I did it again!
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3887 Registered: Feb-05 | Yep I did it again! Went to Magnolia and chose between the ML Grotto and a REL T1......and the winner is the REL T1. Anyone else heard this faublous sub and have any impressions? It's pure REL...not at the same level as their best but certainly better than the Q150 that I had home. The T3 will make the Dynamo a tough choice at $599. The Dynamo is a more musical sub than I have ever heard in it's price bracket, but I'll bet the T3 has it beat, though I don't know as the Clackamas Magnolia has chosen not to carry it. The Dynamo has the added fexibility of being ablt to used either in a downfiring position or front firing. The T1's build quality is fantastic and the web site does not do it's looks justice. I bought black but the cherry laminate is the finest looking laminate I've ever seen. More later! |
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Gold Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs... Post Number: 1064 Registered: Dec-06 | Doggone it you did it again! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3888 Registered: Feb-05 | I did Andre and I didn't even blow up my Dynamo to get there. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5715 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, you gotta be the most audio-hump that I be seeing. Damn, but you got a good dealer thing going on! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3896 Registered: Feb-05 | If first impressions are important then let it be said that this sub leaves no doubt as to it's quality. The REL T series subs are likely to become budget legends. The T1 outperforms my old Era in every meaningful way. The build quality is beyond belief in this price range. So far I'm very, very impressed! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5730 Registered: Dec-04 | Now here is something different, a sub with an AB amp, as opposed to D or Bash. Very very nice, Art! Where are you crossing it over, and how smooth is the roll in? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3897 Registered: Feb-05 | I have it crossed over at about 53hz and it is smooth as glass. Speed and articulation that just blows away other subs. I've owned a whole bunch of subs in my day and this one is head and shoulders above the rest. The other REL's (R and B series) must really be something. Subs that I've owned, partial list: Paradigm PDR8 Paradigm PDR10 Paradigm PDR12 (two different generations) Paradigm PS1000 Paradigm PW2100 Paradigm PW2200 B&W ASW750 Era Acoustics Sub 10 NHT (forget the model) Hsu VTF2 mk 2 SVS ISD ($700 box sub don't remember the actual model) Martin Logan Dynamo REL Acoustics T1 There are more but I can't remember them now. Obviously I had a freind who was a Paradigm dealer. The PDR8 was in a bedroom system. The PW2200 was a monster for HT but not so good for music. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5748 Registered: Dec-04 | You're a lunatic! And a great reference. Thanks, Art. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3909 Registered: Feb-05 | Dropped the Xover to about 42 hz....even better. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5760 Registered: Dec-04 | Is the run-in steady, have you goosed it a bit? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3910 Registered: Feb-05 | The run in is steady which means turning it down from time to time. I forgot my brief affair with the REL Q150 on my list, oh my! |
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Bronze Member Username: MrtomasuloPost Number: 80 Registered: Mar-05 | Art, why did going two channel require parting with the Era? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3911 Registered: Feb-05 | It didn't I just thought it did...I needed the cash inevitably to pay for my downgrade. It was an excellent and very musical sub. Not to mention beautiful to look at. Much more info on the REL to come. |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 370 Registered: Nov-05 | you mean "OOPS!" |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 371 Registered: Nov-05 | Sorry, Art, could'nt resist. So whens the next swap out? |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 372 Registered: Nov-05 | Btw, that's a pretty low Xover setting, your mains must "get down" as well! Sounds like your room is fairly void of nodes also, as you get decent results with the different settings. My setup gets serious "mood swings" when I'm off just a hair! Glad to see it's a bit easier for some! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3917 Registered: Feb-05 | LOL!....pretty much oops... |
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Bronze Member Username: MrtomasuloPost Number: 81 Registered: Mar-05 | I'm very intesreted in your impressions, Art. I have a new 2-channel stereo system myself and have consdiered adding a subwoofer. I looked up the specs of the REL T3 and its relative small size would be perfect for me. A question for me I have though is whether a $600 sub would be overkill for my system -- two Boston VR2s and a HK 3480 receiver. I mean, I think it's a great system but I paid $740 shipped combined for it all off ebay and am wondering if I'd be better off adding that $600 to better speakers than adding a sub. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3925 Registered: Feb-05 | I will respond after work when I can add a little more. Keep in mind that mine is still breaking in. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3928 Registered: Feb-05 | So here's the deal...per my sources...the REL T series subs were designed to be a HT solution that stays true to the REL tradition of musicality. This design is with special attention to the US market. So far my observations bear that out. It sounds just a bit plumper than any REL that I've heard but still has that family sound. Keep in mind that this all just by a fine margin. Obviously if you can afford the R or B series and music is your first priority then by all means. I find that the minor compromises that this woofer makes for HT is acceptable especially considering the price. I heard this sub in a large showroom at Magnolia in a HT application and was very impressed. I then demoed it for music. Much more difficult to do as there ain't nothin' about that showroom that even reminded me of home. It was still an impressive demo but I knew that the proof was not be until it was home. I don't do any listening during the work week as I don't have time so these are just preliminary impressions but suffice it to say that I believe that this a very good all around sub. I'm looking forward to the reviews in the hifi or video rags. It is a different sounding sub than any I've ever heard. Try to imagine the sound of a classic ST series REL like the Strata with just a hint of the plumpness of a Def Tech Super Cube and you have this sub. The enhanced soundstage and imaging offered by the REL with the slam and bounce of the Def Tech. Very interesting indeed. |
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Bronze Member Username: BytesizBangor, Maine USA Post Number: 28 Registered: Jan-06 | Art, can you describe the REL family sound for me? I've never heard an REL sub before. I'm in the market (still) for a sub, and your enthusiasm for these REL T series subs has me intrigued. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3942 Registered: Feb-05 | REL sub bass systems are famous for producing bass that underpins the bass that already exists with your speakers rather increasing the dynamic output. The T series REL is less perfect at that than the other more expensive REL subs...but is still better than any other in this price range. The other wonderful thing with these REL's is that you can connect it for music and .1 LFE simultaneously and have them set differently so that both functions work simultaneously and independently. |
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Bronze Member Username: BytesizBangor, Maine USA Post Number: 30 Registered: Jan-06 | Thanks Art. I'm looking for a sub that can fill the void below 80Hz as I plan to use an active high pass filter for my book shelf speakers. Does this application lend itself to an REL sub in your opinion? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3945 Registered: Feb-05 | Very much so. http://www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/index.htm |
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Bronze Member Username: BytesizBangor, Maine USA Post Number: 31 Registered: Jan-06 | Thanks again. I need to find one to listen to now. I emailed Sumiko a couple of days ago for a dealer in my area... no repsonse yet. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3946 Registered: Feb-05 | Perhaps you should call them...their customer service is very responsive. It would just take a minute. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5930 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, how is your Era running in? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4095 Registered: Feb-05 | You mean REL I think...more on that in a couple of days. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4101 Registered: Feb-05 | The subwoofer saga continues as I am about to "do it again". Later..... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4102 Registered: Feb-05 | On the way back to Portland to swap the REL T1 for a REL R205. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4105 Registered: Feb-05 | Ahh that's more like it! |
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Silver Member Username: MrtomasuloPost Number: 102 Registered: Mar-05 | Hey Art, I'm following this thread closely. Keep us informed. While I'm here I have an unrelated interconnect question for you -- in your opinion do you think a Chord Chrysalis or a Cobra 3 would be a noticeable step-up from a Blue Jeans cable to be used in my soon-to-arrive Mira/Apollo rig? Or do you think it'd be negligble? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4107 Registered: Feb-05 | The Chrysalis is a bit truncated on both ends of the frequency spectrum. The Cobra is a very good and warm interconnect. I really like the Silver Siren as a killer value (especially for the XM connection). For the Mira/Apollo connect I really don't think I would go with anything less than the Silver Siren and if you can swing it the Chameleon Silver is really where the rubber meets the road. The CD Mira/Apollo connection is going to be your most critical don't skimp with it. If you are following my sub debacle. I have to admit that I have egg and various other messy breakfast foods on my face as the T series REL's aren't as good as I initially thought. The Era was still a bit more musical. The T series is a versatile high performance sub especially the 3 at $598 just not musical enough for me. I have the R205 at home now (the entry level music sub for REL) and it is very, very musical. I'm not going to comment further until I break it in and do some critical listening. My Mother-in-law (wonderful woman) was just admitted to the hospital and I'm going to be headed out as soon as my wife is ready so probably no critical listening today. |
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Bronze Member Username: BytesizBangor, Maine USA Post Number: 32 Registered: Jan-06 | I think I'll still give a listen to a T3 sometime soon... the closest dealer is about 4 hours away, so next time I'm in that headed in the direction, I'll plan to listen to one. In the mean time, I've picked up a Martin Logan Dynamo for a good price on Audiogon. That should curb my sub appetite for a little while I hope. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4108 Registered: Feb-05 | The Dynamo is a very good sub. I have one that I'll be selling soon on Audiogon. |
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Bronze Member Username: BytesizBangor, Maine USA Post Number: 33 Registered: Jan-06 | Hmmm.. if one Dynamo is a very good sub... a pair must be better right? Is it black or silver? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4111 Registered: Feb-05 | It's black....about a month old and lightly used. |
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Silver Member Username: MrtomasuloPost Number: 103 Registered: Mar-05 | Art -- What kind of speaker cable terminations do you use to connect to your Mira (banana, spade, bare wire, etc.?) I just received mine and from my short listening session at lunch already think I love it. I'm just using bare wire connections right now and it was very hard to crimp the wire small enough to fit in the Mira's little holes. TIA. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4125 Registered: Feb-05 | At work will give some details when I get home this evening. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5978 Registered: Dec-04 | What gauge wire MT? It needen't be large. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4126 Registered: Feb-05 | MT my speaker wire is terminated with pins (like bananas but smaller). They work wonderfully and give me room for the connections to the sub (neutrik speakon). Bare wire really is the best if you can do it. I use pins mostly for convenience. Hey Nuck thought you'd give me a hard time about the new sub..... |
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Silver Member Username: MrtomasuloPost Number: 104 Registered: Mar-05 | Well if bare wire is best than I guess I can just stick with it - I got it to fit, but just barely. I was thinking if I wanted terminations I'd have to use spades cause I wasn't sure bananas could even fit. The wire in there now is just 14 gauge Home Depot wire. I'm happy with it for now because this thing sounds incredible -- if I had to describe it I'd say a great deal more 'presence' and 'emotion' than my HK. It actually also sounds less harsh I guess cause it's not as strained. Anyway, sorry for the hijack. :P |
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Silver Member Username: MrtomasuloPost Number: 105 Registered: Mar-05 | and thanks! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4133 Registered: Feb-05 | Happy listening MT! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5983 Registered: Dec-04 | MT, pins or spades are useful if you plan on changing out subs quite often. Art hates getting poked while twisting wire. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4138 Registered: Feb-05 | I knew it was coming.... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5998 Registered: Dec-04 | My hopes for everything good at the Art house. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4151 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4272 Registered: Feb-05 | Well I didn't exactly do it again but....I decided to hook up the ML Dynamo (haven't sold it yet) at the same time as my REL and it seems to be a nice addition. Any advice to maximize a pair of subs as different as these to are to each other would be appreciated. This is an older pic of my system (broke the camera and haven't bought a new one yet...soon). http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1165794632.jpg In the picture that is the ML Dynamo which has been replaced in that spot by the REL. http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1165793968.jpg I put the Dynamo in the open spot to the left of the left speaker. They are both sealed subs with the Dynamo being down firing and the REL front firing. The REL is connected using the Neutrik Speakon connector and the Dynamo to the pre outs on the amp. Any suggestions to help maximize this will be appreciated. Keep in mind that placement (other than a few inches here and there) can't change. Unless I find that I can't live without it the Dynamo is still being sold but I must admit that my first impressions using both subs is quite good. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Wiley, Tx USA Post Number: 300 Registered: May-06 | Art, My set up is similar to yours in that I have my Klipsch sub (which came part and parcel with my in wall Klipsch system when I bought the house and is not part of my 2 channel set up in any way but photographs) near the right front corner of my room. My second sub, a Paradigm 1000 sits behind the couch just left of my "sitting position". I had to detune the Paradigm but it fills the room nicely. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 4275 Registered: Feb-05 | Well just that quickly I sold the Dynamo tonight just minutes after posting it on Audiogon. Considering how long it's taking some folks to sell them I wasn't sure if I would sell it at all. Thanks Mike for your response it's much appreciated. |
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