Archive through February 13, 2007
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3115 Registered: Feb-05 | Tube dampers...do you lose more than you gain? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8299 Registered: May-04 | What cleaning fluid and brush do you use, Art? Just what comes with the Nitty Gritty? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3116 Registered: Feb-05 | I use the Nitty Gritty Pure 2 and the brush that comes with it. I have 2 brushes, 1 for the really dirty records and the other for everyday use. When I run out of the Pure 2 I will be using Jim's record cleaning tonic. I'm not of what goes into it but he swears by it. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3117 Registered: Feb-05 | BTW - Jim really likes the Pledge and is sharing with folks...I talked with him today about it. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1331 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan: Verrrrry interesting on the towels. Do you mean that the towels feel "sticky" when you run your hand over them? If that's the case, I must have some pretty good ones, because they do, indeed, feel sorta "sticky" when I pick them up - and these are the clean ones, right out of the washer! All I know is that these towels do a 100% better job of CD-cleaning than the Viva paper towels ever did, and with even less scratching. Still haven't tried the Pledge - but will. . . All: I'd really like to hear from someone who has tried either Pledge or Zaino on DVD videos - and who has viewed the disc(s) on a large-screen TV set. If it makes the difference it does on our liddle one, the resolution and color must be quite amazing! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3121 Registered: Feb-05 | It does improve DVD video and audio. I use the Pledge on all of my silver discs except SACD. I will order the Zaino Z6 this weekend. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1333 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: You can safely use Pledge on all SACDs that do not have a little warning label in the jewel box. Only three of my SACDs have such - and I have let them lie quietly - un-scrubbed! (grin) And I'm not really sure that the Z-6 will make much of a difference on the Pledge. If you read about it on the Zaino site, it was designed basically to "keep the car shiny between major polishings." Or something like that. At least it does a bang-up job of de-staticing, and seems to add a degree of luster. I hope it helps. But I hate to have you waste money if it does not. I personally think the Z-14 is better - but I suppose that, in this case, the Z-14 mimics the Pledge, so it's a wash. (yeah, pun intended) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3130 Registered: Feb-05 | What I'm hoping the Z--6 does is remove any remaining residue from the Pledge. Jim is awaiting my results as he is a die hard Pledge convert. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3134 Registered: Feb-05 | Just ordered the Z-6 and it's no the way. Yippee! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1335 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: Happy, uh, "Z-ing!" |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1217 Registered: May-05 | Art - The Speed Box arrived Thursday and I used it all weekend. A very good improvement. I definately see what people were saying about the bass. At first I thought I hated it. After listening to a few albums and then disconnecting it, I now love it. Bass isn't rolled off, it's trimmed, cleaned, and less flabbly if you will. Everything's more focused and sharper (in a good way). It adds the PRaT aspect very well. It's not on the same level as the Pledge treatment for cd's, but what is? The Speed Box is worth every penny of the $120. Also, I've got the mk2. Does your's fit under your table? Mine doesn't. My only complaint is that the cord from the Speed Box to the table isn't very long. I can't put the Speed Box any further than about 2 inches away from the side of the table. A minor inconvenience though. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3145 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm glad you're enjoying it Stu. Short lunch at work today. Gotta go! |
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Bronze Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 55 Registered: Mar-06 | Gents, after reading this thread, I felt I had to give this a try. I went to the local supermarket (coles), and bought some microfibre dusting clothes, and a spray can of Mr Sheen-original. Unfortunately I could not see Pledge anywhere. I was very sceptical, but I gave this a try on 2 albums I know and love very well (Sleeping wih ghosts -Placebo, and Laid -James). I noticed very real improvements in treble, and greater prescence in the mid-range, the vocals were more 'real'. Overall the sound was less stressed and more relaxed and listenable, more focus I guess. For My Rantz, since you are based in Aus too, give Mr Sheen-original formulation a go. This seems to work well for me. I cleaned my 2 CDs in a well lit area, and I am sure they seemed noticeably cleaner, post application of Mr Sheen. Thanks for this it is a great tweak (well in fact it is less of tweak, more of a fundamental improvement!!!) -best regards Rav |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3170 Registered: Feb-05 | The Zaino has arrived. Will give a go this weekend. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3173 Registered: Feb-05 | Does Zaino improve on the sound of the Pledge treatment......you bet it does...more on this later.... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3175 Registered: Feb-05 | http://www.zainostore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Z-6 |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3178 Registered: Feb-05 | Bring the CD home and play it. Let's see if I can give some sort of analogy. It's like looking through somewhat turbid, rippling water. You can see that there is something of beauty at the river bottom but who can be sure of all of the details because you can't clearly see it. Apply the pledge and wow...the turbidity has been removed to reveal the beauty of the river bottom in all of it's glory. You see all that is there but you are still dealing with the ripples. Since you haven't seen the river bottom without the ripples you concentrate on the beauty of details without considering that it could be clearer. Apply the Zaino and the ripples clear, revealing the inner music, oops I mean the river bottom. No more details than before but completely undistorted. Very good indeed. Highly recommended!!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2328 Registered: Dec-04 | Thats a 9.8 from the Oregan judge... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8347 Registered: May-04 | It would have been a 10.0 except for the ease of the manuever. Back to you, Nuck, on the floor. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2346 Registered: Dec-04 | All I can find is Pledge clean and dust with anti-static properties, no wax. Sound about the same? Marketed differently here, I suppose. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2347 Registered: Dec-04 | This is Jim McKay. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8349 Registered: May-04 | That should be the stuff. You don't want anything with wax in the ingredients. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2349 Registered: Dec-04 | No wax it said. Geez I've been looking all this time, too. Typical Nuck. I buy and try on an old one first(I have a LOT of them). |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8352 Registered: May-04 | Get the microfiber! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2364 Registered: Dec-04 | chamois |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1387 Registered: Oct-04 | Dawgs: Please see the Old Dogs thread for strange info on CD scratches - before they're cleaned! Beats me how they get there - and are not seen until you polish the discs! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3540 Registered: Feb-05 | As already noted on other threads I have switched to the Zaino Z6 from the pledge. Better results and easier on the disc. Yippee! |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1089 Registered: Nov-05 | Who's going to be the first on the forum to buy this? http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/nanotech2/pro.html Not a cheap tweak! |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1345 Registered: Mar-05 | $600 cough cough splutter!! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5596 Registered: Dec-04 | Interesting way to bring this back from the dead, MR. I'm with JC. Beer out my nose. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1091 Registered: Nov-05 | Aw come Nuck - buy one, Mellencamp will never sound as good. Although he would with $600 of your favourite drop. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5599 Registered: Dec-04 | no.NO. maybe NO. |
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Gold Member Username: Joe_cAtlanta, GA USA Post Number: 1348 Registered: Mar-05 | must.......not......spend.......more........money........on....electronics...... .arrgh.....hurts.....OK!!! WHERES THE VISA!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9718 Registered: May-04 | . Since this thread has been revived and someone here doesn't want to spend any money, here's something I've been playing around with that just might help out a few CD's. You're going to have to collect a few inexpensive items that you might already have in your home; a sharp razor blade, a smooth cutting board, a small ruler (or preferrably a small protractor) and a package of Glad Press and Seal food wrap. Clean the cutting board to remove any oils or debris that might be on the surface and dry it thoroughly. Tear off a section of the food wrap about four to five inches wide and smooth it onto the surface of the board, sticky side down. Place a CD on top of the wrap and mark the position of the center spindle hole of the CD onto the wrap. Take your ruler, protractor or circle guide (a small drinking cup?) and mark the boundaries of an approximately 3" diameter circle around the center hole to create a doughnut. Using the razor blade, first cut a hole slightly larger than the center spindle and then the larger circle. You don't have to be perfect in your cutting, just get close to the right shape. Place this doughnut on the label side of your test CD and press the wrap firmly onto the CD's top side in order to secure it to the surface of the disc. You don't have to be exact in centering the doughnut on the CD, just close to centered will be fine. (The closer you cut the center hole to the size of the CD's spindle hole, the easier it will be to line up the two surfaces. Make certain you don't cut the center hole too close to the CD's center or you might foul the clamping mechanism on your player.) After the wrap has been securely adhered to the disc's label surface, give a listen. The size and position of the doughnut will affect what you hear. A smaller doughnut overall will sound slightly different than a larger doughnut. Play around with the diameter of the cutouts until you find the size that works for your system. This tweak seems to work best with the wrap going on the center portion of the disc but you can try a larger doughnut with more open space in the center of the disc depending on what you hear. Too much wrap can kill dynamics so tread carefully. If you don't care for the affect of the wrap, you can easily pull the material off the disc without leaving any residue. If you have a CD burner, you might want to record the same disc a few times and try various sizes and positions of damping material on the copies to determine what works best for your system. Play around with the sizes and position and let me know what you think. And, as always, I assume no responsibility for whatever happens to your player if you don't adhere the wrap firmly to the disc surface. If you press firmly and don't let the wrap extend into the center spindle hole, you should be OK. . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1106 Registered: Nov-05 | Hmmmm - and it's not April 1st yet! You almost had me until the 'assume no responsibilty' bit. I might hold off and wait for the raves and/or laughs, and/or curses. "should" being the definitive word. [grin] Okay gang - out with the tools! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5768 Registered: Dec-04 | What's the object of the game, Swami? |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1579 Registered: Oct-04 | Hmmmmm . . .Jan,you write of "things to hear," but you never give a good description of just what things I may or may not hear with this CD-treatment. Could this really be the new "wrap music?" Yep. . . OK, OK, I'll go out and get some of this stuff - Mer wants to use it in the kitchen to wrap cookies anyway - and OK, I'll bite and be a good dawg and do as you say. But give us all a good hint, eh? Just WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE TO YOU? Respectfully, . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9719 Registered: May-04 | . It makes no difference to me. If you folks don't want to try something dirt cheap and reversible, I won't be bothered. As you suggest there are other uses for the product even if you find no improvement by using a bit of it on CD's. So, in the end, you aren't going to be out anything should you try this tweak. It's not "magic" foil or rare, prehistoric wood pertrified in Mammoth dung. There are no dots you stategically place on your walls or fluids to smear on your interconnects. If you don't hear an improvement, pull the damn stuff off and go on. I see no purpose is describing what I hear as an "improvement" from this treatment. You all know the drill. Listen for yourself and decide whether you think it's worth sitting around a table cutting little circles out of food wrap. If your wife thinks you're crazy as is, this should just be a bit more validation of that opinion. . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1107 Registered: Nov-05 | I'd kinda hoped you saw my comment as a jest of sorts and not a put down. Yet, it is true that I'll most likely wait for some others to give it a go and if there are no reports of player melt downs, stuck cd's, house fires and so forth I may venture forth into this project. You're describing a cling wrap version of Herbie's Grungebuster CD mat though his aren't transluscent like the sandwich cellophane. A comparison anyone? I have an open mind on such things, yet I still can't wrap my head around the amazing little clocks that even won an award (as seen on another thread thanks to the village idiot) - fer crying out aloud - not to mention the coloured pebbles. Oops! Larry, good to see Mer's cookies last long enough for her to wrap 'em. Willpower eh? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9722 Registered: May-04 | . I didn't take anything as a put down. This is just a simple trial and listen project. Yes, it is similar to Herbie's tweak and there have been other CD damping tweaks using similar material through the decades. They all have more or less the same effect. This one is just much cheaper than the aftermarket items and like the Pledge and Zaino products will probably get you the same benefits while leaving more money in your pocket. Like the improvement of Zaino over just Pledge, there might be another reasonably cheap product to substitute for the Press and Seal. I can buy a roll of this stuff for about $3, so if I switch to something else, I can still wrap cookies with this. Right now I don't know of anything else like this that a consumer can buy so cheaply and readily. But you'll have to try this one first to see if you want to look any further. Just let me know what you hear. If you apply the material firmly until you are certain you have secured the edges to the disc surface, there should be no problems with your player. Just make certain all edges are tight against the disc and the material is as smoothly applied as possible. It doesn't matter if the wrap is slightly wrinkled in places unless your player has a very unusually large clamping mechanism. Most player clamps contact the disc only a small amount away from the center spindle area and they spin with the disc. But remember a CD is turning at up to 500 R.P.M. If you've secured the material to the disc, you should see whether you have to cut a larger center hole after the first play. I cut my doughnuts about 1/4" larger than the center hole and about 3" diameter. I'm still listening to the effects and I might change this as I go along. If you doubt the effect of this tweak, cover the entire disc the first time out. The stuff peels right off so you aren't risking anything. Listen to the full disc damping and then reduce the doughnut to suit your taste. . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1110 Registered: Nov-05 | Okey dokey then I'll probably give it a try soon. One thing though - you mentioned using the cling wrap sticky side down on the cutting board - I didn't know cling wrap had a sticky side. Do you mean the inner side as it comes off the roll? Can the static build up on this wrap have any ill effect or, is that part of the tweak? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9724 Registered: May-04 | . The Glad Press and Seal wrap is not a "cling" (or SaranWrap) type product. It has a "sticky" side and a non-sticky side. As far as I know this product is presently unique to Glad and acts with an "adhesive-like" bond to the surface it is adhered to yet pulls off free of residue. It can be re-applied multiple times before the "adhesive" begins to loose its "stick". . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1111 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks - I haven't seen it, but never looked so it may be available. And you answered my next question about how long will the stuff stay on. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5773 Registered: Dec-04 | The 'press and seal' material is a byproduct of a packaging film developed by DuPont and Union Carbide. The sealing requirement if packaging film have always been 'Heat,pressure,time'. The new 'cold seal film, with a microthin laminate including polyethelyne in a semi gaseous state sandwiched between layers of other materials, could create a hermetic seal in a packaging process by being exposed to pressur, sans heat to permeate the poly into the internal layerment, creating a hermetic bond. However, the original intent, that of packaging dairy and cheese, never quite got over the issue of a gas permeable inner layer. This layer of film will alloe the artificial environment created within the package(Nitro, C02, etc) to 'gas off' throught the permeable layer. This gassing means longer shelf life, by including small amounts of oxygen to replace the oxygen lost to the produce as a result of natural aging of a hurry-up production process. The cold seal film removed the requirement of heat to infiltrate the older materials(dwell) allowing much higher packaging speeds. The cold seal film in question does have 2 sides, and is treated to seal inside to itself with minimal pressure, but does not provide a hermetic seal.In fact a hermetic seal is undesirable for your cookies, as the possible fermentation of the little goodies deprives them of oxygen as well, and that makes 'em stale. The film does become more plyable with some heat, like having the roll in the kitchen while baking cookies. A zillion posts waiting for a packaging issue. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1112 Registered: Nov-05 | Well thanks Nuck, more education never goes amiss - except in my head where it can easily get lost. Looks like another product not available here. I had to visit the supermarket this morning - no 'press and seal' in sight. I walked out with some vinyl book covering adhesive film (black). When I get a chance I'll use this stuff and report back. Now back to packaging . . . |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1580 Registered: Oct-04 | Sorry, Jan, I meant what "sonic" differences does it make to you - what differences in sound character, etc. Have tah get more precise in my old age. Having a round of guests (Flawed-duh! in the winter, doncha know) so may not get around to trying Jan's Tweak. For the life of me, I can't imagine what difference plastic wrap could make - but then, I doubted that Zaino would do anything, either. So. . . . . In reference to the machine that light-zaps the discs and pulls out the stray bits of mold release compound, couldn't just putting the CDs in the oven do about the same thing? Heat is heat, after all. Sigh - so many things I do not understand. . . Respectfully, . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1113 Registered: Nov-05 | Disaster strikes!!! I cut the black vinyl as per JV's instructions and applied to "The Girl in the other Room" and it seemed she seemed quite happy in her new attire. Her voice seemed a tad smoother, the cymbals shimmered nicely, bass was very controlled, it was as if she just had a bath in Zaino and was feeling nice and fresh. I also cut a disc size piece and applied it Ms Cooling and she and her band sounded very cool indeed. Again, it was like they had just been bathed in Zaino or a bit (I said a bit) like adding good interconnects to a system that had average ones, though this system sounds great with the existing Merlins, the improvements they made seems exaggerated a tiny bit more with this tweak of the black vinyl cd size doughnut. So, I then cut a similar piece to replace the smaller version on "The Girl in the other Room". Then as I began to remove that piece disaster struck. The Girl in the other Room lost half her attire with the adhesive vinyl as it was being gently stripped off and she now resides in the kitchen waste bin awaiting her final resting place in the tip. $30 odd bucks down the draino Just shoulda stuck with Zaino! I told you the definitive word was 'should' - darn it! But then I do have another copy on a Dualdisc so I won't sue. This doesn't mean the same thing will happen with 'press and seal' but be careful. I took the vinyl adhesive off another disc successfully (being extremely careful) but discs have different label materials, some with paint of sorts and some with adhesive paper types. Ms Kralls label seemed like a type of paint and it peeled of with sections of the CD layer. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9726 Registered: May-04 | . One of the "benefits" of Press and Seal is its ability to be removed and re-applied multiple times without loosing its "stick" and without being so sticky it does any damage. It, unlike the black vinyl, is meant for contact with food products. Sorry your attempt ended badly, Rantz. What you describe is the effect I get from using the P&S material (along with a more 3-D soundstage), so, possibly you might want to experiment on a few CD-R's until you find the right size for the doughnut and then make a permanent application to you prize discs. . |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1581 Registered: Oct-04 | MR and Jan: My feeble-minded research has led me to several sites where there are major cautions about doing ANYTHING to the label side of the CDs. Seems that, unlike the "playing" side - there is only a thin, spray-on coating over the metallic layer - and anything to disturb that can ruin the disc. MR - you may be interested to note that I had an experience similar to your black-vinyl one - except that I "stacked" a blank, black CD-R on top of my CD, then slid it into the player. It worked fine in my old Yamaha - but when I tried it in the Cambridge, it rejected the disc after going about half-way in. Heck - at least it didn't get stuck in there! That would have been dicey. . . On many discs, the metallic layer is sprayed on too thin - and that may account for some of the "better sound" by using a black background. However, for the life of me, I cannot understand how a clear layer might affect the sound. But Jan, I shall away to the grocery store and get some for myself, and hope that the Cambridge doesn't reject that, too! I've forwarded your comments by e-mail to friend Verne in LA - and will be interested in his response. He hates forums, so my efforts to get him to read ours falls on deaf ears. Oh, yes - I do remember him telling me of a fellow recording engineer who regularly puts his new CDs in a "slow" oven for an hour - I think I remember him saying 250 degrees - not sure. Verne thinks the guy is nutz, but the chap claims it "cleans up the sound." I've never tried it - can't imagine trying to scrape melted CD off the oven! (grin) Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9729 Registered: May-04 | . Do get Press and Seal, no other food wrap is recommended for this project. Larry, it is not clear. Not that that has anything to do with the effect. As I said, make a few copies of a favorite disc and try the P&S on something you don't mind losing if you doubt my word. . |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1582 Registered: Oct-04 | MR, JV, et al: tweaked by Jan's unique process, and by MR's black vinyl experience - I decided to re-do my earlier black CD-R experiments - the ones that failed on the Cambridge player. Got another blank disc, but this time I did two things: first, took a razor blade and scraped off that little raised ring about an inch out from the center hole on the playing side. Made it flush. Then I put the disc on a table and sanded down the outer edges so they would be sloped and less likely to catch in the player mechanism. Put in a disc, put the black one on top, and crossed fingers. Voila! This time, the twin discs slipped into the player without a hitch. Played a couple of CDs, and was surprised and delighted to hear some actual sonic differences! More warmth, and instruments tended to be in a particular space, and the quiet sections seemed, well, "blacker." Hmm. . . . Mer, oh Mer!!!! She came in and we did some A-B comparisons, at which time she met my expectations. Yes, she said, the overall sound is fuller, even a bit louder, and the instrument spacing is much better. We did five A-B tests, and in every case the black-disc-aided sound was fuller, warmer, less strident and the instruments were more easily "placed" between the speakers. Oh, this was not a MAJOR difference - but enough of one to make both Mer and me believers that something was going on. . . Jan - sorry, but our local store was out of your cling wrap - until Friday, they said. OK, good Mr. Rantz, maybe you should go to "phase two" of your black-coating experiments, and try to find a black CD-R somewhere. ? ? Still waiting for Verne's response(s) to my questions. Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1583 Registered: Oct-04 | Postings crossed - Oh, Jan - the wrap is NOT clear? Then I'll bet there are aluminum or other reflective particles in it? As I posted above - our store is out (very popular, they say) so I'll try it in a few days. But I'll wager there's something in that stuff that either absorbs or reflects the laser light. BTW - in checking over some of my CDs - there are some you can almost see through - others not. LR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1584 Registered: Oct-04 | On third thought: Instead of putting the Press and Seal on the CD itself, what about putting it on the under side of a second CD, and putting that on top of the "good" CD? That way, you'd not have to take the stuff on and off. I think I shall try putting it on a junk CD - just to try it that way. Surely the wrap doesn't have a "good" and a "bad" side? - hmm. . . |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9732 Registered: May-04 | . " ... I'll wager there's something in that stuff that either absorbs or reflects the laser light." BRRRRRRRRRRRRAPT!!!! Wrong, Oh guessing one, no aluminum or metal of any sort, this stuff's fine in a microwave. It's all plastic of some sort. You do not have to pull this stuff off after you've determined what size doughnut to cut. You cut a bunch of doughnuts and apply them to the disc in perpetuity. I only mentioned you can remove the film if you don't like the effect or want to do further experimentation. . |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1585 Registered: Oct-04 | So - Jan - does your film in any way parallel the sound differences we heard with the black CD-R? Jest wunnering. . . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1115 Registered: Nov-05 | Hey guys, there are differences in many CD's. Some have the painted/papered label covering the entire disc right up to the center hole, some are similar, but with a clear ring a bit aways from the center, and others have a large clear area in the middle, and also, some (mainly older ones I think), have a little screen printing for labels leaving mainly an entire clear layer of the disc. I would think this would make a difference with the size of the P&S doughnut, though that's just a guess - maybe not though (see more below). Jan, does the P&S act to cut down the microphonics (as Herbies mats do) or is it, as Larry states, something to do with the light refraction? I see the black vinyl acting with the light rather than reducing microphonics. What say you? Larry, be careful with the 2 discs and plastic film sandwich. One of the big problems with dual disc in many players was the extra thickness. BTW, it is always pleasing to have your thoughts regarding these tweaks confirmed by others, it helps one feel more secure. [grin] The good thing with the C542 (I haven't tried the experiment on the 3910) is that when the cd got stuck, it was just a case of removing the cover and carefully removing the disc. The laser/transport unit is not in an enclosed casing as I think the 3910 may be. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1586 Registered: Oct-04 | MR - in the Cambridge player, if the disc gets stuck, I've gotta remove the outer cover, then dig in through a couple of metal braces, then through a plastic cover to get to the disc itself. A hassle! Plus, of course, no more warranty. . .sigh. I've tried the black disc "sandwich" on a dozen different CDs and DVDs now - and so far, so good. Jan's wrap still calls - and on Friday, I shall away to the store to get some. If it's not clear, though, will I still read the label through it? All sorts of questions here. . . OK - friend Verne in LA just posted me an hour ago, saying that anything glued or stuck onto a CD label has the very real chance of ruining the disc. In his words: "this is a thin, sprayed-on coating, and some labels are just plain too thin. If you even try to clean the label side, you're in for trouble. I would not put anything with any kind of stickum on the label side." Now, Jan's stuff apparently is easy-off, so there may be a difference there. No more comments from me until I actually get some of the wrap in my hands - in all fairness to Jan. No comment from Verne on my black-disc experiments. I think he believes them to be voo-doo. Sigh. Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9736 Registered: May-04 | . " ... does your film in any way parallel the sound differences we heard with the black CD-R?" " ... does the P&S act to cut down the microphonics (as Herbies mats do) or is it, as Larry states, something to do with the light refraction?" "I see the black vinyl acting with the light rather than reducing microphonics. What say you?" I don't know that the cause of the "black disc effect" has been quantified to the point where I can say something else is similar. My understanding of the black disc is a substrate material that isn't clear/translucent won't allow light to travel through the material. How much light is emitted through the label side of a any-color-other-than-black disc is questionable as far as I'm concerned. Virtually any covering on the label side of a disc will at least act to mitigate the transmission of light through the disc. How much light is scattered from the edges of a non-black disc is more important to my theory of why a black disc gives a slight improvement in sound quality. The idea is similar to painting the edges of optical discs in order to "short circuit" the light refraction through the polymer. Less light coming from the edges of the disc means less light scattered inside the player. Think optical fiber here. Does the P&S work in a similar fashion? Probably not, since you aren't covering the edges of the disc with P&S. I still prefer a permanent black ink marker for the edges of the disc. " ... does the P&S act to cut down the microphonics (as Herbies mats do) or is it, as Larry states, something to do with the light refraction?" Crikey!!!, Ol' 'erbie's got 'imself real proud of 'is stuff there; 'asn't 'e? I bought one of Herbie's CD mats for $6 just last year. Now he wants $20. See what happens when you don't have single payer health care? I think Herbie's web page is more hyperbole than instruction, so, I don't know what Herbie's claims for his mats amount to. I find the P&S is a more "refined" and repeatable improvement than the Herbie's removable "grungebuster" mat I can compare it to. In looks the P&S should be more similar to this piece from Herbie's; Damping the disc has been a popular tweak since the early days of CD's and the P&S is just another attempt at that technique. Look at the "Black Hole" from Herbie's and I think you'll get the idea what your mat should have looked like, Rantz. I suspect Herbie has put a bit more in his product that mere black vinyl contact paper but I see no reason why the less expensive product would not work just as well. You claim to have heard the improvement with the application and it was just trying to remove the material that caused problems. I have a hard time getting a picture of the "microphonic distortion" which Herbie's site mentions actually filtering through an optical pick up device. I can say with certainty that a thin plastic disc spinning at 500 R.P.M. will have some random motion (such as an off center pressing or an up and down motion relative to the laser's optical pick up) whether from a poorly executed clamping mechanism or from the natural tendencies of a thin plastic disc when set in motion (think wobbly Frisbee here). These are the "microphonics" which damping discs are meant to resolve. Several damping dics have been introduced over the years which merely sit on top of the playing disc. As Larry discovered they tend to damp the playing disc by adding mass which tends to minimize the Frisbee effect. The obvious problems result from both the additional thickness of the extra disc and the fact it has no real connection to the playing disc other than minimal friction. As an aside, I once used a second CD where I had attached small bits of Sorbothane to the underside of the damping disc and placed it atop the playing disc. The Sorbothane had enough "stick" and the second disc provided sufficient mass that it damped the playing disc quite well. The disc got discarded when a new player wouldn't allow both discs to enter the machine. But it too is an easily repeatable tweak that didn't permanently alter the playing disc. On that note, I also have a few discs which still have the centering ring for another damping disc permanently attached to the top side. The damping disc has resided in a drawer for I don't know how many years. Unfortunately, I can't pry off the centering doughnut without destroying the disc. Part of the problem with these second disc ideas is the inability to accurately place the damping disc on top of the playing disc. With the disc spinning at 500 R.P.M. and considering the width of the laser "track" any eccentricity will cause excessive error correction and jitter, both of which are bad for CD sound. My earliest damping disc was from the Mod Squad and was a second disc type device with an additional ring at the periphery of the disc to act as a flywheel. It was effective though the effect was more hit and miss than most people liked as its flywheel effect only exagerated any off center behaviour of either disc. I still have unused rings (of some exotic material that no consumer could posibly purchase, ... eh, they were polyvinyl) that were meant to be placed around the edge of the disc for added flywheel effect. The same problem as above plagued their existence which was quite short even by audio tweak standards. By covering the edge of the disc the ring was meant to totally eliminate any light refraction from the edge of the disc, but the green pens did a better job at that too. Bye-bye! So, you can see the problem has been around for a while and the solutions all amount to basically the same idea, damp the playing disc. Herbie's mats do just this but cost too much money for me. The P&S does a more consistent job and is easily removable. Use the look of Herbie's "CD Hubcaps" or "Black Hole" as a template for cutting the P&S. Unlike the Hubcaps, the P&S can remain until you decide you don't want it on the disc. If you would prefer to experiment with the black contact paper, any kitchen supply store or most hardware stores will have shelf liner/contact paper and should have a selection of solid colors - if not black. I don't think the solid color is as important on the label side of the disc as just damping the disc with the vinyl ring for the reasons I've stated above. However, as with Rantz's experiment, you will not be able to remove the contact paper from the disc without possible damage. On the other hand, I've set and removed the P&S several times from my discs and have had not problems with the process. Larry - "If it's not clear, though, will I still read the label through it?" I guess that depends on how large you make the doughnut. Take a look at Herbie's Hubcaps and you'll see approximately the size of the P&S doughnut I suggest you start with. Unlike Herbie's Hubcaps, however, the P&S can be lifted off the disc if you want to read a label that it might be covering. " ... of course, no more warranty. . .sigh." No sighs here, Mister! Your warranty should not be voided if you do nothing to the deck other than remove the cover to retrieve a disc. Warranties are voided when some chimpanzee has started cutting board traces and rearranging the inside of the player. . |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1116 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanks for the detailed info. I'll have to keep an eye out for material similar to the P&S. I wouldn't pay Herbie's prices either. But, even though I did not do much listening with the experiment, there was enough improvement to my ears (or in my mind) to warrant further exploration. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1591 Registered: Oct-04 | OK, OK - finally got some of Jan's magic film - put it on one of Mer's poly cutting boards and used one of her super-sharp knives to cut out center hole and around the edge of a disc, which I put on top of the film as a template. Made three different diameter film-pieces, then put one on each of three regular CDs. All on chamber music discs, so the sound would be at least in the same ballpark. Wellllll - I played all three several times, then, one by one, took OFF the film and re-played the discs. Frankly, I could not tell any difference at all. Mer has been at work, so hasn't yet had time to join in the fun. At this point, I am still puzzled, because I do not seem to hear any difference in sound quality. But I'm not finished yet - I'll work with the stuff awhile longer - though, frankly, I thought the black CD-R atop the CD made more of a difference. BTW - to give the black CD-R more "adhesion" to the CDs, I painted on a verrrrry thin coating of rubber cement - ONLY to the black CD-R, NOT the regular CD. Took the coating about 1/2 way from inner hole to outer rim. Let it dry thoroughly. didn't seem to add much more thickness to the CD-R, and it probably helps to keep it from slipping. Only thing I have to be SURE of is that, when inserting the discs, they are perfectly aligned. Will post more as the fun continues. . . Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1594 Registered: Oct-04 | THANX A HEAP, JAN! Well, I sure tried your magical cling wrap, uh, Press n Seal - and now I've got a disc stuck somewhere in the player, and I'm, uh, well, you know. Put the magic film on several discs - but left it on two of them for several hours. Big Mistake. When I tried to pull it off a Hyperion label CD the Hy came off with the film - and the surface seemed irregular. Tried to play the disc. It played, but when I tried to eject it, it is apparently stuck to the clamping mechanism. Tried everything - but it is just plain stuck in there. Soooo - tomorrow I've gotta dig into the cabinet and try to get out the dammmmmmed disc. OK, Jan - I gave your tweak a try - and so far as I'm concerned, it's just plain Phooey! Mer tried today to hear differences, and our conversation quickly boiled down to an argument. She could not hear any difference, and thought I'd lost my flippin' mind. Which I now have - lost. Sigh. NO MORE TWEAKS!!!! Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5795 Registered: Dec-04 | Other than that, Larry, how'd it go? Sorry to hear. The reasoning seems sound, the execution maybe not so much. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1595 Registered: Oct-04 | Had to take apart the player - and found, to my horror, that a small piece of the film had failed to come off the disc, but had later come off in the player. When I tried to remove the disc, it slipped off the platter and wedged against one of the little plastic gears. Gear destroyed - player now dead. Owner nearly so. I'll have to call Cambridge tomorrow. A very expensive lesson learned. Don't put anything except the disc in the drawer! respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3959 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm afraid this tweak didn't even intrigue me. I'm sorry about your player Larry...I feel your horror. Last Friday I was preparing to take pics of my system to update my member system on Audiogon and I dropped my digital camera and destroyed it...much cursing ensued followed by the realization that I had just spent couple hundred of my hard earned tax return dollars...bummer and double sigh! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1596 Registered: Oct-04 | Thanks, Art. Check yer PM list. How do you tell your wife that you just ruined your CD player with a piece of plastic wrap? Eh? She came home exhausted from an evening class, and I hadn't the heart to break the news. Tomorrow. . . Think I'll have one last glass-uh Scotch. Sigh. LR |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1122 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry - double darn it. Art - ditto. Very sorry guys. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3960 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks MR. Hey if that's the worse thing that happens this month I'll be ok. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1598 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: that'll be the worst - you survived "the look" from your wife, didn't you? I told Mer this ayem, and she surprised me by saying how sorry she was, but that she thought the idea of putting plastic wrap on CDs was one of the dumbest things I'd done in a long time. She says she'll try to sell another painting to pay for repair or replacement. Sigh. . . Forgot - it's Saturday, and nobody home at Cambridge. It'll wait. . . respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5802 Registered: Dec-04 | Larry, where can I see some of Mer's work online? |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1599 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck: Sorry, she doesn't have a web site, and sells only through local galleries, etc. Maybe I'll take a digital pic or so - if I don't drop the camera! LR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3964 Registered: Feb-05 | That's always a risk for us Larry...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5803 Registered: Dec-04 | So long as we can still laugh a bit, guys! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9747 Registered: May-04 | . Well, I'm sorry the experiment turned out so badly for the two who tried it. I guarantee you the effect I hear is identifiable and while not painted with a broad stroke is repeatable from disc to disc. I have removed the wrap from various discs with no damage what so ever and no residue left behind. To double check I pulled the first doughnut I tried from the test disc just last night after two weeks of adhesion to the label side of the disc. No problems. I have gone so far as a double layer of wrap on my SACD of DSOTM and can lift it without fear. I understand some labels are thinner than others and maybe this accounts for the difference. Larry, I can only assume you tried to remove the disc with the player plugged in so the transport would eject the disc. If not, how did the gear get damaged? How much wrap did you put on that disc? Was it to the edge of the disc or just a small doughnut as I suggested? Did the small piece that stuck in the machine come off while you were playing the disc with the wrap attached or after you tried to remove the wrap? . |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1600 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan: just forget it. . . . LR |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1127 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry, I'm so sorry about your player, it's a real - well - you know. My problem was my own doing by doing an experiment based on Jan's tweak and other stuff I've read about. When attempting any tweak, be it polish, optic enhancers etc , we really have to assume resposibility ourselves for what results. Personally, as I did with yours Larry, I thank Jan for sharing this tweak (even though I haven't yet used the P&S) as I discovered something else that makes a difference. I hope something gets sorted with your player with the minumum of expense. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1128 Registered: Nov-05 | resposibility - responsibility! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1601 Registered: Oct-04 | Just so everybody is clear on this. I only blame myself for my troubles, OK? Here's the order of my experiment, just so ev-body understands what I did. I got one of Mer's cutting mats, and put it on a small table in front of the stereo, so I could cut, fit, play, cut, fit, play easily. Then I got five discs whose music I know very well. I put a 12" square (roughly) of the plastic glue-side down, on the mat. I put a CD-R on the wrap, and cut around its outer and inner edges with an Xacto knife. Then I put a glass over one of the circles, and made a smaller "doughnut." I did the above twice, so I had two large and two small doughnuts. I took two CDs and peeled off the small doughnuts from the mat and fit them to the discs. As I had handled the discs a LOT, I cleaned the label side of the two discs that I put the large doughnuts on with Zaino Z-6. Something I don't usually do, because I'm afraid of messing up the labels. OK - I played the two small-doughnut discs first with, then without the film. Could hear no difference. Then - I put the two large-doughnut discs in the player, and heard nothing unusual. At that point I had to do some laundry, so I left the two discs for about 90 minutes, as it turned out, in a sunny part of the carpet. Probably a mistake. When I came back to continue my listening I played the first disc with film on, then tried to peel it off. The film didn't want to budge, so I had to pick away at it for some time. When it did come off, part of the Hyperion label came with it. And there seemed to be some stickiness to the label. Sigh. I played the disc, again, hearing no difference in sound. then I tried to get the film off the second disc - one of my favorite chamber music CDs. The film, again, seemed unusually sticky, and when it came off it, too, left some little "dots' of what seemed to be softened label. Not sure, as the disc has now been tossed in the garbage - totally scratched. When I played the second disc, it seemed to play OK, but when I came to open the drawer - no disc! I closed the door and opened it again - no disc! Well, I guess it must have been stuck to the upper part of the clamping mechanism - because when I again closed the door there was a horrible grinding noise, then a big "pop" then everything just stopped. I hit the "open" button, but this time it would not budge. Soooooo - I unhooked the player and opened the lid. The disc was wedged sorta to one side and in back of the CD tray, and it had jammed up against a circuit board and had stripped gears on two of the many little plastic gears that open and close the drawer. Obviously, it was ruined. I took out the disc, plugged in the player, but it would not open or close. . .dead in the water, so to speak. When I gave the unit a closer inspection I saw a small strip of the film stuck to the upper clamping mechanism. Where it came from, I do not know. But it, and the softened label, probably glued it in place, and resulted in the failure. Did the Z-6 somehow soften the label - or did it interact with the Glad film? Don't know - but that's the end of my film-experiments, for sure. Mer, btw, had come in on the middle of my experiment - listened - and avowed no difference in sound. She had to leave, so she missed the disaster, and only learned about it the next morning from "Mr. Chicken." Sigh. OK - that's it - make of it what y'all may - all I know is that I'll probably have a too-much bill to pay soon. Again - I only blame myself. respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9750 Registered: May-04 | . Larry - Thanks for the run down. Since I'm using the wrap on many of my discs I wanted to know if it came off during play. Once again, I'm sorry for the problems. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1602 Registered: Oct-04 | Oh, well, I was tired of the same old player day in, day out, anyway. . .(grin) Just chatted with friend Verne in LA - and he says that he doubts that Cambridge will fix the unit, but want me to buy a new one. Not under warranty, obviously, as I screwed it up myself. Sigh. He says a friend has a unit one step up from mine - the DV89 - and absolutely loves it. At least I'm in good company. . . BTW - I told him about Art's Rega Apollo - and he says it's one of the best. . .if you want to limit yourself to what format you play. Which Rega owners obviously do. . . Miss my music. . . .double sigh. respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4003 Registered: Feb-05 | I also have the Denon DVD2910 universal.....all bases covered. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1129 Registered: Nov-05 | I note on the newer Telarc SACD's (on the inside casing) a message warning not to use disc cleaners or anti-static treatments. I could not see any harm in using the Z6 anyway and it did not present any problems. I once spoiled a Linn SACD by dabbing on some Z14 before polishing, it still sounded okay but left satin marks on the disc. It must have something to do with the goldish material used on some hybrid discs as the silver ones never were a problem. I guess it pays to experiment with discs of no great value - unfortunately we don't have spare players for this purpose either. I would not dare try to remove the new vinyl dress from Ms Cooling (no matter how good she looks underneath) however, I wouldn't wish to anyway, as she seems to perform better in black. I will try the vinyl on a couple of others in due time and report back as I am intrigued. Larry, I'm glad some humour is still with you, I don't know how well I would have dealt with a similar disaster. I hope Cambridge offers some inexpensive solution for you. Guess you'll be spending some time in the Honda (lol!). |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 244 Registered: May-06 | Larry, Take a good look at the Rega Apollo, it has a flip up top where you drop in the disc, no drawers, gears, or electronics involved in the insertion and removal of the disc in the player. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1133 Registered: Nov-05 | I applied the black vinyl adhesive to another three cd's. I cut the vinyl discs to cover the entire cd from the outer to inner edges. Each album sounded more vibrant (okay Jan, three dimensional) with seemingly more space around the singers and instruments and more high end detail. That's about as best as I can describe the difference, though this effect was in varying degrees with each cd. I think the cause is the different opacity created by the labelling, but that's just a guess. One thing I recommend if anyone tries this - don't do it to any cd you may wish to sell in the future as I would not guarantee safe removal of the vinyl. I fact the odds are against it. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1604 Registered: Oct-04 | Michael: Yeh, this fascinates me. Do you remember the very first CD player that came out? It was small, silver, and had a flip-top - you put the disc in from the top, not the front. I dearly wanted one, but never got it. Too bad the design was superceded by the often-flawed "drawers." M.R. - my good and dear Aussie friend - you're getting the exact same results with your vinyl that I'm getting with my black CD-Rs. I highly advise a test with some - if you can find any that don't come in a package of 100 or so! I made up three of them - and after cutting off the little raised rim around the center and sanding down the top edges so they would present less of a "wall" to the player - they worked just fine. When I remembered to use them!! (grin) Jan is also right in his use of black-pen on the outer rim - AFTER lightly sanding down the edge, in my case. I figure the light sanding helps to reduce edge-glare or reflection. Is all this hookum? Well - who knows? But Mer, in her golden-eared wisdom, thinks the black discs help the sound a little. Sigh. And you are right about the difference in opacity, MR, but I think the real difference lies in the thickness of the metal reflective layer that is sprayed on, rather than the label itself. Many discs you can almost see through, while others are pretty solid. I'm guessiing the most sound-change comes with discs that are thinly-sprayed. Maybe? Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1607 Registered: Oct-04 | It's a goner - - both Cambridge and a trusted stereo shop here in Flawed-duh! tell me that, with the damage I describe - replacement is cheaper than fixing. Soooooo. . . . . Such is life. . . LR |
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Bronze Member Username: NoutPost Number: 62 Registered: Mar-06 | It is great to see how sound can improve with some simple tweaks...for some people however. I tried the marker thing and the cleaning with a similar product like Pledge (they don't sell that brand over here), but I couldn't tell a difference. Maybe it's because I take good care of my discs, never leave them open and unprotected. But what makes me never use the magic marker method again is my cd players ocassional refusal of playing the marked discs...I have to place the discs in a certain direction on the platter or otherwise my cd player doesn't read them or plays them with a lot of mechanical noise. Very strange. Oh well, it saves me a lot of marking and cleaning  |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1609 Registered: Oct-04 | Nout: Don't know where "over here" is - but Pledge Clean and Dust is sold in most major countries, from what I understand. But a lot of us now use the produces made by the Zaino car care company - one, Z-14, is a polish used for plastic windows, the other, Z-6 is a high-polish liquid used on show cars. BTW, Zaino is only sold on the Internet. Both strip away the mold release compound, as does Pledge. Cleaner surface, better laser focusing, better sound. The edge-marked discs should have no trouble playing, as long as you get NO ink on the playing surface! What brand of CD player do you have? Good luck - and let us know. Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4026 Registered: Feb-05 | I have actually stopped using the Zaino as it doesn't have a good effect with the Apollo. In fact quite the opposite on some discs. I have replaced some discs that were Zaino treated since I bought the Apollo. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1610 Registered: Oct-04 | Really ? ? ? ? ? What happens, Art? Sound quality? Please inform. . . LR |
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Bronze Member Username: NoutPost Number: 63 Registered: Mar-06 | Larry, "Over here" is the Netherlands. I tried to confirm my claim that Pledge isn't sold over here (I haven't come across any yet) so I typed "Pledge" with the Dutch word for cleaning "schoonmaken" in the Google search box and what do you know... I got results. Well I'll obviously keep my eye on it. The edge-marked discs should have no trouble playing, as long as you get NO ink on the playing surface! Yes, I'm aware of this and no ink is left on the playing surface. I use a Marantz CD5000 which never have let me down, it just accepts every disc I feed, it never skips etc. Just the 3 discs I marked need more care in placing on the tray, turning the disc a few degrees if the player doesn't accept the disc immediately or is starting to make noise. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1137 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry, I have not seen the Pledge Clean and Dust here in my local supermarkets. I am truly sorry about your player. But, a new toy is the cards, no? One only has to hold the CD's up to a strong light to see the differences in the labelling, some are so thin they may as well have nothing on at all. I feel there is a lot to be said for containing stray laser beams. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4028 Registered: Feb-05 | I'll explain after work Larry. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1139 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry, yes, the metal reflective layer could be at fault also. That certainly lifted off easily with the section of painted label on Ms Krall's CD. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4029 Registered: Feb-05 | I stopped using the Zaino because it stopped being beneficial when I bought my Apollo. What was more revealing with my other player seemed to have an extra glare now. Now that I have several cd's both Zaino'd and not the ones without sound more natural with the Apollo. No biggy just quit using it for now. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1613 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: Hmm. . .never thought that a clean disc might sound worse in a player! Interesting. . . The more I learn the less I understand. . . I'm ordering a new Cambridge player. . . LR |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1140 Registered: Nov-05 | What Larry - one of those players with the flimsy plastic gears? Just kidding my friend, just kidding - really. When you're on a good thing, stick to it. Hope you can get back to your music soon. With the Apollos, maybe their unique disc optimizing mechanism and top loading transport etc means a more accurate reading which negates the use of cleaners and optical enhancers which appear to help on players with standard transports. The more I read about the Regas the more I want one - especially the Saturn. Come on lotto! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1614 Registered: Oct-04 | Well, this is something my brain refuses to understand. I clean a better path for the laser to read the disc, and that makes a rather noticeable difference. then along comes Art with a hi-end player, and says that the cleaned discs have more "glare." To my feeble brain, that flies in the face of logic. Not that I doubt our friend, but I wonder why such an apparent degradation occurs. Anybody else have a similar reaction? LR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1615 Registered: Oct-04 | Oh, yes - MR - the guts of the Cambridge player ARE flimsy! I was rather appalled when I opened it up and saw the fragile parts involved in the drawer movement. And the top parts of the clamping mechanism are el-cheapo plastic and metal. Hmm. . .surely other players are better built? Or do they all look like Wal-Mart $59 units inside? Until I opened the case, I had no idea that what looks solid outside could appear so flimsy inside. No wonder people put all sorts of tweaks inside their player cases! Amazing. . . LR |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 248 Registered: May-06 | I use Vivid on my CDs with my Rega Apollo and have found no negative effects, some discernible positive effects, and some with no difference. Maybe Art's glare is a product of something else, perhaps interconnects, speaker wire, room acoustics, or sun spots. Sorry couldn't help the campiness, glare / sun spots. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1616 Registered: Oct-04 | Sun spots? Hey, you fellow sunshine-living guy, yah gotta realize one ting: Oregon only gets sunshine from August 14 to October 24 - so sun spots can't possibly be the source of Art's "glare!" (double grin) And Vivid is good - I used it for some time until I discovered Zaino. I'd call the two products equals except in price. Zaino is a comparitive bargain. LR |
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