Wharfedale diamond 9.1
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New member Username: Carmen07Post Number: 1 Registered: Oct-06 | Hi, I'm currently looking at this pair of speaker wharfedale 9.1 and I'm not sure about this speaker how it sounds like. Can I have some feedback on this baby. Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 550 Registered: Oct-04 | The 9.1 is one of the best bookshelfs on the market, certainaly one of the best under $500. http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/1105wharfedale/ The older 8.2 (6.5" mid/bass) is on sale @ Amazon for $199 delivered, a real steal!. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00005IA30 Also consider the Onyx X-LS for $219 from AV123 (excellent choice). http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=82.1 And the Ascend Acoustic 170SE for $348. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html Axiom M3ti at $320 is another good value. http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3ti_main.html |
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New member Username: Carmen07Post Number: 2 Registered: Oct-06 | Hi Thanks for the update. I've heard the wharfedale 9.1 and I'm quite please with the sound but will need all the expertise to give comment on this speakers before buying. Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 551 Registered: Oct-04 | A Goggle search is usually all it takes to find an "expert" review, but honestly, if the 9.1 sounds good to you and it's within your buget, that's all that should matter, IMHO. Glad to be of service. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1385 Registered: Jun-05 | I would say,the 9.1s normally,but with the blowout prices on the Infinity Beta 20s or the Onyx X-LS,they both offer better soundstages and bigger bass.The Onyx will be a little more laid back on the topend,while the Beta 20s are a little more foward in the topend,they are the 2 best speakers around for under $400. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 553 Registered: Oct-04 | T, you've listened to the X-LS? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 554 Registered: Oct-04 | Infinity Beta 20s for $199! Factory refurbs, but who cares? http://cgi.ebay.com/INFINITY-BETA-20-CHERRY-PAIR-ONLY-199-WHAT-A-DEAL_W0QQitemZ1 30036780771QQihZ003QQcategoryZ94905QQcmdZViewItem |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 555 Registered: Oct-04 | Infinity Beta 20s for $199! Factory refurbs, but who cares? I like refurbs! http://cgi.ebay.com/INFINITY-BETA-20-CHERRY-PAIR-ONLY-199-WHAT-A-DEAL_W0QQitemZ1 30036780771QQihZ003QQcategoryZ94905QQcmdZViewItem |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1389 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris I have the Beta 20s infact they have replaced,the Epos M12.2 in my Musical Fidelity setup that was leaving something to be desired.They sound much better in this system than the Epos do,not to say that they are better,because we know a Creek setup would change all that,hell I heard the 5350s on some els 3s that would put most 5k systems to shame. I also have a pair a Primus 150,and I have heard the X-LS that were modified and stock for a brief extint,and all I can say is WOW!,I just ordered mine today,in stock version,but with the stage one mod not on the speaker, ,and I heard it can be taken a couple steps further and for not much more .I also finnally heard both Ascends,old ones and the SEs. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 556 Registered: Oct-04 | Try this on the X-LSs: http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15769 I've been itching for a pair of X-LSs, and I might pick up a pair soon, but I'm probably going to wait for a while. I just picked up a pair of Boston XR77s ($122) that I'm getting comfortable with, they're very nice paired with my Cambridge 540A set-up, they sound quite good with my NAD too. Haven't tried the Marantz yet. I'm more convinced than ever how special those Mission M32i are. Have you heard them? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1392 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah We used to carry Mission at H.H.Gregg when I used to work there about 8 years ago,before anyone in america really knew about them,they were neck and neck with the Infinity Refferance series,but with a different sound,less bass but cleaner than the Infinity,with a better topend and midrange,but could be bright on the wrong gear.I had a pair of Boston VR40s back in the day,I liked them they imaged well,but they were kind a bright,overall though a very exciting speaker .I wished Onix still had the Piano gloss rosewood,thats one of the nicest looking standmounters I,ve ever seen,I would have been all over that like Beyonce,they look like they cost 3k.Im getting the package that knowone knows about because they dont ask when they call Onix,im getting the Sp-3 tube intergrated amp and the X-LS's for $699,it has to be the best deal on this planet,I dont think I come with anything close to that setup for anywhere near that price if i was trying to put a system together for a customer or a friend.The SP-3 won several awards around the world last year it had a banner year in 2005.And did I mention how sharp that rig looks! |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 557 Registered: Oct-04 | I TOTALLY agree about that Onyx package, it's great deal. I'm number 1 on the waiting list for the next pair of Piano Rosewood, that's why I said I might not pick them up too soon. Next year AV123 is moving their production to a new factory in South America, then there will be more finish options. I also realize that for some strange reason, I'm attracted to the look of speakers with rounded-over edges, I also think they're less prone to nicks & dings because of it, and rosewood just speaks for itself, the piano finish just puts it over the top. The SP-3 is OUTRAGOUS looking, I love it. Which brings me to a point. While most audiophiles won't admit to it, but an enthusist like myself will, looks count, and AV123 gets it right. I truly wish more companies reverted to an "Old Scool" look, as opposed to the euro-techno approach. I think I'm done with the Home Theater thing for a while. I prefer stereo listening, and with a pair of speakers with the imaging capabilities of the M32i, I get all the surround I need. The problem is they're bigish, black, and don't exactly go with my living room decor, or at least the that's what the wife thinks. so I'm sticking with the Radius 5.1 set-up for now. I wish The Emmas looked like those X-LSs. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 559 Registered: Oct-04 | The Beta 20s out classeed the M12.2s, wow! I haven't listened to the M12.2s in a while, but when I did, I was very impressed. So 2-bills for a pair of B20s is a steal, aye? Do you own a pair of Emmas? Where would your place them in the hiarchy of speakerdom. Are they the most exciting speaker under one-grand in your opinion? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1396 Registered: Jun-05 | Since you are already waiting for the gloss piano rosewood finish X-LS,you might as well save and get the Ref1/SP-3 combo,you should'nt look back after that.I know I want to get my hands on the Ref 1s,it very well could be the best most versitle standmounter around for under 2k. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 560 Registered: Oct-04 | At $1199 The SP-3/Ref.1 combo is an absolute steal. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1397 Registered: Jun-05 | Yep no setup,can get anywhere near touching that system at or near that price,but imagine the X-LS,in that package with the SP-3,instead of Ref 1s at 699,because the X-LS are much much closer to the R1s than people would ever admit,and um I dont wanna make any REf owners mad,but once the mods start being done to the X-LS,well I wont say anymore.Hey whats up with these Ascends people people thinking their speakers are the best thing on the planet.I saw them comparing the 340 SEs to Ref 1s saying they were better they must be smoking something,Ascend owners remind me of Honda onwners,they think they are better than anything even if they are clearly not better,man illusions,illusions. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 120 Registered: Aug-05 | "The Onyx will be a little more laid back on the topend,while the Beta 20s are a little more foward in the topend,they are the 2 best speakers around for under $400." You've heard the Ascend Acoustics 170SE? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4356 Registered: Dec-04 | TW, where do the R1's better the 340's, and are the SE's that much of an improvement over the previous release? How tight are the x-ls's to the R1? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 561 Registered: Oct-04 | T, What amazes me is that Ascend Acoustics has not seen the need to upgrade their cabinet finishes, no wood, or even vinyl veneers, it's paint or raw MDF. At $328+s/h, you should have a greater choices,IMHO. Which brings me to AV123, it is absolutely astonishing that they can turn a profit on the X-LS given its quality, both drivers & cabinetry. Given, from what I've read, there is some room for improvements in the crossover design, but I'm fairly confident AV123 listens to it's customers (more so it would seem than any other company I've encountered), and improvents are in the works. I like this company. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 121 Registered: Aug-05 | "Which brings me to AV123, it is absolutely astonishing that they can turn a profit on the X-LS given its quality, both drivers & cabinetry." Well those Peerless India drivers cost less than $10 a pair. As for the tweeter quality.... "As reported in another thread, after measuring these tweeters we DID see an ~ 1.0dB / 1.25dB (output) variance from spec'd design... Every tweeter I measured was in fact a tad low in overall output... I have offered to replace any tweeters FREE OF CHARGE (of course) for those interested... All the best... mls" - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8586460&&#post8586460 What kind of quality control do they have if they didn't find out the tweeters didn't meet spec until the purchasers started complaining about the roll off of the top end? |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 122 Registered: Aug-05 | Basically, if the av123's $250 X-LS is better than the Ascend 170SE then they compete with their own $1500 Ref 1. Don't believe it. Where did my post go linking the 340SE measurements and pointing out that the owner of Onix didn't show any interest in a blind listening test between the Ref 1 and the 340SE? |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 123 Registered: Aug-05 | Oops, that should have been $220 x-ls. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 564 Registered: Oct-04 | Quinn, Thanks; I was not aware of the tweeter issue. I was under the impression from what I read in the Audioholics review that the drivers cost quite a bit more than what you quoted. http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/Onixxlsp1.php Have you listened to the X-LS with the proper tweeter upgrade? Is the new X-LS shipping with the proper tweeter? In your opinion the X-LS comparable to the CBM-170SE, or is it completely outclassed? It's all hype & BS? I've listen to "budget" speakers that compete well with "high-end" speakers, is it possible that to some the X-LS is preferable to the Ref.1, or is that just crazy in your estimation? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 565 Registered: Oct-04 | I know it's trivial, but there's an aesthetic consideration between the two. That real wood veneer on the X-LSs has to count for something when comparing the two. My wife would think so. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4358 Registered: Dec-04 | Agreed |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1399 Registered: Jun-05 | Sorry,Quinn,I know you are a Ascend owner,but the 340s are no where near,the Ref 1s,and yes the X-LSs drivers cost a great deal more than what Quinn,stated.And I would put the Infinity Beta 20s,any day against,the Ascends 340s or 170s,for cheaper for better performance and a bigger sound,and they look better.See,Quinn,most Ascend owners have this false notion that they can compete against anything regardless of the price,which is totally untrue,and they are not the cheapest price wise like they claim it to be. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1400 Registered: Jun-05 | Quinn I read a little bit what you said over at av123.com ,I dont know all the details,but I talked to Sean about it,he really didnt say,but he assured me that the Tweeters were fine.From what gather,a lengthy breakend is needed for the tweeters to open up,most peerless drivers are like that,whether from India,or Denmark.Both reviews were fine infact,the reviewers both raved about the topend,living with a foward speaker for a while can give this kind of perception also,considering the X-LS is so laid back. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1401 Registered: Jun-05 | Nuck the R1s are better than the 340s in everyway,and by a pretty far margin to,not to say that the 340s are not a good speaker,because they are.SEs are better than old 340s everywhere,with a lot more bass the SEs are a very good speaker,they are just a little bright for my taste,its no way they are flat like they claim them to be,they are tilted up above 1klz.The 170SE,now those i like,they are much more laid back than 340s,with better imaging,impressive speaker,them and the X-LS is a real close,they are a litte cleaner than the X-LS in the midbass(stock version),the mids on XL-S is way way better than any budget speaker should ever be.The athority in the midrange is impressive with great body and depth,with some real slam down stairs and I love that sweat topend,reminds me of Vienna Acoustics topend extended sweat and non fatiging,trully the best speaker at thet retail price ever,and i own the other 2 champs at that price and these have really moved the bar up,I think the 340SEs would be very impressive on a tube amp,it may be able to tame some of that brightness. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1402 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris,I would'nt call the Emmas,exciting,I would call them smooth,with a addiction that will creep up on you,yeah one of the best for under 1k very good speaker as is the Lings,i wish i could've had more time with the Emmas,and reviewed them,like I was supposed to,maybe Tim will give me another shot at them one day. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 124 Registered: Aug-05 | Okay who wants to organize a blind listening test between the 340SE and the REF 1? Tawaun- I think you're I think you are letting your distain for Ascend from the Ascend v Alegria dustup last year cloud your judgement instead of listening with your ears. Why don't you ask Tim how his conversation with Dave Fabrikant about design and implementation after that dust-up influenced the changes for Emma v.2? Danny sells the drivers for $24 each. Now figure that there is a 3 to 4 times mark-up from what he pays wholesale for him to make any money. Then think about what kind of wholesale price av123 gets for the mutliples of quanity that they are buying at versus what Danny buys. http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/m130.shtm Peerless located in Denmark(Tymphany)http://www.tymphany.com/ is a completely different company from Peerless India. http://www.peerlessaudio.com/ Since, I know you are anti anything Ascend Acoustics and anyone who owns them ask Tim about Peerless v. Peeless India. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 125 Registered: Aug-05 | "Quinn I read a little bit what you said over at av123.com ,I dont know all the details,but I talked to Sean about it,he really didnt say,but he assured me that the Tweeters were fine" How exactly did you get to talk to Sean over the weekend? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1403 Registered: Jun-05 | Who said it was over the weekend well Friday counts as the weekend to me maybe you need to get out a little more,and you can read thru all my posts,aside from Dave Fabrikant,coming over here like a jerk jumping all over Tim like a a$$hole,was the only thing I ever said negative about Ascend the man behind them on a personal note not his product.At the time I never said anything bad about Ascend for 1 thing I had never heard them,and you can ask anyone including Eddie(the original Ascend owner on this forum) about well research it,since you are on your search rampage right now.I know enough about Peerless India and Peerless,I've been to parts express which is 12 miles from my house on several occasions.Both companies still share ideas and designs they were both together at one time.You did know that didnt you Mr. research,look dude im not about to get into Ascend flame war with you I heard them the 170SE was very impressive the 340SE was so,so.You Ascend guys get so offended when someone doesent like your speaker to death get over it the owner of Ascend and all of you sure reflect that attitude of you guys against the world and everyone on every forum knows that,and one more thing I dont let personal fueds get in the way with speaker testing. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 577 Registered: Oct-04 | T, I missed out on the exchange between Tim and Dave, can you please provide me with a synopsis. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4395 Registered: Dec-04 | Ascend owners are like parents with ugly kids who are good at math or spelling bee's. I read the forum over there, and the owners seem like parents of butt-ugly kids. But they spell really well. Yeah, after taking the ugly shovel in the face. I won't comment on the SQ for now(till my friend tries them on my rec), but better looking stuff comes out of my garage. Maybe it's part of the Karma? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1404 Registered: Jun-05 | Basically,Chris,I dont wanna start any waves for Tim,all I can say is I have never seen a manufacture act like that it was totally distasteful.Nuck is right they are major trolls,that go to every forum,and go on crusades against all other speakers,Eddie & David are the only ones that I've ran into that isnt like that.Thats funny Nuck,you hit the nail on the head their speakers are ugly,the Ascend people seem to be very bitter,but yet they feel they have the best speakers under 1k that can challenge any speaker even if its a 20k mega buck speaker,whats wrong with that picture. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1405 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris go,thru the Archives and you should be able to dig it up I dont know exactly where it is,but its there if they didnt delete it,it got very nasty,and DF,thru many threats at Tim,simply horrible conduct from a company,I've never heard or read anything like it on a open forum. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 579 Registered: Oct-04 | Not to throw gas on the fire, but I have to agree with the cosmetic issue with the Ascend. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 214 Registered: Apr-06 | Ascend CBM-340 SE vrs Wilson CUB!!! |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 126 Registered: Aug-05 | Tawuan is igoring Tim's behavoir on that thread and that Tim could have been taken to court for liable. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 127 Registered: Aug-05 | "Who said it was over the weekend well Friday counts as the weekend to me maybe you need to get out a little more,..." Maybe you should know that Sean was out at the RMAF show on Friday before you start claiming you talked to him at the office. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 128 Registered: Aug-05 | No one is claims that Ascends match up with $20K speakers. I am claiming that the 170SE is one of the best for sound quality under $400 and that the $550 340SE can compete with the $1500 Onix Ref 1 for sound quality. Anyone want to set-up a blind listening comparison? |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 129 Registered: Aug-05 | Christopher- You won't find the thread. Tim and Dave F. requested and were granted that the thread be removed. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 215 Registered: Apr-06 | "No one is claims that Ascends match up with $20K speakers." I find it fairly common among Ascend owners that they like to tout the neutrality of their speakers, particularly with their relatively flat FR. Given that the FR of the CUB isn't particularly attractive, I wouldn't doubt that some Ascend owner out there will one day make the comparo. Besides, I have heard at least one Ascend owner make the claim that they are the best speaker, bar none. As far as the Onix vrs the 340, it perhaps wouldn't be as big of a shock to me as I would imagine given their great price differences. The Ref 1 does go on sale from time to time (the 1149 for amp and Ref 1 looks like a nice deal) for one thing, while I have yet to hear of any Ascend sales. Compounding that is the vastly superior finish on the Ref 1, which is worth at least some money both in production, and to a final consumer. Nonetheless, I am interested to hear how these two speakers are competitive, in your opinion. "Anyone want to set-up a blind listening comparison?" How do you propose to set that up? On a side note, I would actually be interested in the Tim & Dave discussion for Emma v2 though, being that I am an owner of the v2. I am aware of some of the differences, but I would find the conversation interesting nonetheless. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 585 Registered: Oct-04 | I have not listened to any products from Alegeria, Ascends, or AV123. I gather from what I've read, all three manufacture appealing speakers, and depending on your budget & tastes, you'll be attracted to one or the other. The question is which presents the best value: The Ling, the CBM-170 SE, or the Onix X-LS? The Emma, the CBM-340 SE, or the Reference 1? One may handle music better than HT, or one might be prettier than the other, in the end which would you buy in each category? |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 216 Registered: Apr-06 | It simply depends on your tastes CM. None of them are the *perfect* speaker, and all have made tradeoffs. For me, the Emma simply does it. It isn't the most detailed speaker on the planet. It certainly isn't as revealing as my headphones (not that I expected it to be). But not to sound too cliched, but it simply presents things in a way that come off as more real/palpable to me. I don't know how to define it in audiophile terms (midrange bloom/warmth/brightness/whatever), but voices sound like voices, etc more to me on the Emma than any other speaker I had auditioned within my price point. From everything else I've heard, it sounds like the Ling is moreso in that direction, at the expense of some other areas of performance in comparison with the Emma. While I haven't listened to the other speakers to make a direct comparison, for me and me alone, the Emma beat out more expensive models from Paradigm, Polk, Klipsch, NHT, KEF, etc etc etc. Thats not to say that the other speakers didn't do things better in certain areas of performance, but for what I value, they simply didn't win. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1407 Registered: Jun-05 | Quinn if I had the Ref 1s I would gladly listen to them dismantle the 340s.My falt you are right I talked to Sean on thursday when I ordered the X-LS,and furthermore Tim measured the Ascends and they were not as flat as DF measured them,im not gonna sugarcoat anything,yeah Tim should'nt have posted it on the forums but that was all he did,and DF nearly threatend his life,and he was a total a$$hole about the whole situation.The bottom line is if you as a manufacture claim superior measurements dont think that other consumers and competing manufactures wont measure your prooduct to see if the claims hold true,keep it real or keep it hush. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1408 Registered: Jun-05 | When the X-LSs get here i will have 3 speakers that i would put against the 340SEs or 170SEs or the classics,it doesent matter to me,i know my speakers would compete very well and then some. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1409 Registered: Jun-05 | ...And the speaker that this thread is about would compete very well to as well as my older 8.1s. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1410 Registered: Jun-05 | Personally,Chris,I think the Ref 1s are on a different level than all the other speakers thats mentioned,and by right,considering that the closest competitor is $800 cheaper it should be.The Ascend people keep pushing this debate,so they can justify what a good deal and a bargain they have,the av123 people never ask to compare the 340,or 340SEs to the Ref 1s,a more likely competitor is the Rocket 250mk.2,but they never push for that comparison,because they want something at more than double the cost to be close to,you see where im getting at with this Chris,but its on them now because the X-LS actually does compete with the 340SEs that nearly cost 3x more,and with the minor mods will wipe the floor with them and go head to head with Ref 1,its bad to be left in the cold. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 130 Registered: Aug-05 | Tawaun your memory is very selective in that Ascend came on the board to show how Tim's measurements were faulty and defend their product from his slander/liable. Are you also implying that the NRC measured the 170s incorrectly too? http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/reviews/SS_AscendReprint.2.pdf Your bias against Ascend is quite obvious. A review of Ascend from you would be worthless. BTW- Sean was at RMAF on Thursday too. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 131 Registered: Aug-05 | IMO the 340SE competes with the Ref 3 outside of the bottom end extension. And I'd put the 170SE up against the 250.2 anyday cause I think it competes with the Ref 1 minus bottom end extension. Besides that I've heard the 250 against the older Ascend clssics 170. I use the 340SE v. Ref 1 because the bottom extension is very close. Of course the Onix people aren't pushing for this comparision. Why would they want it known that the Ascends' sound quality is competitive with their Ref line? Don't you remember their dodge of this blind listening test on that other forum when challenged? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1413 Registered: Jun-05 | Now its ,the Ref 3s,are the Wilson Sophias next,wait a minute how a bout the Dynaudio Evidence,wow what next,you Ascend guys really have high hopes,and dreams kinda like American Idols,your a bunch of Clay Aikens.Look man tell your guys founder to atleast,invest in at least vinyl woodprint before you try to take on real flagships. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 587 Registered: Oct-04 | I second that. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1414 Registered: Jun-05 | Everything is minus bottom end extention with you guys,geesh at least get down to 40 HTZ 1st,or how about this try making a floorstander to compete with floorstanders,minus doesent= playing in the Ref 3s class or any other decent companies flagship,get real dude! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4410 Registered: Dec-04 | The Mona Lisa in a ratty bathrobe and fuzzy slippers? Facecake, cigarette and coffee mug that says 'who cares'? Ahh, but the smile... |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 589 Registered: Oct-04 | We wont talk about Myrna, not yet. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1415 Registered: Jun-05 | And measurements only go so far,that doesent mean that speakers are gonna sound better in a real life situation or a normal room for that matter.JM Lab doesent use NRC,do you know any PSB that sounds better than the JM Lab Grand Utopias? Damn a whole bunch of Paul Bayless's,good greef! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4411 Registered: Dec-04 | Yeah, but Paul has to work with Sue...you try that. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1417 Registered: Jun-05 | Ha Ha Ha! |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 590 Registered: Oct-04 | ....um, who's Sue? |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 132 Registered: Aug-05 | Well, I smashed and dislocated my toes. Got to have them reset 2 days later. OUCH!!!! Have to wait until next week to find out from follow up x-rays if I'll be one of those rare cases where they put pins in toes. I'll try to catch up on this thread and continue the debate when I come out of the codeine fog. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 218 Registered: Apr-06 | Ouch. Sorry to hear that Quinn. Get better soon! |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1434 Registered: Jun-05 | I'll be waiting for you. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1435 Registered: Jun-05 | But,get better 1st I know your in pain. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4431 Registered: Dec-04 | Oy! Quinn, that reads awfully painfully, I do not want to imagine how the shoe fits. Mend well.Have someone pick up some new music to pass the time. Maybe peruse the 'reference music' thread for requests? |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1044 Registered: May-05 | See Quinn if you'd been carrying those incredibly puny XL-S or Ref. 1s instead of the huge and heavy 340SEs, you wouldn't have broken your toes. LOL Sorry buddy, I couldn't resist but hope all goes well. Can I sue you to recover damages for your toes? OK, so the Ascends are not as pretty as other speakers, it's what comes out that counts. Tim's Emmas are incredibly beautiful and sound great, too. Even though I now have the 340SEs in my possession, I haven't hooked them up yet although I may try that in my stereo system just to be able to compare them somewhat to what I remember the Emmas sounding like. I haven't heard the XL-S or Ref 1s so I have no way to comment on most of what you've been saying, T-Man. I listen to speakers to see whether they reproduce music well or whether they make listening and watching movies more fun. My Ascend 340C and 170s do the latter in spades. Are there better musical speakers out there for the money, I don't know, as you guys all know, I LIVE IN THE AUDIO DESERT!!! Are the Ascends pretty dang good for the price and are the 170s amazing for their size, ABSOLUTELY!! Am I going to compare the 170s to the sound coming out of the rebuilt AL Stonehenge IIs I own, the Paradigm Studio 100s or $25,000 Vandersteins I heard - NOPE not in the cards or the components I'm afraid. However, I would say that the 170s do some things better than the Paradigms, which I thought were just OK in the highs. Geez, imagine that, a manufacturer that has to compromise something in a $2000/pair speakers. But, let's tone the rhetoric down a bit and be civil. Also, let's see if you can't arrange a blind test of the 3 speakers mentioned in each category, that would be fun and, guess what, I bet nobody agrees on what's best. But, I suspect that no one would agree completely on any 3 competitively-priced speakers that we might pick. That's why we have so many different speaker manufacturers and speakers, NO? I know I'm not telling you guys anything ya don't already know but the discussion went from discussion to accusation, hardly civil or constructive I think. Now, on the whole Tim and Dave F., thing, let it rest, they sure have. Dave has talked with Tim and Tim has talked with Dave, call it a friendship, a respect thing, whatever. But, they both love what they do and they're apparently able to discuss it, provide info. and share ideas with each other. So, I would say that whatever happened is ancient history and should be left at that. They're certainly not dogging it so why are we? OK, I have to get back to work again. Fight on, just not for U.S.C., I hate those guys. Bruins rule and Toobs too. LOL |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3625 Registered: Feb-05 | Beavers ruled last week! Too bad for USC....not! |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1045 Registered: May-05 | The Beavers were my 2nd favorite team last week. But I'm afraid my Bruins suck big time this year. WSU, on the other hand, is starting to look like a pretty good team, if they could just get 1/2 their defensive players healthy they'd be scary. LOL Anyway, USC is the team everyone should love to hate. I believe their football team is paid better than most pro teams, and we won't even get into the sweaters on those cheerleaders. LOL |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1446 Registered: Jun-05 | I would like to hear and test more than 3 speakers,because Ascend and av123 are not the only speakers at this price level thats very good for the money. |
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Bronze Member Username: PatrickbatemanMA Post Number: 43 Registered: Oct-05 | I like the Monitor Audio GR10 (around 600 used) and the Energy RC10 (600 new) better than the Ascend 170SE and the Ref1 |
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Bronze Member Username: PatrickbatemanMA Post Number: 44 Registered: Oct-05 | Haven't heard the Emma's though  |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1494 Registered: May-05 | Quinn - Have you ever contributed anything to this forum other than your usual Ascend is the best speaker ever banter? What do you do, lurk around the forum and wait until someone has something bad to say about Ascends? I can honestly say I've never seen you talk about anything else. Just because Ascend is that last pair of speakers you'll ever own doesn't mean that everyone else feels that way. Why do you feel that everything is inferior to your speakers? I've heard them on a few occasions at a neighbor's house, and I must say I wasn't at all impressed. Especially after the way you guys go on and on about them. They're a good speaker, don't get me wrong, but there's no way they compete with speakers costing multiples of their price. The guy who said that they 'compare favorably to Paradigm Studios' needs his hearing checked. The Ascends are a step up from the big-box store speakers. I think they're a good H/T speaker, but music leaves something to be desired IMO. They don't do much wrong pre se, but they don't excel at anything either. I didn't find them engaging or interesting in any way. The 'eliminate the middle man and save hundreds' sales pitch is a gimmick. Whatever profit that a store would have made, they want to keep for themselves. Let's be honest here, you're not getting a $1000 pair of speakers for $568. More like you're getting a $700 pair for $568. Then again, I probably don't know what I'm talking about either... |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 231 Registered: Apr-06 | "The 'eliminate the middle man and save hundreds' sales pitch is a gimmick." As supported by the marketing textbooks I've read which state that increasing/decreasing the channel depth of the retail chain doesn't actually influence price. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4482 Registered: Dec-04 | Supply, demand and profit determine price. Build something that customers will want. Develop a market. Determine how to produce the product at a lower and lower cost. Determine how to produce appropriate quantities. Determine how to maintain a customer base. If lower cost is your way of developing a customer base, return to step 2. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1448 Registered: Jun-05 | Stu,you are right about Ascend on that though,but their are other internet brands that really do cut out the middleman like nix,ACI,Odyssey,Ohms,Outlaw to name a few and then you can look at other companies that made a living at internet dirrect,and now do retail and factory dirrect to like:Legacey Audio,Green Mountain,Usher again just to name a few.In most cases internet companies do give you better build and performance for the money,but Ascend is not one of them,its just a pretty accurate speaker,with a lifless sound,and most notably,proving that they dont offer more for less,look at that horrible finish,thats unexceptable for a so called world beater,simply tasteless,and they really need to do something about it. |
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Silver Member Username: QuinnPost Number: 133 Registered: Aug-05 | I have very little respect for this board(Okay, it is much better now that you have to register.) and a few of it's arrogant posters that is why I check in so little. Let's look at Tawaun- Disappears for a long time. Comes back talking about setting up his own audio business yet is constantly pimping one internet direct company and running down another. Anyone find it strange that someone with their own brick and morter audio business would be pimping an ID brand that they are going to have to compete against? He isn't just acknowledging that there are some good ID products he is actively promoting one company any chance he gets. At the sametime Tawaun resurfaces here he registers at AVS and does the same promoting of particular ID and trying to run another down to the best of his ability. Now we see a B&M guy on multiple boards promoting an ID company he has to compete against. Hmmmm.... So, I'm thinking okay the ID company Tawaun's pimping has a few B&M businesses that carry their products. It will come out that Tawaun is or will be carrying them and his shilling will be obvious. But, suddenly Tawaun has a couple of nice things to say about the other ID company that he's been running down after he got beat down on AVS. Now, I'm really suspicious at this point because from my reading of his posts here to me it is so out of character for Tawaun to change is position and start to make nice about anything. I really have to wonder if Tawaun is taking his direction from somewere else. GoodSound just reviewed the X-LS speaker and the only thing they were really impressed with was the cabinet- "There is some good competition at the x-ls's price, such as the Axiom M3 and Paradigm Atom. I had neither of these speakers on hand, but I did live for years with the Axiom M3. If I were looking for speakers under $300/pair, I wouldn't want to make my final choice without having heard the Axiom and Paradigm options." http://goodsound.com/equipment.shtml You can also read GoodSound's review of the old "classic" Ascend 170. http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/ascend_cbm170.htm You can have your psycho-acoustics from the pretty cabinet. I'll take truly good sound at a great price from the guy's with the basic cabinet. It all just re-enforces the need to listen for yourself and decide what you like best. When it is all said and done our debates aren't that different from debating which is the best flavor of ice cream. Tawaun- What the heck is the $200 diy x-over upgrade that you can get for the X-LS? I upgraded my Ascend 170s from the classics to the SEs for $160. For my $160 I got, new woofers, new SEAS tweeters, a new x-over and someone else did all the work. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 647 Registered: Oct-04 | GoodSound DID recommend the X-LS/X-Sub (that is said to be "in a class by itself") as a "Great Buy". And the whole paragraph from the review from which the excerpt above is taken reads as follows: "I compared the AV123 x-ls with my Axiom M22 speakers. The most recent version of the M22 sells for $460/pair -- more than twice as much as the x-ls. Does the Axiom offer twice the sound? Well, I'm not sure how to figure that out, but it did better the x-ls in enough features that I think the price difference is justified. For that extra $241 I get a more relaxed, less congested sound that better controls the overall musical presentation. For example, the Axioms aren't frustrated by the complex passages in the Strauss works, and keep the instrumental timbres consistent throughout such passages. If I had the money in my budget, I'd spring for the Axioms -- but remember that for that price you could have two pairs of AV123 x-ls speakers. Many people might prefer to have good, pleasant sound in two rooms rather than better sound in one place. There is some good competition at the x-ls's price, such as the Axiom M3 and Paradigm Atom. I had neither of these speakers on hand, but I did live for years with the Axiom M3. If I were looking for speakers under $300/pair, I wouldn't want to make my final choice without having heard the Axiom and Paradigm options." ...So the excerpt reads a bit different when put into context. As for the insinuations about Tawaun, you would seem to be throwing gasoline on the fire, and have chosen to make your disagreement a little too personal, and if I were him, I'd be very very pissed. Tawaun has been nothing but helpful to me & many others on this board. If Ascend has friends like you, who needs enemies? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 649 Registered: Oct-04 | Did anyone else notice that Axiom seems to be goodsound.com's biggest advertiser? Axiom banners everywhere makes you wonder how unbiased their review of one of Axioms biggest competitors can be. Not a good thing to piss-off your biggest advertiser. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1496 Registered: May-05 | Quinn - Good job of re-directing. Now back to my original question - "Have you ever contributed anything to this forum other than your usual Ascend is the best speaker ever banter?" Well, I'm partially wrong. You've also carried out a bunch of personal attacks. Arrogant people? You really need to look in the mirror more often. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1450 Registered: Jun-05 | Well,Quinn I see you are digging yourself bigger hole,everyone on this forum knows where i stand with speakers if their good their good,regardless if im selling them or not,im not on here to promote anything for myself,I promote what I thinks is good it doesent matter who its from.You Ascend guys have this we are aginst the world attitude which is ugly just like your speakers are,DFs philosphy towards other speakers is stupid and it takes the fun away from this great hobby,attributes which he has passed along to his customers,which is you guys.The funny thing about it my position hasnt changed I still think that DF is a a$$hole the way he came on here and tryed to flex his little muscles like he owned the joint,and he didnt any shame in doing so,showed his true character,the same character most of you Ascend guys have.None of the ID brands I will never carry,for 1 they already have their method of selling which is the internet,you would think that you would know that considering that your a ID customer.If I could sell Onix I would be quite proud to do so,because they make a excellent product,and a few other ID brands that would to,but Ascend just wouldnt be one of them and it isnt anything personal at you guys or your God DF,they just dont move me the way other speakers do,and they are horrible looking. Speakers that sell at that price have no buisness looking like boom boxes from Panasonic from the mid 80s with detachable speakers,back before DF came on here ranting I had never heard Ascend and you cant find one post that I said anything bad them,because I would never judge a speaker without hearing it.Seeing that your trying to say that im working for some ID brand is totally rediculous,many people that sale retail and are into the audio industry have different gear than their store carries,this just proves that you may be dumbest person on all the audio forums.Many people on this forum knew I bought speakers while i was at the Audio store i was at,that wasnt what we carried,and i even reviewed Tims speakers and took them to work with me,you have life twisted,and pathetically so when it comes to the audio,in absolute terms,your a trolling moron! |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1046 Registered: May-05 | Well OK with the whole let's me civil and still agree to disagree stuff. Quinn is way out of line, especially when he accuses T-Man of intellectual and audio dishonesty. But T-Man, I think you really need to be careful with the whole "You Ascend guys" thing and the remainder of your rant as you attribute all kinds of thoughts, emotions and misconduct to DF, myself, Eddie and others who like the Ascend products but also listen to and review other things, ebecause your diatribe paints just as nasty and unfair a portrayal as the one that Quinn just dropped on you. Hey, I like my Ascends for what I'm using them for in an HT system. Had I heard and purchased the Emmas first, I suspect that I'd be running 4 Emmas and something from Tim as a center. BUT then, I probably wouldn't have bothered with getting my ALs reconed and I wouldn't have picked up the Fisher amp. So, I'd still have one system doing everything and that one system would sound pretty dang good but my stereo sound would not compete with what I've got now. I'd be moderately happy and probably into this whole audio thing a few $1000 less. But, the Ascends are great speakers at their price point. I happen to like accurate highs and mids and I can live with a subwoofer doing the grunt work on the bottom end and the "ugly" cabinets which I would describe more as plain than ugly. (Ugly happens to be in now BTW, have you not seen "Ugly Betty.") LOL So much for civil dialogue and discussion, it must be the political season because even this forum has gone to attack ads. Well, I'm outta here guys, at least for the moement. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1455 Registered: Jun-05 | Your right David,Im gonna be more civil about this,even though this Quinn character sure wont be,and you already know that i respect you and Eddies love for your Ascends,but im sorry David i feel the way i feel about DF,and I cant help that,but the way I feel about the Ascends sound is not personal.They are very accurate,I just dont find them musical,and at their price they should look better,you good Ascend owners deserve a speaker with a nice finish,and the David,where the hell is Eddie at? |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 701 Registered: Oct-04 | Yeah, Where's Eddie? |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1456 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris,have you ever heard Axiom?If you heard them especially considering you have been listning to your Missions which have the British sound you would not like the Axioms,they are very bright and foward,the author made it like the X-LS sounded like the Axioms sonic signiture,and I saw the review with all the Axiom banners,that alone and the way he described the Onix sound is total ludacris,it was deffinately a screw job by Goodsound,I call it like I see it,the conflict of interest is plain to see. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1457 Registered: Jun-05 | Chris,have you ever heard Axiom?If you heard them especially considering you have been listning to your Missions which have the British sound you would not like the Axioms,they are very bright and foward,the author made it like the X-LS sounded like the Axioms sonic signiture,and I saw the review with all the Axiom banners,that alone and the way he described the Onix sound is total ludacris,it was deffinately a screw job by Goodsound,I call it like I see it,the conflict of interest is plain to see. |
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Silver Member Username: ExerciseguyBrooklyn, NY USA Post Number: 702 Registered: Oct-04 | T, Can't say I've ever heard Axioms and there absolutely seemed to be a conflict if interest. Did you ever look into the Mission distribution business I mentioned a while back, or is that out of your league? positive-feedback.com is doing a review sometime in the near future on the Mission M31i, forget the fact that the Mission speakers are no long available in the USA (except closeouts). Go figure? I doubt I will ever favor a speaker that does not replicate the "British sound", if your not a karaoke DJ, what the hell else is a quality speaker supposed to do if not create a huge, accurate, powerful soundstage?...just like the M32i, damn I love those $175 speakers. Oh yeah, did you read the latest issue of afforableaudio.com ? Nice reviews of Tim's Arias & the Onix SP3. |
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Gold Member Username: T_bomb25Dayton, Ohio United States Post Number: 1458 Registered: Jun-05 | Yeah the other night i went thru all the reviews on Affordable Audio,good stuff especially the old vintage reviews.Chris im gonna try and find out about Missions distribution,I thought IAG America was supposed to have them the same people who have Wharfedale and Quad.If this is the case this will be about the 4th time that Mission doesent have a distributor in the states,it happened about 8 years ago when I used to work at H.H. Gregg,when we used to carry them,thats a shame they make some damn good speakers, I can think of many other companies that I wish didnt have a distributor in N.America. |
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