Spikes?

Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 3683 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 13:04 GMT My long owned speakers have moulded rubber feet, and no provision for spikes. They are sitting on very thin carpet over concrete. In working on placement I have found the speakers to project a lot of bass around the room, not from the front or the ports, but just generally. If this is simply the cabinet resonating, it does so across the entire spectrum and does so with accuracy. If I mount the speaks on spikes, might the focus of the bass tighten up a bit? I looked at a fairly expensive and upscale set of Revel studios recently and they were on not so hard plastic spikes threaded into the base. I can't be sure if the engineer was partially isolating the units via the spikes or just maybe Revel cheaped out under these products. It seems to me the idea is to drive the points solidly and tightly to the floor. I can drill the cabs for spikes, I am unsure of how 'tight' I want to do this. I have tried them on pucks, bricks, etc. and not changed much, so planting them firmly is worth a try, just how firmly, I wonder?
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 3684 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 13:26 GMT http://www.revelspeakers.com/products/product-overview.asp?ID=2 These, BTW.
david pannell Silver Member Username: Davidpa Portland, Oregon US Post Number: 189 Registered: Nov-05	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 14:25 GMT Nuck, yes it will tighten things up ALOT, but Im not sure about the plastic spikes. The speakers I have owned in the past, and currently, have all used metal spikes. (dont know why) As far as how tight...........pretty tight, of all the speakers Ive had that used spikes, I could carry the speakers with em, they are made to be a solid part of the speaker, otherwise you wont be concerned about the resonating anymore, it will be the vibrating noises of something loose that will have you pulling hair! I am surprised though that when sitting on pucks things didnt tighten up, Could it be your concrete floor? Also, did you ever get your Servo subs?
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 3685 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 14:58 GMT Hi David, thanks for your response and good to see)?) you again. I will pick up hopefully a few more posts here(Tim?) and just drill, bang in threaded inserts with a bonding agent and find some metal spikes. The Revel thing must be an anomoly, as you stated, the idea is to put it down as solidly as possible. Actually, I thought about your 2 sub progress and solution when I looked into those Servo's. Since I have gone 2 channel and may stay there, those babies looked more and more like Jurrasic footfalls than Geddy Lee's opening riding E from Red Barchetta. I may yet add a sub, but not so much for a simple bass boost, but as a tonal for different recordings. The new stuff(I'm gonna keep it, probably) has no tonal controls, so a sub/up/volume/down/ solution is seeming better all the time. The pucks did little because A: Im not so bright, leading to B: I put the speakers on the pucks with the elastomers still attached, achieving nothing more than 1" of elevation. I'm claiming Budweiser on that one. Thanks again, hope you have time to check the 'After much' thread, I would appreciate all input, from yourself and all the other members as well. Nuck
david pannell Silver Member Username: Davidpa Portland, Oregon US Post Number: 190 Registered: Nov-05	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 15:12 GMT Look into the DD series from velodyne, you will find that musically they outperform the servos by a margin. If I wasnt married, with a kid who seems to play the most expensive sports, and the wife who likes to vacation in all the expensive places I would have the velodynes by now! All in good time! Cant find the "after much" thread? Lead me to the water would ya?
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 3686 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 15:20 GMT Amps..'After much soul searching' Indeed, your family and enjoyment must come first,however, if your kid learns to golf well, your retirement could be enviable! I would have said hockey first, but less concussions occur in golf. Unless you play one fairway across from me...another time perhaps!
Jan Vigne Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigne Dallas, TX Post Number: 8934 Registered: May-04	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 15:27 GMT . Spikes can't "isolate" the source of vibration. Certainly not from itself. Spikes and cones can isolate source components or pre/amplifiers from the vibration created by the speakers. Just not the other way around. The speaker's cabinet is being excited due to the pressure created by and the motion of the attached drivers. You cannot isolate or control these forces by using external devices attached to the bottom of the cabinet. The purpose of spikes is to mass load the speaker cabinet to the floor. The small point of contact places the large weight of the speaker's cabinet on a few very tiny points of focus, thus increasing the apparent mass each spike carries. (If the speaker doesn't possess a "large weight" spikes are probably not the correct approach.) This mass loading and the ability to level the speaker with adjustable spikes acts to lock the cabinet in space. The wobble factor is all but eliminated when spikes are properly installed. The speaker should feel as if it is bolted to the floor when spikes are properly installed and adjusted. This is the benefit of spikes. The more or less same function can be achieved with anything which places the mass of the speaker onto small points of contact. A reasonably sized ball bearing acts in the same manner since the contact point would be at the vector of the intervening surfaces. Of course, what ever you choose must not have any eleasticity to its structure or you defeat the purpose and, as you and Bud found out, just raise the speaker a bit. Your problem doesn't seem, from your description, to be a matter of wobble in the cabinets but rather a matter of resonance. Either in the speaker or the room. Spikes will address one area of performance and will probably prove beneficial to the extent spikes are intended. However, it would appear you have other issues which should be addressed. .
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 3687 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 15:53 GMT Jan, thank you for your input. I intend to follow through with the spikes, as the mass to loading is what I think I am having. At the very least, I can 'maximize' what I have before going too far with the room, so as not confuse things further before working with treatments, and doing something ugly. I have followed your links for room treatment, and am learning, so as to minimize ugly without overspending. This is a factor at the moment, which happens. Thanks, again.
Timn8ter Gold Member Username: Timn8ter Seattle, WA USA Post Number: 1041 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 16:52 GMT I think Jan's on the right track. The only way to correct cabinet resonance is to damp the cabinet. It would be interesing to hear what happens when you use the spikes and set a block of granite on top of the speakers (or something equally heavy and dense). Not very attractive but I wonder what would happen. A little off topic from the bass concerns. Room treatments: A neighbor of mine gave me a case of 2' x 4' x 2" Owens Corning fiberglass panels. I found some fabric agreeable to the spouse and hung three of them from my 11' ceiling where I felt I was getting some echo. It's amazing how much change can occur with one minor treatment in the right spot. Next, I'm consider room dividers as diffusers. http://www.orientalfurniture.com/oriental-furniture/RD.html?gclid=CLTAqOjzuYYCFQ RsWAodJ2lRQw
ctanaka Bronze Member Username: Musicluvr Post Number: 75 Registered: Apr-05	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 17:24 GMT Nuck, I think you're going the right way with adding spikes to your speakers. In my experience with several speakers, floorstanders and stand mounted, they were always better with spikes. I would consider this optimization a "must try" if not a "must do" in any system where sound quality is the quest, escpecially considering the cost/benefit factor. Also, be prepared to go through another round of adjusting the speaker position as the spikes can greatly affect the character of the sound. Since your speakers don't already have the necessary hardware for the spikes you have a choice of using 3-point or 4-point configuration on each speaker. 3-point is easier to adjust, but might be tippy. You will have to use your own judgement to decide if your speakers are wide/deep enough to support the 3-point configuration. 4-point will be more stable, but you will need to spend some time getting the adjustment just right, so that it feels like the speakers are bolted to the floor. You don't want any of that "table with a short leg", wobbly effect when you gently push at the top of the speaker. Also, with the 4-point configuration, you will likely need to readjust the spikes each time you move the speakers, even just a few inches, as most floors are not perfectly flat.
Michael Wodek Bronze Member Username: Mike3 Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 55 Registered: May-06	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 20:04 GMT Nuck, I will always defer to Jan, well mostly always, but one thing I tried with my Monitor Audio Siver 8i's which had 4 spikes was to go to a cones with pucks combo, 3 combos per speaker. I used the Black Diamonds. I thought it helped my sound. It also helped me get my new speakers as it was tipsy and when bumped... well you know the rest. I now have the Gallo's which came with 4 sonic cones on the bottoms.
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 3689 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 22:34 GMT Thank you all for helping out, the Forum is my go-to place for opinions other than just the one dealer I am working with. It shall be 4 points for the speakers, as they are a bit top heavy, tall and quite narrow. ctanaka, thank you for your considerations. Althou I usually level 3 ton machines, my good old laser and softfoot feelers will get them right. And, of course, the maximizing of these speaks will affect the speaker placement. I have not moved anything thus far, beyond toe, because if I lose my reference, I'm sunk. Thanks again. PS I will go back to the pucks again, seeing as my team has not needed them since the end of the regular season!
Rush Bronze Member Username: Eib_nation Ohio EIB Nation Post Number: 78 Registered: Jul-06	Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 04:49 GMT Way to go Tim! You should also consider 2'x4' by 4 inch thick panels to hang in the corners. Then take care of the first reflection points Left & Right, Front/Back(as room layout allows), and you'll really be in business. And yes, it's amazing how even partially treating a room can make a serious impact. It's a fact that every room needs room treatment. Enjoy
Rush Bronze Member Username: Eib_nation Ohio EIB Nation Post Number: 79 Registered: Jul-06	Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 04:53 GMT PS In reference to the spikes. I agree with the above. Spikes are all about making the speaker sit solidly & flat without a wobble. On thick carpet, I also think they reduce the tipping factor a bit.

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