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Unregistered guest | sorry for the long post, but Upgrading my ht setup soon and have been following the forums for advice as well as listening to loads of different speakers. I was at the local store the other day listening to the studio 100v3's powered by an Anthem amp (not sure which model). I fell in love with the sound! Problem is, getting the studio setup (100s, cc, adp's) is stretching my already limited budget. so, advice is needed. currently, i'm running a circa 1998 yamaha __1103 (rated by yamaha at 100x5) which i know isn't putting out anywhere near what even the lowest powered anthem was putting out. also, hearing that the studio's are power hungry on more than one thread/forum has lead me to worry somewhat about my receivers short term ability to power these (i eventually plan to upgrade but money won't be there for a bit). also, i want to try to match that paradigm/anthem amp sound even though the anthem won't be in my budget anytime soon, perhaps ever (got a wife to consider). i'm wondering if i could mate them with the outlaw 7100 (using my yamaha as the pre/pro) and approximate that sound (haven't heard the outlaw but i like their philosophy and value) on a limited budget or whether i should wait it out and strive for the anthem. also, would 100wpc be enough to fill my room (15x24 w/18ft cathedral ceilings w/a realistic listening area of 15x15 but back wall of listening are is open to breakfst area, effectively making a large 'L' shaped room w/listening area in the middle - i know, not the optimal layout, but you work w/what you've got) or would i be better off waiting yet again for more power (akin to the outlaw 770, even though i know that 200wpc is realistically only a couple of db louder than the 100wpc). any other amps i should look into (i've read a little on adcom) for a tight budget? all help is appreciated, craig. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 480 Registered: Dec-03 | Craig-- One of the nice things about Paradigm Studio speakers is that you can go down the line to the Studio 20 or 40 and get the same tweeter and midrange/woofer. So the sonic quality will be the same, but obviously the depth of bass will not be as good as the 100's. If you are listening to stereo fairly often then the 100's are what you may want. But if you are listening to surround formats mostly and have a good self-powered subwoofer (or two) then the 40's would be excellent. Heck, the 40's are very good for stereo too--just a bit shy on deep bass. If you go to audiogon.com you will find a 5 x 170 watt Anthem amp that the seller is asking $950 and includes shipping. You might offer him $850-$900 and see if he/she is willing to sell. That should be more than fine for your purposes, as the surround speakers need far less power than the Paradigm 100's (should you get them). Heck, even at $950 it is a pretty good deal. To get a significantly more powerful amplifier you might have to get a Sunfire or an ATI AT3005 (300 watts). And those will be substantially more expensive. |
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Bronze Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 46 Registered: Apr-04 | Don't want to sound insulting, but your Yamaha amp will not duplicate the stylish sound of an Anthem on those Studio 100's. An amp with a maximum 100w ouput should be sufficient for all but the very largest of rooms at normal listenting levels. Your yamaha will drive those Paradigms at least adequately; any larger speaker with larger magnets and multiple drivers will of course require more power than a bookshelf 2 way. And what cables and interconnects are you going to use with your new speakers? I think there are MANY better choices in speakers than those Ref 100's. |
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craig_s Unregistered guest | Thanks for the replies: Gregory, All of the music I listen to is Stereo, as I've yet to buy DVD-A/SACD (and I probably won't, as the music selections offered currently in multi-channel don't impress), so the 100s, or whatever I buy, will be used for 45% stereo w/out sub (for now) 55% ht. Plus, I've always felt larger cabinets 'fill' a room better (which is ok as the wife won't allow standmounts, one of the few things we agree on w/respect to music/ht :-)) what I was really trying to assess, is whether or not 100 real wpc (as with the smallest anthem pv/the outlaw 7100/other amps - trust me, I'm well aware the amp in my yamaha won't satisfy) would be enough to power the depths of bass the studio's (or other floorstanding fullrange speakers for that matter) can put out. more thoughts? Chicobiker, you're not insulting, you're not telling me anything I'm not already aware of. I'm just trying to figure out whether or not to upgrade slowly (speakers first, amp 8-12mo later, pre/pro after that, etc) or whether or not my yamaha would be so amazingly underpowered that I should wait for another year or so for the whole thing (also in anticipation that nad, etc. might get some of the bugs worked out of qc so I might perhaps just get a 753/763 and be done with it - but again, that brings up the question, would the wpc ratings of the nad's etc. be enough to drive the 100s, or other similar speaker). as for other choices than the 100s, name several. I've listened to: monitor 7/9/11 - liked the 7, thought the 9 wasn't as clear as the 7, liked the 11 but the midrange on it seemed just a bit too forward, which is why i liked the 100s, just seemed the most balanced of the paradigm's (incl. the 60s) b&w (600 series)-sounded a little dull to me vandersteen (2ce and below)-full surround setup would be too expensive, plus, she sound was a little strange for my liking def tech-not a fan of bipolar mains, plus bloated sounding bass jmlab chorus series - nice and detailed, but definitely needed a sub kef q series - similar to the jmlab klipsch rf5 - midrange seemed masked, all I was hearing was booming bass and highs still anticipating hearing: energy, psb, others? I'm not wanting to go over 2k for the mains, but I can be persuaded if the sound wow's me. (the 100s were offered to me at 2200/pr) |
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Silver Member Username: Elitefan1Post Number: 387 Registered: Dec-03 | Craig, $2200 is the list price for the Studio 100's so that's no deal at all. I think the best buy in the Studio series is the 60 at about $1000 less. Hope you heard those also. You are on the right track in trying to audition as many brands as possible. I would add Monitor Audio and Dynaudio to your list. Good luck. |
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Bronze Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 49 Registered: Apr-04 | Craig S - you have a good ear for speaker auditioning. Since you like the civilized sound of Paradigms, I'll make the following sensible suggestion. You could select ANY of the speakers you currently like, continue using your Yamaha, and on a speaker like the Monitor 7, which is reasonably priced, will fill all but the LARGEST rooms with adequate SPL's, and spring for some upgraded interconnects and speaker cables. You'll find Paradigms in PARTICULAR, reveal a completely different character when upgraded cables are attached, and the improvement is more significant than model to model changes, since bass depth is usually what improves the most with model-up movements in Paradigm. This way you;ll have a true idea of how good a value Paradigm Monitors are and extract the most from your Yamaha and still save hundreds of dollars. |
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Unregistered guest | Chicobiker, thanks for the comments, i'm not so certain i like a 'civilized' sounding speaker as much as one that sounds rather balanced. i really don't care for speakers that have a dull or pronounced midrange, as i find those are the hardest freq's to produce well (to my ear). i think i've pretty much come to the conclusion that i'm certain my yamaha will at least be ok in the short term (as long as i don't drive at reference levels for extended periods) until i can evaluate the need for more power down the road. if i may ask, what speakers do you find pleasing? also, reading thread after thread about the significance of interconnects, what would be some brands of mid-level interconnects (i.e., the ones that cost a moderate amount and give 95% of the performance of the higher priced ones)? also, i'm still waiting to hear from anyone who's heard the outlaw/paradim combo....maybe i should post this in the amps area..... craig. |
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craig_s Unregistered guest | forgot to add: i'm also worried that the balanced sound i heard from the 100s was a direct result of the higher power amp feeding them. if i go to use the yamaha putting out a realistic 30-40wpc x5, would the lovely bass i heard from the 100s disappear? would other parts of their sonic character change as well? craig. |
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Silver Member Username: GmanMt. Pleasant, SC Post Number: 489 Registered: Dec-03 | Craig-- As long as your speaker runs aren't over 50 feet, any well made and inexpensive 12 or 14 gauge speaker wire is excellent. Just make sure the connections are tight and buy well-coated wires, to prevent any potential RF interference. The speakers you buy followed by the room they sit in are the two most important things effecting sound. I imagine your Yamaha will use most of its power on the front two speakers and less on the surrounds. That is typical of most receivers and usually works out fine for most people with easy to drive 8 ohm speakers, as surrounds rarely receive anywhere near as much signal/volume as the fronts and center speakers. There is no telling how acoustically matched your room will be with the Paradigm's until you play them there. It may sound better than the store, similar, or worse. No doubt there should be a benefit in having an amp with more power and good damping to control the bottom end (woofers) of the Paradigm's and also to prevent the possibility of clipping when you play your system loudly. That is the benefit of a good amp or amp section. When you have more than enough power you never clip the amp causing distortion and possible speaker damage. So if you start hearing distortion from playing too loud, back off on the volume to prevent speaker destruction. If that happens you know you need more power and if the woofers sound flabby and loose on the Paradigm's that is also a sign that you probably need more power and a better damped amplifier. |
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Bronze Member Username: RobertinchicoPost Number: 58 Registered: Apr-04 | Craig - I have owned Advent 1's, Allison CD8, KEF 104.2, Thiel (2.2, 2.3). The Thiels 2.3 were the overall best but were super-critical in placement. Bass from Thiels was only sufficient with good interconnects and cables. MOst magazines review their speakers set ups with good cables. I recently had some Paradigm Titans (I bought them without sufficient audition time and promptly replaced them) but now for the interim have Paradigm Focus, but this summer will upgrade to Monitor 5.v3. I like Straight Wire cables for their overall performance and value. I don't really understand why people clown cable upgrades or stick RadioShack wire on $2000 speakers. Two bargains from Straight Wire: interconnect - Rhapsody II and Cable - New Symphony. Can't hurt to try auditioning some cables. |
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Silver Member Username: KeggerMICHIGAN Post Number: 233 Registered: Dec-03 | everyone has there thought on speaker wire and interconects. i personally believe once you have descent cables there is no sonic difference in the ultra expensive ones compaired to the good quality ones. to me it is just a marketing ploy so the cable companies can make huge profits. and you do not need the salon selectives cables to produce great audio. money could be spent much better in other areas. craig recently i have rewired and recabled my system and found the acoustic research products from best buy affordable and quality made. personally i would not go any smaller of wire than 16 gauge. obviously the wire gets larger with 12 or 14 and if you can get a good deal on larger wire by all means go for it. but i don't bye into all the hype of extrtemly expensive cables and wires. and the markup on that stuff is silly. |
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Unregistered guest | Craig, do yourself a favor and have a listen to the Green Mountain Audio Europa's at around $880.00/pair. I listened to them last summer in Minneapolis against the Paradigm Ref. Studio 100's and it was simply "no contest" The GMA won hands down. Wasn't even close. The GMA's sound better than anything I have personally heard up to about $5k. You'll love them. Best kept secret in audio. Another plus is they sound awesome with pretty much any amp. http://greenmountainaudio.com/ |