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New member Username: EtaniyaniLos Angeles, California Post Number: 4 Registered: Jul-06 | Hey all, here is my dilema i currently have paradigm monitor 11's for the front, and monitor 5's for the rear, and cc-370 for the center. I have the rotel rsx-1057 receiver powering it all, so obviously i need an amp. Here is my question, i am debating between buying 2 rb-1070's and bridging them for 360 watts for each monitor 11, or buying 1 rb-1080 which is 200 watts for each monitor 11. what are your thoughts and/or concerns with this setup. Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8781 Registered: May-04 | . Why so much power? Big amps seldom sound as good as smaller ones. . |
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New member Username: EtaniyaniLos Angeles, California Post Number: 6 Registered: Jul-06 | well niether of those amps are big, and i have heard the rb-1080s on a pair of monitor 9's and they sound great. Each amp is no taller then 5 inches, and are very efficient. My main question is whether spending couple hundred dollars extra is worth almost twice the wattage to each speaker and are there any drawbacks of going with 2 rb-1070's vs 1 rb-1080. Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8783 Registered: May-04 | . I didn't mean dimensionally "big". . |
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New member Username: EtaniyaniLos Angeles, California Post Number: 7 Registered: Jul-06 | Well when you said big, i assumed size because large amps will generally run hotter, and less efficiently. But if you were referring to power, it doesn't make sense because the more power going into your speakers is usually better and if this wasn't the case, companies wouldn't be making amps. Now i know 360 watts going into the monitor 11's will sound better then 200 watts, but are there disadvantages or problems with the setup i mentioned? Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8785 Registered: May-04 | . "But if you were referring to power, it doesn't make sense because the more power going into your speakers is usually better and if this wasn't the case, companies wouldn't be making amps." That is patently false and not logical. Two hundred clean watts, not allowing for any amount of clipping, should produce peaks of volume at approximately 110dB. Given the average amount of dynamic range on most contemporary studio recordings, that should still give you average volume levels around 97-100dB. That is approaching, if not at, the "uncomfortable" level of sound pressure. If you drive the amplifier into mild clipping, you should be able to reach levels in an average room which will easily bring the police to your door. (http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html) And, that volume is certainly beyond the level of doing permanent damage to your hearing. Now, here's the kicker, if all things are equal in the amplifier's quality, adding the additional 160 watts will not add even three dB to that peak level capability. You would have to add an additional 600 watts to gain approximately six dB which might begin to be noticeable as an increase in volume level. (Though at that SPL it becomes extremely difficult to judge any changes in sound.) If the larger amp sounds better through your speakers, then there is more happening than mere wattage alone. In that case, the logical assumption would be there is something that should be happening in the "smaller amp" that isn't and the quality of watts is more important than the amount of watts. If you think the larger amp sounds better than the smaller amp at the same volume level, there is more proof the amount of wattage is relatively unimportant. Both amps will produce the same amount of wattage to get the same speakers to the same volume level. This is a function of the sensitivity of the speaker and not the amount of watts the amplifier can produce. I don't know if you constantly listen at ear damaging levels, but this bit of information might indicate looking at a better quality amp rather than merely a larger wattage amp. . |
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New member Username: EtaniyaniLos Angeles, California Post Number: 8 Registered: Jul-06 | well put, here is my understanding which has also been confirmed by other professionals, as well as my own hearing. I did a test with the monitor 11's with the rotel rsx-1057. First i hooked up one of rotels amps, which i believe was 125 wpc. Listened to the quality of the sound at a particular sound level. Then i hooked up their rb-1092 which puts 500 wpc. i never exceeded the max volume of the 125 watt amp, but the 500 watt amp was noticeably cleaner at the specified volume, more base response etc. The amp doesn't have to work as hard to get it to a certain volume so less heat is generated. Its not only about peak volume levels but how hard each amp has to work to listen at a desired volume and how efficiently it runs so it can produce clean sound. Both of these amps are exceptional and produce excellent clean sound, so in my case, the more clean wattage i put into my speakers the better it will sound? Thank you for your input, i found it very knowledgable and helpful. |
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New member Username: EtaniyaniLos Angeles, California Post Number: 9 Registered: Jul-06 | oh another thing, i was just checking out that website, with the amount of wattage going into the speakers and the decibles produced, now the difference from my receiver putting 100 wpc in 2 channel mode, and the rb-1080 is also a 3 decible increase. I know how large of a difference 1 rb-1080 makes in the sound and thats only 100 watts more then just the reciever. So if i put 200 watts more it will only sound even better. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8789 Registered: May-04 | . You sound convinced of your assumptions. Buy away! |
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New member Username: EtaniyaniLos Angeles, California Post Number: 10 Registered: Jul-06 | alright, either way i go will end up being the same cost for me. You haven't stated the benefit of either way, and i know for fact that it will sound better with an amp, either one i choose. I appreciate your input, but i have decided to go with 1 rb-1080 due to the cleaner sound it will produce. thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8793 Registered: May-04 | . I knew you had pretty much made up your mind. Good luck. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 145 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Etan, good luck, but from experience I tend to agree with Jan. Quality is much more important than sheer quanity. (But I leave the door open for myself by saying that if you are happy with what you have chosen that is all that matters). The Hifi/AV press is full of lots of text written about bi-amping, bridging amps etc etc. You'd think our end objective was to build an electrical sub-station!!! But when I started to listen to equipment using my ears, I soon realised that one good amp, is much better than two lesser ones. JMHO, Good Luck Rav |
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Bronze Member Username: EtaniyaniLos Angeles, California Post Number: 11 Registered: Jul-06 | hey rav, i never disagreed with jan about quality. After talking to some people, and listening to each, I started to beleive that bridging the rb-1070 to 360 watts wasn't going to give me as clean of a signal as 1 rb-1080 would. Now i also listened to the rb-1092 which is 500 wpc. Even if you dont listen to it at full blast the clarity and bass response is so much better then the rb-1080. The only problem with the rb-1092 is that it cost $2500, which is not for me. Thanks for the replies everyone. |
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New member Username: ChristianmPost Number: 9 Registered: Jun-06 | I have toiled with similar questions, after looking at the NAD 272, then the Rotel 1070, 1075 and now the 1080. I feel I'm ready for teh 1080. Now to find a matching set of speakers. The contenders, B&W 603, 604 or Paradigm Monitor 7, 9, 11 or studio 60's. My buddy has the 60's so they are somewhat out. I like to be a little different. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8800 Registered: May-04 | .. Get the 60's and paint them red. |
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Bronze Member Username: EtaniyaniLos Angeles, California Post Number: 12 Registered: Jul-06 | The studio 60's are really nice, dont not get them because your friend has them. The 11's are definately nicer then the 7's or 9's, they can handle more power, and will give a fuller sound. The 11's are really nice, and somewhat affordable, and if you have the power going to them they really shine. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8806 Registered: May-04 | . OK, paint them shiny red gloss. |
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Bronze Member Username: Divin11112000Michigan Post Number: 88 Registered: Dec-04 | Jan, Eventually someone will paint them red gloss, I vote for poka-dots. Even if someone did paint them with the same poka-dots you'd never get the placement or size, so it would always be different |
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New member Username: ChristianmPost Number: 10 Registered: Jun-06 | Ah we'll see. The 604's look cooler and to my untrained ear ( I am giving up a set of cerwin's albiet they are rated 92 db sensitivity vs the 90 on the 604/603 and 94 on the monitor series to complete the deal) does offer me a certain amount of WAF. However I dont know if sensitivity is the ultimate variable to manage. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3256 Registered: Dec-04 | The 603es sound great, fill out room(with proper positioning) and look really snappy(best with the grilles on). |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8810 Registered: May-04 | . It's not. Depsite the small difference in sensitivity on paper, the B&W's will typically be more difficult for the amplifier to drive. The crossover components in the B&W are more complex; and, therefore, eat up a fair amount of power. If the speakers you're considering are typical of the B&W line, they will have a more severe impedance swing and a negative going electrical phase angle. Should this be the case, a more sturdily built power supply in the power amplifier will be required to drive the current demands of the B&W design. You will probably sense the B&W's do not play as if there were only 2dB difference between them and the Vegas. I've not seen any measurements on the B&W's so you might want to consider looking for yourself should you consider these speakers. . |