Archive through June 04, 2006
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 578 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry Again, many happy returns for your 70th. Now I bear a birthday gift. On the pm I sent you I stated we were about to listen to the CD soundtrack from Goodnight and Good Luck by Dianne Reeves and a jazz quartet (acoustic bass, drums, piano and sax). Well our gift to you is our recommendation to purchase this CD. You can listen here: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6947528&style=music&cart=344052165 &WID=4946992&BAB=L It is well recorded - sort of in black and white like the movie. In other words in the style of the times. I think you'll like it. If not - it's the thought that counts. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1420 Registered: Oct-04 | Rantz, John A et al - thanks for the good wishes - I need all the help I can get! And I have the CD - consider it very fine! Now: I need a tad of help. The DvD87 has some form of bass management, but I don't know just what it is! the manual says to set the speakers to "small" so the lowest notes will go to the sub. BUT it doesn't give a crossover frequency. My question: can/should I set a crossover frequency on the NAD? Or will that somehow mess up whatever the DVD87 does? I'm confused here. My e-mail to Cambridge Audio has yet to be answered. Also - both SACDs and Redbook CDs sound much warmer and richer using the analog output rather than the digital. (I know, the SACDs only use analog) Does this mean that the DAC in the DVD87 is "better" than the one in the NAD? That's what it means to me, anyway. Sooooo - I just leave the NAD on 7.1 analog input - which, John A, gives me stereo, as the REdbook CDs only have two channels, anyway! Overall, I'm very happy with the player - CA obviously put most of its money into the guts of the unit - which is fine with me! But I'd be much happier if the display could show "stop" instead of S6op!! (double grin) Rantz - thanks again for the CD-thoughts! Mer and I are getting more ane more "small ensemble" jazz CDs. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3298 Registered: Feb-05 | I just bought the "Good Night and Good Luck" cd and the music is very good. The recording however is pretty poor. It's the music that matters. Larry, there may be more sophisticated bass management on the '89. Not sure. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1421 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: Thanx - but the manual I have is designed for both the 87 and 89 - and unless there is something missing, they have dropped the ball on useful information! But then, when have you received a finely-tuned, well-written owner's manual? Recently? Hmm. . .Not likely. UR right about the recording quality - don't understand that. . .guess they didn't consider "audiophile" in their projected listeners' list? That is one recording where I took bull by horns and copied it down onto the computer, then onto a black CD-R. Sounds much better! And I didn't even use the Exact Audio Copy - just went from outboard player to hard disc to outboard player. (cleaned all discs before using, of course!! GRIN) And why black CD-Rs sound better than silver or gold or blue, etc., I really don't know. Maybe Jan has researched this? I use Memorex discs from Amazon. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 585 Registered: Mar-04 | Larry, Sounds like your new player is leaving the Yammie in the dust. Excellent. I think you are correct, if the sound is better going through the analog cables then that indicates the DAC in the 87 is better than in the NAD. As far as the bass management issue, I think maybe the DvD87 has a fixed crossover point which cannot be adjusted....? Since the signal is analog when it gets to the NAD I'm not sure you can use your crossover setting on the NAD. Of course I could be all wrong here as I rarely know what I'm talking about....ask my wife. I also seem to be getting very forgetful lately. At any rate, good luck James. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 579 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry, Setting the crossover on the NAD is not going to help when using the universal players analogue connections. The NAD should be set to external (or 5.1, 7.1 out or something similar) hence negating any signal thoroughfare through the NAD's DAC's. However, the NAD's crossovers would apply when using the digital outs from the universal player. Just set the speakers to small and use the set crossover - otherwise leave them on large and compare, but having tiny rears, I don't think that would be preferable, though you do have your rears tuned down low. Now, take a big breath for all those candles my friend [grin]. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8526 Registered: May-04 | No, I haven't investigated the issue of black CD-R's. The postulate has been proposed that the response is due to the same phenomenon as edge coating taken to the extreme. It revolves around stray laser light careening about inside the player and causing interference with the read mechanism. The concept was originally observed with CD's which had either a black label or, to a lesser extent, a solid colored label long before black CD-R's were made available. Take whatever part of that concept you find likeable and put it in the audio blender with all the other belief systems you have held onto for far too many years. Larry, I would try setting all controls to "Large" and "No sub". Use the speaker level inputs/crossover on the sub. Make your comparison, listening for which sounds more evenly balanced and go from there. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1423 Registered: Oct-04 | All Dawgs: Thanks for your return comments. Taking a breath to blow out candles, but Mer has a fire extinguisher by, just in case. With all that fire, don- cha know. . .(grin) OK - working my through all the settings. Jan: one thing confuses me, sir. If I set the speakers to large and "no sub" - uh, won't that negate any settings on the sub? I mean, with no sub, no sound, no settings unless I - as usual - am missing an important point here? Let's see now, we're dealing with green pens and sanding CD edges, and shining the CDs with Zaino and Pledge, and cleaning off the plugs and contacts, and setting the player on silicone isolation pads, and and copying down recalcitrant CDs onto BLACK CD-Rs and setting speaker distances and rolloff points, and - - uh - - have I left anything out, guyz? (double grin) If I take a deep breath, I think I'll finally hear the mu'sic! Hmm. . . Spent much of "my day" outside in the humidity, drilling and setting hurricane panel connectors into the concrete walls of the house. Now, I ask you, what better way to turn 70, eh? (drip, drip, drip) Good to hear from y'all! respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1424 Registered: Oct-04 | Rantz: Nobody - until you - has ever commented on my "tiny rears." Really, sir!!!!! (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1364 Registered: Dec-03 | Happy Birthday Larry! 70 candles on your cake? I thought they had fire code laws in Collier County. LOL! Wish you many more.................. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8531 Registered: May-04 | The speaker level connection will negate any settings on the player or the receiver. That's why you set everything to "Large" and "No sub". You will use the controls on the subwoofer to set level and crossover frequency. Once these are set you won't have remote control over changing the settings. You'll have to get up and walk over to the sub if you want to change anything. This makes you consider the settings you made rather than constantly "futz" with controls. You will, however, have relatively infinite control, within the range of the sub's settings, to make changes. They will not happen in ten Hertz increments as is typical of the digital settings made at the player or receiver. This connection might not sound as good to you, but, then again, it might sound better. You can choose to run your main speakers either full range by connecting them directly to the amplifier along with the subwooofer as a parallel connection. Or, you can run them with the low frequencies of the main speakers attentuated by running the signal through the sub's low pass/high pass crossover and then back out to the main speakers. There are plenty of choices to fine tune your system or get lost in the possibilities. I would give it a try - but you might not care to bother. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2727 Registered: Dec-03 | Yes Happy Birthday Larry! Congrats on the player as well. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 759 Registered: Feb-04 | Larry--Best wishes on your birthday! Glad to read that you're enjoying Mer's gift  Hi, Kegger, so you're back on the forum now that hockey season is over? Too bad about the Wings  |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1425 Registered: Oct-04 | 2C, Kegger, Rick - many thanks for the wishes! Nice to have y'all around. . .makes life a lot fuller, for sure! Jan: I'm trying (I know, very trying!) to figger out all that you suggest, but I must admit I'm a tad flummoxed by it all. However, I'll give it the Old School try and see what comes out. Sigh. Sure wish I had your knowledge!!! Mer rented some movies tonight, but though the sound quality of the new player is very good, the plot and writing of the movies left me cold, and I nodded off. . . Movies were "The WEatherman" and "The Constant Gardener." With my ears, the dialogue gets harder to understand each year, and I've about given up. Books are good. . . . G-nite from Swampville, and thanks for helping me celebrate another milestone. Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8533 Registered: May-04 | I'm not sure why you're flummoxed. Set all your levels and crossovers on the player and the receiver as if you had large front speakers and no subwoofer. Set the rears to small, if the player and the receiver will allow that setting without insisting on switching in the subwoofer. With the rears set to small and the fronts to large, you should be OK. The player and receiver will simply re-route any low bass signals from the rear to the front. Your small rear speakers shouldn't ever get any low bass with this setting. However, whatever low bass would normally be sent to the LFE or sub out on the receiver will be directed to the front speakers. With this connection you are merely using the subwoofer's crossover instead of the player and receiver's controls. First time out connect the front speaker cables directly to the subwoofer instead of the front speakers. Run your front speaker cables from the speaker level outputs on the subwoofer. You don't need any fancy cables to try this experiment, just what you have laying around. So the signal is now coming from the receiver's speaker outputs to the sub and from the sub to the front speakers. Set your crossover on the sub to the same frequency you had used with the receiver and player, 80Hz or so. Adjust the subwoofer's level set to what you feel is appropriate. If this sounds remotely good to you, you can try running the speaker cables directly to both the front speakers and to the speaker level inputs on the sub. The front speakers will be running full range and the crossover on the sub will only act as a low pass filter to determine where the sub comes in. The receiver should react as if it is only driving the front speakers since the subwoofer has its own amplifier. As I said, you might not prefer this arrangement. It does eliminate the use of the remote to change levels on the subwoofer while music is playing and adds a set of speaker cables. And, the on-board crossover on the subwoofer might have a different slope than the digital crossover in the player and receiver. But, you should be able to tell rather quickly whether this connection sounds OK to your ears. If it doesn't, then simply change back to the way you've run things so far. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8534 Registered: May-04 | "Set all your levels and crossovers on the player and the receiver as if you had large front speakers and no subwoofer." Once you say you have large front speakers and no sub, the player and receiver will usually not even go to the point of asking you to set a crossover since you've indicated you have nothing to crossover to. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2666 Registered: Dec-04 | That's the way I set up my buddies sysem. Works great. |
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Silver Member Username: SemNew York USA Post Number: 586 Registered: Mar-04 | Hmmmmm, thanks Jan for that explaination, I'd always wondered about doing that but wasn't quite sure how, and had never taken the time to investigate. When I get some time I now have some experimenting to do. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 580 Registered: Nov-05 | Back on to universal players - this could be the one to beat . . . http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=19196735 . . . for those contemplating such an upgrade. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1426 Registered: Oct-04 | Jan: Thanks for the (further) explanation. Needed that. Rantz: Well,now! The Arcam does, indeed, seem to be "the one to beat!" Wowzer - if it were only in my price range I'd be sorely tempted! Isn't it interesting that, when so many people are sounding the "death is imminent" cries for SACD, more and more companies are bringing out universal players WITH SACD! It's not dead yet, and especially for classical, I don't think it will lie down and die very soon. At the same time, if my new DVD87 is an indication, more "cheap" players are suddenly making the good old Redbook CD sound better than ever! So - is all this designed to head off the Blu-ray? I think not - but - with the blue laser format-wars, I doubt that companies can just "give up" on all of us who still embrace and buy the "good ole stuff." IMHO I shall now go and re-set things, to see any and all bass differences. . . |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1427 Registered: Oct-04 | All Dawgs: Returning to what I said about the premature death-predictions for SACD. I offer: http://www.sa-cd.net/shownews/41 Interesting. . . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2674 Registered: Dec-04 | And I thank you for that link, Larry. I wonder if the new format will be advertised on the disc? If not, How will we know? If so, the price had best be dropped a bit, with this info as ammunition to whine, complain etc. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1428 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck: Well, it's not a new format, as such. Think of it as transferring the "originals" to a computer hard disc, then moving them about to DVDs, etc. Instead of a tape "master," you've now got a master on computer hard drive - which seems to be where everybody's putting stuff anyway. Anything to keep alive and expand the SACD library is exciting to me - as one of the die-hards who loves to listen to this format! Mer and I had a wunnerful time this afternoon, listening to a Ray Brown SACD - played on the new CA 87 - and sounding so natural that you could almost feel the gut of the bass strings and feel the sizzle of the brushes on the drum set. My, how we are liking the new player! Price drop? Uh, you must live in the "frozen north," my friend - whoever heard of sech a ting in modurn living? Price DROP? Mmmmmm. . . . . . (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4199 Registered: Dec-03 | Returning for a moment to the question of surround sound, I found this link to a description of a well-planned listening room - SARC: Sonic lab. I had got stuck, before, trying to imagine listeners suspended form the ceiling, or similar. Now I see that all the serious listener needs is an acoustically transparent floor. I still do not know what he or she sits on, though. Belated happy birthday, Larry! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4200 Registered: Dec-03 | Well, it looks suspiciously like a chair. Next to a coffee table. Hope they're acoustically transparent, too. From SARC.  |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1429 Registered: Oct-04 | John A - thank you, sir! Had a very nice day of it, thanks to Mer's stuffed peppers, champagne and flowers.(not all of them stuffed! grin) Tried to expand and sharpen the pic - but could not get much out of it, except that there is a man sitting in the chair, holding something - instrument, perhaps? Very scary "listening room!" You'll be happy to know, John, that the CA DVD-87 is one piece of British gear that works very well. A universal player with VERY GOOD CD sound! In a way, it reminds me of a player that came out several years ago - a Toshiba - that looked rather "mid-price" but sounded absolutely great. Same thing here - and I would not hesitate to recommend this player - though I'm sure it will never even come close to your REga, John! Still, it's good enough for poh folk like us! (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3306 Registered: Feb-05 | Speaking of British gear I'm having a whole lot of trouble with these ProAcs and brightness. It's running both my wife and I out of the listening room. The ProAc distributor, my dealer, and even the competition say that it must be something in my system as the ProAcs just aren't bright. They believe that it is my speaker cable. I'm taking my cable to Portland today to make'em prove it. I will also be giving another listen to the Totems. I've always loved the ProAc sound, I don't know what to say. Well, off to work I go. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8545 Registered: May-04 | "ProAcs just aren't bright." Yeah, tell that to the Harbeth salesperson. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3307 Registered: Feb-05 | She is the Harbeth salesperson. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2688 Registered: Dec-04 | That was the 110's Art? And the same tweet is used in the 140's I think. Did you try the 140's? |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4201 Registered: Dec-03 | Thanks and all the best, Larry. A diagram of the listening room is on the page linked in my post above; before the post with the picture. The lab measures 17m L x 13m W x 14m H. Audiences and researchers enter the lab at ground floor level and walk out onto an acoustically transparent, modular grid floor suspended 4m above the structural floor......The 'house' configuration is arranged as 5 layers of 8 channels plus 6 discrete subwoofer channels.....Layer 1 at ground floor level consists of 4 x Genelec 1038Bs and 4 x Genelec 1037Bs in an octophonic configuration plus 2 Genelec 7071A subwoofers located front centre and rear centre. Layer 2 consists of 8 x Meyer UPJ-1Ps also in an octophonic configuration suspended from the technical gantry approximately 5m above the ground floor. There are also 2 Meyer UMS-1P subwoofers at this level suspended front centre and rear centre.....etc. etc. So the listeners are sitting and standing on that golden-coloured postage stamp just below and to the right of centre. I assume. They talk about sound "diffusion".... Hmmm. Re Cambridge Audio, it is one of the Audio Partnership brands: http://www.audiopartnership.com/ |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1430 Registered: Oct-04 | Good grief, John! I mean, how much did that "room" cost? And what chance do any audiophiles other than millionaires have of ever coming close to that sonic setup? As in - - -uh - - -none. Well, I hope they use good cables! (grin) speaking of which: Art: waiting with bad, uh, "bated" breath for your report on whether your cables are brighter than, well, . . not being in the "cables make a huge difference" camp, I'd look for some other cause of your brightness (the gear's brightness, not your personal - -oh, you know what I mean!) Today brought home to me - again - the differences in CD "sound." A friend loaned me a 1983 CD of Kiri Kanawa - a CD I did not have, and later copied down onto black CD-R for personal enjoyment. Anyway - the sound on the disc was tinny, had harsh overtones and was generally strident. Even after cleaning and down-copying the sound was just not acceptable - even on the DVD-87. Put that disc up against one of her last recordings, just a decade later, and the sound quality was entirely different. Gone was the sibilance, gone was the grain, gone was the uncomfortable ear-piercing overtone array. Hmm. . .many variables at work here, but it follows most of my listening tests in that the CDs from the start until the very late 80s or early 90s were lacking in many things. Now I'm thinking of downloading the still-beta "Exact Audio Copy" to see if that can/will change the sonic qualities of the early CDS. BTW - the DVD87 helps even the worst of the CDs in my collection, and I'm still "high"on the unit, despite its great information-voids. Sigh. John A - I wish I could put the CA up against the Rega, just fer the funnuvit, and see how really great your player must be. But until I find a unit to compare the CA with, I'll just say that, for us, uh, persons of limited means, the CA is very, very good. Respectfully. . .LarryR |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8549 Registered: May-04 | Then how does she describe the Harbeth sound? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3308 Registered: Feb-05 | Nuck my man have you been following. The 140's ain't in the budget. So I went to Portland and took my cable to listen to a whole host of other speakers and low and behold, Paradigms weren't bright but all of the high end speakers I listened to were. Got a good listening session in with the Totem Rainmakers and they are a very nice speaker but they aren't in the same league with the ProAcs. If you hadn't already guessed I bought Analysis Plus interconnects for the CD player and new speaker cable. Much better now. Tomorrow I will make a few adjustments. Very tired, long day at work and then in Portland. Good night to all. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4202 Registered: Dec-03 | Larry, I should be happy to swap players for a weekend. Not practical. I doubt is there would be big differences. Except I could finally try SACD at home! I bought the Rega because I have many Cds, intend to keep them, and want to hear all that's on them. Two years ago I was raving about DVD-A. I intend to calm down and listen to music. I agree about early CDs. I do not think there is much anyone can do. I think CD recording reached a plateau by about 1988. I have some very fine recordings from the late 80s. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1431 Registered: Oct-04 | John A - you are quite right, sir - the CD "sound" seemed to change for the better by 89 or 90 - though not on all labels. Deutsche Grammophon still has many discs that are over-bright. Your Rega still sounds like a near-perfect piece of gear, and I wish you, indeed, many years to come of happy CD-listening! As it is, I've found that most of my CD collection is sounding better than ever - almost touching SACD-level in a few cases. I am happy about one thing, however: there seems to be a constant stream (ok, trickle) of re-mastered CDs coming on the market. The Desmond Toronto album to name just one. Better sonics, for which I am grateful. Art: Wowzer, sir - you had a day of it! I still have to admire your ears, sir! The mere fact that you can hear obviously big differences between one cable and another - especially speaker cables? You may remember the many tests that Mer and I went through, and apparently "failed." Sigh. I'm a tad curious, however: How much does one have to pay for "great quality" interconnects? And how much difference in quality do you hear? Not being snide or challenging you on this, sir - just curious, as ole recovering journalists tend to be! (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3310 Registered: Feb-05 | It's really not about how much you have to spend Larry. It's more about buying good quality cables from companies that make them and then finding cables that work well with your gear. I wound up spending about $200 (a 1 meter pair) on interconnects and $150 for a 12ft run of terminated biwire speaker cable. Very reasonable. I could have spent many times more (if I'd had the money) and have benefitted sonically from it but the improvement with just this was amazing. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1432 Registered: Oct-04 | Art: thanks for the info - I sincerely hope that your new cables make enough difference for you and your wife to enjoy the music! Sounds like you're getting a pretty well-balanced system. . . How did you decide on the particular brands? Ads - personal testing - friend/salesperson advice? There seems to be a wild array of cables out there, and frankly, I'm overwhelmed by the choices. . . |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3314 Registered: Feb-05 | Teri at Stereotypes sold me the speakers, amp, and cd player so she had a pretty good idea what would go well with them. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2701 Registered: Dec-04 | I have been following, Amigo, I missed the part where you Have the speakers. I was thinking in the listening room at Teri's to try the 140's. Glad the cables made such a difference. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2733 Registered: Dec-04 | BTW, Larry, the dealer I called to check out the B&W speakers said he had the Cambridge 640 on the rack as the best that he could offer, by a long shot. Nice to know, you and me both. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 583 Registered: Nov-05 | Not that I think SACD is dying, but for those who like the format there is a petition you may sign on the link below to help preserve it. Please pass the link on to your friends. M.R. http://www.PetitionOnline.com/SACD/ |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1434 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck: I am very, very happy with the overall performance of the CA DVD87 - though I don't know how they can pack that much high quality into that small and, ok, inexpensive unit! I am continually impressed, and for me, that's very unusual! Rantz: REad it, signed it, and hope that it might have some impact. SACD DOES make a very large differencein sound quality, and I fervently wish that it might continue. Will Blu-ray kill it? Well, I don't think so - but I do think that some form of "solid state" medium will - a chip, a liddle thingey that you insert and let it do its thing silently and without moving parts. I've predicted that for a long time. Sigh. Meantime, let's have more SACDs!!! I know I'm preaching to a mainly non-classical audience, but my new disc, "Exsultate Jubilate!" - music of Mozart by the King's Consort - is simply mind-blowing! Hyperion CDA67560. Ahh. . . . .turning off the lights now - to soak up the music. G-nite from Swampville! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 584 Registered: Nov-05 | Larry - re: SACD survival, everything helps. Also thanks for you-know-what - those help also, seriously. Got a very pleasant jazz CD today - Stacy Kent "The Boy Next Door" (Candid Records) - a very nice vocalist accompanied by jazz guitar, acoustic bass, drums and sax and the talented guys that play them - good list of tracks, very good production and worthy of investigation by Old Dogs who like their jazz easy. Don't take my word for it - have a listen: http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/6040821/a/Boy+Next+Door.htm Cheers all - M.R. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4206 Registered: Dec-03 | Cheers, MR. I wrote this yesterday off-line, Larry, Hyperion is a really great record company, recently almost put out of business by an absurd legal decision upholding an editor who successfully claimed copyright on a performing edition used in one of its recordings. By the way, you are deeply in to "original instruments" with The King's Consort. Glad you liked it! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1437 Registered: Oct-04 | Rantz - yer welcome for all - and I do take your word for lots-ah things, sir. John A. - yes, the Mozart disc only came about because a group of "Friends of the King's Consort" put up their own money to produce it. Sigh. Worth it, so far as I'm concerned! I hope it sells a million copies. . . |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8575 Registered: May-04 | Rantz -How can you like Stacy Kent and find Blossom Dearie unattractive? Ms. Kent is a knock off of Dearie with a bit less sophistication, bop and swing. Johnny Cash - Personal File. The newest release is a double disc of "personal recordings" which Cash made over several years, though the bulk of the work is from the mid 1970's. Just Cash and his guitar performing selections which span his lifetime up to that point with an emphasis on songs he learned growing up and/or sang with friends. The recording quality is excellent (though there is no reason for less with the simple task at hand). Cash's voice is strong and resonant and he is in top flight control of his talent. Both the guitar and vocal sound as if they were recorded with a cardioid microphone. The "cardioid effect" is evident on the guitar which slightly softens the metalic twang of the strings. However, the same effect benefits the deepest and highest of Cash's vocal reach. If you only have one Cash album in your library, don't make this your second. These are literally "personal" songs and won't mean much to the casual listener. If this would be your twentieth Cash album, you will find much to admire. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 585 Registered: Nov-05 | "Ms. Kent is a knock off of Dearie with a bit less sophistication, bop and swing." A matter of opinion I'd say Jan. I have tried to listen to Ms Dearie, but found her little squeaky girlie voice a bit like fingernails scraping down a blackboard. And as for Johnny Cash, well - to each his own I guess. |
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Silver Member Username: John_sColumbus, Ohio US Post Number: 954 Registered: Feb-04 | Rantz, This is not bad for a fourteen-year-old. And she'll get better. http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6731060&style=music&cart=346689941 "And as for Johnny Cash, well - to each his own I guess." Agreed, although to be fair Jan didn't say everybody should be a fan. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 586 Registered: Nov-05 | John S, Will listen today when I can without disturbing sleeping beauty, thanks. And you're right - Jan didn't say everybody should be a fan. But neither did I re Ms Kent, which I think was more or less the point I was making. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2772 Registered: Dec-04 | I'll check the Cash. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 587 Registered: Nov-05 | John S I listened to Ms Olstead and added her to my wish list. Certainly a very pleasant voice - especially for a fourteen year old - but I'm afraid she'll probably be taken as just another knock off of Blossom Dearie with a bit less sophistication, bop and swing. "And she'll get better" - well she might, though she hardly needs to. Cheers. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8595 Registered: May-04 | Compared to Blossom, everybody has less sophistication, bop and swing. Get over it Rantz. I didn't insult you, I just asked a question. Ms. Kent has sophomoric lyrics and little sense of style and class compared to Blossom Dearie. Dearie is cool personified. Kent is tepid incarnate. If you don't like Dearie, or Johnny Cash, I don't really care. Good friggin' grief! |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8596 Registered: May-04 | Oh, yeah. Cheers! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 589 Registered: Nov-05 | Again - you're entitled to your opinion Jan, just like anyone else. And it is only an opinion. Dearie is cool personified - in your words: Good friggin' grief!" But, of course that's my opinion. So you too, get over it Jan - have another scotch! I understand the need - especially if you listen to Dearie and Cash. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3328 Registered: Feb-05 | I like Blossom and Cash...then again I like scotch...perhaps they're all acquired taste.. |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2728 Registered: Dec-03 | I like Cash! And I like Scotch! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3331 Registered: Feb-05 | Unfortunately everytime I enjoy Scotch I lose Cash... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8601 Registered: May-04 | Cash goes out, Scotch comes in. Scotch comes in, Cash comes in. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2780 Registered: Dec-04 | In reference to my earlier post: 'I'll try Cash' I'll check the Cash(to my credit). |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2781 Registered: Dec-04 | In like 82 or 83, a bank up here opened up a string of ATM's named Johnny Cash, with him as the spokesman. Lasted about 6 months, don't know why, but there you go. Bank was TD. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 590 Registered: Nov-05 | Well, I paid more CASH for another Tracy Kent CD yesterday and though some - Lord help them - might agree Blossom Dearie is cool personified, (and one or two others a little insincere about their opinion of her), myself and Mrs Rantz agree that the money spent yesterday has purchased about the finest hour's worth of jazz for quite some time. The title is 'Collection' and in the form of a 24 bit mastered limited edition gold Cd. Blossom, if you were cool personified, Ms Kent would give you frostbite Dearie!  |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8613 Registered: May-04 | Insincere? Now you're calling everyone a liar? Seems Ms. Kent has become a fad with you. Blossom endures. I've listened to Blossom Dearie for over thirty years. When you've done the same with Ms. Kent, let me know. Possibly if Ms. Kent ever gets to work with artists such as Ray Brown, Jo Jones and Woody Hermann, she'll "squeak" into a memorable live. As is, well ... Should TK wish to give Ms. Dearie anything, she will have to get to the same planet where Blossom resides. So far, Ms. Kent hasn't found Earth yet. Oh, and the new Johnny Cash album is pretty good too. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone though. It's a bit grown up for some folks. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 593 Registered: Nov-05 | The fish are biting and the cotton is high. But:"Now you're calling everyone a liar?" Please indicate where I stated 'everyone'! Gosh, not only is your hearing off, but it seems you are having difficulty reading as well. Jee whiz Jan, if you like Dearie and Cash that's your prerogative. Not everyone agrees with you - so just get over it and next time try not putting down someone's opinion just because you are an obsessive fan of old has-beens. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2826 Registered: Dec-04 | Not that there's anything wrong with that... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8614 Registered: May-04 | Better obssessive-fan-of-an-old-has-been than The passing-fad-of-a-never-will-be. Other than that, Michael Franks thanks you. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2827 Registered: Dec-04 | However, a shot of 'whatever makes me happy' might be in order... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2828 Registered: Dec-04 | Make it a double... |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1439 Registered: Oct-04 | OK, OK - I hereby assign ALL the Dawgs one full hour, non-stop, of listening to Charlotte Church. THEN you can continue - or, for that matter, "may" continue your barking. I will surely strengthen your collective character! (GRIN)(heh, heh, heh) |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 594 Registered: Nov-05 | "The passing-fad-of-a-never-will-be" Wake up Rip Van Vigne it's 2006. http://www.staceykent.com/bio.asp and tell Mr Popsicle Toes it was my pleasure. Larry Charlotte Church - do you really like Charlotte Church? Just kidding old friend. At least my recommendations don't bruise your sensitivities. We are, after all, permitted to like what we like and who we like. Anyway, I made a simple recommendation of a singer whom I thought was worthy of a listen and what did the poor girl get - a blast from the precious Mr Vigne that she was a Ms Dearie knock off with lesser attributes in this and that - certainly a dig at my opinion or musical taste. You know all too well, from recent circumsances, that I place no importance on this sort of slanging or much else for that matter, however I find it somewhat amusing and a little entertaining. Lord forgive me, but fishing is fun when they are biting. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8615 Registered: May-04 | And, your point is? http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=blossom%20dearie Please take note of the 173,000 possible responses. I think my assessment of TK to be accurate. She does have less sophistication, bop and swing than Dearie. Most everyone does. Even the samples provided by your link abundantly indicate that truth, plain and simple. (And, I happen to have a few of Ms. Kent's CD's.) If you refuse to accept the facts, that is hardly my problem. Ms. Dearie is in a league with only a handful of similar legends, as you can see by clicking on almost any of the pages and pages of links I've provided. That you don't realize her talent and dismiss her as a "little girl voice" is telling indeed. Though it is your perogative to buy whatever music you choose, should you choose someone with lesser sophistication, bop and swing, so be it. I never indicated otherwise. If you can point to where I said otherwise, please do so. However, I doubt Ms. Kent would consider it a slam to even be discussed in the same terms as Blossom and, with their similarities in style, I suspect she has heard the comparison before. That you should consider it a "dig at my opinion or musical taste" is disappointing. That you should broach no disagreeement is even more disappointing. As you say, "We are, after all, permitted to like what we like and who we like." I merely asked a question. It was you who found an insult that wasn't there and applied it squarely between your eyes. As to the Johnny Cash remark. There is no weasling out of what you clearly meant by your comments in reply to my suggestion that long time Cash fans will probably like the new CD. And, conversely, should you not have aquired a taste for the finer musicians of the age, then you probably shouldn't investigate the new JC CD. Spend you money for yet another copy of "Brother's in Arms" or some Steely Dan re-do. Insult someone's taste?! Disparage another's opinion?! You might be having fun with your line, sir, but it is only your myopia which permits such pleasure. By all rights, I should demand an apology. It is I who have been insulted by your outrageous and egregious remarks. That other's agreed with my preference for two great talents can hardly be considered "insincere" by any but the lowest of the low. Is that where you prefer to cast your line? Trolling for the bottom feeders? |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1440 Registered: Oct-04 | Well, I "guess" I haven't insulted anybody with my tongue-in-cheek suggestion? Rantz: Do I "like" Charlotte Church? (yeah, I know you're kidding) Well, I understand that she is a sincere and somewhat-talented young lady who is making a lot of money praising God in song and apparently has not committed any major crimes. So yeah, I guess I do like her. But I don't have any of her CDs. (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: KeggerWarren, MICHIGAN Post Number: 2731 Registered: Dec-03 | Allright with all the squabling about Tracy Kent and Blossom Dearie I went and listened to a few cuts of each one (As I've never heard any) and I gotta say from the limited listening my preference would be Tracy Kent by quite a wide margin. I really didn't care for the Blossom stuff to much at all but kinda liked the Kent I heard. Sorry guy's but hey I wanted to see what all the fuss was and that's my oppinion. Continue on! |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 325 Registered: Dec-03 | Dump Kent and Dearie and listen to some people with talent! If you want to hear some ladies that can sing and actually write music and lyrics pick up titles from Neko Case, Cat Power, or Jolie Holland. There! BTW the Cash recording is excellent. It was recorded in the early 70's, so you are catching Johnny in his prime. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 595 Registered: Nov-05 | "By all rights, I should demand an apology" What - do you think I'd give one because you demanded one? You sure are a funny guy Jan. If you must know, the insincere remark was about a poster who had agreed with my opinion about Ms Dearie on another post a while back (I tried to find it but could not) and had changed his tune this time around - in homage to the mighty Jan Vinge no doubt. As usual Jan you are quite content dishing it out but can't take it when someone disagrees with you or gives it back. Return to my original responce to your post after my Ms K recommendation and read on - I did nothing more than respond in kind. And I certainly didn't put her on any pedestal as you seem to be making out - just said she could hold her own with many other of today's good female jazz vocalists. And sir what is your point with the google link? Ms Dearie was around before the baby boomers - Good grief, you make silly comparisons. As I said, you sure are a funny guy Mr Vigne. Good evening. Kegger, I find Ms Kent's voice very pleasing. Hers is not one of those stand-out voices that immediately grabs you, but one that I find easy and controlled the more I listen - especially on the two discs I mentioned. I don't care much for the track lists on her others. And her husband plays a nice sax, but then he wouldn't have the bop and swing of Mr Getz and is much less sophisticated of course. Of course it take time (and usually death) to become a legend :-) Oh stop it Rantz! |
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Silver Member Username: Black_mathPost Number: 326 Registered: Dec-03 | Alison Krauss is a legend...last time I checked, she was alive. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2835 Registered: Dec-04 | Nothing up's your value like dying! Fortunately, my value remains low. And hopefully remains so for a bit yet... |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8621 Registered: May-04 | Sir, since you've decided to make this an argument about your perception of me rather than of any talents the two performers might share, I see no need in furthering this discussion. It is clear where you would prefer to take this. It has nothing to do with whether there is anything to like about either woman. And I surely do not qualify for your predominant argument. You expect those reading your words to have telepathic powers to understand what has not been stated. I thought this might be an interesting discussion of two performers. I see you had no such intentions. I'm done, Rantz. I'm not willing to carry this into the range of personal deprecation. I would, however, suggest you get your artist's names correct. You might buy the wrong disc by mistake and then have to stand up for something you don't believe in. http://www.staceykent.com/bio.asp "Well, I paid more CASH for another Tracy Kent CD yesterday ... " My Rantz; Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 11:38 am: So, how does Tracy compare to Stacey? Do you like them both? Is one a legend and the other not? You get to decide. As always, I leave you, Jan Vigne, agent provocateur with the powers to make men lie about their truest intentions. You may all bow on the way out. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2841 Registered: Dec-04 | Uhh, no. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2842 Registered: Dec-04 | But I will tune in again. And THESE? are the days of our lives? Oy vay. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1442 Registered: Oct-04 | Nuck: Sorry, Canucks aren't allowed to use Jewish phrases. They're all, uh, Catholic, you know! (grin) |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1443 Registered: Oct-04 | Anybody have an opinion about Cal Tjader - or is he dead, too? Hmm. . . . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2848 Registered: Dec-04 | Well Jesus Christ! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2849 Registered: Dec-04 | Time to play 'dead or alive'. Ok, Jesus is dead. Keith Richards? |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 761 Registered: Feb-04 | Keith Richards is more alive than all of us combined! He's full some astounding, unnatural life force. I saw a telecast of KR performing a duet with Norah Jones (!) He seemed to be the one that was half her age. 'Alive' I like Johnny Cash, too. He used to be full of vit and vim. 'Dead' Cal Tjader. 'Dead' Never really 'Alive' Jesus Christ. 'Dead' and 'Alive' |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 762 Registered: Feb-04 | Ben, Neko Case, Cat Power and Jolie Holland are not old enough to be considered seriously on the 'Old Dogs' thread. Neither is Jenny Lewis, who's new album is very fine also. |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 763 Registered: Feb-04 | Larry, Forget Cal Tjader, check out The Jimmy Giuffre 3 for good mellow jazz http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000002JMG/104-5035129-8628753?v=glance&n=5174 |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1444 Registered: Oct-04 | Hmm. . .Norah Jones. Ravi Shankar's daughter. . . interestin' |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1445 Registered: Oct-04 | 2C - whoa! Hadda do quick-time to Amazon to check out Mr. Giuffre. Where the heck have I been? Where the heck has he been? Thank you! I've GOT to order some of his recordings - NOW! My kind of "mellow" jazz, fer shore! To Amazon I go. . . . |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1446 Registered: Oct-04 | 2C - ordered four of them - CDs, I mean - including one that I "really" want to hear: Giuffre with the Modern Jazz Quartet! My kind of "easy" jazz, with thanks to you sir! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 596 Registered: Nov-05 | "I would, however, suggest you get your artist's names correct." Oh Lord forgive me for I mispelled. Tracey instead of Stacy - my apologies to Ms Kent. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. OUCH! Now cut that out Jan! |
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Silver Member Username: Two_centsPost Number: 764 Registered: Feb-04 | Larry, Giuffre's music is "easy" in the sense that you can pick up the melody easily, at least on his 50's recordings. But it's fairly innovative stuff for the time--small combo jazz without a drummer or piano player. I haven't heard his recording with the MJQ. Let us know how it is. In the 60's Giuffre went in the direction of free jazz. Not so 'easy' to get. Just a cautionary note, Mr. R. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 597 Registered: Nov-05 | Oh and Jan: "I thought this might be an interesting discussion of two performers" Well I guess it would have been interesting at least for you if I had rolled over like a dog and agreed with your opinion. "I'm not willing to carry this into the range of personal deprecation." Nor I sir. I merely deferred to your mightyness and I still say you are a very funny guy. Okay folks, the show is over. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8629 Registered: May-04 | Oh, and ... Two statements which contradict one another. Interesting. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4218 Registered: Dec-03 | Friends, this is all misunderstanding. Some of us like one thing, others prefer another. I can't do the actual French but I've heard it translated as "Each to his own sauce". Or "stew". Peace in the kennels. Please! |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1447 Registered: Oct-04 | John A. - I second the motion, sir! 2C - Three, not four. CDs, that is. One is not available at present. And your point about the "free jazz" in Giuffre's later albums is well taken. After auditioning some snippets, I think I'd best stay with his earlier work! I am old, set in my listening-ways, and probably in need of some upgraded music appreciation training! (grin) Hey - I thank you for pointing me in that direction, 2C. You have enlightened me on many occasions, and I bow to your expertise in matters musical. . . And yes - of all the CDs, I perhaps look forward to the one with the MJQ the most. I think I have nearly all of their CDs - Mer is particularly fond of them. |
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Gold Member Username: Larry_rNaples, FL Post Number: 1448 Registered: Oct-04 | Ben James: Sir, after late-night ramblings, I forgot to post above that I had at least sampled the offerings of the three ladies you mentioned in an earlier posting. Although I'm first to admit that I may be in a rather narrow groove listening-wise, I do on occasion try to break out - and thus I thought to give fair chance to the singers in question. Bestest I could, that is - meaning that my auditioning was limited to Amazon snippets. But heck, give me enough snippets and even this ole dawg can get some idea of the overall potential. Maybe. . . My impressions: Jolie Holland - spare, haunting, almost seems as though she's singing only to herself. For me, not a great "singer," but a fine stylist, within a narrow margin. Neko Case - look out below! She's a bopper, with an up-front style that will surely please cross-over fans of both rock and country. Cat Power - AKA Chan Marshal - not only is she shy, but her recording producers don't put her "out front" enough. I get the feeling she wants to crawl back under the covers. For fans, she must be a keeper, but she puts me to sleep. OK - given the fact that this is not music I listen to at all, I still thank Ben James for sending me out and about just a bit. Now, Ben, I toss out a suggestion to you: find yourself a CD of - or even an Amazon snippet of - Kiri Te Kanawa singing "Songs of the Auvergne." Hey - it's only a sugg-jest-shun! (double grin) Whose singer is "best?" Well - who's listening to her/him? One man's Soul is another man's Opera. And vice versa... |
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Gold Member Username: Rick_bOrlando, FL Post Number: 1366 Registered: Dec-03 | Peace in the kennels. Please! I'll second that motion. WOOF! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4222 Registered: Dec-03 | Woof, Rick. "Chacun a son gout". As Canteloupe might have said. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8632 Registered: May-04 | Ok, let's see what sort of response this gets. Does anyone out there listen to Alberta Hunter? I just picked up "Amtrak Blues" on vinyl at the used record shop. The recording was made in 1980 when Hunter was in her mid-80's and just a few years before her death. Despite being on the Columbia label in 1980, the sound quality is quite good. And, the music is exceptional. Does anyone else have any suggestions for other Hunter discs to look for? Or, is this someone who just didn't do bad albums? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000025IC/103-6580689-2671067?v=glance&n=5174 http://www.redhotjazz.com/hunter.html |
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