Need advice on receiver/speakers $2000
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New member Username: ChapsSan Francisco, CA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Feb-07 | Being unsophisticated as to equipment, I need your help for music in my new 1BR apartment. There is a den where a built in cabinet under a TV has speaker wires linked to some older speakers in the living room wall. The den and LR are open to one another (no doors). Question is: if I mainly want music (classical and soft rock) and want to spend around $2,000, what would you choose for a receiver? A dvd player? Speakers? And would you opt for one good set of speakers or put a second set (bookcase size) in the den? If I have to spend more to do it well, please advise. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5821 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi Charlotte. You might want to look at the Outlaw RR2150 receiver. www.outlawaudio.com It does everything(and has a lot of guts). If you want to use a DVD player as a cd player too, you have a lot of choices. The Cambridge A340D player is quite versatile, and well priced. The speakers are very difficult. In an apt, you do not need a subwoofer, but some bass would sure be nice? Perhaps Psb B25 speakers on stands would not make things too rough on the neighbors, but make you happy. Now, with that done(whew), tell us what music you like, volume level when you get rowdy, what you expect from the system and any other sources of music that you have.(ipod, pc,cd player, etc). |
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New member Username: ChapsSan Francisco, CA USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Feb-07 | thanks. I'll look into your suggestions. I just went to two stores for information but they each only carry certain brands. One recommended a Marantz receiver SR4320 and DVD player DV4001 plus bookshelf Snell K17 speakers ($1200/pr) plus installation for around $2600. The other recommended a Denon for around $600 and small Paradigm speakers ($250/pr) or Triad speakers ($800 pr)plus install. Do either of these suggestions make sense or do you think your original Outlaw receiver and Psb speakers are the way to go? One concern is I don't want speakers on stands in the den. It's too small (though open) and all the built in bookcases/cabinetry mean furniture has to be minimal. So the second set in the den has to be small and to the sides of the TV. The other set is already built in the lilving room wall. Re your questions, I don't really turn up the music very loudly (unless opera or occasionally for more sound) and use it as background, mood. I currently have an Ipod with Bose speaker and a PC but the sound isn't great. I want to use the built in living room speakers and possibly a second set in the den--but small next to the TV. Any help will really be appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3991 Registered: Feb-05 | The Outlaw receiver makes sense but there are many speakers to look at. Add to that the fabulous Cambridge Audio Azur 540D DVD player and one of the finest mini monitors around the Usher Audio S520 and you have ahighly musical system with money left over for music and movies. http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=16&Title=Azur%20540D%20the%20DVD%2 0player%20of%20choice%20for%20perfect%20pictures http://www.usheraudiousa.com/products/loudspeakers/usher-series/s-520-shielded Enjoy! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3993 Registered: Feb-05 | Something else I should mention is that if you ever want to try SACD and DVD-A, or at least want the choice to try it if you want, Cambridge also makes a very good budget universal player the DV89 that is still well within the stated budget and leaves that all too fine money left over for music, movies and maybe even wine... http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=113&Title=DVD89 Also consider receivers by NAD and Rotel: http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-receivers/C720BEE-Stereo-Receiver http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rx1052.htm I used to own that Rotel receiver and it's a knockout. Enjoy your shopping. BTW I'm sticking with my speaker recommendation...it seems to fit you application. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5832 Registered: Dec-04 | And don't forget the Denon 3930 DV player that was recommended to me. |
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New member Username: ChapsSan Francisco, CA USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Feb-07 | How do you find a US dealer for the Cambridge player? And any idea of the price of the Rotel or NAD receivers you recommended? So, any consensus on what I should buy with my $2,000? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4019 Registered: Feb-05 | You've been given a lot of suggestions but we can't do the listening for you. The NAD and Rotel receivers are $700 and $800 respectively, last I looked. The Usher speakers which are small, front ported and come in a number of finishes ar $400 but about to go up in price and the players that I have recommended are $300-$400. Nuck didn't pay attention to the budget and the player he recommends is about 75% of your budget. California Cambridge dealers; http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/dealers_region.php?TRID=11&Title=California |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5844 Registered: Dec-04 | Oops. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4027 Registered: Feb-05 | Hey Nuck it's still a great player! It seems I have said oops enough in the last 2 days, it's your turn...lol! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1915 Registered: Sep-04 | I'm somewhat confused by the answers that have been given to Charlotte here. I do not see any requirement for a video source so I don't understand why people are recommending DVD players to Charlotte. The reason I'm surprised and confused by this is that the more knowledgeable folk who have contributed here know that a dedicated CD player is usually quite superior musically to a DVD player. I guess the only fly in the ointment would be DVD-A and SACD. Charlotte, if you have intentions of buiilding a DVD-A or SACD collection, then you'd need to consider theat, but I don't get the impression that's what you're after. SACD and DVD-A are high quality format audio-only discs. SACD comes in stereo and surround formats, DVD-A is a surround format only. Neither have been very successful in gaining market traction but they have ardent followers. A universal player, so called because it can play CD, DVD, SACD, DVD-A and some others is a player which has been designed to be able to play all types of disc, BUT this means it's very often a jack of all trades and master of none, so musically I find they are usually compromised by comparison to dedicated machines. If all you want is to play CDs to a good standard, look at buying a dedicated CD player, reasonable amplifier and speakers. In terms of building the system, there are different ways of doing this. Some consider the source (CD player) to be the most important item in the chain, some say speakers and some say the system needs to be balanced (I favour this, but with a leaning toward the source). In my view, the speakers-first brigarde are plain wrong. There's no way to fix a signal once it's been 'broken' by the CD player and amp. Therefore, in terms of how to break the budget, either look at splitting it three ways or favour the source a bit. Your chances of a musical result are better this way. That said, there's one other element here I haven't mentioned which many beginners scoff at which is cabling. Typically at this level of system, reserve about 10% - 15% for cables. Look at spending that money on a decent interconnect between CD player and amplifier, and speaker cables. After all, if you have the finest CD player in the world feeding a piece of string, the finest signal in the world will not arrive at the amplifier!  That's a bit about building systems. $2000 should be enopugh to get a really enjoyable, involving system. I'm in the UK so my knowledge on pricing is flimsy at best. Over here, a system that would give more pleasure for that sort of money would be an NAD C542 CD player into a Rega Brio amplifier (or 2nd best into an NAD C352) into a pair of B&W DM600 bookshelf speakers with a Chord Silver Siren interconnect and some Chord Carnival Silver Plus speaker cable. That would be pretty much bang on your target of $2000 and it's a typical dealer-type system based on experience and mixing/matching of different components. If we broke the budget a bit ($150 or so) I'd replace the speakers with Focal 705V since the DM600, although still a good speaker, is somewhat long in the tooth and the Focal is brilliant value for money at the moment. If you find a dealer willing to spend a bit of time with you, you may spend a bit more cash, but you'll learn a lot more. Try to find a dealer with demonstration facilities, meaning a dedicated demo room, be up front about your budget and see what s/he recommends. Have a demo of what's suggested and try to hear more than one combination. Although this can confuse, it teaches you a lot about the different flavours of music-making available from HiFi. there are many brands about, and each one has its distinctive 'voice', simply because different designers make different choices when they design things - and that's based on their experiences and what they want from the unit. The question is which one you like after that! Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4030 Registered: Feb-05 | Paragraph 2 a DVD player is mentioned. I figured she wrote that because she meant it. I'm not into psychoanalyzing whether it was a freudian slip. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4032 Registered: Feb-05 | "if I mainly want music (classical and soft rock) and want to spend around $2,000, what would you choose for a receiver? A dvd player? Speakers?" That's why my recommendations always included a DVD player. She states "mainly" for music and "dvd player". Other than that I whole heartedly agree that a dedicated cd player is going to sound better with redbook playback than a dvd player or universal. However the Cambridge 540D has been reviewed to be very close to the performance of the NAD C542 cd player (I'm not sure I buy it, however I have heard very good first hand reports). The Usher speakers were chosen due to space constraints and their design match her request. They also have synergy with the electronics mentioned. But as I said we can't do the listening for her. Indeed cables make a big difference but at this level one doesn't have to spend a fortune to have very musical results. Blue Jeans cable for audio and BetterCables for video provide very good performance to dollars spent results. That's what I was thinkin'. |
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New member Username: ChapsSan Francisco, CA USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Feb-07 | Frank and Art, thank you so much for the advice. I did go to a dealer and sp;ent some time listening. He seems to think the Rotel pre/amp and DVD player are a bit better than the Marantz 4201 and 4001 and around $150 more each. Since I don't need the Am/FM, the Rotel with 65w/channel seems even cleaner than the 100w/channel Marantz. I actually did listen to the B&W 600 speakers which were quite nice and well priced -though I must admit they are ugly. (sorry but the aesthetics do matter since it will be very visible from most parts of the apartment including the entry). I asked and asked about the Usher speakers but noone near SF has them--would mean a drive to Santa Rosa and then hard to compare. We were then looking at Definitive Technology Mythos Gem Sattellite ($500 pr) or Mythos Six on shelf ($700 pr) which are at least sleek and thin( though I must admit the B&W at $400pr were slightly nicer sounding). I almost sound like I know what I'm talking about. If you have any thoughts about the speakers and even the choice of amp/receiver and DVD, I'd appreciate it. By the way, the CD is definitely my first concern but I would like a DVD capacity to play some films. You guys are really knowledgeable and a lot of help--thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4035 Registered: Feb-05 | B&W will indeed sound better than the Def Tech's. I love the Rotel integrated. I wonder do you have the opportunity to hear NAD in your area? NAD's C325BEE integrated amp sounds very close to the Rotel in fact some folks think even better and costs $300 less. Combined with either their C525BEE CD player or T524 DVD player you would have a wonderful system without spending a fortune. Here are some NAD dealers in your area. http://nadelectronics.com/dealers/usa Another speaker I like is the Rega R3 it's very easy to drive, has a small footprint and is finished with real wood. Frank does not like these speakers but I own the R5's and have been amazed with their neutrality and musicality. They would likely go well with the NAD gear. http://www.rega.co.uk/index2.htm |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5854 Registered: Dec-04 | Charlotte, if its the occasional movie you could get el cheapo dvd player, and invest in a good quality source for your music. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1927 Registered: Sep-04 | Charlotte, I'm with Nuck on this. I'm glad you spent some time listening. You also got some advice oif what the dealer thinks, so now the question is whether you agree. If you don't that's fine. Try to figure whatit is you disagree with to help you build a vocabulary that you can use to describe what you want and like. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4045 Registered: Feb-05 | Though we agree and understand that a dedicated CD plyer will sound better than a DVD player or universal some folks for a variety of reasons (aesthetics, space, etc) prefer a one box solution. There are a number of one box solutions that can provide musically satisfying results for a majority of folks. |
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New member Username: ChapsSan Francisco, CA USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Feb-07 | I am indebted to you guys for all the advice --and it really helped me to ask the right questions of the dealers. I did find a couple of dealers who spent some time with me and let me hear various equipment in the dedicated room. Problem of course is that they each have different and non overlapping equipment. The one I liked the most, who was most informative even when it didn't mean his equipment was a non commission sales person in San Rafael. I was up there three times and he was always pleasant, helpful and patient. Anyway, I've decided on the Rotel integrated (don't need the AM/FM)$695 and the Rotel CD/DVD player $495. Listened to speakers over and over (gave up on the Ushers since noone nearby had them) and thought the B&W 600 series 3 were good value (remember I need bookcase size), decided against the D-Technology mythos, rather liked the B&W CM series and also the new XT. Price getting higher though since the 600 series 3 were $350/pr, the CM $900/pr and the XT $1100 pair. Decided I could hear the difference between CM and basic ones though $550 more. You'll love this but only question is if they make it in black as I don't want new wood colors in that highly decorated/painted room. If not, that dealer had some nice Dahli speakers $900/pr or back to deciding between basic 600 series 3 or the XT (latter is good looking but I don't hear the warmth of the CM series). So any last minute thoughts about speakers? Or the cables needed for this level of system? You have all been really great in helping me --a toast to you. |
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Silver Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 142 Registered: Mar-06 | Get the 600's in black. As far as speakerwire- I really like the "anti-cable" speaker cables available at anticables.com - I just bought and think they sound great for the money. $60.00 shipped. I would put them up against any cables I have heard under 700.00 (yes, they make cables that cost that and beyond) The Rotel stuff is good- you did I good job at choosing. Enjoy the system - it will sound amazing :-) Promise. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5935 Registered: Dec-04 | Charlotte, you have chosen with a good deal of listening and research. Some people do not do this much, and look for answers later. I like your selections, the speaker could add accent to the bookcase/shelf. Mrs. Nuck says that I have no taste, however. BlueJeans make cables and such for a reasonable price. To go beyond, IMHO does not reward the outlay. If you get to try some others for free, that would be fun. Well done! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1933 Registered: Sep-04 | Charlotte, In my opinion, the CMs are very coloured and not very good. I prefer both the XT1 and the DM600 for sheer musical pleasure. The CMs are very nicely made etc., but they just aren't my bag... So I'd go for the DM600s or the XT1s. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: ChapsSan Francisco, CA USA Post Number: 6 Registered: Feb-07 | Thank you all. Just heard today that the CMs are not in black so now it's between B&W 600series 3 ($350/pr),the B&W XT(the black/silver $1100/pr) or the Dahli ($900 pr). Any votes? (Remember: I've now reserved the Rotel integrated and CD/DVD) C |
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Silver Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 145 Registered: Mar-06 | Charlotte, You gotta love all the help !! I know what you mean about the CM- they look awesome, but their sound is not up to snuff in my opinion. Get the 600's and be done. They will sound great. Also get the anti-cable speaker cables from anticable.com It really does sound amazing and its not expensive. My girlfriend and one that is typically not very interested in what new fangled gear I have bought commented on how great the system sounded once I installed. She had no idea that I switched out the cables - but said that the music sounded "live and in room" I just smiled and knew that if she noticed how great things sounded that I made the a good choice. Check them out. |
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Silver Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 146 Registered: Mar-06 | Charlotte, You gotta love all the help !! I know what you mean about the CM- they look awesome, but their sound is not up to snuff in my opinion. Get the 600's and be done. They will sound great. Also get the anti-cable speaker cables from anticable.com They really do sound amazing and are not expensive. My girlfriend and one that is typically not very interested in what new fangled gear I have bought commented on how great the system sounded once I installed. She had no idea that I switched out the cables - but said that the music sounded "live and in the room" I just smiled and knew that if she noticed how great things sounded that I made the a good choice. Check them out. Feel free to call me anytime 614-378-6485 if you need any advice. The people that frequent this board (basically the people that have responded to your questions) are all pretty knowledgeable. Sound and hi-fi are hobbies to us and we enjoy helping out when we can. You're in good hands  |
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Gold Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 1184 Registered: Dec-03 | 007: I went looking for your link to anticable.com, but couldn't get it to work. Do you have a more complete address? |
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Silver Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 148 Registered: Mar-06 | Hawk! I got the cables last month after reading the glowing review in TAS. They sound awesome- and for the money they are a no-brainer. Here's the link- I forgot the "s" before. www.anticables.com |
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Gold Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 1191 Registered: Dec-03 | Interesting looking cables . . . |
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Silver Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 150 Registered: Mar-06 | Wait till you hear 'em :-) Try a set- if they don't work out - send them back. You wont send them back, however. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 1194 Registered: Dec-03 | I am pretty happy with my current cables at this time--Ethereal brand cables found here: https://www.digitalconnection.com/store/Product_List.asp?CID=3&CAT=SPEAKER%20CAB LE But I am always on the lookout for something new and better. I have bookmarked the page for future reference. |
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