Klipsch RF-5 vs Paradigm Studio 60 v3 vs Studio 100 v3
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New member Username: MikewPost Number: 2 Registered: Jul-06 | Hi, I would like to put some questions I have regarding my Home Theater options. I will highly appreciate if you can let me know which one will be better for my Home Theater Usage. My usage is 75% HT and 25% Music. Some of the criteria i have are: 1. Reasonably efficient speakers that can be driven by any $700 reciever preferably. But I am also open to adding a 2 channel power amp like NAD C272 ($400 used, 150 watts/ch 4 and 8 ohms) for the front speakers. 2. The Home theater set-up needs to have very good effects and real slam. I have the budget to add a SVS / HSU sub ( $800 ) 3. A good center channel speaker that reproduces dialogues and blasts efficently. Basically dialogue needs to be heard properly ( Paradigm CC570 vs Klipsch RC-7 vs Paraidgm CC 470 ) 4. Finally a decent system musically. I will be using this 25% of the times for music. I like good vocals, instruments, strings etc 5. I heard that CC570 is timbre mathed with studio 100s and CC470 goes with studio 60s. Is this true ? I was thinking we can match CC570 with studio 60s as well ( basically looking for best center channel speaker ). Highly appreciate your input and guidance Thanks Mike |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 49 Registered: Jul-06 | I've listened to both Klipsch and the Dig'ms, and Klipsch won easily. The new Klipsch Reference line is excellent in that price range!! Give it a few minutes, and there will be plenty of Dig'm fans posting to disagree. LOL Why would you consider anything other than SVS?? Dollar/dollar, SVS blows HSU out of the water! Ok, that should get the ball rolling  |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3468 Registered: Feb-05 | The Paradigm Reference Series speakers are in a different and better league than the Klipsch. But I would not drive them with a $700 AVR it's a waste of good speakers. If you're more interested in crashing and booming than accurate reproduction of music and movies then I whole heartedly recommend the $700 AVR + Klipsch + SVS route. "I heard that CC570 is timbre mathed with studio 100s and CC470 goes with studio 60s. Is this true ? I was thinking we can match CC570 with studio 60s as well ( basically looking for best center channel speaker )." True. Having owned similarly priced subs by Hsu and SVS I can tell you that the Hsu reproduces bass more accurately than the SVS. However as I stated above if you want more boom I would look at the SVS. You may want to consider Outlaw separates and the Paradigm + Hsu route. Better sound at a reasonable price. Good luck! |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1679 Registered: Feb-04 | The only time I've heard a Studio 100/60 setup, it sounded bad: no soundstage, no dynamics and muddy bass. I assumed it was the room, but boy was I disappointed. And I'm Canadian too! I'm a Klipsch (Heritage line) fan myself. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3469 Registered: Feb-05 | Klpsch Heritage and the other Klipsch ain't similar. Probably had poor electronics on Paradigm's. Read the most recent "Sensible Sound". Excellent review of the Studio 100v3. |
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New member Username: MikewPost Number: 3 Registered: Jul-06 | Art, Thanks for your view points. Can you please clarify whether 60s or 100s would be your preference if the room size is 16 x 20 ? That is the room size i am looking at and wondering whether it needs to be 60s or 100s. Also, for HT, do you think Klipsch does not reproduce movie effects accurately ? I kind of think Paradigm might be a better choice for Music. For me it is 75% Movies. For Paradigm 60s and 100s, do you think a Harman Kardon AVR 445/435 reciever coupled with NAD C272 ( 150 watts / ch ) amplifier is not good enough to drive ? Thanks Mike |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3470 Registered: Feb-05 | If a speaker is not particularly accurate to the source it won't matter what the source is it still won't be accurate. I think that the Klipsch speakers aren't bad for HT though I can think of a number of brands that I would rather have. How loud do you want to listen? How high are the ceilings? There are a number of variables which could influence how much speaker you need. What will you use for rears? "For Paradigm 60s and 100s, do you think a Harman Kardon AVR 445/435 reciever coupled with NAD C272 ( 150 watts / ch ) amplifier is not good enough to drive ?" No doubt that the combo you are looking at would drive either speaker but it would not give you the best performance (who can afford the best anyway, I can't). I believe that the AVR you've suggested with an NAD (or Rotel) power amp combined with Studio 60's, Studio ADP's (for movies or Studio 20's for music), the CC470 and a Hsu VT3 sub would make a very convincing home theater. It really is up to you to go out and hear as much gear as you can to make an informed (with your ears...the only way to really be informed) choice. There really are a lot of speakers that are suitable for HT use. |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1213 Registered: Feb-05 | IM BAAAAAAK!!!!!! I am really interested im why the paradigm refs did not have a soundstage peter... I am staying out of this one... I am a fan of the paadigm refs, and have taken liking to the RB5-II, which is a model in the older reference line. True, the paradigm refs refs have a different sound than the klipsch refs, but it is a difference that I can appriciate. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 54 Registered: Jul-06 | Wow, that didnt take long. LOL Based on the above comments, it appears that many believe that anything with horns sounds harsh. I guess it isnt possible for everyone to be enlightened. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1684 Registered: Feb-04 | :-) |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 55 Registered: Jul-06 | I hope art doesnt base his reviews on the same amount of information as edster. I happened to stumble on this thread, and it gave me a chuckle. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/249280.html If you go to the link he provided, you can view all the reviews he's made on that site. http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AT6CZDCP4TRGA You have to love reviews that begin with "Heard this at my local Costco today" Seeing comments like above, and edsters EXPERT Costco reviews make me wonder if Art has even seen or given the new Reference speaker a real demo. I'll bet he's never seen nor heard them, but he "heard from reliable sources" that they were harsh. LOL |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 57 Registered: Jul-06 | Or maybe his review begins with "heard the synergy speakers at Best Buy today". hahahahahahahahahahahah |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1241 Registered: Feb-05 | rush, art OWNES paradigm refs, both the 20's and 40's... so think before you type :-P |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 92 Registered: Apr-06 | Seems people just can't get along...Everybody knows that speakers are filled with tradeoffs. An acceptable tradeoff to one person might not be acceptable to another. Both Klipsch and Paradigm are fairly popular brands, so they obviously both do something right. The question is, which ones does what is right for you? The answer: Klipsch!!!! |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1685 Registered: Feb-04 | Rush, man, take it down a notch. No need to get on the offensive. I'm glad to have another Klipsch fan around, since I usually feel all alone, but there's no need to attack Edster or Art. Gavin, I haven't been back to the house where I auditionned the Studio 100/60 setup. The ownwer expected my jaw to drop, and when it didn't perhaps he didn't appreciate it. I did spend some time to explain what to listen for, and tried to tweak his setup. If you got much closer to the front speakers and toed them in a bit, the room effects would decrease and you'd begin to get a bit of a soundstage. But it was rather amorphous. We pulled in my Carver m4.0t but it didn't make a difference at all. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3474 Registered: Feb-05 | Thanks Peter. Paradigm speakers require a long break in and often don't sound very lively until that time. We all have different preferences and Mike asked for input which is what I gave. Sorry Rush if this doesn't feed your need to start trouble but life's too short. |
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New member Username: MikewPost Number: 4 Registered: Jul-06 | Art: Do you mean CC570 can not be used with Studio 60s ? Can I use Studio 20 v3 instead of ADP 470 for surround speakers ? I really wanted to have studio 20 V3 as I read that they are very very good speakers for Music and I might as well use them as my surround/rear speakers (At this point I am strictly considering a 5.1 system only..May be I canmake it a 7.1 in the future..but not now ) Thanks Mike |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3475 Registered: Feb-05 | No Mike the CC570 can be used with the Studio 60's and will sound very good. But there is no need to spend that much as the CC470 is a good match. As I stated above the Studio 20's make great surrounds (and also served as my mains in a tube based 2 channel system and sounded very good). Good luck Mike. Remember get out there and listen to as much gear as you can it's the only way to be sure of what meets your needs. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 59 Registered: Jul-06 | Gavin, I dont doubt his knowledge about the Dig'ms. I happen to think he's clueless about the world of Klipsch. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3477 Registered: Feb-05 | I have access to and have listened to just about every brand of speaker you can imagine. I have spent countless hours auditioning speakers over the years. The Northwest where I live is one of the best regions for audio in the US. Others have doubted and even had the cajones to call some of the dealers that I frequent just to see if the auditioning policies that I have stated were for real. They were surprised to find that indeed they had made as s es of themselves and that I do know of what I speak. But again life is too short for me to give a rip what you think. Gavin I no longer own the Paradigms. I now listen to ProAc's. BTW Rush I listened to my first pair of Klipschhorns in 1972...were you born yet. |
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New member Username: MikewPost Number: 5 Registered: Jul-06 | Hi, I did not intent to start a war of words between Klipsch backers and Paradigm supporters. I really would like to keep this a guiding discussion for folks like me who are confusued between these two great choices for HT. Art: What tube based system were you using with Paradigm Studio 20 v3s ? Do you have any specific recommendations ? The sensitivity of studio 20s is 90 db and needs amp that can deliver 15 - 150 watts. So studio 20s need a decent amp. Can Tube Integrateds drive these ? Regarding Klipsch RF-5 / RF -7, sensitivity is very high like 99 db and 101 db respectively. Particularly with RF-5, impedence drops is not an issue. SO I am very confidently expecting that tube integrateds can drive RF-5 very easily. Did any try tube integarted amps with Klipsch speakers and in-case anyone tried with RF-5s? If so can you please let me know your expereinces with tube integrated amps for Klipsch, I will highly appreciate it. Thanks Mike |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 60 Registered: Jul-06 | Art, So you're telling me that internet message board people have called your various local hifi-haunts to check up on you to verify that you've been properly auditioning various equip that you speak of? LOL Do you realize how funny that sounds?? Please explain to me how your experience with the '72 K-horn is relevent to the discussion here?? (yes, I was alive ) I thought the comparison being made was between the newly released Reference line verses the current Studio series?? Are you claiming to be the klipsch expert because you first listened to K-Horns 30+ years ago? ------------------------- "The Paradigm Reference Series speakers are in a different and better league than the Klipsch." "If you're more interested in crashing and booming than accurate reproduction of music and movies then I whole heartedly recommend the $700 AVR + Klipsch" ArtK ------------------------------------------ I happen to know you're talking out of your @ss, because if you knew anything about the Klipsch speakers in question, you would not have made the above clueless statement. How can you expect NOT to be called out after making such a silly & inaccurate statement? The RF83 sells at similar price points as Studio 60s & 90s. So are you now going to blatently claim that your're a RF-83 expert, and that's how you came to the above conclusion?? Or are you just making wild assumptions based on past experiences with discontinued Klipsch models? |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1690 Registered: Feb-04 | discontinued Klipsch models They still make the Klipschorn Rush. It's the flagship. I gather they always will make it. f you're more interested in crashing and booming than accurate reproduction of music and movies then I whole heartedly recommend the $700 AVR + Klipsch Ouch Art. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 61 Registered: Jul-06 | Peter, The comparison Art made was between the Klipsch Reference series verses the Dig'ms. (not the K-horns) His credibility has to come into question if he's going to make dumbfounded statements like the above. It's one thing to state your preference of Digems, but quite another to say the above. His statements were, in fact, laughable. If you believe Digms sound better, thats fine, but I'm going to doubt his credibility if he's going to make absurd statements like the above. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3478 Registered: Feb-05 | Rush, you can ask Edster or go ahead and PM him, he did indeed call one of my haunts and he isn't the only one. You can choose to believe what you want. I matters none to me. You continue to put words in my mouth relative to the Klipsch speakers. When I stated that I first heard the Klipsch speakers 30 some odd years ago it is to show a history in audio and with that brand name not anything else that you may assign to the statement. And Rush I'm probably no more a Klipsch expert than you are a Paradigm expert. I auditioned them and didn't like them that is my preference and believe that Mike asked us for our input. Hopefully you can comment on audio at some time in the near future as your rant is growing tired. Peter, you know that I have always enjoyed the old Klipsch speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 95 Registered: Apr-06 | Mike: Tubes can indeed drive Paradigm Reference speakers. Keep in mind that wattage is only one part of the equation. Also keep in mind that for every doubling of wattage, you only get a 3dB increase in output. So the difference between say a 70wpc HK and a 35wpc tube system really isnt all that much. The difference between the Klipsch RF-5's sensitivity and that of the Paradigms would be much more significant; either one should get up to more than acceptable volume levels however. As for tubes w/ Klipsch, you might check the Klipsch forums for people with experience in that regard. As far as Klipsch vrs Paradigm goes, they go about things in a very different manner. I can't really say that Paradigm does much wrong to my ears. They have a balanced, fairly detailed sound to them. Are they perfect? No; but it is that balance, their superb imaging, and detail that gives them their reputation. Conversely, Klipsch's chief positive quality is dynamics. Art isn't too far off when he says if you want to crash and boom, Klipsch is for you. Particularly once you get up into the RF-5 range, there aren't many speakers that can match its punch while retaining finesse. I don't think too many people will say that Klipsch lacks detail either; most would say they are a bit on the bright side (tubes/a solid power supply does help with this). However, that brightness does not appeal to a lot of people, and people do complain about the balance of Klipsch designs. Like with most things in life, its a trade off. You will never quite get the slam of the RF-5's if you go with Paradigm, and you'll likely never achieve the balance of the Studio 60's with the Klipsch. Suffice it to say, both speakers are excellent. If I had either one in my house, I wouldn't complain. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1697 Registered: Feb-04 | Good post Stephen. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 62 Registered: Jul-06 | "Rush, you can ask Edster or go ahead and PM him, he did indeed call one of my haunts and he isn't the only one." Art, My apologies. I didnt realize we had psychopaths who participated on the ecoustics forum. I thought your comment was hilarious, but now that I know it's true, it's almost more funny in a sick and demented kind of way. LOL |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3578 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey Rush, don't be too complacent...I phone people sometimes when I am bored. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 64 Registered: Jul-06 | Nuck, So where do you shop for audio gear? I feel the sudden urge to call them to make sure you arent making stuff up |
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New member Username: MikewPost Number: 6 Registered: Jul-06 | Art: What tube based system were you using with Paradigm Studio 20 v3s ? Do you have any specific recommendations ? Thanks Mike |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3480 Registered: Feb-05 | The same system that I have now Mike minus the ProAcs. It's in my profile. It sounded very good. Rush, it's all good...no hard feelings, we have a difference of opinion on some speakers. In the grander scheme...who cares, right. Hey, if we all like the same stuff life would be a bore. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3583 Registered: Dec-04 | Bet you wish you hadda found that I/C thing earlier, Art. Or maybe not? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3481 Registered: Feb-05 | In all fairness to Edster he was checking to see if the customer service that I had been reporting relative to the retail establishments I frequent was real or not....he found out that it was indeed. I'm not that makes it any better but there it is. The others....who knows..... |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3482 Registered: Feb-05 | The last sentence should read. "I'm not sure that makes it any better but there it is. The others....who knows....." |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3592 Registered: Dec-04 | The shadow knows... |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1249 Registered: Feb-05 | oops :-) my bad... thought you still had your studios too lol |
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