic cables are Walmart quality. The Rotel 1072 came with batteries for the remote that worked for about 45 seconds. I opened the remote about a week later, and one of the cells was actually starting to leak! Cheeeeeep! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4253 Registered: Dec-03 | The question of "Cable sound" comes up. There is a whole topic on it here under "Accessories" - Cables. Here is an article by Jim Lesurf: Cable Sounds and uk.rec.audio. He argues that there are some special and exceptional cases, but, mostly, cables do not affect sound quality. It would be great to know what Rega has to say, in reply, Michael. The Apollo manual seems clear enough, to me: Interconnects An interconnect is included with your Apollo CD player, which provides entirely satisfactory performance. Audiophiles may wish to upgrade to a more exotic interconnect at a later stage, such as Rega's Couple. My reading of this is "If you want to spend more money on a different interconnect, feel free - we sell one, and so won't try to talk you out of it". Rega's own Couple has a quoted capacitance of 70 pF/meter. I guess the "out of the box" cable has a higher value. Lesurf considers a "worst case" with a 500 pF/meter cable with a source impedence of 500 Ohms - what matters is the product of these values, apparently. I can't find a quoted impedence for the Apollo. I suspect Rega knows what it is doing, and would not "spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar" by supplying a cable with the Apollo that is not up to the job. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2909 Registered: Dec-04 | Then Rega is miles(kilometers?) ahead of other is supplying proper cables with their fine players. Kudos! |
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New member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 9 Registered: May-06 | John A, Well I was all set to jump into the fray and state how I heard differences with upgraded speaker cables , interconnects, power cords, etc. using my own familiar material, and how there is a burn in period which is subtle but apparent to me. Then I spent the next hour or so chasing the links and their links from your article and have decided to leave my opinion to myself.  |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4256 Registered: Dec-03 | Michael, Everyone is entitled to his opinion, and we can only learn if people will share opinions and points of view. You are in good company, here - many people who have good and sensible things to say believe they hear clear differences between interconnects, for example. These include former dealers like Jan who have had the opportunity to make comparisons, and who seem to me to know what they are talking about. I don't hear it, and don't get it. It could be me! Burn-in is another issue again. For cables, I cannot understand how it could work. That does not mean it is not real - one can't just argue things away. There is an article in July HiFi news which claims to report evidence for cable burn-in, but I can't work out what the test was or how the author concludes there was any effect. So I am baffled. Lesurf is another guy who knows vastly more than I about electronics and HiFi. When people like him and people like Jan reach contrary conclusions, all the rest of us can do is judge for ourselves. I am still inclined to think Rega would not ship its new CD player with an interconnect that failed to show what the player will do. That is why I am interested to know what they say. |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 3 Registered: Jun-06 | i must admit to having been extremely sceptical for many years about the whole cable sound debate, mainly due to the fact that most demos that i had had were in dealer's shops, in unfamiliar rooms and on unfamiliar systems. However, upon transposing these interconnect/speaker/power cables into my own system, where all the failings and inadequacies are familiar, i found that the differences were night and day, the biggest shock of all of course, being the differences the power lead made. After all, it is 'just mains cable'! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4257 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, wal. Welcome. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2935 Registered: Dec-04 | I always found the power leads, and somewhat, the i/c question to be a bit esoteric, myself. When I started to go 'upscale' a bit, the reasoning and testing became rather more clear. Damm!. Why does more money beget more money, yet? Perhaps not Shakespeare, but current yet. |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 4 Registered: Jun-06 | I found I could hear the difference between interconnects on a system that consisted of a Marantz CD50SE (still going strong in my mums!), Cambridge Audio P70 amp and Castle Durham speakers, but this was a good few years before the whole issue of power leads was even thought of. I must admit though that i do still wonder just how many of all the add ons that are available under the "hi-fi tweaks" banner (Totem Beaks or system demagnetising cds, anyone?) would qualify as snake oil. Probably wise to maintain a healthy scepticism and occasionally be proved wrong, I think! |
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New member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 10 Registered: May-06 | John and Stu, et al., I did hear back from Rega and it comes to a mixed verdict. They expect that their power cord is quite adequate and suggest upgrading it only if you suspect a problem with your mains. Therefore I must defer to Stu and now agree that I should have at least tried to operate the CDP with the supplied power cord. I may at some time in the future test it out. My experience with power cords has been that the aftermarket cords have made a significant (definably noticable) positive difference in sound quality and in this case I elected to cut to the chase per se by using the Element Cable Red Storm Power Cord made for digital devices. They also felt that about 10% of their customers would use their suppied interconnects with everyone else changing out based upon personal tastes. As I communicated earlier, it is not my intent to further a debate. I obviously believe there is a benefit to what I do and therefore am willing to spend a certain amount of money on what I consider subtle improvements in my audio system. Perhaps others have found the same where they find better combinations for their unique system configuration. (In that where you live has a bearing on the quality of the electricty used to run your equipment, each system confgiuration is unique. [Short of high end battery / UPS / self generated power sources.]) Others may have had better luck dialing in a system or have better hardware to where further modification to the interconnects and or power cords either are neutral or diminish their listening experience. I may find the same to be true if I continued to experiment however once I get a certain level of satisfaction I tend to stop messing with it. There's a physcology to all this that I care not to get into. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4268 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Michael. Let me admit I changed interconnect. The one I now use is thicker, shorter, and has gold plugs. I try not to remember brands, and buy cables from electrical suppliers, not HiFi shops. I do think people are paying mostly for the name printed on the insulation. I replaced the original "just in case". I really could not hear a difference, but thought it would be wise, just in case there was one. And I wanted to get on with listening to music, not cables. I think many of us have this kind of insecurity. Partly one is paying for peace of mind. Then again, I have the TV receiver and DVD player connected to my amp with a common 10 meter interconnect of about the same grade as the Rega "in the box" cable, and I do think that degrades the sound. But I have not experimented because, at the moment, I do not want to reconfigure the system. The family watches TV, it sounds good. BTW I have not found June Stereophile; shops here are still carrying the May issue. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4269 Registered: Dec-03 | Further to Michael and Wek - I wonder whether the quality of the mains supply is a factor in the effectiveness of power conditioners etc. Here in UK the mains supply is mostly pretty good, and stable - no flickering lights, surges, or spikes. |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 5 Registered: Jun-06 | I agree with Michael. If you're not careful, you could end up being obsessed and listening to the hi-fi rather than the music. As for me, because I now have 2 very young boys and by no stretch of the imagination could be considered wealthy, every 6-10 years or so I'm allowed to upgrade a major item of hardware and then tune it in via interconnects or mains cable (or, on this occasion, second hand speakers as well). I get to 'play out'! So in the meantime, small, relatively affordable items like interconnects can help liven things up a bit when the sound gets a bit stale. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4272 Registered: Dec-03 | I agree, wal, and in a similar position myself. Including second-hand speakers. I think having good quality sound reproduction around is important for children. They can hear the words and music. They learn things. Mind, we've just bought daughter an iPod docking little device for her birthday, and it is truly grim. 2 W per channel. I leave a spare mini-jack input on the stereo amp but I think they all like convenience more than quality sound. Me, I'm in it for the music. But the system serves the TV and DVD player, too. We probably get the best sounding Dr Who for miles. |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 6 Registered: Jun-06 | Nice to converse with someone residing in the real world! There are certain other forums in which unless you've dropped upwards of £2K on a speaker cable alone, there is a definate hint that you've been discounted. But anyway, i must admit to having an Ipod myself, as it can be quite difficult to catch some music time at home, but i did treat myself to some Etymotic 6i in ear jobbies, to up the sound quality. Unfortunately, it upped it just a bit too much, to the point where it was starting to show up deficiencies in the hi-fi. Cue reckless abandon with the Visa and the Apollo arrived! I used to have the telly running through the hi-fi but the Missus don't like the telly sounding BIG, and it's also difficult to remotely control volume, as my amp doesn't have this facility. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1412 Registered: May-05 | Michael, et al - I'm definately not anti-cables. I was until recently though. Please see my interconnect thread - https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/231830.html My point in my previous posts here was that cables should be used to fine tune components. To really know how a component sounds, you should listen to it in stock form for a while, unless of course the supplied cables are absolute junk. Then, I'd suggest using a cable that you know well. By listening to the component in stock form for a while, you better understand its strengths and weaknesses. You have a better understanding what needs to be kept the same, and what needs to change. My recent cable experience leads me to believe that they should be used to fine tune a system, and aren't terribly effective at anything else. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 12 Registered: May-06 | Dang it Stu, now I had to go to Best Buy and pick up 2 pairs G-Snake 4.5 meter so I could get my HD Digital Cable box and Samsung SACD/DVD player to play better when I want to listen to Concerts or musical DVDs, etc. I did not want to spend more due to the limitations of my source hardware. I had simple gold tipped insulated RCA connectors doing the job as I do not consider a cable box or DVD player a priority for audio. Now like John A. and wal, I too may have the best sounding TV shows. For some reason my wife likes to listen to the video programming through my 2 channel "A" system instead of my 7.1 channel "C" system. (Yet she claims she can never hear anything different or special as I tweak and upgrade my audio. ;-] |
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Bronze Member Username: Jack_dotsonPost Number: 14 Registered: Mar-06 | My turn to chime in here. I've been into this hobby for about 30 years and could not start to list all the equipment I've owned. I was always in the camp that thought all cables basically sounded the same and that all I needed to do was ensure my cables were of good quality with good connectors, preferably gold plated. Afterall, this is what I read time and again. Cables were a psuedo effect. Snake oil if you will. I switched from the stock cheapo cables that came with the equipment to "good quality" mainstream Monster cables (I think this is where everybody starts) and I heard little, if any difference. So based on this experience I agreed that cables basically sound the same and make little or no differnce. I went on this way for years, buying some pretty expensive equipment and using the same old cable that I bought a number of years ago. Then a few few months ago I bought a Naim CD5i and Arcam AVP-700 and the dealer wanted me to take his cables home for a no obligaion test. Didn't charge me, told me to take as long as I wanted and that if I didn't like them to just bring them back. These were some pretty high dollar cables and I told him that I thought cables made little difference so it would be best not to waste our time. But, he really encouraged me to at least give them a try. He was sure I would hear a big difference. Told me my run of the mill Monster wasn't very good and that he wasn't surprised I couldn't hear the difference. I had nothing to lose so I brought them home. I originally hooked my new equipment up with the cables I had as I wanted to hear the difference the components made in my system. So I let the cables lay around for a couple of weeks, then one weekend I decided to roll them in. Not expeting much, I put a set between the CPD and pre-amp and left all other cables as they were. Turned everything on and could not believe what I heard. This one change of a singel pair of cables made an unbelievable difference. I just could not believe it. Told myself; you've been subject to the power of suggestion. Rolled the old cables back in and the magic was gone. I'm not talking about wanting to hear something so I did. I'm talking a major difference. I'm talking a drastic change in the depth and width of the soundstage. The music and instruments came out into the room with air around them like I had never heard before. Bass had more detail, piano's had more weight and the voices just sounded so real. Anyhow, you get the idea. I'm a convert and in a big way. I thought at fist he had provided me with a cables like no others. But, Pandora's box had been opened. I bought a couple of sets of well known cables from Audiogon (Chorus Cobra and Nordost Blue Heaven)and both sounded different from his cables and mine, so it wasn't just those cables. I learned there is a difference in cables. Maybe the equipment I had before didn't provide the resolution to enable me to tell the difference, I don't know. But I do know that I can easily tell the difference with my current arrangment. Like someone else said, you buy the equipment then use the cable to tweak to the sound your looking for. Some are warm, some are etched, some roll of the highs, some lows, etc., etc. The trick is to find the right combination to acheive the sound "you" are looking for. I was a non believer and now I feel I've cheated myself for years as I know there is a differnce. And with some cables it's not small at all. I don't care what other say, I know what I know and I hear what I hear. And, with decent equipment I'm sure you will to. BTW, my latest are Eichmann eXpress-6 IC's. Talk about a difference maker. Bang for the buck cables that can run with the best of them. Best I've tried so far. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3388 Registered: Feb-05 | Well said Jack and I thank you for your comments. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1507 Registered: Oct-04 | Jack: I do not doubt for an instant that your upgraded cables give you much more listening enjoyment. And I'm very happy for you. My wife and I have had the rather unique experience of being able to compare a dozen brands of interconnects at one time - thanks to a major "loan" from a recording engineer-friend out in LA. We spent hours and hours and hours - and in the end determined that good, mid-grade cables gave us about the best sound we could or would afford. All the multi-thousand-dollar cables went back FedExpress (insured). I would not for an instant doubt your results - but for the two of us, cables from Blue Jeans or Cobalt Cables have proven their worth - and at quite modest cost. I do not and will not "argue" the point(s) you raise. Many of the folk on these Forums disagree with me, and so be it. But I simply do not buy into the concept that Big Buck cables make any appreciable difference - WITH MY LEVEL OF ELECTRONICS. Aha! See? There's a leveling factor right there. I run a Cambridge Audio DVD87 with a NAD 763 receiver and B&W 705 mains. Add a Mordaunt Short sub and some insignificant surrounds which we only use for movies, and you get the picture. A month ago, I returned a set of 5.1 analog cables that cost, as I understand, a total of $3,565 to my friend. And put back the Blue Jeans cables. To our ears, there was NO difference. With my gear. In our room. Art - it sounds as though you agree with Jack on the "more expensive is better" camp. If it works for you, well, God bless you, sir! If I could find even one set of hi-end cables that simply blew me away, I'd hock my autographed baseball collection and buy them! (grin) But I have yet to find that Cable Nirvana. Respecfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1508 Registered: Oct-04 | All: I think this link to a Cobalt Cables info sheet pretty much sums up my cable philosophy. And yes, I do use Cobalts on about half of my system - the rest are Blue Jeans. http://www.cobaltcable.com/pdfs/Common%20Cable%20Myths%20Explained.pdf |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3389 Registered: Feb-05 | "Art - it sounds as though you agree with Jack on the "more expensive is better" camp. If it works for you, well, God bless you, sir!" Larry, Jack didn't say that and neither would I. Better is better, sometimes that means more expensive sometimes it doesn't. I too have been blessed to have many cables in my home...recently and with every change I heard a difference. Often the difference was quite startling sometimes just subtle...but always different. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1509 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: Wellll -Jack talks about his "pretty high dollar" cables sounding much better. Hmm. . .His latest Eichmanns are $200 a pair for interconnects, which is quite a bit more expensive than my Blue Jeans Cables! (though admittedly not in the thousand-dollar category) And from what I've read in the past, sir, your forays into cable-land have led you to some fairly expensive bits of copper! (grin) Not trying to argue - but it just "appears" that more expensive is better comes sneaking through. If I'm totally off-mark - then I extend my apologies to you for mis-stating your position. I have been known to be wrong. . . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3390 Registered: Feb-05 | You did indeed mis-state my position. I have on a number occasions stated that the amount of money spent on cables does not necessarily correlate with sound quality. It often does but not always. There is no substitute for careful system matching and that happens to include cables. Well it's bedtime. More on this another time I suppose. Enjoy the rest of your evening Larry. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1510 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: Sorry. I apologize. It just seems to me that anytime I hear somebody talking about "better" cables - well, they cost more than his previous ones. I have never read anywhere (that I remember) that someone got "better" sound by going down a grade or two in cables. Just a thought - and I'm NOT saying that I read that in any of your posts, Art. Anyway - enough - I apologize again, Art. |
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Bronze Member Username: Jack_dotsonPost Number: 15 Registered: Mar-06 | Larry, for clarification; what I said was the dealer loaned me "his" high dollar cables, which of course he was trying to sell to me, but I did not buy. These weren't thousand dollar cables, but they were about five hundred a pair, which is more than I'm willing to spend for the level of components I own. They were very good, but they were solid silver and had an edge to them that didn't suite my taste or match my components. Detail galore, and with tubes or really warm equipment they would have been great I'm sure. Five hundred bucks great, sure, why not if you can afford it. The Eichman's, which are by far my favorites so far, are indeed $200 a pair. But, I bought mine from Audiogon used and got two pairs for just over $200. A steal for what these cables offer. I've also purchased several other pairs of cables on AG, but will resale the one's I don't keep and should only lose what it cost for shipping, maybe a little more. Buying used is a good way to try various cables as the depreciation has alread occured. Most cables seem to sale for about 50% of their retail, somtimes better, sometimes a little worse. I've not tried the Cobalt or Blue Jean cables, but I've heard very good things about both and would like to try them sometime. BTW, I have a pretty modest system myself: Naim CD5i source, Arcam AVP-700 pre-processor, Outlaw Model-755 multichannel amp, Sony NS999ES DVDP, SVS 20-39 Pci sub, Energy Veritas 2.3i mains, Energy 2.0Ci center and Sonance in-ceiling surrounds. A multi-purpose system built to fit many needs, but with compromises. For music I'm strictly a two channel guy. The Arcam goes into stereo direct, no sub, etc. But back on topic; the main thing I was trying to say, and as Art pointed out, was that most cables sound different. I don't think there is such a thing as a "best" cable, as it all depends on how the cables work within the sytem. It's all about system synergy, and cables play a key role. I've also read many articles which claim that in a controlled DBT all CDP's sound the same. Same thing for amp's, pre-amp, etc. According to these fellows we can all just buy an all in one Panasonic system, add speakers of our choice and have it as good as it gets. :-) . |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 7 Registered: Jun-06 | A point was made earlier about no-one downgrading their i/cs to get a better sound from their system. Well, just to be awkward and controversial(!), it may interest you to know that at the moment i'm in a bit of a quandary as to whether the Chord Solids currently residing in my system are maybe adding too much sharpness in the treble. If so, then back comes the Chord Chrysalis! Don't get me wrong, I do think that on the whole, the Solid is a better cable, but in the context of my system and also the room it resides in, when approaching high volumes, the treble can sting too much. A shame, because at low volumes the clarity and cohesion is impressive. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1512 Registered: Oct-04 | Jack: thanks for the clarification, sir! I must admit that I approach this cable issue with more than a small amount of cynicism. A year ago, my wife and I were the "recipients" of a dozen different brands of both interconnects and speaker cables - thanks to a friend in LA who makes his living in recording studios. Anyway - we tried our best to do a blind test (probably totally impossible) with everything from cables that cost several thousand dollars a pair to simple "big box" cables we used as "base reference points." After two long days - we determined first that our ears probably weren't as good as many people's are. Second, we did not have gear of quality that could differentiate between one "sound" and another. Third, that the cables we finally chose were considered "low-end" by reviewers we have read. For speakers - we DID note that 12awg stranded ones gave us more serious bass than the 16awg stuff called "speaker cable" in stores. We bought runs of 12awg Blue Jeans Cable - and have been very happy. Interconnects - we went through names I can't even remember down to our big-box mini-wires. I will have to say that the OEM wire gave us a somehow "constructed" sound - but from that point on up, we just couldn't tell much difference. We finally settled - again - on Blue Jeans Cables. then, about six months ago, there was a local estate sale - at some now-gone rich audiophile's home. I got there too late to snag any great equipment bargains, but I did find a "snake box" full of all sorts of wire, connectors and knobs. Pawing through it I noticed a set of 5.1 Cobalt analog interconnects. I offered the salesperson $10 for them - and she said: "fine - nobody knows what they are, anyway!" So - I now have a set of $190 Cobalt interconnects and my $80 set of Blue Jeans Cable interconnects. My wife and I have traded them back and forth, but still cannot tell any difference. Perhaps you, or Art or the rest of the Forum mates could easily prove me wrong - I just do not know. I'm afraid I did mis-state Art's position, for which I am sorry. I probably kept my fingers in high gear, and my brain in neutral. Again. . . Wal: Please, sir, I'm at a total loss to figure out what "cohesion" is in cable-talk. I read so many descriptions of various "kinds" of sound with different cables - and am flummoxed by them all. I shall research your cables, for I've never heard of them before. I need, and try, to learn. . . Perhaps I'd just better give up and slink back to my cave! (grin) |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 8 Registered: Jun-06 | The most confusing hi-fi term for me when i first stated my hi-fi hobby, was "colouration". Excuse me? Has somebody had the felt tips out? Cohesion has three syllables which, for me, is impressive! Look it up in the audio directory alongside 'Gunglepin','Oohjah' and 'Howsyafatha', not to mention 'Duberry'. Yes, i can almost see it now; "The extreme top end was sweet, but with a subtle Duberryness that was commented on by some of the listening panel. However, this effect could be tuned out by applying a Gunglepin to the unused phono sockets on the back of the amp"! But seriously folks, by Cohesion I just meant that everything seems to be hanging together more clearly. probably a better word would have been 'focus' as in "the soundstage had more..." The Chord Solid is a bargain that i picked up on ebay for £26. It was originally around £120 but Chord Company don't make it anymore. It's so called because the ground wire is made from a one piece extruded copper tube and the hot wire is also single core copper wire running coaxially through it, which of course means that it's stiff as a board, and it utilises those sexy Neutrik phonos that are spring loaded so that they connect to earth first. The tonal differences between it and the Chrysalis are not at all subtle, with the cheaper cable sounding all soft and fuzzy around the frequency extremes in comparison, but that might just be what my living room needs, what with it having brick walls, a highish ceiling and a laminate floor. for £26 I figured that you can't lose! ;) |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1514 Registered: Oct-04 | Wal: Thanks for the explanation - both tongue-in-cheek and real-life! (grin) enjoyed that. Your Neutrik phono connectors sound very much like the Canares that my Blue Jeans Cables have - very tight, yet easy to on-and-off. Ah, your listening room - I have rather the same sort of problem: high ceilings, plaster walls and a huge open area instead of a "regular" room. Although I do have carpet, the area is still quite "live." thanks for your response! I appreciate it. |
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Bronze Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 59 Registered: Aug-04 | I use Cobalt Interconnects, Power Chords and their Ultimate Speaker cables in my system. My Rega Apollo has the Cobalt Power Chord and Interconnects hooked up to it. I find them sounding a bit better than the cables (power and IC) Rega provided. More detailed, smoother, more presence in the soundstage and I think they (the Cobalt Cables)look real cool : ) On the other hand, my buddy brought over some very expensive XLO/VDO Interconnects and Cardas interconnects, which we tried with the Apollo. Neithee one of us could hear any difference with the Cardas and oddly, we both felt the XLO/VDO sounded like crap. Everything sounded dirty ...or unclear. This is not the first bad listening experience I have had with XLO/VDO. Personally, I think their cables are worthless pieces of trash. Over-priced, over-rated and very high on the total rippoff catagory. The Cobalt cables sound fantastic in every application and perform beautifully. Did I mention they also look cool? Just my opinons, based on my personal experience (and experiecne of a few close friends. Your milage may vary. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1605 Registered: Feb-04 | All: I think this link to a Cobalt Cables info sheet pretty much sums up my cable philosophy. And yes, I do use Cobalts on about half of my system - the rest are Blue Jeans. http://www.cobaltcable.com/pdfs/Common%20Cable%20Myths%20Explained.pdf Great link! They have balls to publish that text... Even myth #6 is popular on this forum. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4276 Registered: Dec-03 | Wal; Like it! You must have been reading Stereophile, again. Peter;- Great. About No. 6; there is an article in July HiFi News claiming to prove interconnect cable break-in. The statistics are bogus. Instead of assuming no difference, and looking for the probability that this is incorrect, the author starts by agonising about which set to choose as the "reference". Not surprisingly, he then concludes the reference cables are best. But the test was not completely clearcut, so he is going to repeat it until it is..... Next installment next month. No, I am not making this up! |
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New member Username: KommandoMt. Prospect, IL Post Number: 3 Registered: Jul-04 | Hi all Looks like every body is going bare knuckle in a different topics. Just kidding guys, I will not get involved in this debate although I will voice my opinion about my experience. So, I have been having my Apollo/Mira3/R5 with Chord Crystalis IC (ahem) and Naim speakers cables for about 1 week now. The speakers are still breaking in although my dog have the benefit of listening to radio 8 hours a day since the system arrival. So, Am I blown away? The answer is yes. The entire systems sounds good out of the box. I auditioned the exact same set up at home few weeks ago. The music is alive. As Michael described, the sound stage is amazing but it is the resolution that wows me every time with most familiar CDs. The CDP is also absolutely quiet while running. The Mira 3 with only 60 wpc is more than adequate for my listening area, which is far far from perfect: a corner/section of a 30ft x 30 ft room. The R5's are still breaking in but sound fantastic. Unfortunately, I cannot and will not be able compare AB against another set of speaker since the other pair that I own is Paradigm monitor 5 for HT, and as I mentioned in previous post, there should be no comparison. I always wonder at the retail price of my R5, would another pair would do a better job? I believe in synergy of the Apollo/Mira, why not go for the R5? In addition, After all, it is beautiful with real wood veneer (WAF) that matches our floor. Now comes the cable/interconnects. I love Rega products so far but if I were in charge, I would not put their stock interconnect in the box. The stock one, like some one already mentioned, looks like a Radioshack clearance item. My old playstation 1 has better audio cable. It is not intended for the market of the $50 CD player from the people who will not know what to do if they open the box of a $1000 CD player and not found an IC. Enough about how it looks. I bought the Chord Crystalis at the same time of the components so the stock flies back to the box immediately upon hook up. Not until the debate/discussion of this forum, I then dig up the stock and decide to try it out. To much of my surprise, the stock sounds decent. When I blind test the stock IC against the 1m Crystalis, I preferred the Crystalis 4 out 5 times, but the difference is subtle. The piano and acoustic bass are cleaner but vocals (Diana Krall, Elliot Smith, Harry Cornick JR, Natalie Cole...) show no noticeable difference. I am rather impressed with such an uggly thing! Well, if I listened to the stock first like recommendation from some posts in this forum, would I still buy the Crystalis (which I am keeping)? Tough question, but in the end, I think I still do, consider the decent price of Crystalis in comparison to the total system price. I still need help from the forum. The dealer recommend me to leave the CDP and int amp on at all time! They say both the CDP and Int amp will need half an hour or even more to be running at full potential. I did not hear them wrong but what is everyone else opinion about this? I am turning them on in the morning but turn them off at night. The amp gets warm to a certain degree and stay at the same temp when I leave it on. Any instruction/advice is welcomed! I am sneaking out to the CD store again! BTW, the Naim Label CD collections are fantastic. |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 9 Registered: Jun-06 | Hey, I was glad to have been of service. Sometimes the subject of hi fi can get a little dry and dusty if you know what i mean, so now and again i reckon it's good to take the p**s! I will return with more ill conceived opinions tommorow, cos it's time for my beddie boh's. I know this, cos i nodded off during the second half of the Germany Poland game and missed the winning goal! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3394 Registered: Feb-05 | Myth #6 is only a myth to those who have not experienced it. Pretty much the same for a whole lot of the audio thing. People at work think that I am dealing in myth because I can tell the difference between my system and their 30 yr old Lloyds with an integrated AM/FM/cassette/record player. Had they actually listened to my system I might take offense but since thay haven't experienced it I forgive them their ignorance. Break in or burn in exists I've heard it and recently. You can choose to believe it or not and that's ok (were still friends right Peter...lol!). Frankly it is in the best interest of companies that produce low end cables to hope that you don't really believe that you can do better. Tough sell otherwise... |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1610 Registered: Feb-04 | Art, it's certainly a myth that cable break-in is caused by re-aligning molecules by the electrical current. There's no way to prove a negative, so it doesn't prove that you can't break in a cable. It just means that if you can, that's not the reason. Frankly it is in the best interest of companies that produce low end cables to hope that you don't really believe that you can do better. Tough sell otherwise... Since they start at $70 per interconnect, I don't think of them as low end cables. ;-) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3395 Registered: Feb-05 | Peter, do some research on cables...trust me a $70 cable is a low end cable. It ain't Radio Shack or Recoton but it's low end. I never bothered with the reasoning behind cable differences or how burn in works because I don't care. The only thing that is essential for me is knowing that the differences exist and that burn in does take place. Those are the things I need to know when trying to put together a system. Have a great evening Peter. BTW how are those big corner horns doin'? I haven't heard those in years I'm going to have to hear them again soon.... |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1516 Registered: Oct-04 | Wowzer, it sure is good to know that I'm down in the gutter, cable-wize! (grin) But then, growing up, I never knew we were poor until I got to see "the other side of town!" Hmm. . . Only teasing here - youze guyz obviously know and hear more than I do - so I give you great huzzahs for happy listening. BTW - I don't know if this would hold true for any and all brands - but I do hear a difference in sound quality if I leave my CD player - and especially my NAD receiver - on for about 20 minutes before I start listening. Strange - I don't understand why this should be, but I do hear a positive difference. As for "break-in" - well, I was a good boy and "broke in" my new Cambridge CD player for a day before listening. Did it make any difference? How the heck should I know? I love the player, "broken in" or not! (double grin) As long as it's not "broken DOWN!" |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1517 Registered: Oct-04 | All: Sorry - my comments had nothing to do with the Rega - outta here, with respect. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1614 Registered: Feb-04 | Art, I'll never spend as much on an interconnect as I do for the entire player. That's just doesn't make sense to me. Better to spend more on the player in the first place. The corner horns will have a new home soon, with two good corners and a bit more room depth to breathe. But first I'll have to finish the basement to take full advantage of it! A lot of work ahead. |
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New member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 10 Registered: Jun-06 | Peter, as regards your philosophy on cable burn in and the PDF file that accompanied it, i would consider it dangerous to assume that because something isn't physically measurable, it can't be proven, therefore it's loblocks. It would be easier to say that it can't currently be measured and therefore can't be proven either way. Just to give a flat statement like an effect can't be measured, therefore it doesn't exist, is to deny that it could ever be measured or proven to exist in the future. Technology moves onwards and upwards, and at a fast rate of knots, especially where commercial interests are concerned. However, the flipside to this coin is, of course the snake oil industries, who will of course use this argument to validate their product, and I must admit that i suspect that this particular hobby has more than it's fair share of those. I remember a character from the seventies and early eighties who advocated bits of coloured silver foil being wrapped around and placed under items and in certain positions of the listening room, and his argument was that if you 'perceived' a difference then it was worthwhile purchasing his products. However not everyone did. Only two syllables admittedly, but a brilliant catch-all expression nonetheless, the idea being to avoid being labelled a charlatan. Didn't stop people calling him one though!! |
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Bronze Member Username: WalrileyLiverpool, Merseyside U.k Post Number: 11 Registered: Jun-06 | Corner horns? God, i'd love to hear them!! |
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New member Username: KommandoMt. Prospect, IL Post Number: 4 Registered: Jul-04 | Hi, I just got the official words from Rega regarding leaving the components on: They agree that leaving it on at all time will give optimal performance. However, it only takes 15-20 mins to "warm up". In addition, leaving it on at all time will effectively reduce lifespan of equipment. OK, I am turning my baby off from now on and only leave them on once I get home from work. In addition, I don't want to be caught in the line of fire, but we need to tone down the cable /IC debate with respect to the thread starter. How about a new thread under a new subject "The UFC of OFC"? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3397 Registered: Feb-05 | "Art, I'll never spend as much on an interconnect as I do for the entire player. That's just doesn't make sense to me." I hear ya. I wouldn't either. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4293 Registered: Dec-03 | June 2006 "Stereophile" finally arrives in UK. Their review of the Apollo is the first real review I have seen, with test results and extensive listening reports. It also explains more than the rest, including some of the things that are happeneing during "Initialisation". Like determining the optimal level of error correction for the particular disc. Review recommended to anyone thinking of buying this CD player. Also note the Saturn has arrived, as announced on the Rega web site. Thread: Rega Saturn |
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New member Username: GbmcleodPost Number: 3 Registered: Sep-05 | I had Googled for comments on the Rega Apollo. Read 'em, and then bought it. The system it is placed in has Nordost Interconnects (Frey), Transparent Super MM speaker cables, and a Vincent SV-236 integrated with Alon Viper Elite speakers. The room is acoustically corrected with ASC Tube Traps, a couple of Real Traps and some diffusers. On this system, which is fairly hi-rez, the quality of the Apollo is pretty stunning. I've only had the player in use for 14 hours (left on overnight), but I can say that it's quite, quite good. I'm listening to the RCA Living Stereo CD of La Traviata with Anna Moffo, and a few Mercury Living Presence CDs, and I would say that the Rega is significantly better than My Ah! Super 4000, the Meridian 508.24, the Arcam Alpha 9 or even most of the other kilobuck players I've heard recently. The most obvious trait, to me, is how quiet the noise floor is. One can clearly hear easily into the recording environment, so much so that sounds outside the studio (i.e., trucks and cars driving by) are quite easily heard, and I've played La Traviata quite a bit in this system. I expect a low noise floor on the newest equipment, but this is far lower than any of my previous players, or even ones I've listened to, such as the Ayre CD player, which costs around $3000.00. The separation of voices in the opera chorus also exceeds previous players. So far, the bass seems slightly undefined, but the player is quite new. What is not arguable is how coherent the player is: from upper bass to the low treble, all of the musical sounds are the same. What I mean by that is, that if you listen to a piano going up and down the scale, unlike many other CD players the piano doesn't sound clear in one range (say, the upper bass range), and then become murkier or harder/thinner sounding as one ascends into the upper ranges (say, where the keys sound "tinkly"). It [the Apollo] maintains the same character all the way up and down the keyboard. And it does this with voices, too, so bass, baritone, mezzo-soprano, soprano, etc. all sound like themselves, and even MORE fun, even when Anna Moffo is closer to the mike and singing loudly, I can still hear Richard Tucker's voice, notes and tone without any strain whatsoever. I'm more used to a player losing a little bit of the clarity when two singers sing simultaneously, or, at least, blurring the exact note that one of the two singers is singing, so that I can kinda hear the note, but not without focusing on it. With the Apollo, I can be reading the National Enquirer (heh heh) and still hear the singer without effort. Niiiiice!!!!! The imaging is good (not quite 3-D yet), but the soundstage itself is considerably deeper than previous players. Not especially great width, but given how superior the sense of ambience is, the scale of the recording environment is bigger, as I expect it would be when the presentation is coherent. Many players seem to only have ambience retrieval in the mids, but none in the highs or the bass (turntables suffered from the same fate, in retrospect, even the good ones I had, such as the SOTA and the Versa Dynamics player, which was once proclaimed the "best player in the world" [it should have been: at its peak, it cost $15,000]). The Rega has it in all the frequencies, although, listening lower then the upper bass, the jury is still out on that one. What's more interesting is that it clearly places people behind each other. Now, this is not an effect that is new to me, but the space BETWEEN the singers is blacker, not connected by a sort of "fog" or, as others have written, a haze. Very nice player! I'd considered a Bluenote Stibbert, the darling of the High End, and who knows, I may get one. The nice thing is that now I have a point of reference as to how much better players are going to have to be to get me to spend $4,000 on them! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 15 Registered: May-06 | Glen, Nice read, thanks. An Apollo distributor informed me that 200 hours is a good break in timeframe. I was struggling with lower bass but thought it my speakers, not the Apollo. First though I tried more power. I have a Creek 5350 SE Integrated rated at 85 wpc. I took the Pre-Amp out into my old, old, Carver M-4.0t rated at 375 wpc. The bass showed up immediately, and after about an hour of listening, the Carver warmed up (sonically) and I was presented with excellent detail. Not what I expected from an older piece of gear that had been sitting around gathering dust.  A couple of other factors is my use of the Monster HTS 5100 Power Conditioner and I just picked up Black Diamond Racing Cones M3s (3 under the Apollo) and M4s (3 under the amp). The Monster HTS 5100 gave me a broader soundstage and believe it or not the Cones provided even more clarity. As to the depth of the soundstage, on Led Zeppelin IV (aka ZOSO), Track 8 - When the Levee Breaks, I thought Page was singing directly into my left ear! Sorta spooked me. On Tool - 10,000 days, Track 1 - Vicarious, a guitar riff appeared right behing my head. The later CD is an excellent source for testing bass, as it is very detailed and Tool did an outstanding job of producing vibrant tracks (matter of taste perhaps too). To everyone else, What would be a good forum to discuss the value or correct hierarchy of component upgrades? What I am trying to identify is my next step to improving my system. Is it speakers? I am going to review Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1s. Should I perhaps consider a tube pre-amp? I was thinking about a Rogue Audio 99 (Magnum). Or is it the amp? Here is where I really get confused as my Carver is rated 375 wpc yet I have to turn the volume control up higher on my Creek for it than when I used the Creek integrated amp. At the same time, my old Carver sounds better which is not logical to me considering technological advances over the years and such. Where dealers tend to tell me to upgrade to their products, I have a respected repairman telling me to refurbish my Carver. Again, any help in pointing me to where I can sort this out would be most appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4347 Registered: Dec-03 | Very good comments, Glen and Michael. I find it difficult to put words to these things, but I must be hearing what you hear, I agree with all you say. Every part of the audio spectrum seems right, focussed, and in balance. I have also noticed with the Apollo that there seems to be a much wider stereo "sweet spot" - the image stays put whereever I sit, just as if the performers are really there, and not minding me. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3204 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi Michael. Why not open a thread in amps for your heirarchy thread? I would like to follow. The volume Q is likely the Carver accepts a higher input voltage than the creek, so underpowering the input for the Carver. No harm done(with 375w)! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 23 Registered: May-06 | A couple of days ago I unhooked my Rega Apollo and carted it off to a local dealer to get a better idea of how speakers I was considering for purchase sounded with the Apollo. I did not think the CD player he had was enabling me to hear what I needed to hear on my previous visit. We discussed the Apollo and I agreed to leave it with him so he could form his own opinion of the player. The next day I returned to find that he had spent a good deal of time with it, comparing it to his preferred player, switching amps, cables, etc. This time we moved the Apollo into the best configuration / room he had set up in his shop. He was using a CD/DVD combo to model against the Rega. Playing Madeleine Peryoux and Diana Krall depicted some characteristic differences. The combo player more forward, the Apollo more laid back and warmer. It was when I popped in Led Zeppelin IV and selected track 8, "When the Levee Breaks" did the Apollo strut its stuff. This CD has been around the block a few times and has the wear to show for it. The combo player floundered a bit with some of the guitar riffs as well as imaging. The Apollo handled it as easily as it did the pristine conditioned Peryoux and Krall CDs. It really shined with George Winston's "Winter into Spring". The piano rang out and the notes floated on air throughout the audition. The Apollo was set up with $1K Interconnects and a Van Devers Power Cord. I also supplied Black Diamond Racing Pyramid Cones -- M3 for isolation under the player. I believe the Apollo made a very positive impression (beyond the Zep CD) and hopefully there will be at least one (more?) dealer in my area to carry this player. The only objection offered, geared more towards the Saturn at its price point, is that it does not support SACD. In fact another customer came in and auditioned the system with his reference CDs, primarily jazz, and combos. He wanted to know more about the Apollo as well. |
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New member Username: BigmuddiePost Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | I listened to the Apollo last Saturday at my local shop in Tempe, AZ. I orginally went in the listen to the Cambridge 640 because I was looking for a budget Cd player. The owner suggested that I also listen to the Apollo. You would think there would not much of a difference between a $650 player and a $999 player. The Apollo is by far the best of this class of player. Where the Cambridge was thin and harsh, the Apollo was smooth at the high end. The mid section was also much better. The only complaint I would make of the Apollo is the bass is not very tight. The bass did not have that toe tapping appeal that the other players I auditioned seemed to have. I also listened to a Quad and to the Audio Research CD3. The Apollo easily was better than the $1500 Quad. The Apollo was much better in the mid and high end but still lacked a little in the bass. Lastly, the salesman said lets listen to the Audio Research CD3 and see what $5500 will buy you. No question about it. The Audio Research CD3 was far and above better than the Apollo in all phases. It is in my estimation the best cd player I have ever heard. That is not to say the Apollo is chopped liver. It is a very good player in and slightly above the price class it competes in. If money were no object, I would buy the Audio Research CD3 no hesitation. |
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New member Username: BigmuddiePost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-06 | Hi all, Just reading all the cable posts. I for one have tried a few different cable schemes over the years to see if any of them made a difference in the sound quality. The one difference I did find is when I experimented with the speaker wires. Currently I am using mission speaker wires that go from my Audiolab 8000P amp to my Celestion SL6si speakers. I am very happy with that sound. I tried a couple of tweaks with the speaker wires and I found that there was a difference, but all it did was to make the system sound worse. The first thing I did is to run a 3 meter pair of solid core 22 gauge single strand wire from the amp to the speaker. The effect was immediate. The mids and the highs improved dramtically. Oh, I also must mention I did this test when I had my Linn Sondek turntable, which I no longer have. I very much liked the sound except there was no bass. The bass became very attenuated to the point of not being there. Interesting. I next tried a 3 meter set of what was called stove wire. It is 12 gauge wire. The effect was similar in that in tended to boost the low end while making the mids and highs muted. What do I think about all the talk about cables? They may help some systems and hurt others. But any help they give is more do to the overall inductance of the cable. Which means the particular cable is creating a bandpass that does not match the output of the source or the amp. I think anything else is purely subjective and is up to the individual to decide for themselves. |
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New member Username: BigmuddiePost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-06 | I would to correct a misstatement in the last post. I wrote inductance when I should have wrote impedance. I was thinking more about the whole cable thing. I would like to see spectrum analzyer outputs of any source before and after attaching a cable or interconnect to it. This should tell us once and for all exactly what if any thing the cable is doing to the source output. Another idea about whether there is any subjective difference in cables or interconnects is the shape and size of your listening area. I assume I am not telling any of you what you do not already know. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4411 Registered: Dec-03 | Last week I received out of storage some CDs which I have owned for ten to twenty years but not played for the last two. Over the weekend I took the opportunity to play some selected, familar tracks on my new system, using both the Rega Apollo and the NAD T533 (used mostly for DVD replay) as CD player sources. There is a marked difference in sound quality, and the Apollo wins in every respect - there is no trade-off. To my mind can be summarised as greatly improved resolution; becoming effortlessly aware of subtleties in the music that are either inaudible or partially obscured in replay on the NAD. Individual instrument and voices are so much clearer on the Apollo, which gives altogether a more satisfying and vivid experience of what I imagine to be the original musical performance. Some of the CDs are ADD and AAD versions of recordings from the 60s or 70s. Sometimes there is a sort of "halo" effect around instruments which I think is a result of digital re-mastering. If there is a negative side, it is that the Apollo makes this more obvious, too. But it is there on the disc. The Stereophile review pointed out that the Apollo is ruthless in revealing limitations in recordings. The Apollo vs NAD T533 might seem a "no brainer" to people comparing similarly-priced CD-only players, but I thought it was interesting to compare. As before, the music keeps "getting in the way" of a comparison. Move the same CD to the Apollo and I don't want to move back. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 33 Registered: May-06 | John, You and I know how a "fair" CD plays beautifully on the Rega Apollo compared to another player. My experience was when I carted my Apollo off to my dealer to test the Anthony Gallo Ref. 3.1's. He had a Parasound player and we also did a heads up comparison using a Technics DVD/SACD/CD player with McCormack Pre-Amp and 225 wpc Amp separates, into Vandersteen Quatro's. This is superior to the system I run with the Apollo. I had a "worn" Led Zeppelin IV (ZOSO) CD which track 8 -- "When the Levee Breaks" came across limited and flat on the Technics but the Apollo read through the wear and tear and delivered a full presentation. Today I bought a new copy of Dead Can Dance -- Into the Labyrinth to replace my reference CD which was more worn as LZ IV. I applied "Vivid" CD Enhancer and popped it in the Apollo. There were extensions that I had not heard before, a snappy punch or pop on a percussion instrument sounding somewhat like a xylophone, and voice imaging more exacting than I ever heard in my system. I get all of this and I still have not had my reconditioned Carver returned from the shop yet. Thanks for posting, otherwise I would not have thought to relate how well the Apollo carries a "virgin" CD. P.S. Simaudio -- Moon Product line has a link for Recommended CDs for reference listing. Since a few of the CDs I use for reference listening already were on the list I figured it was a pretty good list. Here is the link to their list; http://www.simaudio.com/recordings.htm |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4413 Registered: Dec-03 | That's great, Michael. Thanks. There is whole thread under Speakers Reference Quality Music Thread and I'll put that link there if that's OK. I used to think all CD players sounded much the same.... Not any more. |
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New member Username: AsimovPost Number: 10 Registered: May-05 | Dear Apollo Users It's almost six month you are playing Apollo, are you facing any problem with your Apollo? I'm concern about CDR issue, specially CDR written at higher speed i.e 16x to 48x. Apollo's manual says: "If playing CDR's they must be recorded at no greater than 8x as we cannot guarantee the readability of the disc." Stereophile reviewer's finding as follows: "However, it did stumble when playing back CD-Rs, which have lower reflectivity than CDs. Some of my older test discs--all of my CD-player test tones are burned onto CD-Rs--played back with frequent dropouts and glitches. ....Overall, this is excellent measured performance, though I was a bit bothered by the difficulties the Apollo had tracking CD-Rs.--John Atkinson" |
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New member Username: KommandoMt. Prospect, IL Post Number: 5 Registered: Jul-04 | Hi, Unfortunately I played minimal numbers of CDRs. The one that I actually tried played without difficulties. My experiences are not sufficient for serious testing. Hope that help. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 70 Registered: May-06 | Asimov, I have had an occasional CD or CDR which the Apollo got moody over and would not read correctly. If I took the CD out, then either waved it around or said hocus pocus or something to it, it would read correctly when I put it back in. There was only one CDR which was an exception and still did not read. The only glitch I found, and this is not uncommon with software driven devices, is that if you enter multiple remote commands (due to severe lack of patience I am afraid) that the Apollo will become irritable as it does not want to be rushed, so it simply locks up. An example of what I mean is that if I hit search forward 4 times, but only meaning to have hit it 3 times, then I quickly press search backward, and then perhaps play, I may get Apollo brain freeze. This is rectified by simply toggling the off / on button. For perspective, I have had the Apollo since early June and have a few hundred hours on it. I can recall it locking up about 4 times so far. P.S. I am not as impatient as that German kid trying to play a game on his computer. (See Break.com video post from about a month or so ago) |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4484 Registered: Dec-03 | I have had no problems at all. I have not tried CD-R. I would guess that a CD-R should be made with error correction on. The Apollo's pre-scan is time it spends deciding which level of error correction to use, if any. I like the interface. It is the first player I've had where I routinely program in tracks to play. It is easy and the player does not insert pauses between consecutive tracks. That suits the way I listen. |
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Bronze Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 61 Registered: Aug-04 | For those who may be having problems with their Apollo reading CD-Rs. The Apollo's owner's manual clearly states that any CD-Rs recorded at greater than 8x are not guaranteed to play, as the player may not be able to read it. It's in the owner's manual. Maybe that's why some people are having problems with the Apollo reading their CD-Rs? All my CD-R were recorded at either 1x......2x or 4x speed. So far I've had no problems whatsoever with my Apollo playing CD-R. I've played roughly 15-20 CD-R, that were finalized correctly. I also have had no problems whatsoever with the functions I use. Once in a while I screw up the "Repeat " funtion, by forgetting to press "Repeat" twice, for repeating the whole disc. But that's due to my error, not the machine. After 400+ hours and now, actually it's almost 500 hours on the Rega Apollo; I can honestly say I love this player. This player, in my opinion, is balanced and designed to not over-exaggerate or embelish the bass lines/frequencies. Another important point is that the Rega Apollo reflects what is on the recording. If the recording/mix contains prominent, distinct bass-then the Apollo will convey that element. Recordings which have the bass subtly mixed in, will be presented that way. Never have I (in the past ) believed in "extended burn-in factors". I always have believed and practiced warming up the components and letting them reach an ideal temperature, before playing any music. But "Burn-in"? Nah, I didn't buy that at all. Till now. To avoid any psycho-acoustic effects on my brain and ears, for the first 400 hours, I only listened to the player for a minute and a half, to two minutes for each listening; while it was "burning-in". I jotted down notes about the sound, song and the presentation of the Apollo. Then left the room and let the player continue playing and "burning-in'. Everything has improved on this player and it's not just a slight improvement. It's quite obvious. The bass is much more prominent, more articulate, more defined and nicely tuneful. I find no shortage of bass. If it's in the recording, the Apollo presents it as the recording and mastering dictates. There certainly is a foot-tapping, groove-inducing element to this player; without a doubt. One thing for sure, this player is not shy or slight in the bass catagory. At least for my personal tastes, it isn't. The highs and midrange are smooth, beautiful and musical. Dynamics also improved to a point that pleases me. They (the dynamics ) are not overly-done or exaggerated, same with the bass. For my personal tastes and preferences, this player strikes a bullseye. I don't know what else to say. I'm very pleased with this player and for me, it is a keeper! For others with different tastes and prefences, YMMV. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 75 Registered: May-06 | NMT - While I have noted burn in, I am also not having any trouble in any of the audio ranges and completely agree with your assessment. Well stated. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4490 Registered: Dec-03 | Seconded. Nice post, NMyTree. I can't add anything. Old, familar CDs just come to life. I did not know such resolution was possible from CD. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1584 Registered: Sep-04 | Wal Riley, If your Chord Solid has Neutrik RCAs it is not a standard Chord interconnect. I wouldn't be surprised if the Neutriks were the reason for the slightly bright bias. The Chord Chrysalis is a more midrange-biased interconnect, dropping off in bass and treble by comparison to the Solid. That said, it has a slightly more fluid presentation. Incidentally, it's make-up in terms of copper strands is probably quite similar to that of the stock Apollo item which would be why the y weren't that far apart in performance. I was surprised to read that the Apollo comes supplied with a cable! I'd not realised that it did (previous Rega players did not). I am not a fan of Rega's Couple - I find it a bit clinical. Chord interconnects are better in my view, and the higher end ones really let the Rega kit shine - at a price of course! I prefer to use the stock Rega power cable to most others, the exception being Naim power cables. The Naim item is just as uninspiring as the Rega and I can't really tell a difference between the two. After-market power cables can be just as detrimental to the music as anything else in my experience. I have seen situations where they have improved resolution, soundstage etc., but the music become less involving. Therefore, I tend to stick to the Rega and Naim items. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 240 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Apollo fans! just a quick note from me to say that I visited my local Rega dealer yesterday. The aim of my visit was to get an insurance valuation for my hifi equipment on the dealer's letter headed paper. In return for this favour I felt obliged to push some business the dealers way, so I ended up buying a pair of Sennheiser HD650's. Anyhows I digress, whilst in the shop I took some time to listen to various bits of kit. I heard some very pleasant sounds from an Apollo, Creek Destiny amp and Epos (M12 I think?) speakers. This seemed like a very nice balanced system, and made music. In fact I should thank myself, since I put the pieces together, the dealer seemed to want me to listen to the Apollo using a very puny Arcam A65 integrated, and some very hefty floorstanding Legend speakers which were a 2-way system with a D'Apollito driver array. (Incidentally there was lots of lovely kit in the dealer, but when I asked to listen to the Apollo, they just seemed too lazy to put something complementary together! Also I saw a new Saturn in black finish too, but I did not listen to it.) (I had to ask the dealer, "can I listen to the Destiny?, can we hook some Epos on the Destiny, can we get rid of that stupid mains filter?...") Anyhows for its $1500AUD price tag the Apollo is a nice piece, and sounded very nice to me when paired with the Creek/Epos combo. cheers Rav |
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Bronze Member Username: NmytreePost Number: 62 Registered: Aug-04 | Thanks guys. Hope it helped, in some way. |
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Bronze Member Username: AsimovPost Number: 11 Registered: May-05 | I have a very old NAD cdp Model-5325, may be this model is from 80s, before introduction of CDRs. NAD 5325 can play CDR written at 16x to 52x but failed to recognise disc written at 8x speed. I have experimented with different brand blank CDRs, result is same. So my understanding is current blank CDRs are made for 1x-52x speed, early CDRs were 1x -8x/1x-16x/1x-24x written capabalities, so a CDRs made for 52x burning is more sensitive than CDRs made for 8x/16x burning so if I burn a high speed CDRs (48x/52x blank CDRs) at a slow speed then it may some how "damage" the CDR. I tried it with Sony 48x and Imation 52x/TDK 52x/Maxell 52x and many other brands, if I burn a cdr at 8x speed the NAD5325 failed to recognise the cd but that cd can be played in NAD 542. I use EAC and Nero and Disk-at-Once mode for burning; it produces identical copies of original cd. I believe high speed CDRs (48x/52x) burned at 16x / 24x in Disk-at-Once mode should play fine with Apollo. Dear Apollo users could you please give a try for me, I am just waiting to place a order to my dealer, I can't do the experiment my self because after placing order my dealer will import it from Singapore and he is leaving very soon may be at the end of this week. Just take a pair of blank cdrs of 48x/52x speed copy any audio cd at 16x and 24x in disk-at-once mode using EAC/Nero burning software and check it with Apollo. Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4498 Registered: Dec-03 | I cannot help you at the moment, Asimov. I have burned a few standard Panasonic CDs which played fine, but at 4X and using different software. Perhaps someone else can help. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3577 Registered: Feb-05 | Please note a change in my profile (the equipment part not the other long winded BS)....More on this later. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4253 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, the AR alpha went down? What happened here? |
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