Low efficiency speakers
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5212 Registered: Dec-04 | I will soon have another Classe ca200 amp and will mono bridge them. Each amp is rated at 1200wpc mono @4 ohms. Regardless of the actual power, it is a lot. Can we name a speaker which would really benefit from this level of power? I mean to fully extrapolate the speaker's abilities and make you go 'WOW'? And do it for under 5k. The thread title is an indication of what I might expect, but I dunno. |
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Gold Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 1028 Registered: Dec-03 | Uhh, Nuck, did you also buy your own power plant? Oh, well, at least in winter you won't need central heat . . . Seriously, though, congrats--Classe makes wonderful amps. I do know one speaker that will make you go WOW! with that kind of power: Magnepan 3.6s. MSRP of $3750/pr. Killer sound--absolutely killer Second choice--Ohm Walsh 300-S3s. $3500/pr. Again, another low efficiency speaker, but the Walsh drivers is so amazing with enough power. Order factory direct with a 120 day listening tryout: http://www.ohmspeakers.com/styles_walsh.cfm |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5217 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks Hawk. I somehow knew that the power factor would bring Maggies into the picture! They seem to present a steady 4ohm load no matter what, and one reviewer said that the Bryston 7sst brought them to life. I will one up those amps. Thanks, Hawk. Any more? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5218 Registered: Dec-04 | In fact, I wonder if the Maggies need a sub or two? Likely, for an over the top kit. REL or M&K? One per side, of course. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9626 Registered: May-04 | . Big Thiels. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3790 Registered: Feb-05 | Well boy howdy....those amps should power anything you want to power. 3.6's and REL or Vandersteen subs...ya that's nice, not sure if it works for your music preference. Go forth and find any speaker you like and drive them to distraction...go on now... BTW I really like Aerial Acoustics and Vandersteen speakers, not sure the latter would get loud enough for you. The Quattro is above your stated budget but comes with the subs built in. I would check the used market for the best bang for the buck. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1035 Registered: Nov-05 | A couple of banks of Marshal speakers! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5220 Registered: Dec-04 | I can see Rantz bending the neck of a strat in front of a Marshal stack even now... Seriously folks, the volume is only a part of the proper presentation. Harry Chapin, some Chopin and Van Halen. And movies, lower volume. Think 'The English Patient'. Oh and 'The Rock'. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3791 Registered: Feb-05 | "the volume is only a part of the proper presentation" I know that, just ain't sure that you do. |
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Gold Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 1036 Registered: Nov-05 | "I can see Rantz bending the neck of a strat in front of a Marshal stack even now..." While I have a cheap Chinese made version of the above, I see myself more with a Gibson - love that sweet sound. In my dreams - one day I may learn to play - instead of just playing. As for speakers, those amps have plenty of clean power in reserve to drive almost any fastidious speaker - B&W's come to mind as they perform well under those circumstances, but then so do many others. It's a crap shoot Nuck, one you'll need to sort through with your 5K budget to suit your ears. The Spendor 9Se is nice also. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5222 Registered: Dec-04 | If the Dyn's weren't so ugly... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5223 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, that seems kinda harsh. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5228 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, how do you think the Paradigm 20's or the ProAc 110's, 140's or the 220's would respond to an unlimited amount of Classe power, dead flat response? I can't see a problem with unlimited power. Unless I get corrupted. Nawww. |
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Silver Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs... Post Number: 719 Registered: Dec-06 | Oh, that's so funny! Nuck Nuck Nuck Nuck Nuck Nuck! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5234 Registered: Dec-04 | http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?spkrplan&1170038767 |
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Silver Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., SouthWest Mi... Too Many DBs... Post Number: 726 Registered: Dec-06 | Ooh I like those. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9632 Registered: May-04 | . http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?hid=1&id=20&cat=Louds peaker+Systems&prodid=1042&product=XRT28 Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate! . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5235 Registered: Dec-04 | This one will take a while, JV. Remember my last post, looking for a kickass kit, it took almost 5 months to get er done. This one will get done, with caution, perseverence and a lot of shopping. Thanks for the post, I will shop! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5236 Registered: Dec-04 | How the hell do I negotiate with these monsters?! I can deal with the best of 'em, but Oy! 802's come into play as well. |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 289 Registered: Nov-05 | Nuck, you know of my recent additions, give yourself a treat and put Aerials on your list, you wont be disappointed. Another to consider IMO if you wont/cant up the budget a hair would be the paradigm S8s, but then againg the paradigm S8s were the ones that I couldnt justify moving out of the NHT 2.9s, so you may feel the same way. I think you are on the right track w/ Dynaudio as well, I listened to some of their line, and it is also a fine speaker. I will get the model numbers that I auditioned as I cant recall off the top of my head, but out of all that I did audition, the Dynaudio line could've won had I not had the chance to hear the Aerials. I did have one question though, are you a fan of forward, bright, laid back or nuetral. Im guessing nuetral, but could be wrong. Its the choice of amp that gives me that impression. Have fun, as I'm sure you will! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5239 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, David. I can't call the presentation at this point. I have to think that 'natural' would match best. Bearing in mind my high tone hearing loss, and loving 'SRV', John Mellencamp, Chopin, the LSO, and Lyle Lovett, and Bonnie Raitt, I expect perfection for my 5 large. And the ability to absolutely BLAST Queen's Tenement Funster. |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 290 Registered: Nov-05 | You plan on buying new, or used, or whatever the best deal presents itself? New Aerial 7Bs are gonnal take your whole wad, but they will give you some range for sure. Dynaudio focus 220 will do the same, but I think the 7Bs are a bit "better", more like your "natural" preference, (I'll take that as nuetral, I think they may in fact be one in the same) My main reason for Aerial was the neverending layers of sound they create, I've found stuff in recordings I honest to GOD did not know existed, and now I find myself going back through stuff I had long forgot about! The Dynaudio's were very nuetral, or "natural", but didnt give the same presentation of layer after layer like the Aerials, you will also notice when you get out to demo that with the power you are giving them, the Aerials will gladly eat up and ask for more, whereas the Dynaudios do have their limits, at least what I encountered. The Dynaudio's I demod were powered w/classe as well ( remember I almost went that route as well) And either the classe, or Dynaudio struggled a bit in the most dynamic passages at higher volumes, whereas the Aerials never even batted an eye. Another option would be used LR5s, if you could get your hand on those bad boys used, you've essentially conquered the world, AND monopolized all the power at the same time! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5240 Registered: Dec-04 | David, thank you for your contribution. Wheater the Classe or the Dyn's pooped out first is a hard call from here. I have zero experience with the Aerial's. I need to find a local dealer. I actually prefer used, for the $value, and the 'run-in' that usually accompanies these speakers. I am not afraid of abused units, anything poorly treated will be readily apparant. I will chase down some Aerials. Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: DavidpaPortland, Oregon US Post Number: 292 Registered: Nov-05 | the bug has bitten |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5245 Registered: Dec-04 | Quick, Henry, get the FLIT! I also happened across these, but don't find a lot of info on them. http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/47102-ruark_accolade__top_of_the_line_spe aker_very_rare__superb_with_naim_exposure_densen_cyrus_creek__/ |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1828 Registered: Sep-04 | Nuck, 1. If the Dynaudios weren't so ugly, you still couldn't afford them...  2. Dynaudio's speaker in your price bracket would be the slimmer, neater looking Confidence C2 model, possibly... 3. Alternative Dynaudio offering would be the Special 25. All Dynaudios are single wired so biamping is not an option. You'd have to bridge... My choice of speaker for this application (400w/ch) would be Totem's Mani-2 Signature which is what I use at home to great effect. Again, a large standmount, the Totem stands should be considered as de rigeur. Very inefficient, isobaric design, with tremendous bass and well integrated treble. i love 'em, but you knew that. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5253 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Frank. My dealer has the evidence as well. I honest to goodness dropped one decimal place when I read that ad. You are correct in assessing my ability to complete that purchase. D'oh! I blame it on a beer moment. Dealer also has the 25 speaker, or did 2 mos ago. That one may be a great value holder, as well. At the rate I am going, that may matter. Bad Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1836 Registered: Sep-04 | Nuck, My experience with the Special 25 is that it is quite room-dependant. I've heard it sound fabulous and I've heard it sound mechanical and boring. It's partly a question of setup of course, but when they work, they're truly remarkable. And don't forget those Mani-2s... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1559 Registered: May-05 | Nucko, Quad ESL 57 There's a guy on audiogon who refurbs and sells reburbed Quads. Maybe worth looking into. I haven't heard them, but many people consider them the best speakers ever made. You've obviously got the funds and power. What are you waiting for? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5256 Registered: Dec-04 | Stu, John A. is likely pumping his fist right now. Thanks for that link/info. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1848 Registered: Sep-04 | ELS57s are not designed to take huge gobs of power. When they were designed, 40w was considered loads. Your single CA200 would be more than enough to drive them, and would get round multi-amp problems such as combing issues courtesy of the different routes the signal takes to get to you. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5335 Registered: Dec-04 | Yet another lesson learned, Frank. How about the ESL's with 12w of tubes in a closer listening space? Like Jimmy Dorsey or Pink Floyd? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1851 Registered: Sep-04 | ESLs or ELSs? The 57s were the ELS. The 63s were the ESLs. The 63s were designed with more power in mind (100wpc). The ELSs were designed with the much earlier amps in mind, if not quite 12wpc. A classic combination was the Quad 22 which was about 22wpc, strangely enough... regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1562 Registered: May-05 | ESL or ELS? Google search turns up an equal number of both ESL 57 and ELS 57. Their seem to be just as many credible sources calling them the ESL 57 as their are calling them ELS 57. Maybe Quad should make a statement. Their website doesn't mention either one anywhere. Very interesting... |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1563 Registered: May-05 | Sorry, substitue "their" with "there." |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5439 Registered: Dec-04 | I repeated your steps, Stu. Odd on their website. Frank, backing up, can you explain or link me to 'combing'? I am unfamiliar with it. At the rate I am going, within 2 years, this may be the only comb that concerns me, LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1858 Registered: Sep-04 | Stu, Trust me, the 57s were ELSs. The 63s were ESLs. I was being pedantic. Combing is more usual with speakers. If a speaker has two drive units being used for the same frequencies, their outputs can 'comb' and produce additive or destructive distortions (depending on the nature of the comb). This can also occur with biamping. It's particularly the case if different cables and cable lengths are used. It's not as obvious as with the speaker scenario because more often than not one amp is used for treble and the other bass/midrange so the frequencies don't overlap. However, you can still get combing because there is always some overlap and when you add differences in cable lengths (e.g. treble cable lengths are 3 m and basss/midrange lengths are 4m), you run into this problem where the frequencies are either out of phase or comb in at the crossover points of the speaker (Naim used to get around this problem by using one stereo amp per speaker in their active systems). I haven't used a comb in years Nuck! It's great, although wintertime makes a hat a requirement... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 5535 Registered: Dec-04 | Thank you Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1570 Registered: May-05 | Never doubted you for a second Frank. It was one of those Abbott & Costello moments. "Who's on first?" |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1860 Registered: Sep-04 | Aha! Abbott & Costello. I hate to say this but my only exposure to them and that famous sketch is via Rain Man. We didn't have A&C where I grew up. In fact, we only had one TV station when I was a boy and that came on at 6pm and switched off at 11pm. Ah woe is me! So much missed. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1876 Registered: Sep-04 | Y'know, sometimes I come up with some real crap. The ESL/ELS thing was bugging me so I've been doing some research and nowhere can I find a reference to them as ELS. Perhaps I was wrong. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3836 Registered: Feb-05 | Yeah and I'm enjoying Charles Lloyd through my cardboard as I type... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1877 Registered: Sep-04 | Must mean something to you...not me... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3837 Registered: Feb-05 | "I am not a fan of the Rega loudspeakers. To me they sound like so much cardboard." It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to your statement on another thread relative to the Rega speakers. No harm, just fun. |
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