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New member Username: DuggerPittsburgh, PA U.S.A. Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-06 | Howdy all!!!! I am looking for a good pair of speakers for a basic home stereo. I just ordered an Outlaw RR 2150 and will need some speakers. I would like some floorstanders, I think, in the $400-$600 apiece range ($1200 Max total). My room is aprox. 300 sq. ft. (15'x21'). I will be listening to mainly 70's classic rock, and some jazz. I will be using a standard technics 1210 turntable as my primary component. I am specifically curiuos about factory direct or internet only type sources. Why? Well I'm buying my Outlaw sight unseen, because it is supposed to be a good price being Internet only. Can I get speakers this way too? Any recomendations or warnings against would be most welcome. Thanks, Dugger |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 634 Registered: Oct-04 | Buying speakers online can be risky in that speakers are the component that can most affect the sound of your music other than the recording itself. However, it you spend enough time reading enough reviews from as many different sources as possible, than you can get a sense of what the speaker your considering is capable of; what it's strengths and weaknesses are. These are not Internet only brands, but they are OUTSTANDING deals that will deliver outstanding performance with the Outlaw, your musical taste, and still stay well within your budget. Wharfedale Diamond 8.4 http://www.amazon.com/Wharfedale-Diamond-8-4-Standing-Loudspeaker/dp/B000065USR Mission Volare v63 |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 635 Registered: Oct-04 | Another attractive Stereo Receiver buy is the Harman/Kardon HK4380 being sold in Harmon Audio's eBay store for under $200 (You need to win an auction that usually closes in the sub-$170 range, so place a bid for $200 and sit-back and win if you chose to do so). http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT &viewitem=%26item%3D150053854500%26%26 The HK has similar specs to the Outlaw. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue19/hk3480.htm |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 636 Registered: Oct-04 | Another GREAT deal is the Infinity Beta 50 http://cgi.ebay.com/INFINITY-BETA-50-CHERRY-PAIR-499-PREMIER-SELECT_W0QQitemZ130 042927454QQihZ003QQcategoryZ61376QQcmdZViewItem I'm not you, but I might go with the HK3450/Beta 50 set-up for a rock dominant stereo set-up. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 222 Registered: Apr-06 | I would stick with the Outlaw for one major reason: Onboard Bass Management. While you could certainly add a subwoofer with the HK (its sub-out acts as a preout, still sending a full range signal to the speakers), you get a bit more headroom and dynamic capability with your mains this way. As for speakers, there are many, many speakers to choose from in this price bracket. Look at brands like Paradigm, B&W, NHT, Klipsch, Wharfedale, KEF, etc. On the ID side, there is Axiom, Onix/Rockets, Ascend, and my personal favorite, Alegria Audio. Only real recommendation is to audition as much as you can. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 637 Registered: Oct-04 | Does that Onboard Bass Management option with the Outlaw justify spending $400+ than the HK? |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 227 Registered: Apr-06 | I'm debating it myself personally... Don't get me wrong, from everything I've heard the Outlaw has a more refined sound as well, which add to the value of the product, but what IMO will make the largest difference by far is that bass mgmt. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 638 Registered: Oct-04 | Stephen, I'm not trying to be critical, can you please describe how OBM contribute to "headroom" and "dynamic capability" in a two speaker set-up? I just can't figure it out. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 229 Registered: Apr-06 | It applies if the user adds a subwoofer to the system. Because bass management cuts off the bass signals before the amplification stage, more power is available to the higher frequencies than would be otherwise. You can hook up a subwoofer to the HK, but it has no XO, so it still sends a full range signal to the speakers. You can hook up a subwoofer via speaker line connection, and that will reduce the load on the speakers, but the amplifier's headroom won't be affected. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 640 Registered: Oct-04 | ah. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 641 Registered: Oct-04 | All things considered, in a two speaker, mostly musical, non sub-woofer set-up, I'd have to pocket the $400, and go with the HK. I think for non-HT usage, with the floorstanders suggested above, a sub-woofer is optional, IMHO |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 230 Registered: Apr-06 | "I'd have to pocket the $400, and go with the HK." Yeah, thats what I did; now I'm starting to regret that decision as I would like to add a subwoofer, simply for the improved dynamic capabilities it would offer, as well as the superior headroom. "I think for non-HT usage, with the floorstanders suggested above, a sub-woofer is optional, IMHO" It is, but it opens the door for potential improvements in performance. With the HK, that door isn't really there. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 642 Registered: Oct-04 | Stephen, Your considering a subwoofer with the Emmas? Please expand on this (I have been thinking about the Emmas for quite some time, but am not ready for them just yet). You have the HK3880, do feel the extra power of the HK3480 might provide that added headroom your looking for? Do you know if the Marantz SR4320 provides for OBM? I can't seem to tell from the specs. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 643 Registered: Oct-04 | $299 @ www.accessories4less.com |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 232 Registered: Apr-06 | AFAIK the Outlaw is the only stereo receiver to provide OBM. Of course one could simply get a 5.1 AVR and bypass this problem. As far as the Emmas/headroom issue goes, I'm not 100% sure whether it is the Emmas or the HK that is straining. All I know is at -10dB on the dial, the volume is fairly loud (by my standards) but the sound is relatively clean and very easy for me to listen to for hours. When I hit -5dB, it goes to hell and becomes harsh. Unfortunately for my ears, I do enjoy rocking out from time to time, and I wouldn't mind having some added volume during those times. Now I do have the 3380 vrs the 3480, and the 3480 does have an extra 40 watts of capacity. However, we all know the old SPL vrs wattage game where you have to double the watts to get a 3dB increase. As a result, I tend not to believe that the 3480 would solve the problem. Enter the subwoofer w/ OBM. The power hungry bass notes are eaten by the sub. At the same time, Emmas drivers are spared much abuse, and won't be approaching its limits either. All is well in the land. Plus I should net performance gains all across the board. Flaw: it won't be cheap to implement. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4481 Registered: Dec-04 | Err, Dugger already ordered the Outlaw, fellas. I like the Outlaws 1000w power consumption rating. Methinks the rr2150 will have rather high dynamic peaks, unless it is ironing a shirt at the same time. The receiver will drive low impedence speaker easily as well. So the speaker choices are quite broad, Doug. Sensitiviy need not be high, will great reserves of power. If your choice is for RnR only, a floorstander with 8"(or more) bass is always good. However, a sub is easy to manage, and might let you be a little more flexable with your choice for speakers, just in case your tastes begin to vary with age, like me.(insert joke here). Listen a lot, get some ideas, then you can get opinions on similar and comparitive speakers from various sources. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 233 Registered: Apr-06 | Also of note: volume is being compared to my old system, which ran off a low end Onkyo receiver with a real world power of ~40wpc and speakers that had an sensitivity of 89dB @ 1 watt. So theoretically, they should have fairly near the same output as my current system. However, it would not seem to be the case, even though the system is now in a smaller room. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 644 Registered: Oct-04 | There are plenty of good 5.1 receivers out there. The 6.1 Marantz SR5400 I own comes to mind (also on sale @ accessories4less for $299). You can always ebay the HK to off set the cost of a new receiver. Which sub are you considering? Tim's not offering one any longer, are you considering a HSU? It sounds like we have similar listening habits & system goals. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 234 Registered: Apr-06 | Hsu or Outlaw (also designed by Dr. Hsu) are on the short list; I'll likely audition a few B&M models as well, probably a Velodyne or two. I don't need anything with great extension, just good tight bass for music, and a reasonable amount of volume capability. This upgrade is still a ways off due to financial considerations, so I can always hope Tim does bring Tom back, as that would be ideal. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 645 Registered: Oct-04 | Do you think you'll be able to differentiate the subtleties between those various subs without direct comparisons? |
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Bronze Member Username: SerniterPiscataway, New Jersey USA Post Number: 80 Registered: Mar-06 | On my Sony receiver, it is possible to select subwoofer 'yes/no'. Selecting 'yes' prevents low frequencies from being sent to speakers. Would the HK not have a similar system? |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 235 Registered: Apr-06 | Srinivas: Its a stereo reciever; unfortunately it doesn't. Christopher: Thats why I'm going to audition a few subs in person before I order ID. If I'm not pleased with the performance, I'll send it back. As far as Tim's Tom goes though, I would order it w/o hesitation as I am familiar with his products, and I imagine it would match up w/ Emma quite well. They would make a cute couple, Tom and Emma would! |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 646 Registered: Oct-04 | Yeah, I have NO doubts about Tims' products, even though I have not listened to any yet, I trust the many positive opinions on this board. I will own a pair of Emmas sooner or later. However, after some very positive reviews, not to mention Positve-Feedback, I do get the sense that Alegria Audio as a company has stalled a bit. The Tom is no longer available, the Myrna is on hold, and the Ling Single is now only offered as a kit. I trust Tim is doing all he can do to keep his venture afloat. I would suggest, for what it's worth, a new website, some new pics, and an owners forum couldn't hurt, it's worked wonders at AV123. |
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New member Username: DuggerPittsburgh, PA U.S.A. Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-06 | Hey all, Thanks for the advice. Yes, I already ordered an Outlaw receiver. Here is how my thinking went (In case it helps anyone else): First I wanted a RECEIVER, not seperate amp, pre-amp, tuner do to cost alone. I didn't want to spend more than $1000 USD. I considered the following 11 models plus a #12 option - Used stuff. Here are the results: 1.) Onkyo -- Figured I could do a little better. 2.) Yamaha RX-497 -- thought HK would be better. 3.) Denon DRA-397 -- Liked HK better. 4.) Harmon Kardon 3380/3480 -- Great product and price but decided on Outlaw even though more $. 5.) Teac Receivers -- Figured NAD was better. 6.) Integra Receivers -- Figured NAD was better. 7.) Rotel RX 1052 -- Awesome, but thought NAD or Outlaw would suit my needs at much less. 8.) Musichall Maven 100 WRMS -- thought NAD or Outlaw were better for me at the price. 9.) Marantz SR 4021 -- I never owned a Marantz, and always wanted one; However, I decided the Outlaw was more of the modern day Marantz, then the Marantz (If this makes any sense?). 10.) NAD C720BBE -- Decided against for no clear reason (although specs state a modest 50w only). If I ever buy seperates though, they may very well be NAD. 11.) Outlaw RR 2150 -- Decided to take a chance, sight unseen based soley on reviews. 12.) USED GEAR -- I love vintage stuff, but decided an Outlaw could be bought new at the same price as many older units. I hope it is as good. Well, I hope this might help somebody. As for speakers --------- I AM STILL LOST????? Anybody have a favorite floorstander for under $1200 not already mentioned ? Thanks again to all, Dugger |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4485 Registered: Dec-04 | Doug, how big is your listening area? 70's rock and jazz can be hard to get just right from the same speaker(IMO). ID speakers are not the way for me, cost-wise, but pre-owned speakers may be. If you drop by a good shop they will likely have some trade-ins for you to try, and trade ins are often available for home trial! Trade-in speakers are usually well treated, because owners quite often buy new then swap them out quickly, if the sound is not right for them, or something else comes along. (richguytradeup-itis). I like those guys! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4486 Registered: Dec-04 | If you find a retailer, I kind of liked Polk Rti8's that I heard, although not in a good environment. |
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New member Username: DuggerPittsburgh, PA U.S.A. Post Number: 3 Registered: Oct-06 | Good point about trade-ins. KEF and B&W are sold near me. I also agree that Jazz and Rock might be tricky, but I hope there is something in my price range. Just looking for some recommendations so I know where to start. My main room is aprox. 300 sq. ft opening into two adjacent rooms of the same size. (which I can hopefully bleed a little sound into). I am looking for some big, full sound with a clean and classic 70's style feel. I've been around decent audio before, but years back. Its been awhile since I listened to my vinyl and I decided I really missed it. Problem is my old gear is all gone. I plugged my turntable into my mini-system, and OUCH!!!! That hurts!!! Anything will sound good to me at this point, but I want something nice I can use for years to come. The receiver is coming, just need some damn speakers. Thanks all!!!! |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 648 Registered: Oct-04 | The Outlaw RR2150 is a very good choice for the many reasons, including those written about by Stephen. If money was not an object, I might have gone with the Music Hall Maven 100 WRMS, just cause it looks so damn cool, I bet it sounds pretty good too. The NAD 50wpc sounds more like the 80-90wpc of lesser receivers (I have a C740 in 2ch set-up), I love the Marantz too (I have a SR5400 in a 5.1 set-up), but there's something about the HK3480 for less than $200 that compelled me to recommend it. It has a combination of good sound, plenty of power, and although I prefer knobs, dials, & gauges to digital displays & little buttons (like 1970s receivers), its simple sleek styling is attractive. Just make sure you chime back in to tell us upon which speaker you decided. |