Denon 2807 vs Harmon/Kardon AVR 645??
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New member Username: PierresayadPost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-06 | OK all you home theater gooroos -- question: I am purchasing the ORB MOD 2 as a satellite speaker system and now, need a receiver to run them. I've narrowed down my choices to the denon 2807 or hk 645. Both have enough power, both have HDMI switching, and both have ipod and XM capabilities. The Denon is awesome reviews everywhere, but the HK looks MUCH nicer!! Does anyone out there have any advice or experience with these receivers? Thanks for your help! Pierre |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4289 Registered: Mar-05 | I heard the Denon 2807 along with a Yamaha 2600 and a Pioneer Elite 72/74 a few days ago at Tweeter. Now this could have been brand prejudice at work since it was not a blind listening test, but I felt the PE had a warmer, more musical sound quality than the other 2. Not that the Denon and Yamaha sounded BAD in any way, just kind of sterile and bland for music. I'm sure any of them would be fine for HT though. Though to be honest, with Orbs I think either receiver is way overkill especially if this is mostly HT you're doing. I would go no higher than $400-500 if you want bells and whistles, for simple SQ the digital switching Panasonic sa-xr55/57 would be plenty. |
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Bronze Member Username: JethroLansing, Mi Post Number: 98 Registered: Jan-06 | listened to the denon 3806 vs PE 74 heads up at local shop in stereo only pushing b&w 604s3's. No comparison, PE won hands down man. PE more musical, filled the room better, and less artificial sounding if thats even a term in this hobby. I just had the dealer go back and forth between the two receivers, matching the volume levels and was simply amazed at how much better the pioneer sounded in all facets in stereo. Im not saying that the pioneer is great for stereo by any means, just that the denon lacks hard compared to the PE in this department. I own a denon 3805 and an h/k 525 receiver atm. I bought the 3805 to replace the 525 after reading some reviews. I'm disappointed in my "upgrade" to denon because I prefer my h/k sound. I now have my older h/k 525 doing sound detail while my denon collects dust in the closet. Bottom line, I would go with an H/k or pioneer elite receiver and nothing else if i had to do it over again and would never look back. Yes, my a/b comparisons were only for stereo in the shop, but i'm a firm believer that denon, h/k, and PE all do a fine job at processing HT, so i think my comparisons are righteous enough. That said, my ears are young, put yours to the test. If you buy a pioneer and don't like it, i'll trade you  |
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New member Username: PierresayadPost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-06 | Edster and Jeff, Thank you both for your input. Interestingly enough, you both say that the PE has a warmer/musical sound than the denon. My only issue with HK or PE is I don't know how good their HDMI switching will be... 1080p? I was all over the Denon 2807, but you guys have definitely put some doubts in my head! Thanks again, I just have to continue reading and researching. Pierre |
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Bronze Member Username: Mikemv1977Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada Post Number: 37 Registered: Feb-06 | If your looking for a system that can do 1080p HDMI switching, I would have to recommend the Yamaha that is reviewed in this article. Lots of bells and whistles. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1486 Not trying to change your mind on anything, but I keep coming across this receiver in many articles I have read recently. I own a Denon 3803, but if I had the money, I would be picking the Yamaha up. One day perhaps. Let me know how it goes. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1485 Registered: Sep-04 | I find this very interesting. I compared the Pioneer to the Denon (and Arcam in my case since it's close in money-terms here in the UK). I agree that the Pioneer was warmer but I didn't think this made it more musical. On the contrary I thought it just muddied the sound, making it sound veiled and slow. By comparison I thought the Denon had much better detail and tighter faster bass. The Denon came across a touch clinical therefore, but I found it preferable to the Pioneer since I could actually hear what was going on. We thought the Pioneers were so poor that we decided not to stock them. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4292 Registered: Mar-05 | Frank, Just goes to show how much personal preferences come into play in this hobby I guess. It's hard to pin down, but I simply found the PE much more PLEASANT on a variety of speakers: Focal 806 bookshelves, Polk LSi9s and LSi7s, JBL Studio bookshelves. If I had a hi-fi shop I would probably try to cater to as many differing tastes as possible, though. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1500 Registered: Sep-04 | That would be unethical. We'd use them as negative dems. One should keep alternatives, but only so long as you believe in their qualities. It would not be fair to the manufacturer to do otherwise. Also, all shops have pressure on their stock holding, so if one product doesn't fit the bill there's bound to be another product in some part of the shop that will. I could easily triple our stock holding without drawing breath... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4302 Registered: Mar-05 | > That would be unethical. We'd use them as negative dems. One should keep alternatives, but only so long as you believe in their qualities. Geez, so you guys all disliked them that much? You'd think I was suggesting that you carry Bose, heh. Now THAT would be a great "negative demo!" |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 507 Registered: Jul-05 | Well the original poster probably left; HT and music listening are fairly unrelated worlds. HT is largely about signal processing and bass management; obviously power is key depending on the speakers used. Since I prefer efficient speakers strongly its less of an issue for me, as all A/V receiever brands will drive what I use in my HT. Anyway, the Denon is preferred over most brands for HT becuase it excels at signal processing codec and bass management. In no way does this mean it is a great choice for music in a pure audiophile set up. In fact its not a very good choice as a brand for the most part for musical listening, but neither are Pioneer/H/K--Onkyo and all the other HT focused brands out there. But Denon rules in HT. Also very reliable. |
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New member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 1 Registered: Jul-06 | Pierre, All of those receivers are good choices. The sound difference between them will be quite marginal at best, and very subjective. To make any soundsystem sound it's best in a very dramatic and noticable way, be sure to treat your room acoustics. The ROOM is probably the biggest and most important variable often overlooked by most audio enthusists. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1504 Registered: Sep-04 | Edster, > Geez, so you guys all disliked them that much? Yup... |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 508 Registered: Jul-05 | Of course, No room ever makes bad audio equipment sound good... Rooms certainly impact sound quite a bit; but then you get into an overemphasis on room treatments and first reflection points and the like. Eddie has good speakers that sound good despite having a less than optimal room from an audio standpoint. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 11 Registered: Jul-06 | Never underestimate the importance of the room. 50% of what reaches your ears, is created by room reflections. Sounding 'good enough' in a bad room, and the clear accurate response of a treated soundroom are two comepletely different things that should never be confused. It is, in fact, quite important, but unfortunately few have experienced the difference in their home. Because of that, I wouldnt expect most to understand the significance. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 509 Registered: Jul-05 | Sorry- Like I said-- no room ever makes bad equipment sound good. Its not about underestimating the importance of a room-- a room will absolutely change all characteristics of sound and have an impact- but these sort of general comments with zero specifics are, frankly-- unhelpful. avsforum.com has very long threads involving heated arguements/discussins about room treatments. After a point-- its overkill that loses sight of music altogether. All the regs here have the room issues understood as a topic-- just an FYI. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 12 Registered: Jul-06 | I never said treating a room can make bad equipment sound good.(as you put it) Based on your response, I can easily tell you dont have a single acoustic panel or bass trap installed in your HT/listening room, so I wouldnt expect you to comprehend what I was talking about. Only through experiencing it first hand can, can you truly understand the impact they make. I can get more specific & discuss specific examples how room treatments effect sound clarity during movies or the tightness & cleaness of bass, but I'm guessing you'll respond that you already know because you read all about it on AVS. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 511 Registered: Jul-05 | Rush- You statements are coming across as you knowing something that others don't-- but you aren't offering anything of substance. You'll get called on that around here. My reference to avs is for others who may actually want to read stuff from some acoustical experts as opposed to your flim-flam posts. FYI- I've been a studio musician for 30 years, and have a lot of experience in acoustical treatments- including some of the absolute best studios in the world out in LA where some very well known CDs and record albums have been recorded. The audio groups and HT groups here in town are common ground for me, and CES in Vegas is an annual event, as are the various periodicals, websites, and local A-V stores. I enjoy learning from others here who have something to offer- but I have read your posts and you, thusfar, don't qualify. So young Jedi-- be careful how youn use your light saber-- you could get burned. |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 14 Registered: Jul-06 | That's like calling a baseball player an expert on stadium construction |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 15 Registered: Jul-06 | ---------------------------------------------- Pierre, All of those receivers are good choices. The sound difference between them will be quite marginal at best, and very subjective. To make any soundsystem sound it's best in a very dramatic and noticable way, be sure to treat your room acoustics. The ROOM is probably the biggest and most important variable often overlooked by most audio enthusiasts. ---------------------------- Marc, What is it that you took offense with in the above statement made by me? Based on your defensive antagonistic response to the above, it seems you took offense to the part where I say quote: "The ROOM is probably the biggest and most important variable often overlooked by most audio enthusiasts." You basically respond with: ----------------------------------------- "Of course, No room ever makes bad audio equipment sound good..." ----------------------------------------- What does that have to do with my statement?? Your response screams of "I don't have a single acoustic treatment in my home, I'm an enthusiast, so Rush described me exactly, and I took offense". Marc, That's why I responded in kind. Of course, I could clearly see that by your next extremely defensive antagonizing response that I was correct. If you took offense because you were described in my original statement that explains that a majority of enthusiasts as those who neglect their room, please don't take offense. My apologies |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 512 Registered: Jul-05 | Sorry Rush-- its about the music; Room treatments can be insulation rolls from Home depot, carpet on the floor etc. When I see Room Treatments by GIK industries alongside Klipsch speakers and SVS subs it raises questions about what someone like yourself truly knows, since that combination is basically--non-musical. You are new here but you need to be careful about comin around and spoutin off about nothing and offering nothing at the same time. I do note in another thread you recommended an SVS sub in a 12 x 11 room. Perhaps you are on drugs. This is an awful recommendation. And... no room can ever make bad equipment sound good. Again, room treatments dont have to be specialized products that cost big bucks-- 99% of those who recommend them sell them quite frankly. At CES, there are 100s of rooms of audio set ups only. SOme have room treatments and some don't. The quality sound is still the quality sound. And every room, including my own, have some sort of acoustical treatments--though not from GIK industries. Have a nice day. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3278 Registered: Dec-04 | I put a big fat chair in each corner. On paper, should it help secondary bass reverberation? |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 513 Registered: Jul-05 | Depends on what mkaes the chair fat! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3282 Registered: Dec-04 | usually my butt, marc! I knew one of you two would ask. hehe My room is hopeless and not likely to change, but I have picked up some ideas. I'm not sure...do I choose my system for what I like, or should I bear in mind the severe limitations of the space when choosing. Chicken,egg...beer I say choose according to what I like and make the space the best I can, without repositioning walls. |
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Silver Member Username: Rysa4Post Number: 516 Registered: Jul-05 | Exactly! |
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Bronze Member Username: Eib_nationOhio EIB Nation Post Number: 16 Registered: Jul-06 | I do note in another thread you recommended an SVS sub in a 12 x 11 room. Perhaps you are on drugs. This is an awful recommendation. =========================== Yes, I noticed how you were following me around and instigating. It went something like this..... I recommend the SVS brand without naming a specific model because I believe they offer the most sub/dollar. You pipe in.... "No, you're wrong". Then you go on to say that HSU offers the most sub/dollar, and in the same sentence you conflict yourself by saying that ANY SVS SUB IS TOO MUCH for that size room, but HSU isnt too much?? You were essentially agreeing with me by stating that any SVS is more sub than your HSU recommendation, in spite of both SVS & HSU brands having subs selling at the same price point as your recommendation. Wow, if that isnt a conflicting statement, I dont know what is??? I chose not to respond in the other thread, but since you brought it up here.... I might as well reply IMO, in your quest to instigate, you made some pretty imbarrassing & conflicting statements. |
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