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Bronze Member Username: UnderarockMilwaukee, WI USA Post Number: 21 Registered: Oct-06 | All right, I've heard a couple of speakers locally, and I'm not impressed. Not having a car, I don't have the chance to travel all around the area to the few shops that feature "high-end" speakers. Given that limitation, I've read some reviews on a few speakers that really sound interesting to me, and are available via direct sales from the mfr. As I've mentioned in my previous posts (and probably should put in my profile), my current set up of working gear includes a Sansui 8900ZDB 125 w/ch receiver, and a Sony CD jukebox (400 capacity, only 90 used at this point). I also have a couple of turntables (not hooked up, yet) -- an inexpensive belt-drive affair from Radio Shack, and an older Technics direct-drive changer in the basement (but does have an excellent cartridge). The music I normally listen to is jazz, late 60s/ early 70s guitar rock (Santana, Beck, Hendrix), and quite a bit of classical (Mozart, Vivaldi, Handel Bach, Beethoven, etc.). Oh, and the room in question is 12x15, approximately, and a pretty bright environment (hardwood floors, wooden bookshelf and wooden entertainment center, no rugs). The spaakers probably will be on top of the entertainment center (it's pretty low). I also have a pair of 25-year old EPI 2-ways (one speaker now blown), and a pair of 15 year old BA floorstanders, one speaker blown, and a backup amp, an Onkyo 90 w/ch (also probably 20 years old). The speakers in question are: . Alegria Ling -- possibly too small? . Alegria Emma -- are they worth it? Maybe. . Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 -- good reviews . Ascend Acoustics E340 -- are they worth the price? Not being an audiophile, I'd probably be happy with any of these for now, but which will stand the test of time? Granted, only the individual listener can determine that for himself/herself, but any experiences you may have would be appreciated! Thank you. underarock |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 205 Registered: Apr-06 | I guess my first question is what did you listen to, and what did you not like about them? Now for a few notes. With the exception of the Emma, all of the above mentioned speakers would really benefit from a subwoofer to fill in the lower frequencies. Ling: Might do the job; but given that you've said previously you do like to push the volume from time to time, I would hesitate to push you in that direction. Emma: A few caveats to mention here. 1: They don't like to be near a rear wall; two feet is the suggested minimum to avoid losing bass resolution. 2: While not as volume limited as the Ling would appear to be, they aren't Cerwin Vegas. On the plus side, they present an easy load for amplifiers. Can't say I have any experience with the Ascend speakers however. |
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Bronze Member Username: UnderarockMilwaukee, WI USA Post Number: 22 Registered: Oct-06 | Thank you for your insights, Stephen (sorry for misspelling your name in the past!). Well, I heard the Monitor Audio RS-1 (?), and they sounded way too "forward" for me. They had them hooked up to a McIntosh amp, so that might have had something to do with it. I also listened to two other speakers at that shop -- one bookshelf sized, and the other was a floorstander. The bookshelf pair was from Definitive Audio (not sure exactly which model), and they seemed kind of flat and lacking personality, which maybe isn't a bad thing, given they were in a "warmer" environment that what I have. The floor standing speakers were a smaller set from Boston Acoustics, again I didn't catch what the model was -- they were trying to get rid of them, anyway. They were much too boomy, not nearly as good as mine used to be (sniff!). Granted, the salesman was quite aware I was a "low-end" customer, with a commission to match. I was not pleased with his attitude. In the ideal world, I should visit all the shops available to me, but lacking transportation most of the time, it's not practical. While my sister doesn't mind driving me around once a week, I find it difficult to impose on her time (she is a married lady, after all!). Maybe I'll impose on her one more time, before making a final decision. With regard to the speakers mentioned, Emmas being two feet out from a back wall would pose a bit of a problem, but I possibly could work it out, some way. That is a disadvantage, though. Maybe, the Lings would do the job, as long as I stay sober! I can always hook up my headphones, otherwise... Thanks again! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3592 Registered: Feb-05 | "Granted, the salesman was quite aware I was a "low-end" customer, with a commission to match. I was not pleased with his attitude." That sucks! A customer is a customer and should always be treated with respect. Granted we all have to make a living but if bringing the joy of music to folks has no intrinsic value to them they should get out of the business. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 206 Registered: Apr-06 | "The bookshelf pair was from Definitive Audio (not sure exactly which model), and they seemed kind of flat and lacking personality, which maybe isn't a bad thing, given they were in a "warmer" environment that what I have. " There is always the old saying of take home what impresses you the least. While some things jump out at you in a showroom, they are likely to become a nuisance over time. If you are interested in the Internet direct route, the Ascend 170 coupled with a subwoofer (say the HSU STF-1), wouldn't be a bad combo, and would weigh in at a little under 650 before shipping + taxes. They have a lot of satisfied users obviously, but it just depends on whether or not you are willing to take that risk of having to ship them back. Some other speakers worth mentioning are from NHT. They make sealed speakers which aren't quite as crummy as Emma is about being placed near a rear wall. However, the matter of auditioning is an issue, but they can typically be found online from sites like audioadvisor.com. I would also suggest perhaps looking into the Cambridge Soundworks line, specifically at their Model Six speaker. At $150 a pair, it obviously lacks some of the traits of the more expensive speakers that you are looking at, namely imaging and soundstaging (the ability to pick off the location of an instrument). However, it does offer quite a bit for the price, namely excellent tonal balance, easy to drive, and respectable bass depth (which is easy to place, again thanks to an acoustic suspension design). I owned a pair of them for ~5 years or so, and while no they aren't an audiophile speaker in the strictest sense, A: you don't claim to be one, and B: they're price/performance is pretty darned good. |
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Bronze Member Username: UnderarockMilwaukee, WI USA Post Number: 23 Registered: Oct-06 | Stephen, again thanks for your advice! Perhaps, for now the Cambridge route might be the best, or some other "acoustic suspension" design. Both my EPIs and the Boston Acoustics that I do have are acoustic suspension, as well. So, are you saying that acoustic suspension designs, at least in the "lower" price catagory (< $600), are better in cases where room geography pose a limitation? And that the ported designs in that category, while offering superior imaging and presence, do so at the expense of overall bass response, unless placed in precise locations? Forgive me if I misunderstood. Maybe I can swing CBM170 and subwoofer. Decisions, decisions, decisions! |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 207 Registered: Apr-06 | "And that the ported designs in that category, while offering superior imaging and presence, do so at the expense of overall bass response, unless placed in precise locations?" No; the Model Six specifically was designed to be a budget loudspeaker (by a man who was a legend at making budget loudspeakers), and because of various tradeoffs made in its design, doesn't image particularly well. The NHT models will not suffer that drawback, but their pricing is higher as a result. In regards to ported versus sealed/acoustic suspension designs though, sealed speakers *tend* to be more accurate in bass, at the expense of output. They also *tend* to have less bass roll off for more extension. Because of this, they *tend* not to be very boomy when placed closer to the rear wall. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 208 Registered: Apr-06 | "Sealed vs. Ported Enclosures It's easy to overlook the role of the speaker box, or enclosure, but without one you'll generally get very little bass. Enclosures come in a pretty bewildering array of sizes, shapes, and finishes, but all of them perform the same basic task of containing and sometimes rerouting the sound that radiates from the backs of the drivers, especially the woofers. Most enclosures fall into one of two basic categories: sealed (acoustic-suspension) and ported (bass-reflex). Acoustic-suspension woofers depend on the pressure of the air in the sealed enclosure to provide a very linear (and thus low-distortion) restoring force. Ideally, all the sound radiation from the woofer's back is contained and dissipated within the box. Bass-reflex speakers, on the other hand, have a port, or hole, in the box that's tuned to a frequency that will allow some of the sound coming off the back of the woofer to reinforce the bass output from the front. There are many variations on the ported-enclosure theme, including passive-radiator, bandpass, and transmission-line designs. A passive radiator is a diaphragm (usually a cone) that looks like a woofer but is not driven by the electrical signal from an amplifier. Instead, it responds to the back wave from the woofer. Like an open port, it is tuned to a frequency that will reinforce the deep-bass output from the front of the woofer. Bandpass enclosures have multiple ports, one of which is often inside the box, communicating between internal chambers. A transmission-line enclosure, on the other hand, has a defined path (often a folding tunnel) from the back of the woofer to the port that is filled along its length with sound-absorbing material. Although each type of enclosure has adherents among engineers and enthusiasts, any of them can yield excellent results. It's a matter of what works best to achieve a particular set of design objectives. For a shopper, however, one thing to keep in mind about any ported speaker is that it will require at least a little "breathing room" around the port. If a speaker has a port on its back panel, for example, don't jam it back against a wall, inadvertently sealing off the opening." http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/resources/858/resource-center-speakers-page2.ht ml A slightly better explanation. |
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Gold Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 1301 Registered: Apr-05 | I have a different suggestion. If you are lacking transporation, you may want to hop on the train and come down to the Union station in Chicago on a Saturday morning. There is an Audio Consultant store on Randolph west of Halstead which is actually within walking distance. They should have a good selection for you to listen to. Then you may want to catch a cab to the red line up to Belmont stop and go check out the Saturday Audio Exchange store. They are literaly right off the track. I'm sorry that particular MA speakers didn't impress you, but perhaps their R6 series will. They are on sale at about half the retail price right now. If not they also have other ones to listen to. If you are still game for more, there is a Promusica store on Clark street south of Fullerton. It's not far from Saturday Audio Exchange, but in a cold day you may want to catch a cab. Any way altogether you will spend a fun not too expensive day in Chicago and hopefully you can hear and be impressed with something you can purchase. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1480 Registered: May-05 | Rock - "Well, I heard the Monitor Audio RS-1 (?), and they sounded way too "forward" for me. They had them hooked up to a McIntosh amp, so that might have had something to do with it." The Mac had absolutely nothing to do with it. If anything, Mac has been criticized for being too laid back. I haven't heard Monitor Audio enough to form an honest opinion about them, but I can assure you it wasn't the Mac. So we're all on the same page, what's your definition of 'forward?' |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1481 Registered: May-05 | Also... Great advice Stof |
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Bronze Member Username: UnderarockMilwaukee, WI USA Post Number: 24 Registered: Oct-06 | Stu, thanks for your reply. By forward, maybe I just meant it seemed like the midrange was a bit strong for my tastes, and the bottom seemed a bit weak. I wasn't expecting subwoofer type bass, but it seemed a little underwhelming. Perhaps this is common in bookshelf type speakers like the RS1(?). Maybe I was just expecting more for over $500 a pair. And possibly the music they chose (no, I did a bad thing in not having my own CDs along!) wasn't that familiar to me, so maybe it was just the recordings. The Definite Technologies speakers were probably flatter, upon reflection, but just didn't seem to do anything for me. Hey, I'm still very new at this game! |
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Bronze Member Username: UnderarockMilwaukee, WI USA Post Number: 27 Registered: Oct-06 | Another thought. If I teamed the Alegria Lings with a subwoofer, could that work? I'm not sure of the sensitivity of the Lings, so would I have to worry about the type of subwoofer I'd team with it? And does it matter whether it's a downward firing sub or a front firing sub? And would the fact that the sub is "offloading" some of the responsibility of producing lower frequencies help the overall output of the Lings? This is all assuming that the Lings may not have enough "bottom" for my tastes. Damn, this stuff can be confusing. But I'm trying! |