A bit Expensive???
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Bronze Member Username: Arande2Post Number: 98 Registered: Dec-06 | I was just wondering what the performance difference would be between a Krell MRA and like a Yamaha Flagship RX-9 that makes the price so extreme in difference. One common manufacturer and one that's like TOP end. In anyone has anything to say if they've heard the MRA or just wonder how it is. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9465 Registered: May-04 | . https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/299327.html |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 251 Registered: Apr-06 | Jan: How about something along the lines of a good Parasound versus a top end Krell? Assuming both are being used to drive speakers that are easy loads for the amplifiers, what are the benefits of more expensive models beyond the name? I've heard some say a more expensive model will have more detail & delicacy. Why/how? Note: I assume that Parasound will stand behind their product as well as Krell does, removing the service part of the equation. Certainly it won't justify that price gap in any event. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9467 Registered: May-04 | . Dollars should be spent when and where the buyer feels they contribute a significant improvement. I'm not the advertsing department for Krell so I don't think I can answer your question. But I would never advise anyone to spend money if they don't hear or perceive an improvement in some area. Diminishing returns are a big part of audio in my opinion and everone sets their own point where the returns aren't large enough to warrant the outlay for their needs and habits. . |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 253 Registered: Apr-06 | So I guess my next question is: would there be a technical reason why one amplifier would subjectively outperform another amplifier if they are both driving electrical loads that are well within their capacity to manage, and they both have flat frequency responses w/ minimal distortion? Or is this where the joy of audio kicks in? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4868 Registered: Dec-04 | The choices of audio. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9468 Registered: May-04 | . I'm not sure what you mean when you say "outperform". If you are merely referring to the most basic measurements of T.H.D and power, then there isn't much reason for most high quality, modern amps to vary widely under the conditions you describe. However, any other aspect of a component's performance could vary drastically even under such unstressed conditions. Looking at a simple measurement such as rise time or slew rate would indicate not all amplifiers are identical. The further you look, the more differences rather than similarities you will find. The technical reason for these differences would be based upon the subjective reasons they might sound "different" than each other. Each designer has the same complex of preferences you will find in every audiophile with a developed sense for a reference. The goal is to match that reference with the reproduced sound quality. One designer might prefer Shostakovich while another might find Muddy Waters useful as a reference. One listener might prefer to sit in the first row at a performance while another might like the sound of row eight seats. One hears music in a small hall in Dallas while the other hears music in a great space in Milan. There could be a preference for PRaT in one design and a desire to get depth of soundstage correct in another. You put them all together and you end up with a (p)reference that must be satisfied. One thing that is certain, designers don't fly blind as many audiophiles do. Designers are more likely to love live music and to hear quite a bit of it in order to establish a reference. Unless you assume all passive components sound alike, i.e., one cap sounds like all other caps, you can see how a designer will try to pick the correct parts to emulate the sound that is being used as a reference. Change a component here and listen. Try another combination of parts here and listen. Try a different approach to the circuit and listen. All of this is done until the designer feels the reference has been approached, if not met. Then the budget intrudes. Then service, then lay out, then parts procurement and then marketing. And so on. In the final product I think you can see why components sound unlike one another. What I have always found impressive is a line of components where you can hear the designer's intent in every product. A McIntosh amplifier sounds pretty much like any other McIntosh amplifier and a Harbeth speaker is recognizable as a Harbeth speaker. Designing an entire line of components at various price ranges that just step you up in the degree of quality is not an easy thing to achieve. . |
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Silver Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU... Post Number: 105 Registered: Dec-06 | Ah yes, it makes a good deal of sense now. I'll just have to go listen for myself as always. I don't know if that'll ever change. At least I know what products to listen to. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1991 Registered: Feb-04 | There are many who don't believe fancy amplifiers make all that much difference. The consensus you will get varies greatly from forum to forum. As for me, I think that if the amplifier is up to the load then the amplifier won't make that much difference. Such talk gets me crucified on most audiophile forums, but not so much on technical forums. Some speakers are easy to drive (nice easy resistive and nearly constant load, around 8 ohms, as a function of frequency). Some speakers have phase and load swings all over the frequency spectrum, with dips to 2 ohms. Apples and oranges. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4938 Registered: Dec-04 | I wanna think that the amp should be invisible, but then again, I like my amps to be present and accounted for. The amp is one piece of the system, fom source to speakers. It all matters. It's like a cradle to grave thing.Synergy. Anybody writing this shite down?! |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 256 Registered: Apr-06 | While I tend to believe that if the amp is sufficient to easily drive the speakers it shouldn't make a difference, I am still going to audition one or two just to make sure it won't make some huge difference for me. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1993 Registered: Feb-04 | Good stuff! |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1552 Registered: May-05 | "While I tend to believe that if the amp is sufficient to easily drive the speakers it shouldn't make a difference, I am still going to audition one or two just to make sure it won't make some huge difference for me." Two amp manufacturers that make stuff that'll drive just about anything easily - McIntosh and Naim. Both are polar opposites of each other in terms of sound produced, yet equally phenominal in presentation and musicallity. McIntosh has a very smooth, refined, laid-back, almost slow and melodic presentation. Music seems to flow like a fine wine. Naim is a forward, aggressive, and very pacey presentation. Music seems to come out at you with an intense energy. On a more affordable scale, but not as good as the previous two - Marantz vs Rotel. IMO, these prove very easily that all amplifiers within their limits sure don't sound the same. If they do, something is seriously out of wack in the system/room/etc. |
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Silver Member Username: Daniel_canadaCanada Post Number: 243 Registered: May-06 | It's all relative. An amp with a $99 CD player as a source is limited by the CD player. I'd rather have a great source and a basic amp vs. the other way around. My 521bee CD player on a $3500 MF intergrated can't touch a $3000 MF CD player on my NAD 272. Too bad I have the 521bee on my NAD 272 amp.  That's my experience, and I'm no expert! |
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Silver Member Username: Arande2400dB could probably d..., 4000 isnt ev... 100,000dB FU... Post Number: 188 Registered: Dec-06 | Hey I've seen the differences of differently priced Dvd players on the same system. A Pioneer Elite(the cheapest one) dvd player absolutely could not match the sound and picture of Rotel's flagship model($1500), this amazed me. Lol, this week at school, in history, we watched a movie and I asked my teacher if I could bring my little mini-system with a small subwoofer, my dvd player, and a component video cable because he was using cheap $10 computer speakers and a composite video cable to the projector to play the dvd(we watched Kangaroo Jack). Amazingly, he said, "Only if you okay it with the principal, if it gets damaged it's your fault for bringing it." I got it ok'd and brought it all in. Everyone was totally surprised by the picture quality and the sound that it all produced. It was everyone's favorite movie, I wonder why... If only more people understood the advantages of home theater(check my age lol). |
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