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New member Username: ElevenPost Number: 9 Registered: Nov-06 | I'm considering Outlaw 7700 vs 7125, haven't auditioned either yet, hopefully soon. Price difference of $1150, for an additional 75 WPC, plus the balanced inputs. Is there a substantial difference in sound quality going with balanced vs unbalanced? Or does this only matter on a case-by-case, system-by-system basis? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9331 Registered: May-04 | . It's rare to hear of a component that doesn't benefit from the balanced connection. By placing the hot and neutral/return signal lines above the ground plane the balanced line has a +6dB advantage in signal to noise ratio over an unbalanced line. When you consider reducing noise is a large portion of what you reach for when going further into the high end spectrum of components, +6dB is a massive amount of potential improvement. You do need to question how the conversion is made from unbalanced/single ended to balanced operation. Some manufacturers use transformers to make the swap from unbalanced to balanced operation. This isn't the ideal way to make the conversion, so, unless you have balanced line outputs from your sources, there really may not be the potential for full benefits from front to back balanced lines. If you have no balanced line outputs or inputs as of now and don't really see yourself investing in new components with this feature, save your money. If you see yourself growing into a fully balanced operational system, spend the money now to get started on the improvements balanced lines offer. . |
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Bronze Member Username: ElevenPittsburgh, PA USA Post Number: 14 Registered: Nov-06 | Thanks very much. So, are you saying that balanced lines between preamp and amp also require balanced lines between source and preamp to be effective? Or am I misinterpreting? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9333 Registered: May-04 | . If the source outputs unbalanced lines to the pre amp, the pre amp will have to make a conversion to get to a balanced output. How it does that conversion is important. The balanced line between pre and power amp is a good thing, but how much it will help with a signal that began as single ended is questionable depending on the quality of how the change was made to a balanced line. . |
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Bronze Member Username: ElevenPittsburgh, PA USA Post Number: 17 Registered: Nov-06 | I appreciate your help. Do manufacturers typically offer that kind of information in their product specifications? If so, what would I be looking for in those specs.... and if not, how might I determine how the conversion is performed? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9336 Registered: May-04 | . Manufacturers normally don't tell you how they do the conversion unless you specifically ask. Since Outlaw doesn't have retail outlets or factory reps I would call the company directly. If you can find a review of the unit, you might find the information in there. It is not that common to find a transformer based conversion in today's market but I would want to make certain what I was buying before spending the money, particularly if I wasn't running fully balanced lines throughout the system. Transformers don't rule out the possibility the unit still offers some benefits to balanced line connections. But good transformers that don't suffer from saturation at high voltage levels or signal loss due to mediocre construction are too easily placed inside a unit in order to advertise balanced operation. . |
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Bronze Member Username: ElevenPittsburgh, PA USA Post Number: 19 Registered: Nov-06 | Thanks very much for your insights. I do have one other question. What is the preferred method of conversion, the alternative to transformer-based conversion? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9346 Registered: May-04 | . An active differential circuit to achieve common mode rejection which raises the neutral above the ground. It's not a complicated circuit but it is more expensive to do well than a transformer might be. http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/audio_by_design/f_mary_c__gruszka.shtml . |
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Bronze Member Username: ElevenPittsburgh, PA USA Post Number: 20 Registered: Nov-06 | Thanks! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1738 Registered: Sep-04 | FWIW, I have compared balanced vs single ended connections between pre and power with single ended sources and the differences has always been quite noticeable. Then again, this was using expensive amplification (Chord Electronics) so the conversion was good - and the difference was big, more than big enough to warrant the extra cost of using balanced cables over single ended. Regards, Frank. |