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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 527 Registered: Nov-05 | Feel free to tell us what you do to extract the best from your audio gear. What tweaks make a difference in sound quality to your ears? We have been discussing the virtues of CD (SACD/DVD/DVD-A etc) cleaning and treatments in this thread that has seriously gone off topic: "The Future of SACD's and other Hi-Res formats" https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/208666.html Larry, my answer to your last post in that other thread: I had been using banana plugs for convenience and since I had bought new speaker cable I hadn't tried it with raw connections though I knew that was always the better contact - especially with the wire screwed tight. Although the difference wasn't earth-shattering, it did make more of an improvement than I would have thought. Speaker position also takes some time to get right - although with our room layout, we are very limited at present. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1296 Registered: Oct-04 | Rantz - good for the new thread. I just finished a rather longish listening session with Mer - and (sigh) she pampered me and said that the stereo sounded "fine" tonight. Yeah. Sure. I asked her if she "really" heard any difference, and she said: "Well, you worked hard on the wires and such today, and you obviously believe that the changes make a difference to you. If you believe that, then there is a difference - and good for you!" Is that sorta "damning with faint praise?" Hmm. . .well, anyway, I "think" that the stereo sounds a tad smoother now. And if it's only psychological - what the heck - I don't care - if it sounds better to me, then I'm happier. So there! (grin) I'm still in the dark over these suggestions that I lift my speaker cables up off my carpet. I've not tried them on the carpet - off the carpet - on the carpet - off the carpet. Nope. Can't tell any difference at all. Maybe I need a larger glass-ah Scotch??? I think there is merit in the tighter cable connections, though. Perhaps some of you ore engineer-oriented folk can explain that one to me?? Mer said tonight that the CD cleaning brought to her more improvement in sound than anything else I've done - that she could hear an "immediate" clarity and smoothness. And she always tweaks me to be sure I clean every rental DVD movie before we watch it! Yes - it DOES make for a better picture! What other tweaks make a difference? Fire away, and I'll see if I've been there and done that - and if it worked (to my aged ears!) Rantz: Be sure to use the "looped" microfibre towels. They are softer and less likely to scratch. Remember, these towels were designed for Real Fanatics - who would never think of putting even one scratch on their custom cars! More anon. . . LR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3007 Registered: Feb-05 | Actually Larry the looped towels are for detailing the unlooped ones like the ones I use are for polishing automobiles. I believe it is softer and runs a lower risk of scratching than the looped ones. Remember that I'm not using the ones that you would use to say clean your eye glasses. One of my favorite tweaks are Vibrapods. I use them with my cd and dvd players my tuner and I use a combination pods and cones for my integrated. From the first time I used them I heard a difference. http://www.vibrapod.com/ Off to bed...I'm beat! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 528 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry - thanks. Yes, I use the looped MF towel, I agree it seems softer. I'm yet to try the cleaning treatment on a DVD, I'll do that soon (when I remember) and report. As far as lifting your speaker cables off the carpet goes, I would assume the reason for this would be if there was any static electricity build up in the nylon it could possibly interfere with the signal in some way (tech info not in my data storage unit). Of course some nylon carpets are treated to be anti-static so there may lie the reason for not noticing a difference. Tell Mer, my wife would have said the same thing - especially if she had her eye on a new dress or pair of shoes etc. [grin] |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1297 Registered: Oct-04 | Rantz - how did you know about the shoes? (double grin) Yeah - the carpet thang is a stretch for me, but what the heck, I thought that, since I was way down on hands and knees anyway. . .I'll take out the liddle "lifts" tomorrow. Mer says they look "hokey." and about that new dress. . . . Art: Vibrapods - hmmm - I guess I use a DIY version of sorts. Under each "leg" of the CD player I put a sandich of cork - silicone layer - cork. The silicone comes from (blush) some Dr. Scholl's in-shoe foot pads - and is kinda like stabilized Jell-O. Very vibration-resistant. The player is on a 3/4" hardwood shelf. I'll check into Vibrapods - to see how they compare. But what "difference" did you hear, please? respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1298 Registered: Oct-04 | Art, et al: Ah! I see what you mean on the Vibrapods. gotta say, however, that a friend of mine recently sent me a pic of his new CD "feet." His daughter found some "wonderful" sponge rubber balls at a store - bright red. About and inch and a half diameter. My friend thought they were kinda neat - soft, but not to squishy. So he bought a half-dozen of them and went to work. Put each ball in a homemade "bagel cutter" then took a serrated knife and cut the balls down the middle. He said he slipped a couple of times, which is why he bought so many! Put the half-balls under each leg of his CD player, and said the sound got smoother - plus - he said the red half-balls look "way cool." Hmm. . .think that guy needs some liquid medication! (grin) Does that qualify as a "tweak" or as a "nut case?" LR |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 529 Registered: Nov-05 | That interesting about your friend with the half balls Larry - he sounds half brave :-) I've heard good things about Vibrapods and DIY types as well. They do have a 30 day refund policy I believe, though check with dealer if you're so inclined to try them. I meant to mention more about tightening the speaker surrounds since you asked. Yes, with an alan key, the surrounds on the B&W's can be tightened, but do so that they are firm but don't overdo it - you don't want your screws loose - there's enough of us here with those. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 753 Registered: Feb-04 | I can attest to the effectiveness of using half-balls. I use squash balls. Resulting improvements include a better defined soundstage and better bass definition. Not subtle improvements either. The snake-oil in this equation are the Gingko balls marketed to audiophools that do essentially the same thing as squash balls but costs 20X more. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 754 Registered: Feb-04 | For a lot of expensive audiophile accessories, there's usually a less expensive alternative. Squash balls for Gingko balls Pledge or Zaino for Walker Vivid Mr. Clean Magic Eraser for Onzow cartridge cleaner Home Depot cord for name-your-expensive-brand speaker cable And so on. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1125 Registered: May-05 | 2c - Is this the Onzow cleaner you're referring to? http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?sku=AZEROD I tried to post a pic, but I can't figure out how to shrink it to fit. I was about to order it. If you've used the Mr. Clean Magic Eraser, my question is does it have chemicals that'll damage the cart? I thought the Onzow didn't have any chemicals. If it's safe and at least equally effective, I've got no problems saving a few bucks. What components do you use the squash balls with? Are the results more dramatic with certain components? How about turntables? How many? 3 in a triangle set-up or 4 near corners? As stupid as this may sound, what level ball? I know they very by bouncyness (is that a word?). Are firmer ones better than softer ones, or is their really no audible difference if you've tried different ones? Working in a college athletic department, I have virtually unlimited access to squash balls (disclaimer: I will not steal squash balls for my own or others use; please don't ask). I'll experiment with them, starting where you suggest, then try a level up or down. I'll let everyone know my findings when I have a chance to use a few different ones and be able to form a concrete opinion either way. I think I may have saved more than a few bucks here. If I had any suggestions on different tweaks not mentioned here I'd post them. Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 755 Registered: Feb-04 | Stu, Yes, the Onzow Zerodust is what I was referring to. Compare that $69 piece of polymer to a $5 Magic Eraser. Yes, the Magic Eraser has an active ingredient. The key is to use it dry. Wetting the eraser will release the ingredient. I cut off a small piece and stick it on a flat coffee stirrer. I use a stylus cleaning brush to wipe off loose particles from the stylus, then drop the stylus on the piece of Magic Eraser and lift back up again (no back-and-forth motion should be used), and finish with more wipes of the brush. Others have inspected the stylus with a microscope before and after use of the eraser and found it to be a very effective stylus cleaner. I haven't heard or read about any negative effects of the Magic Eraser. As far as the squash balls, I would choose the firmness of the squash balls based on the weight of the equipment, e.g, I have four firm half-balls supporting a turntable on maple butcher block. There aren't any sonic differences between the triangular or corner formation as far as I can tell. They have a positive impact on turntables as well as cd players and amps. I haven't tried them under speakers. That's what hockey pucks are for! The squash balls are definitely worth a try. If you don't hear a difference, then you're only out a few bucks. But I think you'll hear a noticeable improvement. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1126 Registered: May-05 | 2c, Just making sure we're on the same page here... Squash balls are kind of small. Cut them in half? What about leaving them whole and trying to figure out a way to keep them from rolling? I'm most likely putting way too much thought into this. Is a half squash ball big enough to fit under most components without the feet touching the shelf? Or are you referring to racquet balls, which are almost the size of tennis balls? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2122 Registered: Dec-04 | I am curious about the hockey pucks. My mains sit on the carpet, and I have put off spikes, until I get close to a shop and make some up myself. I Do, however have access to hockey pucks! Nuck |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1127 Registered: May-05 | I forgot about this... I don't know if it's technically a tweak or not. I use an APC UPS for surge protection, power filtering, and voltage regulation. It ran circles around the up to $500 Monster conditioners when I compared them in my home. I didn't try the more expensive Monsters. I actually sumbled upon it when looking for a UPS for my computer. I didn't realize they did EMI, RFI, and voltage regulation (AVR). Now I've got two - one for the stereo and a smaller one for the computer. Just make sure it's rated for the amount of power you need. At $150 retail vs. the $1500 for the Monster that does AVR, I'd say it's a pretty good deal. I didn't compare those two directly because I can't afford the Monster. Everything sounds better. I haven't had any of the complaints others have had with some power conditioners - loss in dynamics, smaller soundstage, etc. It didn't make my system sound like a $100,000 system, but it definately made it better. They go on sale regularly, and everywhere I know that has them has a 30 day return policy. If you're looking for one, try it out. You don't have anything to lose. I got mine for $100 at Office Max. Here's a link to the one I've got - ttp://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR900 |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 756 Registered: Feb-04 | Stu, I would think whole squash balls would work if you can keep them from rolling. Maybe a thick washer underneath? A lot of audio equipment come with removable feet, allowing the use of the smaller squash half-balls. With my turntable, the squash balls are between the rack and the maple block. The tt sits on the maple block. Nuck, I haven't actually used pucks underneath the speakers, but it's on my list of things to try. Pucks supporting a concrete paver as platform for the speaker. I have wood floors. Not sure this would work on carpet. Spikes are probably still your best option. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 757 Registered: Feb-04 | Stu, racquet balls are too pliant, but handballs might work in lieu of squash balls. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8240 Registered: May-04 | Gel-filled-squishy-balls work well under tube pre amps. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2125 Registered: Dec-04 | The carpet is thin and on hard concrete, I hope to get to the shop next week and spin off 8 spikes. Heck I can try the pucks and paver this weekend! (didn't make the playoffs)! |
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New member Username: Treasure_islandUK Post Number: 5 Registered: Apr-06 | I recommend damping any piece of kit where you make use of its dacs as apparently they are quite sensitive to small vibrations from transports and power supplies. I use sorbothane (properly weighted) myself and noticed an improvement in background noise and focus across the frequency range especially sibilance and bass aswell as improved bass weight. With my dvd player, because I use an analogue output, I get a cleaner (less grain), more focused (sharper) image. I'd also recommend trying eichmann bullet plugs. I think the correct terms used to describe the change is an improvement in resolution and fine detail. Also a video calibration disc with an spl meter helped with my HT system to get a more accurate setup. |
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New member Username: Treasure_islandUK Post Number: 6 Registered: Apr-06 | Also try replacing the links on your speakers binding posts with short lengths of speaker cable it helps to clear up some distortion. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3009 Registered: Feb-05 | Alright, just got the report from Jim (on the cd cleaning with Pledge). You remember, the guy who owns the audio store and who also is an authorized repair center for several brands. Jim has also been in the business of modding out gear under the name Legend. Bottom line.....he loves it. He took it home this weekend and used it with his home system (Apogee speakers and Audio Research tube and hybrid gear). He was stunned, he said, that the difference was not small but instead very significant "on the order of a component upgrade". He stated that it noticeably improved all of those areas where the audiophile vocabulary can be used. Much like me, he became so swept up in the music that he forgot about the why until the the end of the disc(s). In his words "it's given me a reason to live". We both had a chuckle after that. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 533 Registered: Nov-05 | Better tell Jim to get a girlfriend Art! [grin] Well it seems all the positive reactions to the Pledge or Zaino (or other) disc cleaning treatment surely means this has been non snake oil advice. So far: Positive reactions: 100% Negative reactions: 0% |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1299 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: Whew - always glad that ideas I share with others in the audionutz department actually help! (grin) Now, if there's some way y'all can try the Zaino - you will be most happy afterwards. . . TI - I long ago took off the "strip" connectors between woofer and tweeter - and replaced with short pieces of Blue Jeans cable - same as that which goes from amp to speakers - now all speaker parts are connected with same cable. Sigh - I know I'm supposed to hear "better" sound afterwards - but I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with the fact that my connections are good. Sound is the same. . .for me. Mer and I agree that the Zaino is THE biggest/best "tweak" we've ever used - and HIGHLY recommend it to y'all for use on DVD movies. Once you clean those DVDs, you will know what I mean! ! ! 2C - Mer and I long ago gave up on the "test this speaker cable" routine - and eschewed the super-high-priced stuff for Blue Jeans cable. Nice price, nice sound, happy people. Period. Home Depot 14-gauge cable is probably just as good. If you can hear a difference between that and the $1,000 stuff - then your ears are better-tuned than mine - and my golden-ears wife! Local "hi-end" shop here in Swampville just reported a new shipment of "top quality" CD/SACD players, so I'll away to the shop on Thursday or Friday to see/hear what they've got. The Yammie continues to fade - and even Mer is worried now. But the budget remains tight - so I will have to be sure to get the best bang-for-buck that I can here. . .I must get a multi-player - not just a dedicated CD unit. LR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1301 Registered: Oct-04 | Rantz: did another bit of testing tonight - and wonder. Have you ever noticed that the B&Ws sound much better (ok, subjective) if you are at or below the level where the tweeters-woofers are? I've tried several times to figger out the sound difference - and I guess it must be some sort of phase thing? I can go off-axis either side, and the sound is still fine, but if I listen above the straight-ahead line between woofer and tweeter, the speakers sound more shrill. My sand-filled stands put the speakers just below ear-level when sitting - and I'm now trying to tip the 705s back just a tad. Have you noticed such a problem? Hmm. . . |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 534 Registered: Nov-05 | The tweeters on my 602's sit about 4-6 inches (archaic measurement term) above our ear level in sitting position. Raising my body so my ear is at tweeter level, increases hi-end detail only very slightly (but no shrillness). Our 602's are toed in fully to my central solo listening position and the cones are about 25 - 30 inches out from the wall. No brightness just clean, clear detail. I do have a sneaky suspicion that some of your 'brightness' troubles could be caused by your Yammie. I recall my Yamaha CDP sounded quite edgy and bright way back when, but then it was also connected to a Yamaha amp back then as well. I just don't see this being a correct equation: NAD and B&W = bright! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1302 Registered: Oct-04 | MR - Hmmm - I tried the speakers out into the room a bit, but they were very thin and bright. Now they are about 45 cm (current measuring system!) INTO THE ROOM - and I'm thinking of putting them even closer to the wall. Yeah - the Yammie may be the "bright" problem, after all. May soon find out, if the current player kicks the ole bucket!! (grin) Away (finally!!!) to bed. I wouldn't know what to do with a full night of sleep! LR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3013 Registered: Feb-05 | Sorry Larry but the Pledge works beautifully and fits my budget. Zaino will not be tried. The dedicated cd players in your budget range sound so much better than the universals that I would recommend sticking with a dedicated player. Good luck. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1303 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: Can't blame you a bit, sir. And I'm going to get some Pledge this week - and try it. I need a comparison to see/hear for myself any and all difference, if any or many, between Zaino and Pledge. Although I consider the Zaino a better and cheaper product than Walker Vivid, I still spend more than I'd like. Hmm. . . As to the dedicated CD player - I'm away to our only hope for even decent HiFi shops later this week - to determine first, if they have dedicated CD players, and second to try to audition them with some of my favorite and well-known CDs. My problem with a dedicated unit is simple: I have a lot of SACDs and DVDs to play. Were I to get a dedicated CD player I'd also have to get a SACD/DVD player. Like you with your Pledge price point, getting two players would, for me, be budgetary suicide. But I'm gonna try to listen, anyway! My second, and obvious, point is that - unless there are Huge differences in sonic quality, I simply cannot tell the difference between one "good" unit and another. As I too-often say: "Sigh." LR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3015 Registered: Feb-05 | I hope you find something that really grabs ya! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 537 Registered: Nov-05 | Well, I stained another SACD with the Zaino treatment yesterday. It was Linn recording. Although I have successfully treated other Linn discs, the first one I stained (by applying the stuff in dollops around the disc) happened to be a Linn disc also. This time, I had applied the stuff directly to the padded towel (which I have been doing since I was told). I guess there might be something different about the Linn disc's construction and/or materials. Regardless, both seem to play without error and sound good. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1138 Registered: May-05 | Rantz - Could it be that the Linn discs don't have the mold resistant layer that some were saying was being removed by the cleaners? Peer pressure is getting the best of me, which is an extremly rare occurence. I'm gonna give the anti-static pledge treatment a go this weekend sometime between trying to balance visiting my families (parents divorced and re-married) and Mrs. Stu's family. I hate holiday weekends... Travel 3 hours Everywhere my wife an I go, it feels like we showed up late and left early Maybe when we grow up and have little Stu's, we'll stay home and have everyone come visit us. Then again, I'm pretty sure we're better off running around and splitting time between everyone. Sorry to change directions... Back to the subject at hand - I hate to fall to peer pressure, but I'm pretty sure you old dogs may be onto something here. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 539 Registered: Nov-05 | Actually Stu you may be right - I hear less improvement on these already fine sounding disc than others. As far as the treatment goes, IMHO it works, but there are variances in how much. BTW, my advice is to have the little Stu's while you're young - even though it might be a bit tuff, it's great to have freedom again when you hit mid life. Anyway - Have a good Easter and safe travelling To all! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1304 Registered: Oct-04 | MR, STu, et al - are you sure you don't have one of the SACDs that say - often in small print and on the box - NOT to use any polishing gunk on them??? I have three of those - and have judiciously left them alone. Also - neve put the Zaino directly on the disc - at least the Z-14. Only on an applicator, then put a THIN coating on the disc. By thin I mean so thin that it barely covers. Putting on thick means a greater chance of streaking and scratching. I'm looking up the Linn discs - to see if there's any special caveat regarding cleaning. Stu - the "gunk" referenced is mold release compound, that is sprayed on the metal form onto which is applied the molten polycarbonate. Without the release gunk, it is sometimes hard to separate the poly from the metal (must be a Rock song in there somewhere!!!) And at the rate that most CDs are created, the standards of gunk-amount may, indeed, be lacking. I'm awy to Linn-research - to see if they have the "do not clean" orders. . . LR |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 540 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry - no such warnings on the Linn SACDs. I have others that have had the treatment with no problem. Also, I was under the impression that these treatments were, in part, to rid the discs of the mould release compound. If that is the case then how is that possible if the mould release compound is an application applied beneath the polycarbonate layer? Or have I misunderstood what the cleaning treatment actually does to improve the sound quality? Larry, Jan, anyone? |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1307 Registered: Oct-04 | MR - in making a CD - the polycarbonate is squished into the mold at high pressure - and makes a clear disc with the squiggles and dents on one side, and a smooth surface on the other. then, the aluminum reflecdtive surface is sprayed on the "rough" side. Apparently, the side with the pits and planes comes out of the mold rather well - but the "flat" side tends to stick tight. Thus, as I read it, there is some sort of compound put on the metal stamper to help release the poly disc. If I've got this wrong - I hope somebody corrects me pretty soon! I get this all Online, and from several sources. Now - here's what I do NOT know: is there any kind of mold release gunk put on the side of the disc that will receive the aluminum spray? I doubt it, for that might mean the aluminum wouldn't stick. Why the cleaning imroves sight and sound is completely beyond me - I just know it does. Sorta like those who have a firm belief in Christ or Buddha or Muhammad - they just believe, without firm "proof" of their beliefs. Well - maybe this cleaning-thang is a new religion? Might make about as much sense as a lot of "organized" religion. . .Hmmm.. . On the Linn discs - I can find NOTHING to indicate that you shouldn't buff away. In fact, a remote site referring to Vivid says that the compound is quite safe to use on Linn discs. Sigh. So - why the problem? Not having any Linns to play with, I simply do not know. . .sorry. What I DO know from personal experience, though, is that most of my SACDs have s softer finish on them than Redbook CDs - and I've gotten more tiny scratches with them. I cannot find any reason anywhere. . . My brain-fog is closing in. . . LR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1308 Registered: Oct-04 | MR - in re-reading your earlier posting - I think you may be using too much Zaino? I use a dollup about 6 to 7 mm - on an applicator. One dollup, not many. then when I thin-coat the disc, I let it dry about 30 seconds - no more - and buff off gently. I do this twice, then apply the Z-6. Hope this helps. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 544 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry - I didn't think I've been using too much - at least not any more. Maybe I just need to practice a bit more. Seems like I did misunderstand the mould release application in the cd manufacturing process - I'll try to pay more attention in future :-) So it seems in the final process, the discs are given a quick buff without any real process used to be sure all the compound has been removed. Aha! So (1) the treatment removes all the traces of the compound and (2) creates an optically finer finish on the disc surface allowing the laser beam to read the pits more accurately. By George, I think I've got it! The rain in Spain falls mainly . . . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3018 Registered: Feb-05 | Ya'll need to try the Pledge.....simple with fabulous results. Yippeeeeee!!!!!! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 545 Registered: Nov-05 | Art - if we could get the same Pledge product in this country, I'd certainly try it. I don't know why we can't, just about everything else here is US owned! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2146 Registered: Dec-04 | I have taken delivery of the Finyl application package. Although different in nature to the pledge treatment, I will try cleaning a few newer cd's with it and report back. As well, I have some old, badly treated cd's(read:rolling around in my car) that I will try the brasso treatment on, for scratch removal purposes. Treatment North, Out. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 546 Registered: Nov-05 | Rodger |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1309 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck: I'll be interested to hear about your experiments with Finyl - which is one of the very first CD cleaning "tweaks" to hit the market. Didn't realize they still make it. The Brasso is one of those products that you have to learn how to use. Care in both pressure and rubbing direction are paramount to success. Try it first on some old and sorta worthless CDs - then work up to discs that mean something to you. I'd say it's sorta like Bon Ami - claims are that it never scratches - but. . . . . . . I had one of the most startling demonstrations today of the power of Zaino-cleaning. I'd bought several of the Star Wars movies on DVD. But when I played the classic "Star Wars" on my system it sounded dull, dry and shallow. I was devastated. Put the disc into the "leave me alone" drawer and forgot about it. then, on PBS, Mer was watching some program about the movie and its characters. Got me to thinking - wonder if a good shot or three of Zaino would bring some of that "dead" sound to life. Sooooo - I cleaned the disc three times, and went to sleep. This ayem I told Mer that I was going to "Make some Noise" in the living room. Heated up the Yammie and the NAD for about 15 minutes, then slipped in the DVD. Holy Kamollymallies, Batman! I couldn't believe my ears! Was this the same disc that I'd birched about months ago??? Yep - same one. I'll never know what makes this stuff work - but watching that DVD today made me sit back in wonder and sheer joy. Mer shattered it all, however, when she ran into the room to remind me that our condo-neighbors would surely be over with sticks and stones to make me turn down the sound. Sigh. OK, OK - maybe they'll move out and I can let-er rip? Hmm. . .old Dawgs dream on. . .and on. . . LR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3022 Registered: Feb-05 | I was reading something online recently where someone was comparing Finyl to Optrix and concluded that the Optrix worked quite a bit better. Another of my friends who owns an audio store has decided to give the Pledge a try. I'm not sure when she will do it but soon I would guess. I'll be going up to Portland to visit her store in a couple of weeks I'll ask her then how it worked. Unless she is suffering from hearing loss I think I already know the answer. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1149 Registered: May-05 | I didn't want to believe the hype... I picked up a bottle of Pledge Multi Surface. I didn't want the aerosol can because it always sprays inconsistantly for me. It's anti-static, and one of the uses is electronics. I'm pretty sure it's the same thing as what everyone has described, only non aerosol. The best way to sum it up would be to say it opened up my music. Soundstage widened dramaticlly, deepened somewhat, and imaging is more precise. Their's much more seperation and less overlaping of instruments and vocals. Everything has such a better sense of space around it. As stupid as it may sound, music sounds louder. It also revealed a few details in some recordings that I didn't know were there. It made my rock cd's sound a lot closer to 'hi-fi' recordings. I tried about 10 cd's, and only one didn't improve. It just happened to be the first one. Looking back, I may not have used enough on that one. I was more concerned with what if I use too much and ruin the disc. I'll try cleaning it again later. I've always been skeptical about tweaks. This one is the real deal. Thanks a bunch!!! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 548 Registered: Nov-05 | Stu - what you are hearing seems like what we are hearing. It's all good, mostly. Larry, yet to try it on the DVD's. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1150 Registered: May-05 | If it's all in our heads, I guess ignorance is bliss! My way of testing it was listening to two or three tracks on a cd before cleaning, then the same songs afterward. IMO it happened too often and was too dramatic to question it. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3024 Registered: Feb-05 | Question? How often must one clean the CD's? Hopefully not often. Stu, I'm hearing things on discs that I never have. It's amazing! My friend Jim is the ultimate skeptic and he is blown away. And yes they sound louder because we're hearing more information...ain't it great. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2163 Registered: Dec-04 | I'm trying to figgure out a business oportunity angle on all this hard work being done here. Send your cd and we magically improve it, type of thing. Then stick a piece of foil on it before returning it, just to throw them off, hehe. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1311 Registered: Oct-04 | All: I thihnk that Jan will agree with me - you really only have to clean the CDs once. However, if they're used a lot, it wouldn't hurt to clean them every few months or so. I just played a CD that I'd cleaned last Fall, and it was just fine. But then, I really try to keep them from grit and fingermarks. Rantz et al: Do me a favor - IF - you have a DVD of the original Star Wars movie. Play it. Play it again. Just the first five minutes each time. Then put on either Pledge or Zaiino. Now play it again and see/hear what I meant when I said I was simply blown away by the difference. So was Mer - who knew of my real depression after hearing the DVD the first time. Again - what does this stuff do? Aside from the simplistic "cleans off residue and smooths polycarbonate surface" I simply do not know. Nor do I know why it improves some discs and barely changes others. Sigh. When I first used Vivid (seemingly ages ago) I knew there was a difference - and Mer sat down and wanted "more" of the cleaned discs. Her hearing is vastly better than mine, obviously, and the changes she describes go far beyond "placebo" effect. Nuck: Buy some Zaino, re-label it, sell it for $40USD a bottle - and you've got a business deal! Of course, there's always the problem of the Zaino folks suing you, but what the heck - it's the great American way. OOPS - forgot your Canadian - maybe it is NOT the Great Canadian Way! (double grin) LR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3027 Registered: Feb-05 | That's what is kind of amazing about the Pledge is that I have not listened to a disc yet where difference wasn't dramatic. I listened to my Wynton Marsalis "Reeltime" disc last night (after cleaning). This is a disc that I used to take with me to high end stores to demo equipment. Last night my system was sounding better (if not as large in scale) than any of the esoteric systems that I've heard with that disc. I was speechless (and that is a considerable achievement). "Buy some Zaino, re-label it, sell it for $40USD a bottle - and you've got a business deal! Of course, there's always the problem of the Zaino folks suing you, but what the heck - it's the great American way." Which one Larry, stealing the Zaino or the legal remedy...lol!! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2167 Registered: Dec-04 | More aptly, the canadian way is to invent something, have it stolen, buy the thief a beer, shrug and carry on. Then complain, but do nothing about it, other than challenge the thief to a pick-up 3-on-3. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1153 Registered: May-05 | As I was reading in the bathroom this morning, I too was contemplating how to package Pledge as an 'Audiophile Tweak.' I was thinking 4 oz spray bottles for $35. I'd have to add a little fragrance (sp?) to throw off the scent and truly be able to call it my own blend. I'd call it something like Stu Pitt's Stu Pendous CD Cleaner & Treatment. Then again, a more serious name would probably give it a lot more respect. $35 for a 4 oz bottle wouldn't be an outrageous price relative to this market, yet not too cheap to be dismissed. Their are probably far more expensive cleaners out their that simply don't work. Seeing as how the 28 oz bottle cost me $4, I figure the profit margin is gonna be pretty good. I can probably get it for less than half that if I were buying in quantities or industrial sized containers. To keep making money, I'd say best results are achieved using the spray once every 3-4 months on each CD, depending on usage. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1155 Registered: May-05 | Maybe I shouldn't have posted that. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1157 Registered: May-05 | Art - I just ordered the Speed Box for my 1Xpression. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1313 Registered: Oct-04 | Stu-pendous? do I hear dogs barking in the background? Or is it the rustle of Nun-derwear? Hmm. . . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3029 Registered: Feb-05 | Hey Stu did you hear that the new 2Xpression has detachable interconnects.....oh well. I have my Speed Box hooked up again and it really works well. It was a hundred bucks well spent. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1158 Registered: May-05 | Larry - It's possible Art- Detachable IC's and different feet. Thanks for the re-assurance w/ the Speed Box. After I get used to these tweaks, I think I may give listening to interconnects a shot again. Even though it goes against by beliefs, I can be open minded. You use ones made by your dealer for not much money, right? Any chance they would mail me a pair or two down the road? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3032 Registered: Feb-05 | Stu, below you will find links to the materials used to make my IC's and speaker cable. If it interests you I will talk to my dealer. These are my interconnects and plugs. I believe that the plugs he uses are the same with some sort of teflon element. http://www.jscwire.com/jsc_ss.taf?p=3060 http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-400 These are the speaker cables (12 guage). https://secure.libertycable.com/ecomm/catalog/cat_page.php?group=305 With these spades (or very similar). http://www.araccessories.com/Cultures/en-US/Recoton+AR/Product+Catalog.htm?Model Num=PR406&CatalogNavigationBreadCrumbs=Recoton%20-%20Acoustic%20Research;Premium%20Interconnects;PRO%20II%20Series;PRO%20II%20Series;Connectors;Spade%20 Connectors&ProductDetail=YES I use banana's to connect the speaker cable to the sub from my tube integrated. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=091-330 Inexpensive and very effective, just the way I like it. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1161 Registered: May-05 | Thanks Art. It looks like some quality stuff. Good and cheap make a great combination. I've gotta get used to the way things sound before I start changing it up again. I'll let you know when the time is right. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2172 Registered: Dec-04 | Jeez, Art, you have been holding back on me! hehe, thanks for the links. Has anyone used the pledge on a blank before recording and done an A/B for results? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4117 Registered: Dec-03 | Good question, Nuck. When we were discussing "vivid" I asked if a copy made from a "vivid"-treated original was a better copy. The answer, if I recall, was "that is what they say". For me, this casts doubt on the whole thing. What if you "vivid" treat the copy, and copy that....? Is each copy better than the last...? Where does it end....? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1162 Registered: May-05 | The best any copy could ever be is as good as the original. I'd think that if you treated an original and copied it to a treated blank, it would sound the same at best. If it got every single 1 and 0 correct, how could it get better? |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 551 Registered: Nov-05 | "For me, this casts doubt on the whole thing" You're right John - it all BS. We're all full of it! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2180 Registered: Dec-04 | It never ends...like the Breck's hair commercials for women. And so on, and so on, and so on... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2181 Registered: Dec-04 | But Stu, the original had all the digits in order, you have heard it. Now, after polishind the 0's around the arcs, and standing the 1's upright, there is a difference. I must think that a well prepared blank disc would better represent the original material in it's best state. Ja? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1163 Registered: May-05 | Yes, the original CD has all the digits in order. I could be way off base, but here's my theory - The problem is that the transport could not read all of the digits before treatment, and had to fill in the blanks. After treatment, the transport has a much easier time reading the 1's and 0's, therefore their is less error correction that needs to be done. The less errors in reading, the more true to the original recording. I don't think any transport will ever read every single 1 and 0 correctly, hence transports that are better than others I guess. Judging by what people have said here and in the other thread, my best guess is that the mold release layer (I think that's what was being removed) somehow blurs what the laser is trying to read. After the layer is removed, the laser can work far more accurately, and the player doesn't have to 'guess' as much, or fill in as many blanks. i.e. - Code is 110011 Before treatment, transport can only read 1_00_1 After treatment, transport can now read 110011 Less blanks needed to be filled in. So theoretically, if all of the 1's and 0's were read correctly from the original and burned correctly onto the blank, their couldn't possibly be any improvement on the copy, nor any subsequent copies of copies. They'd all be coded exactly the same, therefore, SQ would be the same on the same CD player. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2186 Registered: Dec-04 | No doubt, Stu, that re-recording a disc is making the best of available digits. Sorry ir my post lead otherwise. However, having maximized the available digits on the 'master' and the clean space on the 'slave' should maximize the chances for HQ. As for the mould release, maybe read again. The form is ultra-clean and devoid of any contamination on the 'good' side. The release agent is applied to the 'smooth' side,the one with the label. The smooth label side is the upper release of the die, and will not affect the useful side at all, unless the pressing station is rather sloppy with their environment. Of course the side 'B' of 'rubber soul' wasn't so bad. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1314 Registered: Oct-04 | All: You know? I think I.m getting a headache over all this. I clean my discs. They sound much better. I tell people of my happiness, and hope they find the same. Sorta like a preacher with his message - I hope that ALL of you find better sound for little investment and time. If I find anything else "new," I.ll post it - but at the risk of sounding "rude, crude or impertinent," I think I.ll just sorta sit on the sidelines for awhile, and watch what you all are saying. I wish you all the best . . . With great respect to all . .a tired ole man, LR |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4122 Registered: Dec-03 | "If it got every single 1 and 0 correct, how could it get better?" Thanks, Stu, this is what I do not understand. OK, let's assume that it has something to do with error correction. If this is part of the explanation, then how come our computers, with their cheap drives, can read, and write, and then checksum the copy to verify that it is identical with the original? Such that a copy of the copy etc.... is identical the first, no matter how many times you repeat the cycle? Also remembering that our cheap computer drives will do this at 12x speed or whatever, while our CD players with fancy transports etc. are not asked to read at more than 1x. Now, it is true, and I learned here, that there are other factors in the sound you get from a CD players; the DACs; the clock; etc. But these are unaffected by treating the disc. No? If they are; how? In the end, playing an audio CD is reading digital data, optically. If the read-out is completely accurate, which is attainable, and can be verified, then what are these disc treatments actually doing? No offence, anyone. I just ask the question, hoping to understand. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3036 Registered: Feb-05 | "No offence, anyone." No offense taken. I suggest you try the Pledge John. The difference is phenomenal. I wish I was as curious as you guys but I am just not. If it works then that's really all that matters to me. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4125 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks, Art. I take you seriously. Also Larry, MR, and other advocates, here. I have some duplicate CDs. I'll give it a try, one day, for sure. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1164 Registered: May-05 | John - I'm just trying to explain what I think is happening the best I can. The more I look into it and think about it, the more I realize I don't know why it sounds better. But in the end, it really doesn't matter much to me as to why or how it works. The most important thing to me is that it does. I've got to go the way of Art here. It sounds better to my ears, and not just a tad bit that may be passed off as psychological. My advice is give it a go. I haven't heard anyone say it ruined a disc (Rantz said one or two got stained, but no other problems). The cleaners cost about $5. If it doesn't work, you've got something that'll clean other things around the house. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3063 Registered: Feb-05 | The stained ones were SACD's, no such issues with cd's. Yippee! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 553 Registered: Nov-05 | From the Zaino website: "Q: Are Micro-Fiber products safe to use? A: Zaino has been testing various Micro-Fiber products. Unfortunately, the jury is still out on them. Some of them are excellent and do not scratch. Others are terrible and definitely scratch. The quality control of these products from overseas, especially Korea, is not consistent, so you never know if they will be the same scratch-free quality. Even when using the same brand, we found the quality to be inconsistent. For now, we do not recommend using them. However, lab testing is ongoing, and we will post an update when we have more conclusive results. NOTE: If you are already using microfiber towels, look carefully at your paint finish under flourescent light when you are using your towels. If you are not getting any swirls or fine scratches from the microfiber towels, then you are okay and can continue to use them. Remember it's better to be safe than swirly." Hmmmmm! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 554 Registered: Nov-05 | I did some searching about the microfibre as I got more fine scratches using this cloth today - even the car polish manufacture won't endorse it fully yet - and that's what they are made for. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1319 Registered: Oct-04 | MR et al - I have to say that, with the MF towels I use, I get essentially no scratches - and those that do show up usually are the result of some piece of grit that gets snagged in the towel. I try to remember to shake out the towel three or four times before each cleaning, but then I sometimes get in a rush. . . . My towels have very small "loops" on them - they are not flat cloth. And I find that I get far less scratching with them than I ever did with the Viva paper towels. I've tried other towels - scratched. Soooo - in my case, the micro fiber stuff is a "go." real sorry about the scratches, chaps - but I know that putting just a tad too much pressure on the towel as you buff will, indeed, bring out some tiny scratches. Sigh. However - I doubt that most of these scratches will affect the laser - unless - the scratch follows a track round and round the disc. And - what's the alternative? Back to Viva, I guess. Unless you can find an old sock of the sort that Jan says he's used. . . One add: I've found that the SACDs are much more prone to scratching than Redbook CDs. . . LR |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 555 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry - I have been shaking the towels, they seem similar to ones you are using going by your description and I agree there is not much to use as an alternative. The fine scratches don't seem to do any harm except they may cause software corrections and the less corrections the better I suppose. Anyway, it is still a worthy tweak imho, and I'll continue with it and also seek other wiping materials. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1320 Registered: Oct-04 | MR: I think I've tried about everything from several paper towel brands to terry towels to some "fine texture" towels my wife got for guests - none has equalled the microfibre, IMHO. And yes, sir, any software correction is bad, though I somehow doubt that the ultra-fine "scratches" you may refer to will cause much correction. If you have to look very hard to see the scratches, I wouldn't worry too much. I do find that the disc surface varies from label to label - and as I posted before, the SACDs for some reason seem more prone to scratches. I'm pretty well set with my Zaino and microfibre towels, and just have to constantly watch for grit - as well as using very light pressure on the towels! If you ever use the Zaino on some of your DVD movies, I think you'll be delighted. With both sight and sound. Also - in answer to several folk on several threads, I don't think you have to use Zaino all that often - I use it once, then only apply again if I've used a disc many times in a short time span. LR |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3076 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm just curious as to what Jan meant by "everday use". I would like to hear from him on the frequency of cleaning question. I have determined that I will likely buy the Zaino Z6 to finish the process with my CD's next time I can afford it. What do ya'll think of Pledge for the clean and Z6 to finish. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1323 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: In all honesty, I think if you want to go with the Zaino products - I'd suggest the Z-14 and forget about the Z-6. While it does put a bit more sheen on the discs, and has good anti-static qualities, I would rather have the cleaning/buffing power of the Z-14 above all. Not having used Pledge (yet) I will have to try it before I make a definitive statement. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8283 Registered: May-04 | OK, I guess this discussion has moved to this thread now. Pledge and Z-6? Great! I find the combination to be exceptional and don't think I could hear the difference between that process and the two Zaino products in combination. I haven't done any A-B comps but I'm quite satisfied with the Pledge/Z-6 combo. It's easy and cheap, no possibility of applying too much or too little, makes a noticeable improvement in virtually every disc and has no down sides that I can for see. That is dependent on a thorough cleaning with the correct materials after each application. I haven't compared the results with an old sock and a new MF towel, that seems a bit too A/R. But the surface of the dsc certainly looks and feels better after the MF buffing. And while the jury seems to be out on the MF towels, they are cheap and work well if you remove the materials with very light, parallel strokes. My MF towel - I think I'll keep her. How much Pledge is too much? I don't think you can get too much of the Pledge product on a disc. I advocate using as little as needed to get the job done simply because more doesn't serve any purpose and will make the towels or pads you use to remove the material damp very quickly and then you just have to change out the towels more often. No big deal there. The Pledge begins to evaporate as you wipe with the cosmetic sponge, so I use enough to keep the surface damp until I can wipe it with the Finyl Pad. Then I use the MF and find I can feel the smoothness of the surface come up from what the velvet pad left. A spray with the Z-6 and a wipe with the MF seems to give a bit more desirable "feel" and appearance to the disc surface. "Everyday" means as often as I feel needed. Discs I've treatedtwo or six months ago will get a quick wipe with a cloth very lightly dampened with Pledge, now Z-6, before they go in the machine. This is not a heavy duty cleaning but just a quick wipe to remove any pollutants that might be on the surface. Does it make any difference? Probably not but I don't hear it hurting the disc either. I have noticed the surface of the CD's varies and some will scratch more easily than others. I haven't bothered to make a study of which manufacturer's/label's discs are more prone to scratching. Once again it seems too O/C. And since discs for one label are probably coming out of different plants, I doubt there's really any way to do such a comparison. None of my discs have been damaged to the extent I was concerned or didn't think the overall results are worth the benefits. Art, now that your one friend has found the value of Pledge and a soft towel, is he going to put a few cans of Pledge in his accessories case as a CD tweak? Is he passing this on to clients or keeping it to himself? Has anyone else experimented with the green/black edge treatment? I think this was another subject John and I discussed over many posts last year. Guess which side John was on. For the record, I'm now using a broad, flat tipped Sharpie with black ink to do the edges of any plain CD-R. Plain referring to other than the Memorex black CD-r's which my burner doesn't always want to copy to. (I don't have a clue as to why the burner likes these one day and not the next.) I did find a batch of Memorex "Printable" CD-R's the other day with a pure white side for the label. These discs would seem a good alternative as the label side is a solid material rather than having the conventional silver of the aluminum substrate showing through. They were/are on sale at RS; 30 discs for $7.99. I've never found the black CD-R's on sale. A quick trip around the egde of the disc with the Sharpie and a good cleaning with Pledge and Z-6 and I'm ready to record. So, yes, I clean my CD-R's before I record. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8284 Registered: May-04 | Back to the "tweaks" of the thread title. If you haven't read the May Stereophile, Sam Tellig comments on the Ayre Myrtle Wood Blocks at $5 each. The head honcho at Ayre admits they are based upon using Jenga Blocks (http://www.hasbro.com/jenga/), which can be purchased for about $15 for 50 blocks, as isolation devices. Ayre admits the Jengas work quite well but suggests his (more expensive) blocks are made from "better" wood and are cut to Golden Ratio proportions. Tellig reports immediately noticeable improvements when the Myrtle Blocks were placed under his DVD player. Also on the isolation front; has anyone tried pumice stones? You can pick these up at a drug store for a few dollars and they work exceptionally well under some devices. Especially when the equipment is heavy enough to stress a few squash balls. The stones are meant to remove calluses from your feet and elbows and are lightweight and open celled in composition. I use three rectangular pieces (haven't checked for Golden ratios) under each Mac amplifier. Two on the (heavy) transformer side and one in front under the tubes. The stones sit upon my ubiquitous two marble tiles with a few pieces of cork (coasters from Crate and Barrel) between the tiles. The amplifiers have three spikes replacing the feet and the spikes each sit on a penny placed on top of the stone (to keep the spike from digging into the soft stone). The benefits are quite obvious from having the mono amplifiers sitting on the floor behind the speakers. Not counting the spikes, which I had from some speaker projects, the whole arrangement costs about $10 per amplifier. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8285 Registered: May-04 | Sorry - make the $10.01. I forgot the penny between the spike and stone. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 919 Registered: Oct-04 | " And while the jury seems to be out on the MF towels, they are cheap and work well if you remove the materials with very light, parallel strokes. " Whoa, whoa, I always thought parallel wiping was very bad for a disc and all cleaning should be done from the centre out, perpindicular to the grain of grooves on the disc. Just bought my Pledge Mulitsurface Anti-static yesterday and have begun experimenting with different discs. So far I can definitively say it improves the soundstage of all discs. On a completely different level I cleaned a Xbox 360 video game prone to lock-ups and haven't had a problem since. Good stuff! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3080 Registered: Feb-05 | "Art, now that your one friend has found the value of Pledge and a soft towel, is he going to put a few cans of Pledge in his accessories case as a CD tweak? Is he passing this on to clients or keeping it to himself?" I haven't talked to Jim this week but my guess is that he will definitely buy some for home and share the results with his audiophile customers. I doubt he will share it with casual customers for fear that they will mess it up and blame him. I will ask him to be sure as I'm curious as well. I'm sharing with everyone I know and asking them to bring me a disc for demo if they are worried about doing themselves. I'm very excited about the results. I'm pretty A/R and so if I can live the little scratches (most of really aren't even scartches) you can rest assured that it is worth it! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 557 Registered: Nov-05 | " I'm pretty A/R and so if I can live the little scratches (most of really aren't even scartches) you can rest assured that it is worth it!" I agree Art. In fact, those fine scratches I mentioned are really only visible directly under an overhead light, I'm hard pressed seeing them otherwise. But I will be keeping my eyes open for something more reliable than the MF cloth - although it's better than the Viva (and other) paper towels. As far as the pens go - the disc with the most remarkable improvement following the treatment, was Sade's Diamond Life on which I used a black marker around the edge. I made a bit of a mess doing (wrong type of tip), hence I haven't used it on any more so I'm not sure whether the benefit was due to extra pen treatment or coincidence. I must try another I guess. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1325 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan, et al: A long time ago in a city far away, I did an exhaustive (and exhausting) TV story on the CD Stoplight green pen. Interviewed the manufacturer, interviewed CD reviewers - and set up an A-B comparison in the very-hi-end studios of Chicago's WFMT FM station. The final report aired on CNN and the Chicago Tribune TV stations across the country - and I got a TON of mail. Most of it: "Well I wasted my money and can't hear anything better, so I'm angry with you for the report." Sigh. Double sigh. The station's various meters and scopes could determine no difference - but some of us claimed that the sound was fuller and smoother on some of the discs - not all. I can't remember all the equipment, but it was very, very good stuff! For years I kept up a regular edge-coating ritual, first green, then black. Recently, I tried again to hear any difference, and could not. Thus, I no longer coat the discs, but I DO give the outer edge a light sanding with a 3M Green Scrubbie pad - just in case it helps prevent light reflection off the edge. One word of warning, however - IF you have some very old CDs where the aluminum reflective surface comes out to the edge, do NOT sand that edge. It will eventually degrade the metal layer and ruin the disc. CDs produced from about the early 90s on have a clear poly area between aluminum layer and the edge, which is easy to spot. I cannot say that the pen-marking makes a definite improvement - it may or may not. But if you think it does - then it does! And heck, why not? Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Bronze Member Username: Mortal_oneCanada Post Number: 32 Registered: Nov-04 | Well, well the fanatics are at it again!!! I have spent more time than I care to admite "tweaking" what equipment I have. I and love the pledge! Take the pedgle challenge! Should be a commercial. I did a little test today. One a box set recording of Ella Fitzgerald, terrible resordings, Can not even listen to them, really painful strident treble. Sounds like crap, made by www.membran.net . I have listened to this as my improvement measure for about a year. So on comes the pedgle! First I have a product that is no longer made that is a two step process to clean CD's, comes with it's own chamy and special cloth. First part "wax" slightly thick solution and then "polish". 3 minutes to do one CD. Have not used this for a long time, mostly on dirty CD's. Cleaned one disc. Second, sprayed some pledge missed the furniture and hit the CD, wiped it of and away I went. Third, still cleaning the place up and I hit anouther CD with the pledge, clean that one two. Left it out of it's case and some kid run up to it and marks it up with a bunch of pens! Stuck each one in the player. Had to make sure they still work. Fancy cleaner sounds not to bad. Happy and I listen to two tracks. Put the disc away and put in the second one. PLEDGE I love you! I listend to the whole CD not just the cuts I like! Now I am not saying that this has made the disc the best thing ever, but I enjoy listening to it. No Mofi record, but I can enjoy it and not want to turn it off. Third is the one that kid messed up. Well it's not that bad just around the edges and some in the middle. Stick that one in. Smooth! Like the pledge but with more space! So I grab all the kids pens and tell him to run home to mommy and practice painting as he might need it in the future. I would put this "tweak" in there with hmmmmm...... Nothing. This is very different and should be done to every CD you own. By the way, I have used three different materials to "clean" after the pledge and none scratches the CD. Paper towel, generic form Wal-Mart, Camois "fancy" and eye glass cloth. No difference in the amount scratches, as in none. Some pressure not to much. Also did one DVD with just the pledge. Much improved width, soundstage and engaging feel to the movie, actually makes you want to watch it! The movie was "troy". No edge treatment as it is a rental! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3091 Registered: Feb-05 | Larry, I wish I could see that report it sounds fun. I remember when I used to use the green pen treatment. I thought it made a difference for awhile, then I stopped hearing a difference and quit doing it. This is a great thread! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1328 Registered: Oct-04 | Art et al: Sigh - the green pen report was done back in the late 80s - I don't even have the script, let alone the videotape. Sorry. . . Basically, I interviewed the manufacturer, then a half-dozen audio reviewers - then we took a dozen people into the FM studios, and set up a blind testing. The "victims" could hear, but not see, the player and its disc-changing people. I wish I could remember the speakers, player, etc., but simply cannot. The test ran over two days - at the end of which I edited the results (we had about five hours of videotape!) and concluded, simply, that these trained "listeners" could tell which disc was green-lined less than 20% of the time - flipping a coin would give you better results than that! One thing that stuck out in my mind, though, was that nobody could tell the difference in the jazz CDs, only the classical ones. We did not do "Rock." After the test, the program director at the station suggested having a little fun. So - we opened up the drapes hiding the CD player, and had a staffer show the discs to the "victims" before putting them in the player. This time - no surprise - most of the reviewers thought they could hear differences, and opined that the green-lined ones sounded a bit better, after all! Un-huh - power of suggestion! In my disc-cleaning testing, Mer and I have tried to be honest and up-front about what we've heard, or not heard. She, as I've posted too many times, instantly heard great improvement. I had a harder time, but agree with her in substance. My greatest shock was in watching treated DVD movies, where our humble TV set suddenly looked like a much more expensive one - and where the movie soundtrack took on a more 3-D aspect. Now, we clean every DVD we rent! (shhh - don't tell Blockbuster!) |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8295 Registered: May-04 | Not one of these is as cool as Pledge on your CD's. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/tweaks/tweakspage3.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: Blazingarrow74Chicago, IL U.S.A. Post Number: 20 Registered: Mar-06 | Wow ... what an interesting thread ... Question: if there aren't any visible scratches or dirt on CDs or DVDs, will the Pledge and Z6 make a difference? ... and when using a non-dedicated cd player like a disc drive in a computer, with an audio player like iTunes, with ERROR CORRECTION OFF, wouldn't the bitstream be forced into a state of verbatim ... I don't know much about the technicalities that govern these processes, so I'm sure there are things I am missing ... I guess ... worst-case scenario, you just end-up with "blanks" in the bitstream huh ? Would you prefer a true-to-source bitstream with gaps, or "50% Chance" true-to-source error-correction? ... and by-the-way ... the placebo effect is a wonderful thing ... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3104 Registered: Feb-05 | I'd just prefer not to use my computer for music (yet), that's just me. |
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Bronze Member Username: Blazingarrow74Chicago, IL U.S.A. Post Number: 21 Registered: Mar-06 | Art, for serious listening, I use my Home Setup ... but away from home, I can still get pretty good sound with my Laptop and the PCMCIA sound card, for music stored on my hard-drive (Mostly in WAV format) ... it's just convenient ... One thing that I heard helps a listening experience is "freeing-up" the circuits in your home ... for those of us who do not live alone, this usually means waiting until late-night >>> Early-Morning to listen ... I don't know what is is that really makes the difference (lack of complex circuitry, lack of ambient noise, lack of daily purpose etc.) but I have noticed it too ... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3105 Registered: Feb-05 | Me too...all is quiet except the lovely sound of music... |
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Bronze Member Username: Blazingarrow74Chicago, IL U.S.A. Post Number: 22 Registered: Mar-06 | Hey Art ... got a post for you in the CD Player Forum ... Check it out ... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8296 Registered: May-04 | Here's a litle something, literally, that might be beneficial to some of you. I just tried the Grungebuster II CD mat and can report good, but not outstanding, results. However, the thing sells for the price of a used CD; so what exactly can you expect? One piece "treats" every CD you own. CD mats have fallen out of favor over the years as CD player manufacturers have (intentionally)built transports less friendly to any additional materials in the drawer. This piece is easy to use (check the Hubcaps for something very easy to use) and gives you your money's worth and then a bit more. Nothing startling or jaw dropping, on some music you might not even notice the improvements the mat provides. I assume, as with many mats, the benefits are dependent on the transport quality of your CD player. On the Denon 2900 the general effect is a bit more (desireable? analog-like? life-like?) smoothness throughout the frequency bandwidth, a better sense of start and stop to notes and a slightly broader dynamic swing. Percussion sounds cleaner with the mat in place, including anything from big drums to sticks on cymbals. The music seems a bit more lightweight when the mat is removed; though I then know it's not there, so maybe I just think the quality is lessened. If your musical tastes run mostly to rock, I don't think this is the mat you want to try. For all other music, the increased separation of instrumental lines when using the mat is sufficient to warrant spending $8 plus S&H. The site also includes many other well reviewed items such as the LP platter mat and tube dampers. Check under the misc. file for some very useful stuff. There are isolation/vibration control sheets and washers and all sorts of items to tweek your imagination. The thread is well worth a look, though, as with all such sites, take everything with a grain of common sense. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8297 Registered: May-04 | While doing some research on LP cleaners, I came across a suggestion for picking an effective Microfiber cloth. Run your fingers across the surface of the cloth, which allows the microfibers to cling to your skin. The more the cloth responds to your touch, the better the cloth is made. While at the auto parts store today, I tried this with a few cloths they had hanging in the "cleaners and polishes" section. Some clothes did almost nothing when I lightly ran my fingers across the surface. One set of towels in particular could be lifted off the hanger by very light pressure from my hand. The difference between these towels and all the others was noticeable. These are going to be tried on my LP's first. I'll let you know if I ruin a few records with them. Thankfully, I guess, some of my used LP purchases of late have once more proven an interesting cover or title is not always the key to a decent album. So I have plenty of round bits of vinyl with which I can experiment, and if they get ruined - well, they started life with the world against them anyway. Is anybody doing any serious LP cleaning any longer? I just ordered a Disc Doctor cleaning machine to help with the few new, and expensive to my tastes, LP's I'm finding. And it should do a good job on the used bargains I've come across. Or so I'm lead to believe. I used to clean all my LP's at the shops I worked at and never bothered to buy a cleaning machine for my own until now. I almost opted for the DIY vacuum machine route which is something I've used many times when I'd pick up a used LP that I wanted to hear that night. The Disc Doctor seemed low priced enough, simple to use and rugged enough, to warrant the money spent. I've always preferred the VPI's for their build and overall quality but I couldn't justify the price difference when the Nitty Gritty machines (which is what the DD amounts to in plain clothes) do as good a job. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3112 Registered: Feb-05 | I use a manual Nitty Gritty for records. Does a fine job. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2238 Registered: Dec-04 | If two are a duo, then three would make the nitty gritty dirt buster band. A bit of a reach, but... |