Archive through July 13, 2006
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2703 Registered: Dec-04 | After much soul searching I have decided to forego the tube amp route for the forseeable future. I just cannot justify the type of MacIntosh I was considering for my speakers, listening style and room. However, I still want to make a good move, and have legged out some B&W products to match my Rotels and music choices/listening style/expectations. I am looking to make an appointment to hear the 802D, and bi amp with the Rotel. Of course this includes a new preamp. Another path to consider, but my research shows this 985rm amp I have to work really well with the Bowers. And, of course, this leaves room for mono amps. If I can sort out the preamp this may be the route to invest in. And sell-off the Psb's, hopefully for a bit of coin. Straka! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2704 Registered: Dec-04 | I forgot the question mark. Anyone have experience with the 802D's? Thanks. |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 951 Registered: May-05 | Nuck, Don't go back to the dark side. Follow your instincts, TOOBS RULE!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3315 Registered: Feb-05 | Ah Nuck goin' backwards. Dave knows what he's talkin' bout. TOOBS do indeed RULE!!!! 802D's and Rotel are not equal. The D's require special electronics to get the most of them. I've listened to them with some of the new Krell amps and was immensely impressed. Heard them with Musical Fidelity.....not so much. They are great speakers. Good luck Mr Nuck. |
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Bronze Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 98 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, I think it will be highly informative to go and listen to the 802Ds. Please let us know your thoughts post-demo. But,I tend to agree with others here, that the B&W Nautilus speakers are highly critical of the powering amplifier. I think the Rotel stuff will be out its depth with the 802Ds. Not in terms of power, but certainly in terms of quality of sound. Take your time dude, I certainly don't want to see our genial Canadian correspondant make a mistake. I guess there are many possible options, but my instinct says if the Macs are really what you want , take your time and go for it down the track. Although, there are many other options to pursue, for example should you like the 802D speaker itself, there are plenty of amps around that are of impeccable quality. One that comes to mind is the following, Karan Acoustics KA-180i. I have heard this thing, once upon a time in London, and it amazed me: http://www.karanacoustics.com/ia.htm http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/ka-i180_e.html This is the type of amp, that I think would mate well with the 802Ds, and it will certainly outperform a whole gaggle of Rotel pre and power-amps. Also, I have mucho respect for the Lavardin IT reference integrated amp. I am just trying to suggest a couple of amps that may lie in the middle distance between what you have and a mono-block Mac setup. Both the Lavardin, and the Karan are amps worthy of a lifelong musical relationship. And if Anthony Michaelson (Musical Fidelity's MD) ever heard the Karan, he would weep!!! ("Suffer in your jocks, Mr Michaelson") Keep the faith, Nuck, cheers Rav........ |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1365 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck, If you must pass on tubes, the only solid state amp I personally would consider under $2K, is the Sugden A21 integrated. I have heard nothing else that even comes close. Give a listen if you can. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2722 Registered: Dec-04 | Rav, thank-you for your input. I have looked at the models you put forth and I am excited about them! However Canadian support may be a sticking point, in the unlikely event of a breakdown. Rick, I did hear the Sugden a while back, while checking out the Rotel cdp. I wasn't focused on the amp, but it did deliver well on 603's, as did both cdp's(the Rotel won, I wonder how much amp was in there.) Another consideration, geez, it never ends. But considering the bucks involved, I appreciate all the members input! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2723 Registered: Dec-04 | Art, I cannot see this as a step backwards at all. My listening, and the quality of products I am considering must really be the seperation of rock and roll with adaptable listening, such as jazz and classical. My interest lie in guitar driven, drums heavy music, and the difference is real and palatable, so much as I have heard. The difference is not generational, being 40-something, but growing up on The Who and Zep and Rush, I would be remiss to deny the factors in my decision. A good ss system will deliver the classics as well as I will need, and deliver the rock that I live on(Golden Earing, The Doors, Rush, Zep),as well as Cartoon Classics. Again, I welcome all input, and thank all members for their views. |
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Bronze Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 99 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, since you are at some stage, going to make a large step forward with your system, I feel that it is important that you take your time and listen to as much equipment as possible. I recall when I first heard a very high quality low distortion amplifier it was quite confusing for me. Mainly because the dealer had connected a mid-range price CD player, the glass like clarity of the amp was showing up all of the digital grain of the CD player. My ears did not let me down, and I ended up asking the dealer to change the player, and evnetually I figured out what the amp was doing. Now in terms of Canadian support (you make a good point), since the Lavardin and Karan amps are somewhat obscure. Since you need an even handed amp that does not favour any particular musical style, look at the Classe, Bryston, and SimAudio. All Canadian and all very good. In terms of the Sugden it is nice, but low powered, it can drive tough speaker loads, but your ultimate SPL levels won't be the window rattling kind. I have heard the A21, its a nice amp. Sugden have the A21se now, a more refined design with a bit more power (never heard it though). Also you have Sugden's masterclass series as well. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2747 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks again Ravi. I have been poking around and getting a list together, as well as picking dealers to visit. At this point, I have B&W 703's to look at first. The 8's I was drooling over indeed would require more electrics to run properly, but this amplifier http://www.bryston.ca/6bsst_m.html might make the 8's possible. In the long run, I wonder what one considers window rattling power? I will have that, with fries. If I go the Bryston route(with the 20 yr warranty), I want window breaking capabilities. Not always used, mind you, but the ability to terrify neighbors and cause furniture to spontaneously combust. This applicaation is not at the top of my requirements, but, again, I consider this to be a once in a lifetime go-round. However, I would be happy to have something fail, if that means I outlived it! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8563 Registered: May-04 | Gentlemen, I think you are missing Nuck's point regarding his choice of solid state over thermionic valves. While the Sugden offers class A performance that has many of the sonic attributes of tube technology, the Sugden amplifiers are still roughly only twenty five watts. Very good watts, but only twenty five none the less. For someone who ruled out all but 6550 output tubes for his needs, I think the ante is going to be raised a bit to satisfy Nuck's desires. Particularly with the B&W's he seems to want. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3322 Registered: Feb-05 | The Musical Fidelity A3.5 seems to have plenty of power and is a good match with B&W. It also doesn't cost an arm and a leg (all things being relative ofcourse). |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2750 Registered: Dec-04 | Apendiges aside, thanks Art, another on the list to audition. Thanks, Jan. This should take a while, folks, and a great deal of consideration as well. I thank you for your continued input and time. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 103 Registered: Mar-06 | Jan, Nuck, I think I understand the rough brief, a 'full range' system that handles rock predominantly, but should be even handed enough to do justice to other forms of music also. On the Sugden stuff, I was kind of pointing to you to their Masterclass range. I have not heard this stuff, but have heard only good things about these amps. Dunno if this stuff is available in Canada, or indeed if it fits the budget, but interesting amps nonetheless. Take a look :-) http://www.sugdenaudio.com/range/masterclass.htm I have lots of questions for you Nuck, but they will have to wait until later, since work calls (got to pay the piper sometime....) In any case again, the best advice I can offer you is take your time, listen to as much stuff as possible. Since myself, I often find it it hard to figure out what does exactly what, and some things can be an acquired taste... Dunno if I am making sense here? best regards, in the interim Rav |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 953 Registered: May-05 | Nuck, I'll wait patiently as you listen to some options and I'll wait to see which direction you go, and more importantly, why. Many of the options suggested aren't available to me so I'm still waiting for a trip to Seattle or possibly even L.A. I've got to go down to L.A. to enjoy my sister's wedding in June and maybe I can find a couple of audio shops with some options that are suggested. I'm interested in seeing what the "other half" gets to hear before selecting components. I'm afraid I've had to pick components based on availability, reject those that don't work and try again. It's worked great on the 2 channel and worked OK on the HT so far. Listen, review and let us know what you're hearing. I find this process fascinating but it's be a heck of alot more fun if I could play along more fully. Good luck, Dave |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2773 Registered: Dec-04 | Thank you, all for the continued interest and input. I did visit one shop today, who stocked the B&W 703's, not the s model. I had a good look and really love the appearance, which is important(on a sliding scale). He said they were picking up the Rotel line soon, as he had a Marantz 7300 at present, I got a feel for the guy and left without listening(opening time, was not powered up)but I did not need to listen to the AVR in any case. One small city store, he gave me the name af another store with the big 800 series and more amps to try. I hope to see the place soon. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2779 Registered: Dec-04 | I have noticed that some 'highly recommended' units still do not deliver 200% power into 4ohm loads, rated. This has long been considered a benchmark for power, as long as I have read. Is there a difference in ratings, or am I snuffling for truffles? |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 106 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, yep I have noticed the same thing, most good amps either double or come close to doubling their output into a 4 ohm load, versus a 8 ohm load. It is just a paper spec, but it is one I tend to consider seriously. Since amps that have a 'stiff' power supply seem to do a good job of driving real world speakers. I don't think that you are fumer la mocquette, to consider this important. But at the end of the day, I stand by my comments, yep a A3.5 may be better than a Rotel, but this type of upgrade would not give me long term satisfaction. Of course we are all different, so we can decide for ourselves. cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2790 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Ravi. A Rotel 1070 will deliver 2x power, I thought that others might as well, I might keep this in my pocket, but numbers do not, ever, tell the story. The numbers do sell, though... |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 107 Registered: Mar-06 | Also where's Frank? With all of his common sense, retail experience and exposure/familiarity with many many equipments, his input would be invaluable... -Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2791 Registered: Dec-04 | Frank is at the pub, dispensing his knowledge for free, or a pint. Rav, how is the ss market for high power, quality DIY's? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2792 Registered: Dec-04 | Or really good mod's? |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 108 Registered: Mar-06 | Nuck, yeah I agree Rotels are normally very powerful amps, and when measured by magazines tend to exceed their paper specs in terms of power. Rotel's provide great bang for the buck, but I just have the residual feeling, that if you are aiming for a substantive upgrade, that will put a smile on your face for many years to come, then Rotel does not have the quality required. My personal feeling is that you should be 'flying the flag', either Bryston or Classe. cheers Rav |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 109 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, I have looked at some DIY kits, but I don't have personal experience of them. And they tended to look at bit pricey. I am still very much on a learning curve with my DIY stuff. But I am trying to walk before I run. One DIY amp which is very highly rated is the Aksa series (just do a google to get the full spiel). With the Aksa you just get the PCB and the parts. You need to sort out your own enclosure. Also LCAudio do some kit amps that look very serious. And they make the cases. But the amps are very expensive. But the issue here it is impossible to demo them. But well worth a look, and worth considering if feeling particularly brave. I am not courageous enough (yet) to tackle these projects. I would feel much better sitting close to the fire, on a cold winter's evening with a nice Bryston combo providing the entertainment. okay gotta go Rav |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 111 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, I have looked at some DIY kits, but I don't have personal experience of them. And they tended to look at bit pricey. I am still very much on a learning curve with my DIY stuff. But I am trying to walk before I run. One DIY amp which is very highly rated is the Aksa series (just do a google to get the full spiel). With the Aksa you just get the PCB and the parts. You need to sort out your own enclosure. Also LCAudio do some kit amps that look very serious. And they make the cases. But the amps are very expensive. But the issue here it is impossible to demo them. But well worth a look, and worth considering if feeling particularly brave. I am not courageous enough (yet) to tackle these projects. I would feel much better sitting close to the fire, on a cold winter's evening with a nice Bryston combo providing the entertainment. On the mods front, I think you could mod an amp by changing out components for upgraded types (as I did with my old A60, mostly for sentimental reasons). But you are ultimately limited by the perfomance of the circuit design. This is fun, since home cooking always tastes good. But again I dont see it fitting in with the 'great leap forwards' scenario. okay gotta go Rav |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 112 Registered: Mar-06 | oops, got trigger happy -sorry :-( |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2794 Registered: Dec-04 | Ravi, you are on a roll, yes? I appreciate your efforts, and look forward to more posts. I have just now received mail from Classe. I open. Thanks Nuck |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8610 Registered: May-04 | "I have noticed that some 'highly recommended' units still do not deliver 200% power into 4ohm loads, rated." Do you think the designer intentionally created a poorly designed unit? And wishes to foist it off on an unsuspecting, uneducated public. Or, could there possibly some reason for the numbers being where they are? Think, Nuck, think! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2800 Registered: Dec-04 | I'm tryin' but my thinker is gettin' sore! I am not going to let #'s do the talking for me, but that particular spec has been around for a while. For powerful ss amps it seems to be a benchmark(notice I didn't say reference?). Even the Rotel I have is 90% of the spec.So why am I wanting to change it out? Oh mama, I need to put the coffee on. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8611 Registered: May-04 | Ok, try this. Many of today's designers feel a more tightly regulated power supply is more appropriate for real world, dynamic conditions. The number you quote appears only as a static measurement and, like most static measurements, has little, if anything, to do with dynamic conditions. Over the years, the cost and size of large electrolytic storage and filter caps has been reduced on both counts. Most of the truly top flight amplifiers today have far more capacitance in the reservoirs than you would have found ten years ago. Often this is achieved by using multiples of smaller caps to promote quick recharging and discharging. This lends itself to tight regulation of many stages of the amp's performance. The result is, hopefully, a tightly controlled sound with sufficient dynamic power to satisfy most listeners under most conditions. While high end amplifiers have increased in cost, the actual cost of quality output transistors has decreased. So buying the correct amount of power for your needs isn't the issue it was twenty years ago. Large amounts of storage capacitance should result in - well, large amounts of reserves. Faced with a dificult load, the amplifiers concentrate on current delivery more so than voltage output. All of this has lowered that 2X into 1/2 the load spec of previous generations. Today, many designers feel more comfortable with an amplifier that produces about 1.5X into half the load. Since the load is never constant and never only concerned with resistance, this works for them. There are still designs which manage 2X into four Ohms, but you are correct in your observation. There aren't as many as in past years. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2818 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Jan. Your description of how and why capacitance is so important is not lost on me. In fact, recapping amps is so much better now on older models that the oldies can really be improved(not so a while ago). The power supply is really still the heart, though. Caps can greatly improve recovery and balance the output devices, but if the tank runs dry, thats it. Like a team out of gas. I understand your reasoning behind a well designed amp and its load values, and I may well end up with a unit under 2x, the ears will tell. I search out 2x for trials firstly. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1419 Registered: Sep-04 | Hello, Sorry about not coming in on this sooner. I've been really busy at work and the only reason I'm answering now is I've caught a cold and stayed at home today. That said, I liked the comment about me being down the pub! Nuck, I think you need to take a step back for a moment. You're taking a somewhat piecemeal approach to the situation and I think yo ned to consider it from a holistic point of view. In the process of giving up on tubes, you've (kind of) fixed on 802Ds. Well that's 2 out of the 3 components in the system. In my view, you should start looking around for your next 'system' as a whole. Forget whatever you've got. Walk into as many decent dealers in your town and chat to them about systems and how or what they would put together. Rotel amps are inappropriate in the context of an 802D system. 802Ds are very revealing and need some good driving (not enormous, just good). With respect, Rotels have drive and power but little of the finesse, resolution and dynamic range to take advantage of the 802D. You should be looking at Classe and Bryston - both traditionally good combinations with 800 series and Canadian so better value in your neck of the woods - and other things like Naim Reference (if available) and Sim Audio which are also well known to suit 800 series. Consider the prices of these things. Add them together and work out a sum. Take a deep breath, rip up your plans for the 802Ds and now work out a budget for the complete system. Think of it as a project to be bought into over a couple of years or so. Once you've got to this point you can approach the dealers with an idea of the budget you'd be willing to spend. Be clear with them that this is a long-ish term project but that you want to have a balanced system that works synergistically. The dealers will then be in a good position to help you. They might be able to figure out combinations that would not normally be within your compass. They could play you an 802D based system you hate and another system which you'd fall in love with, but no B&W speakers. If you give the dealers a free rein, you'll get very different presentations and allow them to show you what theyfeel is a good combination (and therefore whether you're coming from the same place). Don't get hung up on brands - go listen and take your time. Sorry if this is pouring cold water over you, but it's the best, most reliable way of building your system in my view... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2833 Registered: Dec-04 | Thank you Frank. No cold water here, just straight forward thinking which is what I asked for, and appreciate receiving. Step back, breathe, think(oww!) Ok, where do I want to be with the kit!? I want to be able to blast the music for Van Halen. I want crisp clean notes for James Taylor, Norah Jones and Freddie Mercury's high notes. If I trade-off, it will be in favor of SRV. Ok, then, where is my system lacking now? Bass. My subs suck.well then, I should look at new sub(s) or a front floorstander with hearty bass. Hence the 802D. I did not check pricing at all when spec'ing componants. Seems the 802 overshoots my budget by $2,802,974.67. The 703's however, are next to be auditioned. My Psb fronts now are 86-87 db sensitivity.Ok, the 703's are 90db and as I understand, player a little more than that, would that be an accurate assessment, folks? So the speaker change would net me like 50w(or whatever) of amp power. So now to the amp. The 985rb is not weak.It has smoked a speaker in its time, simply by overpowering it(beer helped). I am adament about the accuracy, attack speed and robustness that I love about Rotels, the 1072 cdp in particular is just right. So why do I need another make or another sound? Why not just improve the sound with more of the same? Hence, as I use a H/K receiver as preamp right now, get summore of what I like in the form of Rotel pre. Good price, like 700 or so, stereo only. I need to check the electrics for movies in Stereo, but movies are not especially important, watch then upstairs. By freeing up the H/K, that can go upstairs, and I add a small 5.1 later on, or use the Ling's and one of the subs from downstairs or whatever. So now I am looking at a pair of 703's and a preamp, with +++'s all around. Am I thinking now, Jan? My thinker feels better already! That scene is working for me, now to go hear the goods. The salesguy said no problem on a Saturday(I won't need much of his time, he could tell). Listen, think, listen, think. Thank you all for listening. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1341 Registered: May-05 | Nuck, I don't know why I just noticed this thread. I agree with Frank's last post and it's the approach I'm currently taking. It's the only way to really know what the end result is going to come out like. I have no idea what your budget is, but looking into the components, I have somewhat of an idea. You originally were kicking around the Mac tubes idea. Have you considered Mac ss? I listen to a lot of the same music you do, and have a special place in my heart for Mac's presentation. If I could afford to build a system that would do it justice, I'd buy a Mac ss integrated without any hesitation. The MA 6500 and 6900 are phenominal. SQ, build quality, re-sell value (not that I'd ever get rid of one except to upgrade to better Mac) are all probably the best their is within their price point. They've just released a lower model intergated for $3000 US. I haven't heard nor seen it yet, but Mac is very consistant with their house sound and build quality. I'd imagine their's some leeway with the price, seeing as how I was offered a brand new MA 6500 from a local dealer for $3100. I explained I was looking into re-doing the whole system over the next year or two, hence the discount. If I had $3100 to spend on it, I would have walked out with it a very happy man. The reason why I didn't buy it was because I knew I wouldn't have the money to build around it for quite some time, and would probably go broke due to not wanting to wait to save money for proper speakers and a source. However, your Silvers would be a significantly better match for the Macs and do them so much more justice than my Image T55's. You'd notice a lot bigger improvement using your speakers that I would using mine, and I assume you'd be able to wait and save a little longer than I would. I'd also look into Naim. If you like the Rotel sound, I think you'd probably love the Naim sound. IMO, the Naim gear I've heard sounds like what Rotel wishes they were. The forward sound and rockability, without any of the faults that I find Rotel has. Bryston makes great gear that I'd also love to own. They speak for themselves. My only reservation is that they don't make sources. I like the one brand approach to components. I've always found that the sum is greater than the parts. If I had enough money to be able to buy whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, I honestly don't know which I'd buy. I'd most likely end up with one of each systems. Also, being in Canada, have you looked into SimAudio? Another great company and noteworthy contender. It's fun spending other people's money. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1342 Registered: May-05 | Sorry Nuck, our posts crossed. If you really like what the Rotels in your set up are doing, I'd strongly consider Naim. It isn't cheap by just about anyone's standards. But it sounds so good, built like a tank, and will hold it's value better than just about anything else. Naim is also reportedly great at supporting their products. A lot of people get their gear serviced regularly by Naim. My research has lead me to believe most people get their gear re-capped every 10-15 years and their gear sounds brand new again. In my 'soul searching,' I've found while SQ is one of the most important reasons in the decision,it isn't the only one. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2836 Registered: Dec-04 | Stu, thanks for your input. I havn't posted my budget so far because A) It's a little lower than last week, and B)I thought I might stretch it. I have settled on 6500 cdn. The B&W's eat up a lot. If I can do the speakers and maximize the pre(pro)? I will have all the same product, as I agree with you 100% in brand synergy. I have one problem, thats the pre. The AVR right now gives me a sub out on everything I play, dvd, cdp, tv and I don't want to lose that. I guess I have to see the goodies myself and sort it out with the shop. Thanks again. Jamie |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1347 Registered: May-05 | If a new pre doesn't have a sub out, couldn't you use the speaker level inputs on the sub? I don't own a sub so I don't know the advantages/disadvantages with connecting them different ways. I'm in a similar situation in my 'soul searching,' but my finances are a little different. I'm most likely going to buy an integrated amp and CD player at the end of the summer, and new speakers next year. I can't get the Naim Nait 5i/CD5i combo out of my head. It calls me every night. I may save a few bucks and buy a Rega Mira 3 and Apollo, but will audition both side by side (same dealer) when I have the cash in my hand. I'm waiting to have the money in hand to be able to 'put my money where my mouth is' so to speak. If I had more money, I'd add McIntosh, Bryston, and Naim seperates to my list. If I were to do the whole thing at once, I wouldn't get the quality I'd get by going piece by piece. I've considered going integrated amp or seperates now, using my TT in the mean time, speakers next, and CD player further down the road. The drawback is I lack patience. If it's a 3 or 4 year plan, it most likely won't materialize. The integrated and CDP is the realistic way to go in my sick mind. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2840 Registered: Dec-04 | The integrated, yeah. I checked the Audio Fidelity 3.5 and it looked ok, but not exciting. As exciting as a black box with lights can be to the regular folks, we know better.(nudge nudge wink wink). I can't find the link to a post where the writer said a particular H/K was 'ugly as sin'. I agreed, and still do, just never considered it before. B&O, they are purrdy. Your brand synergy comment has stuck with me Stuie, if I can makr that happen, I just might. And I really, REALLY like the B&W look, did you see a pic of the 703's? |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1348 Registered: May-05 | I've seen and heard them countless times. They're a great speaker. I've heard that their's better out their for the same money, but haven't listened to much in that range. They sound awsome with McIntosh driving them. The 704 is less money, looks practically the same, and also sounds very good. I've heard them driven by Rotel seperates and was amazed how good and synergistic they sounded. That was the first time I really noticed what synergy was all about. When hooked up to a Marantz integrated, neither did anything for me. When the Rotel gear was hooked up to DefTechs, again, nothing for me. Then the dealer hooked up the Rotel seperates, your CDP, and 704's to demonstrate synergy. The sum was definitly greater than the parts. Have you heard that combo? It could be what you're looking for. I've also heard that combo with a Pro-Ject 1Xpression (the TT that I own) and was contemplating buying the Rotel/B&W set up. Dark Side of the Moon only sounded better on the Mac MA 6900/B&W 800 series/VPI set up. Not too shabby, seeing as how that system cost multiples of the Rotel/Pro-Ject/704 set up. I also heard the Paradigm Studio 100s with the Rotel/Pro-Ject set up. It was just as good and synergistic. It just sounded different. Actually, I think I slightly preferred the Studio 100s in that set up, but can't remember for sure. That may be another option as well. Also, after you figured out where you're going, would it be too much to give vinyl another shot? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2850 Registered: Dec-04 | The 704 is also available at the same dealer, maybe not on the floor, though, I will be sure and let the forum know how it goes. The vinyl is finyl, best left to someone else to fiddle with.New cartridge and i/c's but I couldn't balance a tonearm anymore than balance a ball on my nose, whilst clapping and barking like a seal. Nuff said. The balance of my vinyl will go with whomever gets the Dual. Setting up the aud for tomorrow, I'll be back! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2852 Registered: Dec-04 | Quite a successful trip today. The listening room was ready and I brought my cdp. I checked out the 703's and 805's. The first setup was with the existing 1070cdp and RC1090 preamp with the 703's. Very good sound. After aligning the speakers in a perfect triangle, I could appreciate the music beter. With SRV on 'crossfire' the initial guitar drag was immediate and effective, without the 'messiness' when the keyboards join in that bothers me now. The sound was very clear throughout the piece, and I got pretty much what I expected. Next was James Taylor from a greatest hits collection. On this one, I felt that the highs were a bit strained compared to listening at home, the guy 'Vince'needed a comparison, so we pulled out the rack and popped in the 1072. Although they should be very close, the 1072 eqased off on what I consider 'compression', and he agreed. A couple of cuts later, we put in the RC 1070 Pre, my unit in question. This combination was very simple, straight throught the pre and into the RB1070 2 channel amp, kimber to the speakers, which still had the binding strips on them. I found no difference between the pre-amps, another go at 2 repeat songs confirmed that. Then we wired up the 802's. These really are lovery standers, and very popular. The sound was very open and honest for JT to strum throughand have great dispersion, filling corners of the room much more easily than the 703's. But alas, standers are not my quest, but if they were, I would check out the 805's further. I have a lot of figguring to do. A few technical aspects will need to be worked out for this application. I'm gonna have a beer and read a book and try to put my thoughts together in a way that won't be too messy. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2854 Registered: Dec-04 | To recap. At present I am using a H/K AVR55 as preamp, proving pre-outs for the 5x100 Rotel power amp. The pre-outs from the H/K are .87v signal. The power amp is 1v input sensitivity. The receiver also puts sub-out to another receiver, which powers the 2x old subs. The new pre-amp http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rc1070.htm is output 1v sensitivy, matching the cdp and amp.Better. The preamp has 2 sets of preouts(for bi amping) and no subout or sub control. It also has a tonal control of high+3 or low +3, but no seperate tonal controls. This adjustment seemed subtle during the aud. However, the presentation of my player, the 1070 pre and the 703's was astoundingly well balanced, neutral and satisfying. These speakers had very little run time and were not broken in.My aud lavel was (we figgured) about 85 db, with no issues at all. Now then. My idea is to use one set of outputs for the sub receiver,hoping the controls there will tune the bass reasonably well. The other set of pre-outs will be 'y'ed off and input to 4 channels of the amp. I would then bi-amp the 703's. Remember the simplistic tonal control would now be the same on all 4 channels. Without great tone controls I would have to do the right thing and tune for my tastes with i/c's and speakers run selection. The dealer has lots of sample runs for me to try before purchase. Does anyone see a glaring omission of logic with this arrangement? Thank-you all. |
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New member Username: WilliemanPR USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Jun-06 | . |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 954 Registered: May-05 | Nuck, Sounds like you've gone about it the right way and found a sound you like. I'll look forward to stopping in and hearing what you've done sometime when I'm in Canada. Good luck, Dave. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2863 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Dave. I'm waiting for a few more opinions on my madness before I begin in earnest. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2866 Registered: Dec-04 | Just Daks? A collective shrug? Cmon folks, gimme some feedback, will ya? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4231 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck, Well, in theory.... But why make it so complicated? What's wrong with just using the sub crossover? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2867 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi John. The subs are passive and are powered by an older receiver with no bass management. I'm certain a powered sub is a good solution, but may send Mrs Nuck around the bend. Ideally, I wont need any sub with the B&W's, but I won't really know until they are placed in the room. Thanks, Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3373 Registered: Feb-05 | Though I'm not a big fan of the B&W 700 series I believe that B&W and Rotel have excellent synergy under most circumstances. You shouldn't need a sub with those speakers but stranger things have happened. Much luck on your quest Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2884 Registered: Dec-04 | thanks Art. Im kinda stuck, though. See the setup is amost straight through, and any less than a super quality source disc will be exposed.Badly. Further, as for the B&W,s I got a bone on looks alone.They are beautiful. They sound fabulous, particularly with the Rotel stuff. The tweeters carry the highs of the Rotel so well that James Taylors mid-high guitar plucks on *youve got a friend* works just as flawlessly as the lead bells on Rush *YYZ*. The James came fully from the mid-bass yellow driver of the B&W,s. Zeppelin4 was Gawd-awful! But the Zep was un-pledged!(still didnt find a brand name for the towels). Sorry for the typing folks, french keyboard. Bonjour from Quebec City. Merci! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4238 Registered: Dec-03 | I understand, Nuck. I am not familiar with the subs. Do they not have their own crossover? I used KEF passive subs and you connect one set of terminal to the amp and the other to the main speakers. The crossover was at 120 Hz if I recall correctly. It is usually better to connect subs, whether passive or active, at speaker level, instead of using the "Sub" LFE line-out channel |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2886 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi John. The subs XO somewhere to deliver about 40Hz or so on a test source.(and falling quickly)Cheap Sheib. If I do indeed find I need a sub, it will be powered, and for music. Anything I get for a film will be what I get. Funny, the 3 guys I worked with at the shop agreed that as the gear gets better, the need for more than 2 speakers begins to wane. They sell a bunch of stuff(Rotel, Adcom, B&W, Classe) tp people who want both uses, and most are happy with a well placed stereo pair for film. Seems to be a growing trend with the money spent. Its the splitting of pre-out feeding 4 amp channels that I wonder about, given that there are bohemian tonal controls available in the pre. I suppose there are line-lever gains available, but I am trying to go straight through as much as possible, but I is afeared of the lack of control. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1382 Registered: May-05 | Nuck - Glad to see you heard and liked the 700/Rotel combo. IMO, it's a great value if you consider the whole system. Their may be better speakers out there for the same money, but they almost always require pretty expensive amplification to sound right. The 700's are more forgiving in this regard in my experience. I've heard the combo plenty of times and haven't ever felt it needed a sub. Then again, I don't know your house. Unless your room acts like a bass trap, I think you'll be fine. As far as stereo with movies, I guess it depends on what you watch. I have no desire for surround sound. Sports, Seinfeld, and comedies don't really require more than 2 good channels as far as I'm concerned. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2890 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks Stu. Tv is listened to with tv. Just the workout video for the girls downstairs mostly. The room is a disaster for sound, but I have warned Mrs Nuck that things might move, and she said *finally* or something. I may need to hog out the cabinet under the RP tv and shelve the gear to keep the pricey speaker leads to a human cost. Movies will be ok wit the stereo, I bet, and if not...too bad, watch upstairs! The HK Avr and a sub will go up there to marry the Lings! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4244 Registered: Dec-03 | "Funny, the 3 guys I worked with at the shop agreed that as the gear gets better, the need for more than 2 speakers begins to wane." I agree with that. The active sub has been with us for a long time, but it has only become fashionable recently in order to provide the bass missing from home theater "satellite" speakers. Having full-range main speakers is best, but then you need a decent amp to drive them. For people who want surround sound, the 5.1 system delivers at less cost;- small speakers, modest amp/receiver powering five channels, and active sub to do the heavy work, on its own providing ambient bass from all channels. The idea is to simulate the sound effects of movie theaters, but at home. Music is a different objective, and I do not think we would have 5.1 if that is all people wanted. 4.0; maybe. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2907 Registered: Dec-04 | However, citing my above concerns, I may have another plan. The Rotel 1068 surround processor has way more stuff than I need, but is old enough to not bother with HDMI, which I do not need nor do I want to pay for. It does have A/B speaker selection, which would facilitate bi-amping more readily, and use the fader to balance the high and low, or not. The unit has analog straight through, and hopefully the quality would be on par with the basic streo preamp I had quoted. Input and output sensitivy and voltage, again, mate up perfectly with my cdp and amp. The unit also has bass management and sub out. I could easily use the spare channel of the 5 channel amp to power the passive sub, if required. Like I said, I don't need all the bells and whistles and a hockey card in the spokes that this unit has, but the flexibility and full tonal controls could be used if a subpar disc is in the player. I am backing off on the stereo only quality a bit, perhaps, but if had at a good price, the benefits seem worthwhile. Any thoughts? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2948 Registered: Dec-04 | ? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1448 Registered: Sep-04 | Nuck, Prepare for some more cold water...  I still think you're approaching the whole thing in a rather piecemeal fashion. Sorry. Preconceptions are a terrible thing. I found your comments about the 805s very interesting. You seemed to acknowledge their strengths but discounted them because they're standmounts. If you'd said 'need more bass' then fine, but to discount a potentially better sound because of the speaker format seems...odd. One very good thing that has happened has been that you have worked out a budget ($6.5kCDN). Have you asked your dealer (who deals in some interesting stuff it seems) what he would put together for $6000CDN or so? This might open up a different solution that really hits your buttons. In the above posts I see a lot of 'more of the same' stuff. Your latest post talks about introducing a processor with bass management, biamping etc. Yet a common point you keep making is to keep it strasight through, simple etc. Well, a 1068 with bass management etc. is not a simple way to go. Far simpler would be a cd player, integrated stereo amp and speakers. No sub(s), no filtering, no extra crap, possibly cables. The 1072 CD player is pretty good. The 703s are too big a proportion of your overall budget. They're a good pair of speakers, but they are finicky to get working in rooms because of their big bass and they like a powerful amplifier. Powerful amps that don't sound slow are expensive. Try to approach the system holistically. I'll bet your dealer would come out with a quite different system to the one you've considered so far. I appreciate you like the Rotel house sound, but I wonder if this is because it's familiar and safe (with respect). Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2986 Registered: Dec-04 | Thank-you, Frank. I do sseem to have thought myself into a quandry. Probably the biggest stumble so far is not the kit itself, but my music. The selection, yes, but the quality as well. The Zeppelin cd I played at the first demo is probably quite demonstrative of the SQ of a lot of my recordings. The straight through Rotel/B&W setup exposed the truth for all to hear. It was horrid. I am starting to doubt the quality of my discs and my hearing/appreciation as well. The processor would keep me in the general marketplace rather than 'upscale', where the outlay for cables,wires etc. would grate on me(and Mrs. Nuck as well). Another point that I have not touched upon, my lovely wife. Mrs. Nuck likes music, but is not nearly as enthusiastic as myself. Err, tone deaf comes to mind. So the whole thing is really just for me, which I need not apopogize for, but must consider. I have mailed the dealer as you suggested, to see what he comes up with. Thanks for your time. Nuck. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 114 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, work is killing me at the moment :-( I cannot wait until I get my liberty back (I will be as happy as a pig in mud...) So I don't have much time to provide a detailed $0.02 worth!!! Basically I agree with Frank, and I tended to glaze over a bit when you started to talk about processors and sub-woofers etc etc I guess I am a purist at heart ;-) Also don't worry 'bout cables, roll your own!!! I have done it and it works very well for me, and I think I am quite fussy. Actually I bought a $250 USD cable from HGA, just lately, and it was only a smidgen better than my DIY efforts. And the whole reason I bought a pre-made cable, was 'cos I was a little tired from my DIY efforts. My fingers always get sore after a major cable making session, I felt I deserved a break!! Also in terms of budget, my personal biases are always for a good source, good amp, and modest speakers, for me atleast produces a musical result. Because great amps can bend humble speakers to their will!!! This will be IMHO a much more musical result than a tail/speaker heavy system. Sorry for the incoherent rambling, but I would like to see you listen to something like this: 1) your rotel CDP 2) a Bryston pre-amp , with on-board DAC (connect the CDP digitally) 3) a Bryston 2-ch power amp 4) For speakers use what you already have Take a listen to the above and see what you think!!! For Bryston, substitute other Canadian super-amps at will eg SimAudio, Magnum Dynalab, or Classe' Best of luck!!! Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2988 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Rav. I wondered what happened to you lately, seems to be a lot of work! I will continue along and try to decide what I want to achieve. Bryston really does keep coming up a lot! |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 115 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, some more semi-coherent babble from me: I agree with what Frank is saying, but I am coming from a different angle. I guess what Frank says is be open minded and take a holistic approach, also solicit the advice of a good dealer. What I say is this: we would be lucky to meet people in the retail sector, that are as open minded, common sensical and good listeners like Frank. Great if it happens, otherwise need a good plan-B. I have had very mixed experiences with the Hifi retail trade down the years, some very good, some very bad. So I prefer, to take my hifi destiny in my own hands, especially down here in Aussie-land (it's a high priced hifi wilderness!!!). My best advice to you is take your time, don't rush, and listen to as much gear as you can. You are trying to 'take it to the next level'. But what if you/we/anyone does not know what that next level is? You need to scope out the teritorry so to speak, and figure out whats possible. hope this helps !??!!! cheers Rav P.S. workwise I have been a dummy and tried to push the envelope, so progress has its price!! I won't try to innovate ever again (probably said that last time I got burnt too!!) |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 116 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, one last thought from me, you made mention of the SQ for one of your Zeppelin albums. It has been my experience and key observations, that when many albums were issued onto CD in the early days of the medium, the quality of mastering was truly appalling, and I mean really bad man!!! This is one of the reasons why I am not yet ready to give up on vinyl, even though I do find it a pain in the rear-end. So if you are totally giving up on a vinyl front-end this will be something to bear in mind. Although of course truly good equipment will extract as much music as possible from the CD, even though it may be hampered by a poorly mastered CD as a starting point. cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1454 Registered: Sep-04 | Rav makes a lot of sense here. In fact I think we're coming from the same angle quite honestly. The reason I promoted the holistic approach was to allow the dealer to offer you a couple of options that he can put together so you can get a flavour of different solutions at around the money you wish to spend (?). Once you have an idea of the differences, you can figure out which way to build the system, but without an end-goal in sight it's much more difficult to do this. I disagree with Rav about taking your life into your hands and buying blind, but then I live in HiFi paradise! Incidentally, Bryston has to be better value for you Nuck because it's Canadian and suffers less from distribution costs. True too of Totem, Paradigm, SimAudio etc. Rav is also correct about early mastering. One reason why early eighties vinyl was often crap was that the digital masters were baloney, particularly true of DG. Anyway, the Led Zep original CD pressings were appalling. The 1991 Remasters were pretty good and last year's (or was it 2004?) reissues are truly masterpieces. I've compared the latest reissues to first pressings on vinyl (nice friend) in a system to make most people salivate and it wasn't clear which was better - they were that good! Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 117 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Frank, just a clarification, by taking things 'in my own hands', I did not mean to buy blind. I simply meant making my own decisions, as opposed to being guided by the dealer. cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1416 Registered: May-05 | Sorry to hijack Nuck... Frank - Led Zeppelin just re-released their library onto 200 gram vinyl. I've heard it sounds great. Have you heard it or anything about it? I've got some similar re-releases, and surprisingly some are better than the original. The Black Sabbath LPs on Earmark re-issue and a Doors LA woman on 180 gram re-issue sound better than my originals. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2998 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, guys. As a consideration, yes, I will have to redo my music collection. I have so many lame and more neglected pieces that it is a tad embarassing. This will have to be a consideration. I have mailed another dealer for more info and a few ideas. http://www.targethifi.com/ say these guys as well http://stevestv.com/ |
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Bronze Member Username: AudiocPost Number: 14 Registered: Mar-06 | Hey Nuck, Not to hijack the general flow of this thread - I live in your neck of the woods and would love to hear your opinion of targethifi and London audio. By the way, I hope this thread keeps going - it's quite interesting to follow the flow of ideas - please keep us informed of what's happening with your system. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3002 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi. IF. I tend not to comment on dealers specifically online. Good to know that you are around. Dan_the_man was around here too. Send me a PM, we can compare. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3006 Registered: Dec-04 | A furthwer comment to Frank and Rav, who mentioned price. As you know, typically, prices quoted online are in USD$. Manufacturers will often lower costs to dealers for exposure to the largest market, even on top flight stuff. Remember, too, that when the CND$ was sitting at .62 USD$, the picture was quite pretty for US and online pricing. Now that the greenback is tanking and the CND$ is at .92, the manufacturers are not making as much profit on product headed to the largest market. Therefore, price breaks are hard to come by, more than ever. This works the same for all Canadian manufacturers, Totem, Psb and all the others included. Even if the product is 100% sourced here, the defecit of exchange profit affects the prices everywhere. It's all a part of living next door to the '800 lb gorilla'. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 769 Registered: Feb-04 | Stu, The Classic reissues of the Led Zep catalog on vinyl are pretty good, better than most original pressings, which sound horrible for the most part. However, after going through 3 copies of LZ II (one of my favorite hard rock albums), I found an original pressing that sounds absolutely killer and clearly better than the Classic reissue. I don't know why and I don't know how one can tell visually whether the pressing is any good. If you want to save yourself the trouble of going through multiple copies for the rare great-sounding pressing, the Classic reissue is a good way of getting a good sounding copy. Nuck, I think you're on the right track in building a system around the speakers. Speakers seem to me to make the biggest difference in the sonic characteristics of an audio system, followed by front-end equipment and then amplification equipment. If you find the right speakers, then I think you're more than halfway there IMO. I also agree with Frank about taking a more holistic approach to achieve synergy (yeah, I hate that word too) in your system. Sorry to read you're giving up on vinyl. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3046 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, 2c. Yup, I gave the tt and all the vinyl to a guitar playing, rock loving kid I know. Hey, if its gotta go somewhere, thats the guy. Long live rock! |
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New member Username: ZenmasterbrianPost Number: 8 Registered: Jun-06 | Are there any forums for the electronics of home built audio equipment?? |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 956 Registered: May-05 | Geez like Rav, I've been in work hell, AND, we listed our house for sale and when I haven't been working, I was cleaning, razor blading windows, packing boxes, etc. The good news, the house sold in 6 days, the bad news, the house sold in 6 days. LOL Anyway Nuck, I have to agree with Rav and Frank here. I spent $3000 on speakers, pre/pro and new amp trying to improve HT and music as you know. Got the former, missed the latter until I separated the systems and I went very simple, integrated Fisher amp rebuilt by friend ($400), reconed 30 year old Altec Lansings ($30) and a very high end source, Arcam ($2300 new, purchased for $750 on Audiogon at three years old but literally still new, incredible shape) and interconnects off Audiogon ($100) and I'm still using standard issue wire for the speakers for now. The sound is heavenly. But, there's simply no comparison between the upstairs HT set-up and the 2 channel for music. Now, I was lucky, I had an experience EE friend with 30 years experience building his own highend tube systems, rebuilding speakers and figuring out how to get synergistic results from components BUT he hit a home run with my system. The point being that if you go and talk to someone who is knowledgeable, listen to a number of set-ups and don't rely solely on price to tell you what sounds good, you can take your set-up to the next level and still not break the bank, I think. BTW, TOOBS STILL RULE and you appeared to have ruled them out too soon. LOL Dave. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3053 Registered: Dec-04 | Daks, does your EE friend have contacts up here?LOL! |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 962 Registered: May-05 | Nuck, Has toolbox, will travel and he's a great guy with way too much knowledge, and no ears. Like me, too many misspent years in his youth listening to music at unbelievably loud levels. LOL Dave |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3084 Registered: Dec-04 | We find kindred spirits in the strangest places. Like Clinton, Iowa. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1462 Registered: Sep-04 | Stu, No, I haven't heard the 200gm LZ reissues. Quite frankly, they'd have to be pretty startlingly good to beat the convenience of the latest CD reissues. Nuck, I vaguely remember hearing good things about London Audio a frew years back - worth a look. As to the relative costs, I get where you're coming from about the export pricing, but the fact is that people are paying USD$2000 for Totem Sttafs here in the UK where they're USD$1300 or so in the US and something similar in Canada. The same will be true of Bryston and Sim Audio so they've got to be worth a look, just because of the distribution costs. After all, distributors have to eat and that's a cost over the units, whether coming this way or going over your way. As for italics, type this <i> to start the italicised section and then <\i> to end it. Replace the i's with b's for bold. Cheers, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1463 Registered: Sep-04 | If my message above is all italicised at the end, if you go to View Source in your browser menu, and then search for the word 'italics', you'll see the encoded version of my message. The banded i and \i on either side are the commands to get it to work... regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3101 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks for both posts, Frank. I have been looking around for dealers a bit, and have all but looked into London Audio in the last 6 months. It's time to do that, but to find the time is the hard part! Thanks again. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3422 Registered: Feb-05 | Nuck, July Stereophile has a review of the Revel Concerta F12 as well as a review of a Dali Ikon floorstander both at about the same price. Might want to check it out. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3149 Registered: Dec-04 | I'll look for the issue today, Art.Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3153 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi Art. I found a new dealer somewhat nearby(drive by going to airport). He deals Revel, but does not have the Concerta right now, back ordered filling US orders, but quoted 1500CN$ as list. Hmmm... However, they are a large place. What y'all think? http://www.alternativeaudio.ca/ I don't comment on dealers online, but will post for others to peruse. |
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Bronze Member Username: Dan_the_manLondon, Ontario Canada Post Number: 84 Registered: Jun-04 | hey Nuck have you been to sound and space on 335 horton in london, check out their website.. its under construction, but it looks like they sell MacIntosh.. They don't have a list of products yet, i don't have upgraditus or the deep pockets for MacIntosh, but perhaps since you seem to be striken with upgraditus, you should check it out and see what they have. It would be interesting for me too, since i also live in town. http://www.soundandspace.com/ |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3164 Registered: Dec-04 | I'll make around trip Dan. London Audio, Target and Sound and Space. Thanks. Never did that Rotel amp from Target, eh? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3425 Registered: Feb-05 | "What y'all think?" Niiiice! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3165 Registered: Dec-04 | Yes indeedie-doo! Will post after a visit! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4315 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck - I see from your link that Alternative Audio has an Audio Research VT 100 MK 3, under "used and demo". You could use that with your Rotel pre-amp stage.. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3169 Registered: Dec-04 | Thank you, John. The Rotel amp is what I have, wanting to upgrade the pre from the receiver I now use. I posted in DAC area on one set-up. Same store, Classe transport and dac. Did you see that one? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4319 Registered: Dec-03 | No, Nuck. I'll take a look. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4320 Registered: Dec-03 | Nuck; Sorry, I know little, except that Classé has a considerable reputation. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3339 Registered: Dec-04 | I have decided to try to build my new stereo system from the source up. I should be able to put a hold payment on the Classe transDAC today even before seeing it. I am not overly concerned with a big audition, as the units are well reputed and well built. Also, since the new kit will be substantially different from where I am now, my only reference will be the gear at the shop itself. I hope to be back for a Friday visit to the shop and likely take the goods home. A well informed leap of faith perhaps, but a good solid beginning, I hope. |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 29 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, Had time to spare and was reading this thread you began. You know that link you posted for Alternative Audio back on June 23rd? Well this is the first thing I saw in their web site... Used and Demo : Amplifiers Last Updated: Jul 7th, 2006 - 12:03:44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Classe CA-200 Stereo Amplifier List $3,500.00 / Sale $1,600.00 Made in Canada, the Classe CA-200 stereo amp gives you a lot of power with an almost tube-like feel. Our piece is in black, comes with all the boxes and is in excellent shape. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3344 Registered: Dec-04 | Yeah, saw that Mike, the guy there says Classe will be throught there, sooner or later, within 100kms, some of Toronto as well. I need to sort out the transDAC and pc/slim sources first. Waiting for a return call. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3352 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey all. I got to the shop today and had a bonerlicious time looking around. Great place! Lots of gear, especially tubes, and some monsters at that. I have never seen a Cary $7000 headphone SET amp. Now I have. It's perdy. However, the transDAC is there, along with the ca200 amp and the 50 series preamp is back in the store. The guy tried it and returned it for a Moon unit. I'm going back tomorrow to pick up some of it. I need to sort out the digital files with a card to input digital via coax into the DAC yet. No responses on the digital server listing here. Where is Berny when you need him? I need to figgur the IC and file type so as to add a pc or card into the mix. Moving along, though, with some fairly good componants as well. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3360 Registered: Dec-04 | For Chrissakes, would somebody say something?! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3450 Registered: Feb-05 | Hey that's how I feel about the ProAc Studio 110 thread so thoughtfully written by another forum member. Not to be I suppose........ |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3361 Registered: Dec-04 | Yeah but fuckit's a complete overhaul here! Art I followed the short proac thread, but it may be limited in exposure. I saw a bunch of Dyn's today, and wondered at the cost. $2500 for 140's!? No proac's there, but a beautiful shop, all the best stuff, I go back to listen. How's about the Classe setup? Huh? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3365 Registered: Dec-04 | The Classe gear is going into the tech shop for a going-over on the scope to meet specs. Seems the preamp had an issue in the balanced channel input. Repaired and re-warranteed. All the gear will be cleaned, checked and cleared to spec. Sweeet? Well, I be calling the Classe place in Quebec tomorrow for their scoop on the goods, with build dates and sn's. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 175 Registered: Mar-06 | Nuck, hey dude!!! Glad to hear things are moving along. I have been head down tail up shovelling sh*t for work, so I have not been keeping an eye on the forum. It all sounds very exciting to me. So do I understand correctly, you are taking the Classe' pre-amp, transport and DAC ? In the fullness of time I would like to hear how the trans/dac compares to your Rotel 1072 CD player, since that is a reasonable benchmark that I am aware of. (I have heard the 1072 CDP, and for the money, I like the sound and the respectable build of this unit.) Also the stuff with the PC files sounds like fun too. I am trying to get my work finished so that I can get my liberty back, but it can be a tough gig in hard times, when there is no honour in the workplace, and me being me I only realise there is a problem when I find a hatchet buried in my back. It is a diversion, but I gotta find a new way of doing things. all the best Rav |
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