Archive through August 16, 2006
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3376 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi Rav. I kinda get the feeling that you work like I do, with the same results; no good deed goes unpunished. I know Art a little bit and I know that is his regimen as well. The light at the end of the tunnel is a train, it seems. Anyhow, yes indeed, the transDAC is coming to me. I am going to run the info past the factory today, to see if there is anything to be aware of. In fact, the shop has the CA200 amp and the preamp CP50 as well. The whole thing was traded in by the first owner for a simaudio setup. List price 4 years ago was 13k for the lot. 4300$ for me now. I'm going to take the lot. After I sort out the pc end of things I will run this kit for a while with my Psb speakers before deciding if I want new ones. The same shop has Psb Stratus Gold pair, which would be more appropriate for my tastes. But, man, the B&W 703's would surely love that Classe power! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 31 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, Congrats! Now you have me thinking of Rogue Audio M - 120 Monoblocks. (another one of those deals too good to pass up) |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3377 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Mike. I ain't 100% sold just yet, as the shop is having their contract tech look into the pre, which has a slight buzz in one balanced output. At the same time, the tech is going to open all the cases and clean and scope all the goodies for compliance, included in the deal. Warranty will be 90 days on the repaired preamp, none on the others. I'm gonna call Classe today for the lowdown ans warranty info, if one can be purchased, and maybe find out about factory servicing to validate a new warranty. Odd thing, though. The back panel is labelled as 'Made in the USA'. ??? The website www.classeaudio.com does not list these items at all. I need to find out about that, as well. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 177 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, You summed up my work situation quite well :-) Oh man! There's got to be a better way. I am hoping the cycling/running will increase the blood flow to the cerebral cortex, and I will devise an effective escape plan, one that still lets me pay the bills, and drop the corporate wh-o-res that pray upon our flesh. This will take me a while (perhaps 1 year from now), but the mid life career change beckons to me.... Back to hifi: Sounds very good, hope that the buzz in the pre-amp is a simple problem that the tech can get fixed. Also good work on your part, to check out the history of the units straight from Classe'. Also I think it is a very good idea to run the Classe' equipment with your existing speakers. I think you will be very pleasantly surprised. The new electronics should form a pretty good beach-head, and you can consolodate and move forward from there. (But again, I think you'll have fun even with your current speakers.) (I was extremely surprised what my humble NAD speakers could do when powered by my current AVi amp. So much so, that I don't feel that I can currently justify $3000AUD for a pair of Focus 140's (not enough of an upgrade). I plan to re-wire the NADs internally with Kimber cable, and fit Mundorf M-cap supremes in the crossover, and then see what gives!!! Down the line I think I may spend my $3000AUD on some pre-loved or ex-demo speakers like a Dyn Contour S1.3se (a real beaut' of a speaker).). cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3386 Registered: Dec-04 | I hear ya Rav. Those Dyn's are a beast to pay for, much like Art's ProAc's. The payback might be immediate, but the payment comes first. None cheaper here in Canada. Totems are very expensive, with rainmakers oming close to 7k, I think. The Classe kit should do very well(I hope), gotta wonder who had the $ to trade it in outright, at a 70% loss for the sim kit! I continue on the phones and the web, I need to know that everything is right. Again, I am buying unhead, but the shop will send the gear along for a 2 week trial, no problem. That is what a good shop does, and these guys are very good. A good shop is worth a thousand(or more) of my words, these guys back it up. Sweeeeeeeeeeet! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 32 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, I detect some caution in you last post with the "Made in the USA" and not finding the items on the website. Often if the product is one or two rev levels or generations past you may not find a history on the company's site but a web search engine may help with the validation. Just make sure that you do not end up with a street corner Rolex. It does not appear that you have too much to worry about though... Funny that may be the time to be most careful.  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3388 Registered: Dec-04 | Wanna buy a watch? No these guys are not wearing raincoats with long sleeves. They had not noticed the USA tag either, until I pointed it out. I am running the sn's now to be sure. It's all out of warranty now, but more info makes me happier. I will post. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3391 Registered: Dec-04 | The DAC runs with a clock from Ultra Analog(no model) and Classe has no notes or upgrade for that one. Note; Another guy online has tried a phantom oscillator as a clock as opposed to an elemental oscillator with some success. Opinions? |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 178 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, glad to hear that the shop are standing behind the product they sell. Good stuff!!! BTW as an aside, I think Totem uses Dynaudio woofers and bass/mid drivers for their speakers. Also on the ProAc's, Art has good taste in speakers, I have never heard a ProAc that I did not like. Also on the clock in the Classe DAC I have not heard of Ultra Analog, is this a standared OEM fit item, or has the DAC been upgraded with after-market parts? In any case so long as the clock is good, and has been correctly fitted (in the case of after-market hot-up parts), all should be well. (In my Sony XA-5ES CDP, I have an LC-Audio X03 clock + PSU. The improved clocking made fundamental changes in every single aspect of the sound of the player: imaging / soundstage, better vocal projection, much more tuneful and firmer bass, sweeter treble, better instrumental separation......) cheers Rav PS I have noticed that Onkyo Integra Research use an Apogee clock for their RDV1.1 universal disc player. This is the first time, that I have seen an big maker use a smaller company for an OEM clock module. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3454 Registered: Feb-05 | Totem does use Daynaudio mid-bass drivers in their upper end models like the Model 1. Totems are very nice speakers I was quite impressed. Thanks Rav about the ProAcs. I feel like you do I haven't heard one yet that I didn't like. I am really surprised that no one commented on the fine write up by skareb on his audition of ProAc speakers and subsequent purchase. Nuck, hope the Classe thing is goin' ok. The musical reward should be coming soon. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3405 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks,Art. This shop does have a lot of Dyn's and I asked about the drivers and ProAc's over the phone yesterday. He confirmed the wide use of Dynaudio drivers and their very loyal and well deserved following, particularly the ProAc pieces. I could not comment much on skareb's post as I have not heard any of the line. I liked the Dynaudio 140's and at 3500 or something, I well should. The prices are very high on those, and I know the ProAc's are similar. They seem like a turbo lotus of old. Should ANY 4 cylinder cost this much? |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 183 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, nice automotive analogy!! For myself, I do not feel that I want to spend THAT much money on a pair of Focus 140's, even though I quite like them. Also when I went for a demo of the 140's, the pair on demo were very new, so they were totally obliterated by a pair of well run in Contour S1.4. The demo was performed using my own AVi, amp which I put in its box, and lugged it out of the car into the dealer's demo room. Frank has commented that he feels a well run in 140 is better than the Contour S1.4. Well if he is correct in this observation, I would feel that the Focus 140 would need to make an absolutely massive transformation in its performance during the break in period. Also during the demo the Contour S1.4 was producing massively deeper bass than the Focus 140. (In fact Frank critised the S1.4 for its obviously 'ported' sound in the bass registers.) But, I must say it sounded good to my ears!!! I have yet to re-visit the dealer, I cannot get motivated, since it takes time to disconnect the AVi, box it, and then lug it to the dealer (its quite heavy!). Also in purely physical terms, the S1.4 seemed better value. The S1.4 costs $4800AUD, and the F-140 $3000AUD. Now the cabinet on the S1.4 is absolutely rock solid, and very well finished. When judged purely as a static object, and knowing nothing of the prices, I would have said the S1.4 is worth atleast twice the price of the F-140. But I am going to bide my time, and I hope that perhaps a second hand Contour S1.3se comes along. For me the Contour S1.3se is the Dynaudio to own. Then you can sit back for a long long time and enjoy the music. The only other Dyn I like, is the Anniversary 25 model, but that is extremely pricey!! But I'll keep my eyes open. Other than that I would like the Yamaha NS1000X, but these are extremely rare, and I think it would take a trip to Japan to find a pair. I do see NS1000M's for sale, but the problem is that in most markets, the NS1000M was used by pro's as full range studio monitors. So for the most part, NS1000M's tend to have lived a hard life. ciao Rav |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3455 Registered: Feb-05 | I agree Rav the contour range is where Dyn's really get interesting. The Focus range is very nice as well. Dyn's are not at all tube friendly that's why I passed on them. I had an opportunity to buy demo 1.3's for just a whisker over the price of the Focus 140's. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3406 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, once again, Rav. I am going to run the new system together for a while and get the digital files sorted out before looking into speakers. I am rather enamoured of the Revel lineup(thanks Art) and their pricing, which seems so very reasonable. Revel Concerta 12's, Kef iq9, and, yes, the B&W 703's are out there.(Still have a chubb for the 703's). The new gear opens a lot of doors, but could close some, if ego and selfcentracy of the system overtake me(I should surely hope not!) I have the sound card rec's in hand, like 250$ will accomplish the best card and sortware.Not bad! I have yet to sort the cabling issue as well, ut I will leave that beast to sleep a while yet. The trand to Dac is already a good one(upgraded) but the rest is stock for now. I know the importance of proper cabling quite well, but making house payments rates up there as well! The focus with the new system is going to be the room. I have read a little, but know nothing, and have a beastie of a room to tame. The chap at Classe is a very perky type, fresh off of a course in rooms and such, and he invited me to send along a layout, etc. for him to look at. Very good! I have tended to shy away from doing the same here, as it might seem a freebie, and Jan would inevitably(and correctly) send me to good sites to learn and discern on my own. To admit to having little time would be a cheapout, to admit limited understanding and potential for such would be more accurate, so I have not done so yet. An invite from a member would spur me to post this most bizarre of environs. There is the whole thing so far, how I have carried on. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8850 Registered: May-04 | . If you'll take the time to learn and discern, I'll take the time to answer whatever questions I can manage. Whoever said there are no stupid questions hasn't seem some that pop up on eCoustics. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3410 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Jan, and anyone else who might hop in. I have a basic understanding of primary and secondary harmonics, wave amplitude and frequency, but not how to apply the basics to a room. I get the feeling that I have a nasty bit of business here, and will have to compromise a lot(as usual). My primary goal is to control the low frequencies into one manageable wave, filtering or dampening the loose bits that come from the low ceiling, while not interfering with following low frequency waves. The tall amplitude which I expect will be bouncing off of a wooden ceiling@8feet. Cheapo carpet for the moment, sparce decor and bare drywall. Well, painted but unadorned. The teleposts are a lovely feature, useful for 1; holding up the house, and 2; possibly stringing a hammock. I seek the usage to make the nice little layout drawings I have seen here. Little representations of a cooking range,chesterfield and such. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 185 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, if you need any help on cables let me know. I have built some interconnects, using one of the recipies from TNT audio (Piano-1), using Chinese copies of Neutrik RCA plugs. These perform very well once burnt in, but I warn you the solid core conductors plus dual shield (mylar foil + steel braid) is a pig to terminate inside a RCA connector. A table top vice, with rubber covers on its jaws is essential to hold the RCA plug whilst you are soldering. The recipies on TNT are pretty well documented, I am sure once you read them, you'll be fine. Of course let me know if you struggle to find the links. I have only built single ended interconnects, none of the equipment has XLR sockets. (Although my Sony CDP is wired for balanced operation using 2 RCAs per channel. Since the mod shop disabled the variable RCA's and wired them with the -ve feed and ground.) Also I have built mains leads using solid core, and also Supra Lo Rad 2.5. I use a very nice Aussie Clipsal mains plug (very chunky, and pretty with its clear acrylic body!), also I use Chinese counterfeit copies of Japanese Oyaide IEC females. These look nice cost $15AUD and work well for me. I just treat all the surfaces with Caig De-Oxit. Also of course there is also the option of pre-loved cables from well heeled folks with a bad case of upgrade-itis..... |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 186 Registered: Mar-06 | Also when it comes to room tuning, I am an ignoramus, so I cannot help here. But I am lucky enough to have a room that sounds fantastic. Exterior walls are double brick, interior walls are single brick, ceiling is 11ft high, and floor is wood. Reproduced drum kit sounds awesome in this room. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3459 Registered: Feb-05 | Sounds like an awesome place. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3419 Registered: Dec-04 | Well I loaded a room layout program and clunked my way through the stupid thing, then found I could not open the file.DOH! I shall add a Baileys to my coffee and retry. Rav, thank-you, I am most likely to roll my own cables, I have rolled before, but that was a while ago(wink wink). I have the link and will seek the cables, though the ends may be something a little closer to home. Beyond that, The sound card will be a creative labs X-F1, with digital co-ax out of the pc upstairs, linked wireless to network a laptop downstairs. Files are lossless (WMV, I think), and into the DAC1 digital coax. This leaves a toslink for dvd(pcm) layout. I'll need to add the phono section, but thats a ways off yet. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1527 Registered: Sep-04 | I'm horrified that you're going to use a hard disc source. I hope it works. Good luck Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 200 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Frank, why are you worried about using a hard disk? Surely what matters is how the music is stored. If the music is stored as the verbatim PCM from the CD what import does the hard disk have? Now if you were storing the music encoded as MP3/ATRAC/whatever at a low bit rate, then of course this is an issue. I have listened, thanks to a friend, extensively to a Red Wine Audio modified SB3 unit. Where the music was stored uncompressed on a Mac computer, and sent via wifi to the SB3 unit. The SB3 was connected to a very high quality system (Gryphon, and Dynaudio Contour 1.3se), and I can very safely say that the very lightly modded SB3 offers performance way beyond most entry level CD players, eg NAD 542, or Rotel 1072. Now that was using the SB3's internal DAC. But the SB3 can be used just as a wireless media adaptor, so the SPDIF output of the SB3 is connected to an external DAC. Now I am not sure at the moment, how Nuck is getting the data to his Classe' DAC. Perhaps he is using the SPDIF output of the sound card within the PC, using a coax cable? But if this is the case there are many other factors relevant to sound quality, the HD storage really does not come into it. It is the quality of circuitry on the sound card which becomes relevant. There are quite a few good cards out there, like M-audio for example. This is pretty good stuff. And if you are really into hotting things up, you can even upgrade the card with an enhanced clock module. I don't think concerns purely on the usage of HD storage makes sense, there are many other factors affecting the playback. (I am planning to purchase a SB3, but I will go for a fully modded unit. This will include both analog and digital mods to the SB3, and a SLA battery cell power supply. The mods will be done by Red Wine Audio.) In fact most modern music is recorded onto a hard disk, and the disk just becomes nothing more than storage media (like open reel tape, or cassettes, or DAT tape, or CDROMs etc etc). cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3440 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi guys, thanks for keeping up on the issue. Horrified is awfully strong, Frank, I hope some success on my end(and some good links) might mollify your digitalis horribilis to dismayus nuckus. The DAC does work SPDIF, and the soundcard I chose carries such, analog out and coax digital out. The dealer(of course) cares not for the option. However, with the 1072(for now) and the digital option, a fairly good review of the 3 may be just quite in order. How 'bout that? Never crossed my mind till now. Of course, I am in Iowa for a while yet, and the gear won't be ready till I return a week Friday, so as to give the tech all the time he needs. |
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Silver Member Username: Daniel_canadaCanada Post Number: 162 Registered: May-06 | Bleh. Nuck buy a HTIAB. :P |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3476 Registered: Dec-04 | Already had one, Dan. Nad with Monitor Audio speakers. LOL! |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1024 Registered: May-05 | Nuck, I'm reading and lurking. What happened to the tube sound you started on some 100 plus posts back? LOL |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4428 Registered: Dec-03 | Rav, I agree. I've asked a similar question before, here, myself. The reply was the accuracy of the clock was the issue. I still do not see why a bit-for-bit identical file produces different sounds if read from different media, everything else being equal. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3481 Registered: Dec-04 | Dave, if you had been following my testimony like a lawyer for money, you would have dumped me long ago as a client. It's the big ss for me, if lucky, I will pick up the gear this weekend, if I get back to my own country in time. John, all things being equal, no two things are ever equal(I know you know that one!) |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4430 Registered: Dec-03 | No, I didn't know that, Nuck! We need "Definitions and description" back. I do not think it ever covered terms like "jitter" and "error correction". |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4431 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck, "all things being equal, no two things are equal". That is a generalisation. All generalisations are false. Including that one. (I'm sure you know that one!). Good luck and please up date your A/V system profile entry in due course. Except the last part. That's most important. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3495 Registered: Dec-04 | Thank you John, I would not have remembered to do that. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3497 Registered: Dec-04 | Right then, I aquired the goods(sans preamp) and ferried the lot home. First note..the power cords for all the gear are so skinny that if I took them to the beach, even the chicks would kick sand in their faces! This will be rectified if the kit stays. The dealer is not in any particular hurry here(nice) and will give me a couple of weeks to sort it out. For me, that means 3 days, when I am home. The cp-50 will be ready tomorrow, that means another 4 hours round trip, and I am not sure I will sacrifice the time from my precious weekend,though that may change via Mrs. Nuck. I will change out parts tonight, beginning with the amp. I have some decent cords, but will have to butcher the speaker wire from the ceiling to make floor runs.(class act, yes?). I will also try the transDAC but will reserve opinions until further listening, so as not to babble on. Like now. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4435 Registered: Dec-03 | Good luck, Nuck! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3502 Registered: Dec-04 | Well, that did not go well at all. I could not fit the amp onto the present shelf, so I just pulled the whole thing down and wired in the new stuff. That would be the transDAC, H/K avr and Classe amp. It all lit up properly. I used a regular test cd(Dr. Hook's GH)and started slowly. There seems to be no bass. I shut down, got a beer to let it all relax and rechecked everything. The cables are Audio Quest pieces and I retightened them all, one was backwards from the avr to the amp. Try again. Same, in fact possibly even thinner bass. I turned up the bass on the avr and the set-up does respond, but not a lot, then at about 1/2 volume, the amp shut down. It quit. Rats. The amp has always run balanced before today.The avr might not help at all.The cables are new, but chintzy.Dr.Hook has 2 good songs.Well 2 and a half. I suppose I must run back for the preamp and the balanced cables to try again. Rats. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4437 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck, I know you're short of time, but a quick list of components before and after....? This is a bit like Philip with Prima Luna Prologue One question. Lack of bass compared with what....? I know you know about speaker phasing, but it can be easy to get the wires crossed by mistake, in a hurry, or in dim light or an inaccessible location. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3508 Registered: Dec-04 | John, firstly, thank you for following my foibles. I double checked polarity with a battery across the speaker leads and they are correct. However, here is a caveat that I will be taken to task for. The speaker leads have been extended via a solder joint up in the ceiling. I shall say little more than 'Doh!'. I had forgotten this skeleton in the closet until 2 rounds of Gibson's (not the guitar). I will lay some floor runs, as I need to do so anyhow to move the speakers about and try to tame the room a tad. The speakers, over the years have been in every location ceptin' the loo, and have never produced much bass. I have run subs forever, and perhaps have forgotten... I will run Home Depot 12g lamp cord for runs, in equal lengths, and try again. The lamp cord comes from the info here so far that this is as good as anything else. I'll catch heck for that, no doubt. Cheers! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 39 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, The loo? That may be where you get your best bass! Kaboom, Kaboom. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3515 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Mike. My Scottish heritage comes through in times of great stress/opportunity. Do you have any ideas/help? Beyond gastro-intestinal fortitudes, I mean? I may try the Psb stratus golds this aft, so long as I can get them in the car. They are beasties! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 40 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, When I bought my Carver set up it came with speaker wire which the previous user took from a hardware store. It was made for outputs from generators. I guess because he was bridging the Carvers and running 1000W bridged into each speaker he thought it the way to go. When I showed my dealer the wires he just shook his head and told me to throw them away. He said that the wire purity surely would have been questionable and that stranded wire did not make for happy speakers. Solid copper or other element is the better choice. Secondly, when I started utilizing power conditioners / line filters / voltage regulators, better bass was one of the benefits. If I can think of anything else I will weigh in further. Okay, I already thought of one more thing. You wrote " I have some decent cords, but will have to butcher the speaker wire from the ceiling to make floor runs.(class act, yes?)." Are you 100% certain that the speaker wire has not been compromised with a brad or screw, partial broken a snagged kink or anything unsavory like that? |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1683 Registered: Feb-04 | Guys, guys... there's no way swapping a speaker wire will result in going from there was so little bass I shut it down to perfect sound! As for not using stranded wire, I've never heard that one before. If solid core is the way to go, we could all use construction electrical wiring and be done with it. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 41 Registered: May-06 | PG / All - Perhaps there is a bit of misunderstanding. Nuck had tried some reasonable steps to get things working right, and John provided probably the most logical suggestion. Nuck asked if I any ideas and all the good ones were already taken so this is where my thoughts went. My crux of my point was having wire run through a ceiling out of sight. Something could compromise the wire via a short or a break, even while handling the wire to change from in the ceiling to on the floor for example. The fact that Nuck's amp quit made my thoughts go down this path. And like you I had not heard about stranded wire not being a good option until a recent conversation with my dealer. Since I decided to put complete trust in him I am not going to quibble over information he gives me that does not fit my paradigm. Going back to construction wire, I would think that purity and shielding have some play in the conduit, so I will continue to shop at higher end audio shops for whatever connections I use within my system or perhaps buy used from a trusted web resource. Lastly I am not smart enough to lead anyone to a "perfect sound". That is not ever my intention. I am just communicating information that I trust or through experience that has helped advance my sound. However, as Jan as poignantly informed, sometimes the source of my information is flawed, so I am also eager to find where I may have misrepresented anything. Apologies if I have come across overly defensive but I wanted to respond and do not have enough time to manage the tone of my post. P.S. I still use stranded wire in my HT system, but there my quest is not audio nirvana. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8892 Registered: May-04 | . Sir Nuck, you've done got me too confused. The Classe has run balanced? From the outputs of a HK AVR? How is that possible? . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3516 Registered: Dec-04 | Sorry for the muss n fuss, folks, the amp has always run balanced until now, and will again. Presently running single ends from avr to amp. I don't think it has ever run this before, the switch on the back seemed stiff, but functional. Thanks for weighing in, Jan, I thought you had dumped me. For all...see above with my basterdized speaker wire...the old Rotel may not have cared...perhaps the superduper new stuff does. Thanks to all. |
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Silver Member Username: Daniel_canadaCanada Post Number: 163 Registered: May-06 | ...........Already had one, Dan. Nad with Monitor Audio speakers. LOL!...... ownt. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3529 Registered: Dec-04 | Dan, I don't get ownt, but hopfully it is just as funilly sent along as my comment. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 210 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, just catching up on this thread. I am back in the office today, but feeling much better after 2 days of rest! I have received plenty of hatemail from the 'friendly' people I work with, so I am just covertly doing some extra work to defend my honour. I won't dignify their emails with responses, i will only give them productive output. Now reading from your posting: So the switches on the back of the Classe' power amp have been toggled to select the single ended RCA inputs. -Okay this is possibly something to look at if no one has ever used this amp in single ended mode before? Getting your hands on the balanced pre-amp will help answer some obvious questions in this area. But something you said troubled me, you said the Classe' amp, you said "then at about 1/2 volume, the amp shut down". Now the above worries me. Normally I would not worry about the speaker cables, if you have tested that there are no shorts, and the same cables work properly with your Rotel amplifiers. The only thing that is possibly worrying me is in the Classe' amp is possibly sensitive to the type of speaker cables used, like Naim power amps. I am no Naim expert (wish I was!), but some of the higher end Naim amps do not use an output inductor after the power transistors. Naim say the amps sound a heck of a lot better this way, the down-side is the amps are very sensitive to the type of speaker cables used. If the wrong type of speaker cable and the amp will oscillate, not good at all. It is a very long shot but I wonder if the Classe' is similar in this property to the Naims? I just worry 'cos you seem to be saying that the protection circuitry in the power amp was activated? Do I understand correctly? I think some phone calls to the dealer are in order, no doubt you are already on it.... Okay, best of luck, I'll keep watching this thread until there is some resolution. cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3531 Registered: Dec-04 | Rav, thanks for keeping up here, I hope things are in order in your kit. OK, the guy from Classe called me back(Saturday and all) and figgues I need to have all the pieces in place before drawing too many conclusions. Fair enough. I spent a little time on the phone with Art Kyle and he thought about the same, do not be too hasty(with his reservations). The amp did not oscillate at all before shut down. It was ok then zero. This amp has an abundance of protections, but no indication of the issue. The outputs do not use dc feebacks, but a funky iso-circuit deal that I am not apprised of. I will try the whole kit together, although, I am getting a bit leery of the machine's capability to Rock and Roll. And, once again, I appreciate any systems recreatiive abilities, and expect as much for the investment, but if it cannot Rock, it ain't gonna work. Thanks again. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 212 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, I hear ya' It's a big investment, and it must be able to do what you require. (It may be of little consolation to you, but on my side my modded Sony, the AVi and the humble NAD speakers are really making music....it's definitely rockin') With some patience it should be possible to work through these issues, but at the end of the day I agree with you totally. So I take my hat off to you for working with a good dealer, who will take the stuff back if it is wrong for your needs. cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3532 Registered: Dec-04 | The dealer is great, Rav, and if the whole thing goes to hellinahandcart, he is ok with it. After chatting with a coupla friends, I have to go back to what Frank said. 'If you like the Rotel house sound, why change?' I do, and I have an 'in' there. Tough call, I will try all the parts together next weekend. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 213 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, at the moment I guess you just need to work through the problems. I am sorry to hear that this has turned out to be a bit of a headache for you. On the Rotel side, no problem, Rotel is a good company, and they make good gear. Only problem I see in that approach is that you may 'outgrow' the Rotel sound. Since ulitmately there is a performance cap, purely because Rotel gear is affordable equipment, and is owned at the lower end of the spectrum pricewise (and there is nothin' wrong with that). So once you hit that 'glass Rotel ceiling', there is perhaps a tendancy to throw more Rotel's at the system, eg bi-amping, bridging stereo amps to make mono-blocks etc. There is probably some validity in this approach, but it is not the way I would go. In the quality versus quantity trade-off, I would rather sit on the quality side of the fence. But at the moment, one step at the time. It is necessary to determine the root cause of the problems you are experiencing. Du calme..... cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3534 Registered: Dec-04 | Du calme, mon ami. I am not in any hurry, my friend, I want to do this once. The Rotel house sound is one that I like, and the new 380w amp might do the trick. I continue to pound the bricks to find the perfect solution, in the meantime, I appreciate all the help that I get from my friends. Cervasa,amigos! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 42 Registered: May-06 | Ravi, Bravo on some insightful info relative to the Naim / Classe. Also, choice words those; "quality versus quantity trade-off". It is what I wrestle with as I hold dear my plan to bi-amp my speakers with my two Carver M-4.0t's versus venturing into tube amplification. I think you may have hit on something for me. I may be hanging my hat on, so to speak, the quantity of power afforded by my Carvers. But one thing at a time, as I am running a demo of a pair of speakers in my system right now. Nuck, Would it be possible for your dealer to allow you to demo some different speaker wires and ICs to experiment with? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3537 Registered: Dec-04 | Mike, what speakers are you trying? And BTW, nothing says excess like too much power. I happen to believe that great terrifying gobs of power is good. What power outlet(s) will you use for those amps? The Classe is using almost a kilowatt, will the Carvers require a substation nearby? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3538 Registered: Dec-04 | The dealer will let me try anything that is from an opened package, however everything is on a whole week basis, so that might wrench the works a bit. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 43 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, The Anthony Gallo Ref. 3.1s. I really liked the Vandersteen Quatro's better and as the dealer was waiting for used Vandy 3's to become available I was going to go with them as the Quatros are ~$8K. The Gallo Ref. 3.1s are store demos and less than 1/3 the cost of the Quatros. I know I did not care for them much when I first auditioned them, but it was the first speaker he suggested to me. I took a chance that it was amp and cables during the demo that I did not like. So far I am impressed with the speakers. They employ a side firing woofer and I have to set them up with the woofers facing the wall as when they face one another the bass is too heavy (bet you wish you had that problem) and "bumpy". Bass is thinner but more precise in my set-up with the woofers facing the wall. I will post again in "Hierarchically Upgrading My Component" in about a week or so as to how it works out. I seem to have a job similar to yours as I will be in NJ four days this week. As to the power, that is why I have the Monster Home Theatre Automatic Voltage Stabilizer AVS 2000 in my system now. It has a 50 lb. transformer and supplies a constant 120 V no matter how much I ask for. That and the Monster HT 5100 Reference Power Line Conditioner. Amazing what this stuff does for the plasma HDTV picture. I feel like the kid who puts glass packs on his 72 Dodge Charger for the rumble sound and is blown away by the additional 25 HP. I am always trying to improve my audio experience and sometimes the video gets to enjoy the ride. The accompanying photo is from a Stereophile Magazine web review. http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2006/010706gallo/  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3550 Registered: Dec-04 | Mike, I knew it would be the Gallo's, you had mentioned them before, my new dealer carries them and they were paired to a Cary toober...not too impressive. He said the setup was for a customer and he didn't care for it either. The dealers choice was to run the Gallo's on a Bryston 2x6sst setup, mono's at about 400wpc. I just nodded(how could that be bad?). The side fire woofers could be a boom or bust, definately not too near a hard wall. Do they handle the power well? |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 44 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, Yes the speakers do handle the power well, probably better than I do. I have listened to about 6 hours of everything and the LED on the Carver never left the "1" or lowest position and I had enough volume to hear the music very clearly with a solid soundstage.. Then I dropped in the Tool "10,000 Days" CD and tapped the volume up 2 clicks. I finally got to see the 2nd and a flicker of the 3rd LEDs on the Carver. Loud, but not painfully so. (There are 7 LEDs on the Carver.) Some speaker specs; Frequency Response: 34Hz - 35kHz +/- 3dB Frequency Response (active bass): 22Hz - 35kHz +/- 3dB Impedance top terminal : 4 - 8 ohms Impedance lower terminal: 4 ohms Sensitivity: 88 dB/1 watt/1 meter Power Handling: 350 watts RMS I With the 2nd frequency response (in the specs above) means is that I may or may not be able to use my second Carver in a bi-amp mode with these speakers. Gallo makes a Reference 3 SA amplifier rated 240 wpc. I get the impression it is tricky to set up with all of the options to tune it in, but it has the internal crossovers required to drive the 2nd voice coil in the bass to get down to 22 Hz. I am aware that I could buy an outboard crossover then be able to use my 2nd Carver but that I think that could be more costly as Gallo Ref. SA lists for $900. Either way, it remains to be seen how much I value the drop from 35 Hz to 22 Hz. I very much appreciate your conveying your dealer's situation and input on the Gallos. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3554 Registered: Dec-04 | I picked up the pre today, along with a set of balanced cables, but miscounted and am still running single ended from dac to pre. I cut twice and it's still too short. The bass has returned, however I only heard for about 30 seconds, because the amp shut down at 30w or so. I was good till then, but I won't try again until I have more speaker runs. Although I could try the Lings quite easily... The amp is rated to 2ohms, so I must be rather shorted somewhere, or otherwise afflicted, the Rotel just played and played. Odd. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3561 Registered: Dec-04 | With the levels I have played at, I find the bass a bit tough to bet hold of. My problem will be familiar to a bunch of you, but new for me. No bass in the triangularly centered captians chair. Very little in front of them at all, in fact. However, the bass is acceptably good beside, beneth, above, behind and everywhere else. Just not where I need it. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8911 Registered: May-04 | . Move the chair! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3564 Registered: Dec-04 | Co-incidentally, I read my post to Mrs. Nuck, and she said the same thing right away. Sometimes I think too far into things... Will move the speaks around tomorrow after I get some wire. Thanks Jan and Mrs. Nuck for the reminder. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8912 Registered: May-04 | . Great minds ... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3566 Registered: Dec-04 | She said that too... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3601 Registered: Dec-04 | All righty then... I have replaced the speaker leads with regular liberty bi-wire stuff, soldered ends with silver and freshened up everything. Holy-response Batman!!! I now have bass, depth and as much staging as my placement will allow. The loudspeakers have not moved at all, the depth and bass are the best that I have ever had from these! In goes Queen's hits and que up track 10 'now I'm here), its sounding incredibly good. The bass is tight,deep enough, the Queen orchestra is great, so a little twist of volme and...shutdown. Yes, it was fairly loud(OK really loud) but no more than the old Rotel did with Metimucil regularity. I have given this kit all I can in terms of wires and TLC. The amp might just suck. Mrs. Nuck thought it was awfully loud upstairs, but no more so than the old kit. Please remember that this is a 5k investment, once in a lifetime, before y'all get on me for listening too loud(very seldom), or expecting too much. I am not going to buy a Ferrari without running the heck out of it. This one blew a gasket! Rats! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 45 Registered: May-06 | Well Nuck, I really feel for you buddy. You play with your gear the same way I would mine. Better a gasket in the amp than the speakers I would think. If it were me I would curse the amp, curse myself for perhaps doing something stupid, then after going through everything you just did, curse the amp some more. Then have a Scotch. It appears it is time to have your dealer re-work the amp for you. Do you still have the Rotel? I hope that you do so you can continue to use the "liberty bi-wire stuff, soldered ends with silver and freshened up everything" . You may be pleased enough with the sonic change to be patient enough about the Classe being reworked. I am still in NJ happy as a lark for the employment but bemoaning new speakers sitting at home looking over a Fed-Ex box that was delivered today with my refurbished Carver M-4.0t. I think I will see if I can get Marsh (the Mrs. Wodek) off to a hotel or spa or something for Saturday and Sunday so I can properly exercise my system and let y'all know how it goes. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3610 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Mike. Yes, all of the old gear is still patiently waiting to be re-applied. My thoughts yesterday were to just changeout the amp for a quick AB, but I decided to just have a scotch and listen sommore at less than ear bleeding levels. The kit really is quite good. And unforgiving. As expected, if a poor(or just bad) recording is used, the kit really adds to the lack of quality, seemingly adding a bit of nastiness in an effort to dissuade the listener from carrying on. Although the appearance of the gear is minimalist at best, I swear that when spinning "MU, the best of Jethro Tull" the kit looked like a cat having smoke blown in its face. Quite dour and a bit repulsed. However,a better selection was had with Clapton Unplugged.The recording itself might not make Tim's thread of finest recordings, but the gear seemed to allow the recording to do it's thing. The sound displayed the depth that I love, while not overdoing the soundstage(speaker placement again). If my terminology is correct, I revere the quality of depth over staging. The transDAC is particularly pleasant for this disc. Timing and pace are as accurate as Eric is himself. I found myself nearly hearing the air moving as the Journeyman's hand was sweeping close to the strings. The anticipation of each note was evident, and quite entertaining to be heard for the first time. These ramblings are from yesterdays listening, but as I am on holiday this week, I have time to try sommore speaker positions(and maybe my chair!), and call Classe ad some dealers to get a grip on the amp clipping/shutdown. Mike, I really want to read how the redone amp works. From down in the swamps of Jersey...Bruce |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 46 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, Clapton unplugged provided me a delightful experience with my set-up. When listening to it on a set up twice the cost of mine I heard Clapton center stage with guitar #2 slightly behind and to the right. With my set-up (old amp) Clapton appears left of center as I face the stage and a few feet and away and about 5 feet back, right of stage is guitar #2. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3623 Registered: Dec-04 | off to Tim's thread I go, with verifying backup. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3633 Registered: Dec-04 | So after a half days natter on the phone with Classe(B&W), Psb(useless) and the dealer(will open the case to check a few bits), it looks like the amp is either under spec or over hyped. Rats. Neil Young Unplugged is rather good as well. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 47 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, My reaction would be stronger than "Rats". How are you ever going to enjoy, GnR, Tool, Sabbath? What is the ventilation like for your equipment? How warm is your room? How hot does the amp get just before it decides it needs a nap? I sense that I am grasping a bit here, but I had an older PC that just ran like a tank. Now that I have a tank of a PC I have had to buy additional fans for it, lower the AC in the house and invest in cans of compressed air. Just to explain why I got off on this environmental track. My experience is that environment affects different devices in varying ways. Oh yeah, have the dealer crank it up and see it pop goes the weasel. Sorry couldn't help myself there. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1437 Registered: May-05 | Mike - It's good to know that I'm not the only Tool and Sabbath fan around here. I just got your PM yesterday. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Edison. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3635 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey Mike. The humidistat says 63% and 70f for the temp. The amp is only 'warm' to the touch, warmer directly over the transformers, never hot. The dealer/owner is quite concerned over the events thus far, much more so than me. This figgures, as he only has a 20%down on the stuff! Honestly, the guys there are great, and share my concern over the 'clipping' issue. Again, I re-iterate, the thing is MASSIVELY loud prior to shutdown. Tool, not so very much, Sabbath yessireeBob! Gave a spin of New York Dolls for the kids, they could not believe it. Sum41 ain't bad for a cheap punk outfit. When I brought home American Idiot our daughter looked at me like I had 10 heads. Kid, I was spinning punk when it was new. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 215 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, just catching up on your thread... I am not sure if I understand fully, but something was wrong with the speaker cabling (?). Since you state after introducing new speaker cables, you finally got bass from your Classe' set up. (Okay I am a little puzzled, but cannot argue with the facts. ) Glad to hear you are finally getting some good sounds from this setup. Also glad to hear that the dealer is pulling his weight in terms of looking closely at the Classe' power amp. Interesting reading, thanks for taking the time for sharing your experiences with this new (to you) equipment. cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3652 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Rav. Yeah the speaker leads were a huge improvement. They were awful all along, I just didn't know it. I left the gear on all night and played normal wife friendly volume all morning. Man, is this such a sweet sounding kit! Fully heated(the sink measured 177f) I tried the amp again, this time Colin James-Sudden Stop., track2 Just came back, and the amp did the same protect. Again, I must state that the thing was at 38 out of 60 on the loudmeter. I will drop off the amp on Sunday, the dealer will meet me at the store. I really like these guys. As well, i tested the noise floor on the kit yesterday, wide open, no load. Absolute dead silence. I figgur the circuits to be open with no load, so I tried the trans on pause and opened it up again. Dean silent, with my ear at the speakers. Unless the gear disconnects without active load, this is the absolutely lowest floor noise that I have ever heard. With the before mentioned track, transitions are fast and accurate, the recording is really on and off for the effect of Colins guitar, and just below the shutdown thing the rolloff to brief silence is rather astounding. I have to think that a lot of caps are giving their all. It all works startlingly well. Again, when the amp turtles, the volume is tremendously high, and screaming quality. If I get more power from the kit, pray for the neighbors if I slip when drunk(nawwwww) and really let it go. Pop go the speakers, no doubt. The Rotel smoked to tweet XO's and the resistors have been upgraded, with this kind of oomph, it couls get ugly. Book on the amp says 200, 400, 800 into dimishing impedances, the tech at Classe says 200,325,450. It is enough. Did you survive your project closure? |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 50 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, Tomorrow I will post on Hierarchically Upgrading My Components as to how it is coming with my refurbished Carver. Peter Galbraith send me a PM should you want specific information as the what the refurbishment entailed. The reason I think you may want to know is that when I wired only the speaker cables to the amp and turned it on I had a serious hiss on the left speaker and a noticeable hiss on the right speaker. I turned off the amp and connected the RCAs and dead silent. I turned on the pre-amp waited for the warmup stage and then turned it all of the way up. Nothing, dead silent. I had to look again to see if I remembered to turn the amp back on. It was. I called the repairman about the hiss without the RCAs connected but he said it is to be expected. He explained why, though I did not understand. All I know is that it needs RCAs in for it not to hiss. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3664 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey copy me on that one will ya? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3665 Registered: Dec-04 | Mike, I happened to be in a sportsbar on Wednesday last, they were showing a bowling tourney from your town. This is notable only because I saw your hometown on the screen. I think I saw a cousin or 2, good lookin' crowd, at a texis bowling tourney. I really hope you find this as funny as I did, I tilted one for ya! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 52 Registered: May-06 | Will do Nuck. What's even funnier? "texis" ROFLOL |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3670 Registered: Dec-04 | Doh! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1534 Registered: Sep-04 | A low noise floor is nice to have, but it's not the be-all and end-all. For example, Naim amps hiss - even the big ones. They also hum occasionally when the mains is dirty (the toroidal transformers pick up the hum and start vibrating). The question is whether or not the kit does it for you, and it seems that it does. Glad to hear you have such a good dealer Nuck! regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3710 Registered: Dec-04 | Thannk you Frank. I heard nothing amiss from the kit so far. I will be the weekend next when I get the amp back from the shop, the lad there seems to have repaired a hum in the balanced circuit with a ground repair that was recommended from the factory before he opened the case. They are not Classe dealers anymore, they were before 2001, but the same fellow does the service now, as then. As well that issue was found before I had the unit. Quite good. I will take the upcoming weekend(a long one for me) to swap out the amp first, and see how the old Rotel words by comparison, thenonto the player. It could be quite enlightening! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3727 Registered: Dec-04 | I have wired the Rotel 985 amp into the kit today so as just to have a bit of music from downstairs(as opposed to the other stereos). Observance #1-It does not sound right. The sounds are there, but forced,strained,not at all subtle. #2-The volume knob is very touchy, input voltage I suspect. The Rotel is rip rarin' to go at half volume, and I detected clipping shortly after. The speakers did not bottom, but not far off. Full extension. #3-more bass. Again I suspect the hyper-volume knob, as I have not tried the Classe at upper registers. #4-After hearing the Classe kit,with balanced conn's(not for the Rotel), nothing else comes close, even my favorite, the Rotel. I have yet to try the cdp1072 in the mix, but will, after I get a more solid grip on the Rotel amp/Classe pre-kit. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3728 Registered: Dec-04 | The dealer also carries the full line of Shanling gear...it is all rather nice!http://www.shanling.com/STP-80.htm Maybe overpriced at 2k cdn, with '34 tubes, but nice. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 228 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, glad to hear the dealer has adressed the pre-amp's hum problem with a recommended fix from Classe'. Also, perhaps I am not fully up to speed, but will the dealer now be looking into the problems you experienced with the power amp shutting down at high levels? Also are you still using the trans-DAC? (I get the impression that the Classe' source was an un-qualified success?) cheers Rav P.S. I never answered your question about my work project. I have not yet returned to work, so the dust is still settling. I will know better what's happening in about 8 days time, when I return to the fray. P.P.S. I have not tried by new (Contour 1.3se Dyn's yet!!!!) |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3757 Registered: Dec-04 | Rav, the dealer has the amp and will have for another week.The Rotel is filling in ok. The transDAC is going to stay no matter what, and in fact I spec'd a new computer yesterday with Creative Labs sound card, intending to run a coax down to the kit for the Great File Playing Experiment. http://www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&prod uct=14065 I picked up a Monster power bar/conditioner at Target hifi as well, have not plugged it in, game called on account of beer. Probably explains my rather thick head this am. With all your moving and boxes and such, you really must prioritize and set up your gear, I will be patient waiting your official opinion on the Dyn's, I know Art is waiting as well. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3759 Registered: Dec-04 | I ran an A/B with the power conditione/Monster unit all morning, and again, I am learning. The power unit has opened up not so much the sources and pre, as much as the amp. The little Rotel 985 has never sounded better. Using a rather regular cd, with the transDAC, the performance of the amp was and is, terrific. Opening up the amp a good bit for American Pie, really showed what a cheap amp can do. Forceful, deliberate vocals were brought up, moreso than ever before. The vocals(obviously the center of the piece) are sharp, and the trans is superb in delivering the subtle qualities of even this most pedestrian of tracks. Keep in mind that this is a direct A/B with power conditioners only. This Rotel is cranking out power which would belie it's rating.In my small, low ceiling listening space, this Rotel is overpowering my speakers by a good margin, yet the Psb's continue to extend far beyond their intended usage, I am sure. I really cannot wait for the CA200 to come back from the doc, that unit delivers such solid, I've got your back type of power, that it should be an absolute blast! I know that I am needing speakers at some point, please see my Von S. post in speakers, folks, I am almost there. Now to plug in the Rotel cdp for a A/B with the transport. Film at 11. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 62 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, I have been posting about how much of a "component" my Monster AVS 2000 Voltage Regulator and HTS 5100 Reference Power Line Filter / Conditioner are. I do not know which Monster you have but you may want to play with various levels of their products. I know Tweeter was clearancing all of their Monster stuff. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3760 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Mike. Here in the GWN, the options are a tad limited, not quite third world, but a bit slower in the offerings. Good to talk to ya' even giving the phone line and time available. Other members get kinda freaked out when I call, but soon as they know I ain't a stalker, it's all good. I did take the time to run the Rotel 1072 cdp today, just before opening a can. The 1072 is straight into the CP50 pre, with analogues.The cables are el cheapo Monsters.Sorry. Test cd's are whatever Nuck wanted. First is a mix disc with American Woman(full intro)and American pie for dessert.The second is Queen's greatest hits(Hollywood records HR6 1265-2) and a good spot of reference. Openers, Classe on transport. Although I do not object to any of my gear(else I would not have it) the track seemed rather 'veiled' in presentation. It had lots of bass, but lacked speed and acularity, which I,admittadly, covet. AW was a bit slow it seemed to me, Burtons opening vocals need a breath to them, this player did not do that as well as others could. However, when the band opens up, the delivery is very full, and enjoyable as the sounds meld together very well, the sustains from Randy's guitar seem to last a lot longer for this track. AW on the Rotel is like night and day. Openings are fresh and sharp, hard hits and solid finishes, although not as complete sounding as the Classe. As Frank said, the Rotel sounds 'mechanical' to him, and I can see that, depending upon which source you choose. I could imagine a classical or cartoon disc being a waste with the Rotel player. However, should you choose a Who, Rush, or Ramones cd, this one will not let you down. Beyond the initial peasentation, I chose the Queen cd for 2 reasons. 1: it can cook. 2: the variety. Track 10 'Now Im here' delivers absolute seperation, along with a very full stage. On that track and at considerable volume the Queen delivery is one to be reconed with, considerng mid delivery. The Classe delivered as expected, true to the soure, but somehow moderated, as if naturally. These Queen rec's can be somewhat overpowering in my listening, but the player spared me the 'turn it down' factor, thankin' you. The Rotel 1072 continued in it's relentless ways through these passages. Completely true to the source, what you see is what you hear type of thing. I find neither machine to present itself as objectionaqble, althoug given the coice of one above the other, in a system with no tonals, I would choose the Rotel, for it's accuracy. That is my personal call, The Rotel will RnR with the best. If you listen to jazz, well maybe, but this player will expose timing flaws like a metronome. Smooth sound is your gig? Check the Apollo, or Saturn. Overall, Rotel 4/5, Classe 3/5. Bear in mind the Rotel was analog into the preamp. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 233 Registered: Mar-06 | Nuck, glad to hear that the Classe' trans-dac is locked in. It is nice when some new equipment just works out. I agree I need to pull my finger out, I have been hesitating to set up the Dyn's due to lack of suitable speaker cables. I will get on it, I am keen to figure out how the Dyn's sound at home. Also, I need to pass through the extended break in period, since the Dyn's I have bought have very low hours on them. We have finished the re-arranging at home, It was mostly just moving stuff around, and some early spring cleaning. Pretty much all done now. cheers Rav P.S. I like your comment about the CA200, I know this feeling, when you make demands of a truly great amp, it delivers!!! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3775 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks Rav, I presume that speaker placement did not make the top of the list for arranging, as it should be, the there is no 'I' in team, or some such schlock. The dealer down in London has a CA300, up-capped to 301 standards, and he wants to de-list it for about the same 1600 Nuck Bucks as the CA200 currently under physicians care. I will call him back tomorrow, and will likely make that move. That dealer is where I heard the Von Schweigert vr2's and liked them, too. No pricing yet, I tend to listen first, then check pricing, which is why I loved the B&W 802d's so much, then fell back to earth with a helmet cracking thud, worthy of Wile E. Coyote. Oh well. Keep well, recover your senses for the return to work-land, and enjoy your winter. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 234 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, wow, the CA300 sounds like a real refined brute of an amplifier. Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about the Von Schweigerts, I will do some googling. In the interim, I have gotten my hifi toolkit out, and re-terminated my speaker cables, using WBT solder. I had a bi-wire loom, so I just doubled up the speaker leads. I re-fitted those horrible brass jumpers to my NAD speakers, I gave the jumper plates a lick of Caig De-oxit, followed by a good clean. A quick re-test using the NAD speakers confirmed pleasingly increased bass-weight from the doubled-up speaker leads. I then removed the NAD's from the room, and I noticed my 3 and half year old son took much interest in the now redundant NADs, since I think that there is a seed of a thought present that these NADs could the basis of his first hifi rig!!!! (Honestly: from the mouths of babes, I have heard him say to me in the past "Daddy, I am a DJ, I NEED some of your cables!"). Actually, I was given carte blanche in terms of speaker placement. So no worries at all. So, I then blu-tacked the Dyns to the speaker stands using pretty much same location as per the NADs. In fact the NADs and the Dyns have virtually the same dimensions, except the Dyn's are significantly heavier. Also, the listening room, now has a resplendant new rug, made from Kiwi (NZ) wool, it looks gorgeous and helps the acoustics too. But it should look nice, the thing cost more than a new Rega Apollo!!! The first disc I spun, was the special edition of Exodus, this is a 2 disc affair, and the 2nd disc is various live recordings. I spun the 2nd disc. Well, what I can I say! From the first few bars of music, it was like Jamaican sunshine was shining into my listening room, on this very pleasant winter's afternoon. The Dyn's are amazing! This is the missing piece of the puzzle for me, since the modded Sony, and the AVi are very good performers, so now they are matched with speakers of a suitable calibre. All I can say is that the Dyn's are much more open in the midrange, and seem to reveal a flood of tonal colour and detail from the Sony player. I would never have called the NADs 'shut in', but the Dyns are in a different league. Also bass weight from the Dyn's is significantly greater than the NAD's already, but I think there is more to come. Also the treble register is great too, the Dyn's really seem to make sense of the cymbal work performed by the drummer, so its really great. I cannot think of any significant criticism, its all good to my ears! In a nutshell, I would describe the overall sound as very dynamic and open and insightful, with very good timing too, rythmns are really highlighted in a way that makes the whole thing very coherent. I have just been spinning disc after disc, all afternoon and evening, now at gentle levels, since our little DJ is now sound asleep. Minor details aside, like speaker cable, I am now very happy indeed. I think I can just relax and enjoy the music for quite a while. I think my next major step, hifi-wise, is to investigate local sources for good 2nd hand vinyl. If I can find a rich enough vein of good vinyl, I will start an upgrade program on the LP12. I think I will throw caution to the wind, and start by ordering a OL Silver tonearm from the UK. This all pre-supposes I can find good vinyl in Melbourne. I think going back to work will be difficult, since the 1.3se's are definitely speakers that make you want to stay up into the small hours of the morning!! cheers Rav PS thanks for sharing all the pain and the glory of your experiences of the Classe' equipment. It has been very interesting to follow this journey, albeit vicariously....... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3790 Registered: Dec-04 | Indeed, the kit seems to be working well for you Rav, and that is always a good thing. I have to wait until the weekend to pick up the ca200 from the shop, if it is ready, I am not sure yet. Onlyy after I try it will I persue the other ca300. However, in fact, the whole thing may be for naught, I have some little indication of work being so slow, that cutbaccks could be coming up. I hardly ever leave the country anymore, in fact. If pressed or income is in question, I may have to return the lot, with a full review and a letter or recommendation to the dealer. A couple of weeks left for that, yet. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 241 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, here's hoping that things pick up for you workwise. best wishes Rav |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3502 Registered: Feb-05 | I've suffered the budgetary cutback demotion this year...it sucks. Much luck to you Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3805 Registered: Dec-04 | The work thing is just a hunch so far, and if the boss has more money behind him than I guess, it may not matter much. Thanks, guys. However, shopping is free, and I called the dealer back today about the ca200. Seems his tech re-created the shutdown on his bench with similar loads and wire as mine. Seemed to me, and to him, that the class switching stage is hiccupping. So the guy emailed Classe, and from what I am told, the Classe guy says the unit falls in spec! Excuse me?! Thats what the dealer said as well. The dealer's tech guy is ticked, the dealer is fuming and I be waiting, no hurry at all. Meantime, the dealer in London here has that ca300 modded unit, 2 yrs old. He sold it new, and got it back in trade for a Sim kit. His price is steep, maybe too steep, but he will happily give me 75% of purchase price back on the Rotel 985 amp, and a coupla bills for the H/K55 avr, lowering the price to 2k. More to follow... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3814 Registered: Dec-04 | Okee doke, the tech called me and laid out the deal. Seems to be 2 design flaws here, by his opinion, so I am buying that for now. Seems the amp has NO zobal network installed, which would obviously make mode switching rather difficult. One bi-lateral cap was also way off spec,so a parallel recap is in order, and will be done this week. I may call the guy for cap specs, but asking for info that I do not fully understand would be a bi-lateral waste of time. The tech guy kind of picked up on my rec for an external cap bank, and he will find time for that app when possible. Another week for the amp back here, then, we shall see. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 91 Registered: May-06 | You have more patience than I. The objective is most certainly worth the wait. I hope it all pays off. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8998 Registered: May-04 | . An external "cap bank"? How much storage do you think you need, Nuck? Or, are you just trying to kill your cat when it wanders into the wrong end of the room? . |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 250 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, I am not sure if I understood all the technicalities, perhaps I need to dust off my copy of Horrowitz and Hill -The Art of Electronics. I have a vague recollection that a Zobel network is something put inside an amp to aid stability, into certain types of load, but cannot recall any specifics. But the same as Jan, I have noted that you have an idea in your head for an external capacitor bank. I recall you mentioned this to me, since when I did my restoration on the A60, I lamented the fact that I was not able to increase the size of the main reservoir caps, due to slimline case of the A60 amp. I guess the plan is to wait for the CA200 to come back from the shop, I get the feeling that the CA300 is a plan-B/reserve option? cheers Rav P.S. My Dyn's are getting better every day. I mistakenly thought they were run in, but speaking to someone much more knowledgeable than myself, the burn in profile for the Contour 1.3se is opposite to the Focus 140. The Focus 140 initially starts out bass-shy, and then gains bass weight. The Contour 1.3se starts out quite bassy, and gradually the midrange will blossom to bring things into balance. I am running the Isotek burn-in CD constantly on repeat whenever we leave the house. I hope the neighbours don't hear the white noise and think that we have a water leak. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3816 Registered: Dec-04 | The caps were an extension of your ampwork, Rav,not likely necessary, but could be an attractive package to fabricate? Roasting little Leo would be unfortunate. The plan stands, so long as I get back from L.A.(just arrived) I will pick up the 200 on Saturday. |
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