Cleaning records

under_a_rock Bronze Member Username: Underarock Milwaukee, WI USA Post Number: 53 Registered: Oct-06	Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 15:35 GMT OK, guys, I know I've been posting a bit in a few forums here, and have appreciated all the help I've received. So, I'm indulging in posting yet another question (or two or three). I've read a few archived posts regarding cleaning LPs. I've seen $500 LP cleaning machines, which seems excessive, and then I've seen posts claiming that using mild hand soap or dish detergent and warm water will do the trick. Even alcohol may work. The good news regarding my now meager LP collection is that the LPs have been stored in their jackets in my living room, and where yet available, the sleeves as well. The bad news is that none have not been played on Rega or VPI turntables in the past, so probably do have some damage. I also have used DiscWasher on them in the past, when I was listening to LPs mainly (25-30 years ago and further back!), and the special DiscWasher brush was used periodically to clean the LPs off. Is this brush still useful, or should I just get a new one? Is DiscWasher really any good, or would soap do the job just as well? Are there so-called washers/cleaners to avoid, not only because they don't truly clean, but may leave some sort of magnetic residue as well? And what about these brushes that can be mounted on the cartridge, like my old Stanton had? Useful, or just a gimmick? Is this post too long? Probably!
Jan Vigne Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 9273 Registered: May-04	Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 23:21 GMT . u.a.r. - We've got to stop meeting like this. http://forum.stereophile.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9424&an=0&page=2#Po st9424 Let me answer a few of the questions not covered in that thread and its links. Whatever you played the discs on before is somewhat irrelevant. Unless the old system did gross and obvious physical damage to the disc, you are probably OK. One benefit to a better table and arm is the system tends not to track the same way the old table did. Depending on the comparison between old and new, the new table is probably a more stable platform that will keep the platter and stylus in a more constant and rigid contact. That will be the first step toward lowering the amount of noise you hear from the record groove. There is simply less random motion in those two parts which would have translated into random motion in the cantilever, which results in noise. Even with a less expensive cartridge mounted on a better table/arm combination the new stylus tends to sit in a slightly different spot in the record groove and therefore many listeners find they are playing "new" vinyl when they upgrade their table and cartridge. This doesn't mean the record will sound like a never before played item but you should hear less noise and more music with the new system. If you previously played the LP's with a damaged stylus, you might find the damage is still apparent in the form of missing high frequencies and distortion in dynamic peaks. There is really nothing that can be done to repair a disc with this sort of damage. While the Discwasher system was the best many of us had for many years, it had its problems. The first of which was the brush and the second the fluid. The brush collected contaminants and there was no simple or effective way to really deep clean the pad other than replacing it. The problem wasn't too bad if you only used the brush on new vinyl; but, if you used the system to clean very grungey LP's, you put alot of stuff into the fibers of the pad that then got distributed to every record you cleaned afterwards. Mostly the problem with the Discwasher system was that people tended to use the "if a few drops are good, then a lot of fluid is better" logic for using the Discwasher fluid. When you drenched a record with fluid you created a slurrry that the pad couldn't completely pick up. The crud then settled into the bottom of the groove and created a sort of "cement" that left lots of people wondering why their records sounded worse after using a cleaning fluid. You can use the air-dry method of cleaning described here; http://www.discdoc.com/p14.html This will get a disc fairly clean on the cheap but there is no substitute for a vacuum machine. http://www.uhfmag.com/Issue58/LPMachine.html http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=19835 http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html A vacuum cleaning machine does the best job of getting dirt out of the bottom of the groove once you've suspended the junk with a good fluid. There is no magic to a vacuum LP cleaning machine, it's a wet/dry vacuum motor and a platter. The cost of the commercial machines is primarily in the convenience of application and removal. You can use a low powered wet/dry vac and lay the disc on a clean, lint free towel and get the same effect. The machines just make it more convenient and less of a mess. Nothing I know of that you would consider putting on a record will leave a magnetic residue, though a fad that is in the press right now is demagnetizing your LP's due to the small amount of impurities in the carbon black used to color the vinyl. Whatever you use as a fluid or the materials to make you own should be as pure as your budget allows. If you read the blurbs on the exotic fulids, you will usually find they are really only touting the purity of the components they use to manufacture their product. In almost all cases the main ingredients of all commercial fluids are distilled water, a surfactant and sometimes alchohol. Once you get the discs cleaned completely, use a carbon fiber brush to do play-to-play cleaning. You can pick up a c.f. brush for under $20. The best pads for the cleaning machine have evolved from the Discwasher type directional pad to a simple microfiber pad. If you don't have a new, unused microfiber cloth handy, head to the auto parts store and look in the waxes and cleaners aisle. Run you hand over the various choices and pick the one that seems to cling to your hand the most. Don't use any brushes that attach to your cartridge. They mess with the tracking on warped or off center discs and only really collect dust to be distributed into the record groove just ahead of the stylus. . http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/fluids.html
under_a_rock Bronze Member Username: Underarock Milwaukee, WI USA Post Number: 54 Registered: Oct-06	Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 06:52 GMT Well, Jan, I am truly sorry for asking what I thought would be a simple question (ok, questions), but upon reading the thread you supplied, and the links therein, plus your own able explnations, again my misunderstanding and ignorance of the processes became quite evident. As you say, Discwasher was all "we" had back in the olden days (pre-CD). About the only thing I did right was follow the instructions to just use a few drops at a time -- hey, I didn't want to run out of the stuff! Again, I don't know how to thank you properly for all the time and effort you've taken to answer my "simple" questions, and apologize if I've pestered you, as well as other experts on this board, too much! Sincerely, u.a.r.
Jan Vigne Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 9292 Registered: May-04	Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 14:18 GMT . These are the questions I would rather be answering on this forum. You'll be pestering me when you ask, "What subwoofer cable is the best?"
under_a_rock Bronze Member Username: Underarock Milwaukee, WI USA Post Number: 55 Registered: Oct-06	Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 14:37 GMT Jan, thanks. I just don't want to be keeping you away from your day job, that's all!
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 4487 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Friday, November 03, 2006 - 22:40 GMT That still gets under your skin, huh Jan?
Jan Vigne Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 9301 Registered: May-04	Posted on Saturday, November 04, 2006 - 04:09 GMT . What? Subwoofer cables? Yeah, big time. There are questions that are asked that are sincere and require an thougtful answer. There are questions that are not very good questions because the person doesn't know enough to know what to ask. There are people that ask dumb questions because they're too lazy to know any better. There are questions that are asked repeatedly because the person is either too stupid or too lazy to search the archives for ten seconds. And then there are people who want me to tell them which subwoofer cable is the best. Those are the ones that really chap my fanny.
Kevin Corr Bronze Member Username: Kevincorr Fairbanks, Alaska Usa Post Number: 73 Registered: Jul-07	Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 01:03 GMT JAN: "...Don't use any brushes that attach to your cartridge. They mess with the tracking on warped or off center discs and only really collect dust to be distributed into the record groove just ahead of the stylus..." Yah, I got that wrong too. My old turntable had the brush. It did illustrate that the LP you thought was clean was not.

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