Good speaker cables?
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Bronze Member Username: Xxraiderxx1, Ga Us Post Number: 27 Registered: May-06 | I've been looking all around the internet for info on speaker gables but the more i read the more confused i get .I' was gonna by some monster cable but the more i read the more i dont wanna buy them.I've read on how you could buy intension cord from home depot & make your own speaker cables .I'm gonna buy some klipsch synergy 3 speakers & a hk avr440 & a vedolyne subwoofer i thinks that how u spell vedolyne & to me its very expensive & i wanna know im getting the best out of my system & out of my money thanks 4 any help |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 8938 Registered: Dec-03 | The reason you are confused is because you have not yet settled on a camp. One which believe in wires making a diference and one which believe that wire is wire. Have you read this article? http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/cables.htm Be aware, though, that cable debates are very touchy and most are centered on cable interconnects and not so much as speaker cables. Most agree that a nice heavy gauge speaker cable will suffice, but it is still in debate.  |
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Bronze Member Username: Xxraiderxx1, Ga Us Post Number: 28 Registered: May-06 | I just read the the article and after reading it im kinda leaning towards the axiom audio cables and i think im in between both camps & that i think wires do make a difference but not a $400per wire difference also when i went to check there website i looked at there speakers do u know if any good & do u have any suggestions on other speakers or receivers that u think would be better then the setup im leaning towards ...thanks 4 the article link |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3614 Registered: Dec-04 | XR, I just yesterday changed out a set of speaker leads. Out with the Monster 12g and in with spool run Liberty 4 wire in 25ft runs. The improvement was immediate. I can recommend the Liberty 4 wire(KO Plus)of it's own virtues, but not over others which I have not tried. A good solder job on the terminals and some shrink wrap suit me just fine. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3615 Registered: Dec-04 | Sorry, buck a foot here. Cheap. |
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Bronze Member Username: Xxraiderxx1, Ga Us Post Number: 30 Registered: May-06 | hey nuck which would u suggest over the other kilpsch synergy3s f3,b3,c3 or axiom m60v2,m22v2,vp150v2 but with the m60v2 it has 4 wire inputs & ima noob to this bi-amping stuff would i need another amp in order to connect them to the receiver or do i have a choice to bi-amp or not ...did i mention ima NOOB |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3621 Registered: Dec-04 | XR, bi-amp is different than bi-wire. Bi-wire is simply two runs of wire instead of one. I suggest you leave the bi-amp to equipment that includes two seperate amplifiers, not a receiver. As a self-confessed NOOB(good for you), you really need to assess your priorities and more importantly, your budget. Get a grip on what you need/want and have a good look at your music listening habits. Fairly good stuff comes cheap these days, especially in the US. As for price and shopping, Edster will be able to guide you better than I, but take my word, if a set is not well thought out, yo may spend untold thousands to finally get where you thought you wanted to be in the beginning. Like taking a bus for 15yrs to finally arrive at the place that was only a short cab ride away. |
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Bronze Member Username: Xxraiderxx1, Ga Us Post Number: 31 Registered: May-06 | so what your saying is if i buy the m60v2 that has 4 wire conections just buy a cable with 4 ends on each side and connect it to the receiver terminal |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1706 Registered: Feb-04 | No, use normal wire. Simply, either leave the metal connector plates in-place, or remove them and strip your wires long enough to go through both posts on each side. |
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Bronze Member Username: Xxraiderxx1, Ga Us Post Number: 33 Registered: May-06 | thanks 4 helping me on that one but since ima noob i have another question .will a hk avr445 0r hk avr635 supply enough power to run the axiom speakers i listed |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 68 Registered: Jul-06 | Dont waste money on snake oil wire. You can buy 12AWG wire at Lowes by the foot for 38cents a foot. Dont bother bi-wiring either. Do yourself a favor and find a dealer who carries the Reference speakers. http://www.klipsch.com/locator/index.aspx You can do a zip code search to find a dealer near you. The Reference series is better than the Synergy, but they dont sell them at the big box stores. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3625 Registered: Dec-04 | Rush is huffing smoke. I am a living, breathing testament to the value of speaker wire, and didn't break the bank to prove it! I'm testing a huge Classe system right now(if you didn't notice, lol),and rewired the speakers yesterday. Huge, like 'what speakers are these?' type huge. This may display the inadequacies of the previous runs, which came from a big box retailer. |
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Bronze Member Username: Xxraiderxx1, Ga Us Post Number: 34 Registered: May-06 | Will the receivers i mentiond supply enough power klipsch or the axiom speakers |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3626 Registered: Dec-04 | Klipch can be powered by a potato. I offer no opinion on axiom's.(nice guys on the phone and offered me a tour). |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1707 Registered: Feb-04 | Nuck, did you also try refreshing the leads on your old wires and making sure they were well connected? I buy spools of 12 AWG for about C$50 for 100' myself. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 102 Registered: Apr-06 | 12AWG will do the job to be certain, but it doesn't look as nice as my Audioquest wiring! I can't claim to have heard any differences between it and the vanilla monster wiring I was using previously however, albeit the audioquest wiring I got isn't their highest grade by any stretch of the imagination nor am I quite the seasoned audiophile that some here are. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 8940 Registered: Dec-03 | The receiver you mentioned will be more than adequate to power either Klipsch or Axiom. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3636 Registered: Dec-04 | Busy clipping toenails, the moderator will be back later.The check is in the mail. Peter, I would not even try to comment on your wire selection or rec's over the net. I can only offer that the Liberty bi-wire was cheap and made a very big improvement on what I had. I have been running a lot of gear lately, this wiring setup is working very well for me, so I recommend it for anyone's trial. Your mileage may vary. |
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Bronze Member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 73 Registered: Apr-05 | xXRAIDERXx, Here's a link to a thread with links to some other cable suggestions as well as some pictures of the Home Depot stuff you might like to try. It is also one of the few discussions that didn't degenerate into a "YES THEY DO!" vs. "NO THEY DON'T!" shouting match. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/221277.html Nuck, I see you have become a speaker cable "believer". It's pretty amazing what can happen with the right gear and careful setup. So, what are your plans for interconnects and power cables? |
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Silver Member Username: EramseySouth carolina United States Post Number: 481 Registered: Feb-05 | http://www.pacificcable.com/picture_page.asp?DataName=255-510CL |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3644 Registered: Dec-04 | ctanaka, I don't think I was a 'nonbeliever' before, just never bothered to changeout the wires until I neede some floor runs to move the speaks around to test the room. Old wires were run through the ceiling, and in fact, were spliced(I had forgotten) Tip*Do not splice speaker runs* The IC's right now are Sonic Link XLR's, but with one set of Sonic Link unbalanced cables in there for now. Power cords are stock kief. |
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Bronze Member Username: PointeOttawaCanada Post Number: 35 Registered: Jun-06 | For those who aren't believers in expensive wire, do you feel the same for bi-wiring? Should I be using wire specifically designed for that purpose, or is there something at Home Depot that stands up just as well, in your opinion? I may be picking up some Totem Arros, and would be my first bi-wirable speaker. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 106 Registered: Apr-06 | While I'm uninterested in cable debate, the non-believers typically believe that bi-wiring (as opposed to bi-amping) is a load of bs too. Its one of the top 10 lies from theaudiocritic.com among others. http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf As for biwire cables, it is easy enough to make your own, although they may not look as nice as the professional jobs. Just run two cables from the same output on your amplifier to the two terminals on the speaker. |
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Silver Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 107 Registered: Apr-06 | Also of note, generally speaking the advice i hear is that a single run of better quality cable is better than a biwire run of inferior cable from those that do believe in Kimber, Cardas,etc. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1717 Registered: Feb-04 | Peter, I would not even try to comment on your wire selection or rec's over the net. rec? So I can assume you had connectors on the end of the old wires, making my question moot? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3649 Registered: Dec-04 | Oops, the rec would be on my end, not yours, sorry. I just find the wiring selection to be such a personal preference that it has to be tried live, thus the reluctance. Old wires were bare, no termination, but wicked with 80/20 solder. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1720 Registered: Feb-04 | Okay. It's just that sometimes the simple act of reconnecting everything and getting everything tight makes all the difference. So sometimes when people try new wires, they aren't comparing old and new wires as much as an old and recent connection. Just making sure, that's all. |
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Silver Member Username: PraetorianCanada Post Number: 324 Registered: Dec-05 | Geoff, since you asked for a non-believers perspective on bi wiring, I have found through experimentation (personal not scientific) that you get the same results by replacing the connector plate with the same wire (or I suppose you could strip away the insulation from a single run to be extra long and running it through both posts). |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3655 Registered: Dec-04 | The binding plates are for store display only.Well and to allow the thing to work. Replace with wire, but run the hot lead to low+ and the soft lead to high side -. |
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Bronze Member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 74 Registered: Apr-05 | Nuck, "The binding plates are for store display only.Well and to allow the thing to work. Replace with wire, but run the hot lead to low+ and the soft lead to high side -." I've seen this suggestion before, maybe here on this forum, but have not heard of any explanation for doing it. Neither have I heard any description of the sonic benefit. I tried this myself and did not like it. I'm not saying that it would sound bad in anyone else's system. Mainly, I'm just curious. |
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Gold Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 1040 Registered: Dec-03 | "but run the hot lead to low+ and the soft lead to high side -" Can't imagine. All you've done is taken two separate circuits and tied the inputs together with a common ground. I can't see it making a difference where you plug the speaker cable in at that point. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1734 Registered: Feb-04 | If anything, it seems you'd want to connect to the woofer posts since that part will be sucking up most of the current (so less current to go through the connector leads). |
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Bronze Member Username: JawPost Number: 27 Registered: Mar-06 | The Great Debate. Dynaudio owns both a unique approach and probably consensus Audiophile (which I'm not) credentials. Below is their spin from their portal- >>BI-AMPING / BI-WIRING: Why is this not an option with Dynaudio loudspeakers? Dynaudio loudspeakers are a carefully fine-tuned combination of woofers, tweeters, cross-overs and cabinet construction. A Dynaudio cross-over is an advanced circuitry using select components to achieve a truly balanced and natural frequency response, as well as a stable and linear impedance that makes the loudspeaker an ideal load to the amplifier. Therefore, dividing the frequency sections through bi-wiring (two separate cable runs for high and low frequencies) or bi-amping (two separate amplifiers and cable runs for high and low frequencies) is neither beneficial nor optional, as it would alter the balance and affect the impedance character of the loudspeakers and serve no audible benefit. Thus Dynaudio also avoids the need for sound-affecting metal bridges between bi-wiring terminals. Bi-Wiring generally does not automatically lead to a better sound, as one single high quality loudspeaker cable will provide a better sound quality than two lower quality cable runs at the same price. LOUDSPEAKER CABLE: Which cable connection does Dynaudio recommend? The impact a loudspeaker cable can have on sound quality may be dramatic, though in general quality cable products will yield a quality result. Dynaudio loudspeakers are designed to be very neutral and thus are not extremely suited to any particular type of cable. The choice of cable is as much a factor of matching the cable to the individual loudspeaker model as to the entire audio system, the room acoustics and last but not least depending on your personal taste in sound character and music style. Therefore, any general recommendations for a specific kind of cable type, principle or product cannot accurately be made. Additionally , there is a very wide range of different products available on the market, which makes offering suggestions even more impossible. Please consult your Dynaudio dealer for information about compatible loudspeaker cables that will suit both your electronics and the Dynaudio loudspeakers as they have more experience in this area. In many countries, the OCOS loudspeaker cable is available through Dynaudio dealers and has been recommended in several demos and set-ups. More information can be found at www.ocoscable.com.<< Any comments as to their binding post configuration and engineering? I don't know, that's why am asking. |
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Silver Member Username: PraetorianCanada Post Number: 328 Registered: Dec-05 | That strikes me more as an attempt to avoid offending the dealers who carry their products vice taking some stance. In fact, it seems to neatly avoid the need to have an opinion. Basically they said, "You will have to talk to the guy who make money of that crap to find out which one is "best" for you..." They don't even commit to anything really: "The impact a loudspeaker cable can have on sound quality MAY be dramatic..." "...though IN GENERAL quality cable products..." There are good and bad cables this is never really the dispute, the debate is the affect cables are suppose to have/not suppose to have, on the sound coming out of your system. Ideally, it should not have any, it is ONLY the medium through which the amplified signal travels (active speakers not withstanding). The good and bad speaker cables are divided by things like capacitance, inductance, resistance, purity of conductor, etc etc (no doubt there are a few other things). When people start looking for their cables to be altering the signal in some way, nothing GOOD is happening. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3673 Registered: Dec-04 | It matters. |
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Silver Member Username: PraetorianCanada Post Number: 332 Registered: Dec-05 | To each there own my friend! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3674 Registered: Dec-04 | yup! Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3675 Registered: Dec-04 | However, look at the investment here. The liberty 4 wire I am using made the difference between maybe keeping a kit and maybe looking elsewhere. Now, yes, the stuff cost $1 a foot at the shop, as compared to 50c at depot or whatnot. Considering how much most us value our music, and how much time we spend here talking about music, doesn't it seem a bit odd that we wouldn't all go and try some cables to find out for ourselves? Total investment like 20-50 bucks. Guys a 38buck upgrade is one we would all rave about. |
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Bronze Member Username: JawPost Number: 28 Registered: Mar-06 | Think it was Descartes: "I hear, therefore, it is." |
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Bronze Member Username: JawPost Number: 29 Registered: Mar-06 | No, it was Elmer Fudd; either way, it's probably still a truism. |
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Silver Member Username: PraetorianCanada Post Number: 338 Registered: Dec-05 | Nuck, I am not sure, but it is possible we are merely disagreeing on semantics. Whether or not there is a huge difference between 50c/ft and 1$/ft is probably debatable, BUT TO ME the difference between the two is negligible, you clearly find the investment worth it, and I do not shake my head at that. In other words, the two speaker cable types sound too much the same to my ears to justify paying more. BUT, what I am really talking about is these 10$/ft, 100$/ft and yes I have even seen 2k$/ft (or maybe it was 2K/meter...)! The so-called "sonic properties" of these cables IS "snake-oil". It is indeed quite possible that they do affect the signal, but I promise you no cable in the world "adds" to the signal, they can only distort or take away. Now you cable magicians may want to jump on that and say they "take away noise, or interference" or whatever, but that is not what I mean, I mean degradation of the signal by "take away". So, to sum up my point, I wholeheartedly agree that some cables are better than others, and to a certain point, production costs to gain the purest copper, silver, whatever, lowest capacitance, highest induction blah blah will drive the price up, and I also concede that the point of diminishing returns varies on a individual basis. None of that changes the fact that super slick jackets to eliminate "skin effect" (in stranded wire of all things) or pre-treating them with nitrogen to turn them into super-conductors, placing a power source on one end, or pre "burning-in", the list goes on, to turn these cables into some kind of sonic booster that "colours" your music is hooey. Anyway, I stick to my old story too: to each there own. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3677 Registered: Dec-04 | Michael, we are agreed. Without getting into diminishing returns, I offered my very fresh experience for the Forum,s use and nothing more. I would blush at a speaker wire costing 10$/30cm. My offer was simply that yes, a good wire is better than a lesser one, and the Liberty is a solid offering at a good price. I offered the further observation of worthy investment to make sure that our friends do not toss away the importance of speaker wire quality and connectivity, only because I have experienced,A/B a very good product at a very good price for all of us to enjoy, should you wish to try. T'aint no thang, just tossing out a good one when I find it. Ya Mon. |
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Silver Member Username: PraetorianCanada Post Number: 341 Registered: Dec-05 | Sweet, and in the end, that is indeed what these forums are all about. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3679 Registered: Dec-04 | THAT, Mike should be our banner. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1541 Registered: Sep-04 | Cables count. Some cables make systems, some break systems. Nuck - you should hear the cable I've just installed in my system - awesome! As is the price!  Regards, Frank. |
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