How high would you go
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 36 Registered: Jun-06 | Hi all, Wanting some suggestions on a CD Player. Have just finished upgrading the amp and the speakers and now wanting to upgrade the CD Player. The Question is how high can i go with the choice of the CD Player so that the system does not tip out of balance, or what would be a sane choice. Current System B&W 603 s3 NAD 542 (would still keep it  ) Rotel 1062 and RB 1050 biamping the speakers with Kimber 8tc. Now i was looking at Rega Apollo but also looking at some higher choice available like Cyrus 6s, Cyrus 8s, or Musical Fidelity X ray v3 or an Arcam in the same price range. I have access to Arcam, Rega, Naim, Musical Fidility, Shanling, Marantz, Cyrus. Any opinion would be appreciated. I am sure ill hear differences as high as i go, but what do you think is a sane choice so that none of the components are outperforming each other by a huge margin. System sounds very nice at the moment but have a feeling that NAD 542 is the weakest link and yes wanna upgrade . PLEASE ADVISE. Many Thanks Saurabh |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 276 Registered: Mar-06 | CD player with the best bang per buck IMHO, is the ESound E5. Here's a link: http://www.cattylink.com/ cheers Rav |
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New member Username: KretonPost Number: 5 Registered: Nov-06 | I had a two piece Theta in the past and experienced numerous problems due to voltage problems. Then switched to Audio Research CD3. It's great, actually more than great ! Also I was curious about if different CD players or direct digital files would make a big difference. So I plugged in whatever I could find into my amp (basic cd players, computer, ipod) and saw that CD3 did MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better. Well, comparing CD3 with cheap players and computers is pretty weird I admit but I was simply curious and did not have a proper CD player to pit against the CD3. Before buying my Thetas I listened to Naim, Musical Fidelity and some others that appeared in ads with jaw dropping photos and technical talk. The result ? I did not like them. So my answer is : Let your ears tell you. I never care about how important a brand is other than they make solid, reliable products. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 648 Registered: Apr-04 | I just listened to the new Cambridge Audio 840C Azur and all I can say is WOOOWW! This thing is amazing! I have always been a NAD guy but Cambridge is definately becoming a thorn for them as they are coming out with high end products lately at great prices. I had a chance to compare with the new MOON (? model) and it was around 5000$............I found NO difference at all and maybe it was even better! I am surprised! |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 298 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Dan, interesting info...... It is always heartening to hear about an affordable piece of gear that punches well above its weight. Can I ask what amp and speakers you listened to the 840C through? (I am just wondering if the amp and speakers transparent enough for you to hear what the Moon CDP was doing?) cheers Rav |
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Silver Member Username: Daniel_canadaCanada Post Number: 201 Registered: May-06 | Danman. The 840c has digital inputs, it would be interesting to have one for a few days to play with. Use another CDp as a transport. Compare and such. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 43 Registered: Jun-06 | Thank you Ravinder, Kreton,Danman and Dan, i shall try to hear the new 840C and keep you all posted, also Ravinder are you reading my mind , i was about to ask exactly the same question. Has anyone had a change to hear he Marantz SA 14 CD/SACD, any impressions? |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 919 Registered: Nov-05 | saurabh, you said you think the C542 is the weak link in your system, but you never explained why. What is it about the sound you are hearing that makes you feel you need to upgrade. I'm not saying other players aren't better, I'm only saying that the NAD CDP may not be the weak link. Click on my profile to see what gear I have my C542 combined with. I can tell you, it's not the weak link. I don't have one. Again, that's not to say I can't do better. But it is that old law of diminishing returns that afflicts us. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 44 Registered: Jun-06 | M.R Good question, 542 is no doubt great for the money and beyond, reasons why i feel it could be a weak link Even on a Rega Planet i found some real improvements - for eg on Dire Straits "Private Investigation" some where after 3 mins 55 secs you can hear breathing on the right had side which is very very light with the 542 also stereo imaging was better with the rega on a Bon Jovi's Destination Anywhere. Compared to Cyrus 6vs, the same dire straits track to my ears was much better with more separation between the instruments and better timing, and again more separation with Arcam t73, however i find 542 more musical than Arcam in question for sure (no logical reasons). I have tried isolating the CD player with home made platform. tried using the best cables i could afford. i rate the B&W 603 s3 high along with Rotel 1062 and 1050 for the money and hence thought could do with a better CD player, so decided to try some thing better. havig said that i was sad to sell my NAD 521bee and hence bought 542 so most probably it will stay with me. Totally agree that law of diminishing returns is going to kick in with a Vengence, may be i shouldnt have hear some thing better . Also somewhere i always felt that NAD & Rotel dont Mix as well as a NAD 542 did with my previous 352. What are your thoughts. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4525 Registered: Dec-04 | Saurabh, have you tried the Rotel 1072. just to get a feel for the whole Rotel kit? I doubt you would keep it, just wondering how the synergy might seem. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 920 Registered: Nov-05 | saurabh I agree that Rega, Arcam, Naim, Musical Fidelity, Meridian, Linn etc etc make better players than the C542 by a long shot. I agree with Nuck, many brand components coupled together have a synergy that just works better. Some mixes work well too of course and there's the fact that your ears will be satisfied with nuances that our won't and vice versa. Its all a rather large quandary that keeps us dipping deep into our wallets except for those of us with a better half that keep us under limited control. |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 650 Registered: Apr-04 | I listened to the Cambridge with three systems. He had the first one set up with a Bryston pre-amp and power then he used the new 840A Cambridge Audio integrated amp. But what surprised me the most was his choice of speakers....B&W 802D which cost 17000$ CAN.!!!! In other words, he really wanted me to hear this player! I was very impressed. I am starting to wonder if NAD will catch up even though I also listened to it with the C162 and C272 which was also very impressive. I did like the NAD combo better than the Cambridge 840A which sort of surprised me but NAD is very good in amplification (2 channel). Cambridge sort of struggles in that area. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4526 Registered: Dec-04 | 802D. Schwinggg! |
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 45 Registered: Jun-06 | Thanks again guys, Yes Nuck i did hear the 1072 with a RA 03 connected to a pair of Dynaudio 72, with all due respect was on the brighter side of my taste - nice build and looks , wasnt happy with the demo as i think speakers were not run in or some thing was wrong somewhere with the outcome of the whole thing being under wheelming. But on the same Rig Arcam T73 sounded much better to my ears, good seperation and more neutral if not warm. Some one has also suggested to try the Quad CD-S and CDP 2 - any comments welcome. Its getting all the more difficult as this will be my last upgrade for a while and hence the last piece of the puzzle, its so easy to start with one componenet of your choice but it starts getting difficult with system synergy cables etc, to top it all its hard to get home demos other than Cyrus and Rega. hence trying to short down to a few. Shall try Rega Apollo soon and keep everyone updated - the only thing i dont like is the top loader with lots of potential for dust to settle i guess. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 299 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Dan, thanks for answering my question ;-) Wow! The 840C must be something special for you to compare it so favourably against the expensive Moon unit, given that Bryston pre/pwr and 802D is more than transparent enough to do justice to a unit like the Moon. I will try to get a listen to the 840C at my local dealer when I get a chance. cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4528 Registered: Dec-04 | me too! |
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Silver Member Username: DanmanQUEBEC CANADA Post Number: 652 Registered: Apr-04 | Worth it! I was quite blown away and that is something that does not usually happen to me easily with audio gear. I think I will wait for about 6 months to see how reliable it will be and also for NAD to come out with something that will replace their C542 that will compete. My heart is still with them but things can change. By the way........those B&W speakers were the best I have ever heard at that price!!!! Just lovely! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4538 Registered: Dec-04 | The 802D are my destination, I cannot find another speaker that I would ever desire, or enjoy, more. And the look just leaves me gasping! I might try and hear the 840c today... |
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Bronze Member Username: Rysa3Post Number: 16 Registered: Nov-06 | I use the Jolida CD-100A for my reference CD player. I had it modified by underwoodhifi.com via partsconnexion in Quebec and am very satisfied and pleased with the result. I preferred it over the Musical Fidelity offering I compared it to as well as Arcam and Rotel. Never have heard that Cambridge Audio AZUR-- sounds interesting! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4558 Registered: Dec-04 | Marc, the Cambridge 840C lists for 1700C$, last stop at another shop the Rega Apollo was tagged at 1500. I saw Arcam FMJ at 2700 and the Rotel 1072 was 850. I bet your Jolida is awfully sweet.What were the mod's? |
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Bronze Member Username: Rysa3Post Number: 17 Registered: Nov-06 | The Jolida has a tube based output stage, so the digital outs basically gather dust. It has been a good match with my Sugden CLass A amp and Soliloquy floorstanders. Basically, they go through the sound signal path and change out cheaper parts for more expensive ones. They put in Audionote Tantalum resistors, Black Gate capacitors, Black Gate diodes, the usual sound coat, use DH Labs silver wire, a pair of pure copper plated vampire jacks, the usual wonder solder, and swap out the chinese stock tubes ( which they give you) and put in a pair of Svetlanas; pretty good tubes and an upgrade, but not the best. The current cost of the player and these upgrades is at 1350, but I dont put much stock in relative costs-- all the players at a certain level say something like " sounds better than a 10,000$ player, or something similar. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 47 Registered: Jun-06 | Lots of interesting stuff coming up, Thank you all guys. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4577 Registered: Dec-04 | See there, Saurabh, the mod market is ripe for the pickin's, Marc's player is probably in the top percentile under scary money. And thanks Marc. I would love to hear you kit, it looks to be incredible accurate(I love that). Marc, which tube are you running? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4578 Registered: Dec-04 | BTW, I am hoping Rav Banes drops by here soon, he is very current on mods, and a fine felloww as well. Saurabh, completely aside, NZ guys are called Kiwi's, like Canadians are called Canuck's. Is Kiwi offensive at all? I hope not. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rysa3Post Number: 22 Registered: Nov-06 | On the modded Jolida, yes its quite accurate, but it has a certain warmth/presence--most likely due to the tubes; that I enjoy. I think at the level of this player, you can in fact find even more accurate players, but perhaps with a tradeoff on a more live sound. I have come to appreciate that in hi fi audio, the compnents and how they mixe together really can affect the result more than I had realized. The tubes in the Jolida are Svetlana 12 AX7. It is a step up from the chinese stock tubes, which I also have. However, there are likely even better tubes out there from GE/RCA for instance. I was happy with the result so I havent really looked further. Nuck- you might be interested- Eddie and Chris came over a few months back to do some new AScend/Old Ascend comparisons- but Eddie was fairly enthralled with this audio set up--he actually kinda got mesmerized. I think it was a different experience for him from his Panasonic XR55 realm! His comment after listening and getting back to the t4est was " WEll back to reality" or something like that. If you ever come through Houston, you are welcome to stop in any time! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4579 Registered: Dec-04 | Marc, thank you for that invite, be careful, it might just happen! I remember the listen that you mention, Eddie kind of went quiet after that, I think, he was appreciative of the listening, I recall. Marc, it is good to have you back on the forum, indeed! What happened to Eddie? No e-mail, nothing. Hmmm. He moved, maybe not back on-line yet? Is your profile up to date? It all looks well, mine is up to date for now, kind of in flux. Thanks again. |
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Bronze Member Username: Rysa3Post Number: 23 Registered: Nov-06 | I had to re-register; something happened to my old login and I culdnt get it to work anymore. Eddie closed his business and moved to New Mexico about 2 weeks ago. We went out to dinner about a month back. His change in life/moving seems on first glance dramatic but on further discussion well reasoned for him in his way of thinking. More talk than that on an ecoustics post is probably not a good idea, but I dont think Eddie would mind the post as is. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4585 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks for the info, Marc, will PM. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 48 Registered: Jun-06 | Hey Nuck, No Kiwi is not offensive , named after Kiwi a flight less bird - now very rare found only in NZ . On a different note there is some good hifi from this part of the world like Perreaux Plinius Image speakers http://www.imageloudspeakers.com/index.asp cheers |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4589 Registered: Dec-04 | saurabh, thank you for those. A real treat to get a taste of offerings from around the globe, sharing our common interest! I think I shall start a new thread, starting from your info. Cheers! |
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 49 Registered: Jun-06 | Always happy to share. Awesome idea, we all can probably contribute a lot more , And its good to know products other than main line products with mass marketing. Just today i heard new speakers totally made in NZ by the name "Theophany" connected to some Class A Usher amp and the sound was awesome, the proprietor went to the extent of giving example of people changing from 800 B&W series - cant comment on the comparision but the sound was very impressive. http://www.theophanyloudspeakers.com/index.php. Cheers |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 300 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi folks, had the opportunity to listen to the 840C, and Rega Saturn on Friday afternoon at a local dealer here in Melb. I came away very impressed by the Saturn, so much so the 840C did not get much air-time. But I believe that the Saturn costs considerably more than the 840C. On the subject of mods, I have two modded machines, a very old JVC XL-Z1050TN (Burson Audio clock, capacitor and op-amp upgrades, all DIY work), and a very heavily modded Sony XA-5ES (LC-Audio X03 clock, dedicated clock PSU, LC-Audio Zapfilter Class A output stage. IEC socket, Bybee Quantum purification filters on the RCA outs, and upgraded Audiocom super-regulators, and various capacitor upgrades). The work on the Sony was performed professionally by soundlabs.com.au, since the scope of the work is much more than I can manage, since it involved a lot of mechanical work also, to accomodate the extra PSU's for the clock and the output stage. I am very very happy with the Sony, and it is in short the best CD sound that I have experienced. Yes, surely it can be bettered, but I believe only at a very high cost. For me the best mod, is to address the clocking, since this is the achilles heel of most commercial machines. On my JVC, I used a Burson Audio, clock module, which worked very well and was very affordable too. For me when the clocking is properly addressed, the sound takes on, for want of a better word, a very 'analog' feel. The sound becomes much more muscially coherent, and the various instruments seem to work together in short to make music, as opposed to just hifi type noises. Also generally imaging and soundstaging is enhanced. I would say in summary, my experience has been that these hot rodded machines are probably one way to achieve a high-end sound at a realistic cost. BTW Marc's modded Jolida sounds interesting to me, since it has a valve output stage, another weak spot in most CDP's is of course the op-amp based output stage. cheers Rav |
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Bronze Member Username: Rysa3Houston, Texas Post Number: 26 Registered: Nov-06 | Think I'll pass on the baiting. |
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Bronze Member Username: Sukhoi30New Zealand Post Number: 50 Registered: Jun-06 | Thanks to everyone who replied Just an Update Bought home Marantz CD 17 Mk III and SA 8400 and decided to hold onto SA 8400. CD 17 was run in while SA8400 was not, also these are my comparisions and observation on a very basic level - i am not a pro reviewer so ...... please...... First Impressions CD 17 Mk III Build - Extremely well built, slim and solid (8Kgs), nice champagne gold finish and comes with a gold plated RCA interconnects. Remote is lovely as well to match the CD player, i guess one has to see this in real to appreciate as photos dont do justice. Operation - Minor quibbles like cannot put it on stand by mode, slight lag in changing songs from one to another (matter of getting used to it)- but a fantastic display with dimmer options and a very solid feel to operate. Sound - Extremely smooth treble - perhaps too smooth for my taste and the bass was deep but not as solid as my NAD 542, Very nice Mids as well with well focussed Vocals and nice timber to the sound, though very smooth guitar sounded very real.Very low ear fatigue and can leave it on for the whole day and still enjoy it. In all honesty may be too good for my taste and was not a very emotive experience for me - so back into the box (there were some other issues i shouldnt mention as not related to the product). Marantz SA8400 Built - Boxy look,Nice built, weighs 8 Kgs - lovely display and the 2 RCA connections at the back are apart which i like. Operations - nice smooth operation, its nice to see song changed and playing from song no 2 to song no 16 in half a sec, no stand by again. Sound - Lively sound, as or more emotive as NAD 542 with more air around everything, rock solid Bass. Outcome - Bought the SA 8400 and am very happy - if this is sounding so good out of the box then ........, stereo imaging could be better but i guess will get better with run in period. Felt that the new Marantz 7001 is the same SA8400 in a new dress, has same looks and DA as the new Marantz 7001, Ditto rear as well. Sits very well in the Rotel B&W system by smoothing out the treble just to the right level to enjoy my music taste. any questions please ask I know quite a few would opt for CD 17 but as per my taste SA8400 was a better experience. |
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