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New member Username: TorridicePost Number: 1 Registered: Jun-06 | I mainly want to listen to music. So I think I might go the 2 channel route instead of the 5.1. I hear I will get better quality that way for my money. True? Second I like hardcore, indie music. But I also enjoy instrumental. So I want quality sound that is sharp and not distorted. I can spend about 500-600 on speakers. Should I just get a really good pair of floorstandings, or some other route? Looking for some direction and maybe a good receiver. I don't need to go crazy on volume, I don't want to scare the neighbors, I just want quality stuff. I was thinking about the Harmon Kardon two channels. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2945 Registered: Dec-04 | Anthony, you can get a H/K receeiver from a number on online retailers and a pair of Athena f2.2 speakes to do just dandy. |
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New member Username: TorridicePost Number: 2 Registered: Jun-06 | Thanks. I'll check those out. Is H/K a good way to go. Are they one of the top brands? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2961 Registered: Dec-04 | I like them and so do a lot of others. Hard to beat for the price. Honest power, pay for the features you want. For stereo in particular, a lot of value to be had. If your dvd player is a good one, movies can be had in 2 channel and are pretty good. I have not owned or even heard the Athenas, but lots of people shopping in the price range you are in have said that there are none better. Ed comes here quite a bit and can guide you to the best set-up. The dude can shop! |
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New member Username: TorridicePost Number: 3 Registered: Jun-06 | Who is ed? Should I be spending more on the speakers? Can I get something better by spending a little more? |
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Gold Member Username: Suleman36Maryland U.S.A. Post Number: 3896 Registered: Feb-05 | I also recommend the Athena F2.2 floor standers Best place to order them from is www.audioadvisor.com / authorized dealer and $400 shipped !!! Whould go perfect with a HK-3480 |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4198 Registered: Mar-05 | The F2.2s would be a good choice, but even better would be the Alegria Audio Emmas --- these are not floorstanders but they put out the bass of a floorstander (no sub needed, no joke) and if you can get a b-stock they're about $500. http://www.us.alegriaaudio.com/B-Stock.htm http://www.us.alegriaaudio.com/Emma.htm The other option is to go with a pair of bookshelves and a subwoofer. With your budget, I'd look at the Hsu STF-2 ($350 shipped b-stock from hsuresearch, $425 shipped new) and the Athena AS-B1.2s from audioadvisor.com ($120/pair). If your room is smallish you could get the smaller STF-1 ($250 shipped b-stock, $320 shipped new) with a pair of Ascend 170SEs ($370 shipped new, less for b-stock). The Ascends would definitely give you the best overall sound quality (accuracy and naturalness) of the bunch for any application, though the Emmas come very close and have superior bass and party dynamics. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html |
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New member Username: TorridicePost Number: 4 Registered: Jun-06 | Man how can those Emmas put out such sound? Like speaking in terms of the physics. The large cones are best for bass because of their mass, and tweaters for highs with the same reasoning. Easier for them to move fast. I just don't get it. From the reviews I might save up a little more and get them though. It sounds like they're sick. |
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New member Username: TorridicePost Number: 5 Registered: Jun-06 | Also, are you keeping in mind the music style? I like hardcore. Distorted heavy guitar, deep screaming vocals, harmony vocals, guitar leads. I also like indie music. Slightly distorted guitar, clean vocals. I want to make sure they'll sound good for that. So I'll need some good bass for the double bass pedel on the drums and deep guitar, but I don't and never will listen to rap or any type of dance music. Thank you everyone for the help! I think i've learned a lot so far. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4209 Registered: Mar-05 | The Emmas' secret is the huge rear port, which necessitates positioning them at least 2-3 feet from the front wall, unless you WANT boomy bass. I don't know for sure how they'd sound with your musical tastes since that's not what I played on them when I had them. It sounds like you might want to look into JBL, lots of good deals for them online. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 952 Registered: Dec-03 | "The Emmas' secret is the huge rear port.." Sort of. The large port is used because of the large displacement of the woofer in a small box. The real secret is the voice coil/motor design of the driver. It's capable of maintaining cone control under heavy excursion. |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 957 Registered: Dec-03 | "Man how can those Emmas put out such sound? Like speaking in terms of the physics." It's like totally physics man. You need to displace air right? That can be done with short stroke and large cone area, or long stroke and smaller cone area. (If you have both you can really make some noise, eh?) The voice coil used in Emma's woofer is a patented design that allows for extremely long stroke without the coil passing beyond the magnetic gap. No other voice coil design can do this at the same time it keeps motor strength nearly flat across a very wide excursion range. When it reaches the length of travel the motor can still exert the needed strength to get it back the other direction and vice versa. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 79 Registered: Apr-06 | Trust me, the Emma has no problem with bass output. It is easily comparable in terms of quantity with my old CSW towers which featured dual 8" woofers, while qualitatively it is superior. I still have a bit more listening to do with them, but I have gone over the beatles white album which runs the gambit from very soft to pretty hard. Whether they were playing Helter Skelter or Dear Prudence, the Emmas did a fantastic job for me. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4211 Registered: Mar-05 | heh, so much for my wild guess... |
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New member Username: TorridicePost Number: 6 Registered: Jun-06 | @Timn8ter Man I love science. That's sweet. I didn't really think about ever even doing it that way. It is all just about the air displacement. I think I might just save up for those Emmas then. They sounds pretty tight. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1597 Registered: Feb-04 | t's like totally physics man. You need to displace air right? That can be done with short stroke and large cone area, or long stroke and smaller cone area. Or better coupling from the vibrating membrane to the surrounding air (e.g. through horn-loading). |
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Silver Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 958 Registered: Dec-03 | Sure, and while we're at it, let's not forget Hoffman's Iron Law. LF response, box size, and sensitivity form the three key aspects of system design. To increase any of the three, you have to give up something from the other two, with size being the most sensitive as large speakers are often unpopular while high power is relatively inexpensive. |
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Bronze Member Username: HannjeffHalifax, Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 79 Registered: Jun-06 | I just bought a set of speaker stands from paradigm, and there awsome. Super heavy, The foot on them is huge, and the floor spikes really help alot. You might want to look at them, like, $100/pair |
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Bronze Member Username: HannjeffHalifax, Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 80 Registered: Jun-06 | http://www.premier-av-furniture.com/ Heres the site link, I have the s series, I dont remember the height, I believe the 22" stands. There excellent. |
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Bronze Member Username: HannjeffHalifax, Nova Scotia Canada Post Number: 81 Registered: Jun-06 | Oh my, I need to go to bed. I didnt even read that you wanted speakers, not stands. My top 2 brands in floor standings are klipsch (reference series), and paradigm (monitor series). I have monitor 9's which have very tight bass, and excellent high and mids. I listen to alot of metal and rock on them, there excellent. |
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Bronze Member Username: BvgArvada, CO Post Number: 40 Registered: May-06 | We've just finished a long running series of auditions to find the best floorstanders in the mid-3 figure range (each, so high three's to very low 4-figure range for a pair). Look into Kef. We have the iQ9's in our family room, and a pair of iQ3's (large bookshelf's on stands) in our front room. We just found iQ7's and an iQ6c for our home theater set up on sale. http://www.kef.com/qseries/look.htm We listened to a wide range of other names, and no one came close to our ears in this price range. Your mileage may vary... Sound is awesome. The big floorstanding iQ9's do want an amp with kahunas. The iQ7's are a little easier to drive. Both have ample bass response without a sub for music, although you'll still want a sub for HT. Good luck. |
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New member Username: TorridicePost Number: 7 Registered: Jun-06 | So if I plug the iQ9's into that H/K 2 channel would that be good enough, or do I have to buy the reciever plus another amp? |
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Bronze Member Username: BvgArvada, CO Post Number: 42 Registered: May-06 | We're driving ours with a NAD C720BEE. Rated conservatively at 50wpc real world, with 3.4 dB headroom. NAD spec's also mention 65wpc max continuous output. If your H/K is similarly capable, you'll be fine. Both brands are known for 'honest' spec's. |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzOakland Park, Florida USA Post Number: 419 Registered: Apr-04 | The Emmas...You guys say the bass is great, but can they provide the SLAM that a tower can? I've never heard and felt a bookshelf speaker do that. |
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Gold Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 1014 Registered: Dec-03 | A 2 driver tower? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3317 Registered: Dec-04 | Oooohh, I'm all a quiver, Tim. You know I've been scoping out the Revel Concerta 12's, and the Kef iq9's as well as the B&W 703's(to a point) looking for RnR speakers. What say you? |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzOakland Park, Florida USA Post Number: 420 Registered: Apr-04 | 3 driver tower. But, even a 2 driver tower...? |
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Gold Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 1015 Registered: Dec-03 | Define "slam". I think you're referring to transient response during highly dynamic passages. This requires adequate displacement and a driver with a high BL motor. This will allow the speaker to reproduce the impact that typically drums have, for example, without getting out of shape concerning the rest of the music. Cabinet size has very little to do with this as long as the internal volume is correct for the drivers being used. For example, if I took the drivers in Emma and put them into a larger, floorstanding cabinet chances are the cabinet will be too large in which case you're likely to "slam" the voice coil former into the back plate, not get improved dynamics. Obviously, all other things being equal, if you have another driver available (i.e. 3 driver, 2 way) you can achieve increased displacement and complimentary motor strength resulting in better transient response during highly dynamic musical passages. By "all other things being equal" I mean, similar quality of components and sound quality. Of course, this will result in a larger, more expensive speaker. In the case of 3 way speakers it's pretty obvious you can keep all the drivers well within their best operating range and gain even better dynamics. A 4 driver, 3 way tower makes an excellent rock speaker for this very reason. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3328 Registered: Dec-04 | Tell me more, Big Fella. Does a pass rad help the bottoming of the motor, or just muddy things further? |
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Gold Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 1016 Registered: Dec-03 | It can aid in controlling excursion by providing increased damping to the driver below the cabinet's tuning frequency, however, a PR design still behaves like a vented box. The only real advantage of PRs is the ability to make the box smaller than you would with a traditional vent pipe. A passive radiator is just another kind of port. It is not the same as having another driver nor is it a "better" sealed box. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3335 Registered: Dec-04 | So it's 3 xr2 drivers with a stovepipe for the tower? |
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Silver Member Username: TwebbzOakland Park, Florida USA Post Number: 421 Registered: Apr-04 | I'm not really thinking about the technical aspects of "slam", your note is enlightening. I refer to the ability of a speaker to convey very dynamic bass passages in a way that when loud, have very high impact and force similar to that of a live amplified performance (Rock or Dance/Techno). It seems to me that bookshelf speakers on stands can be loud with extremely high levels of accuracy, but the bottom strength does not seem to be there (to my liking). To me, there is an audio perception that the bass is not coupled to the room/floor. |
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Gold Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 1017 Registered: Dec-03 | That's what I said, except for the floor part. Nuck, http://www.timn8er.com/alegria_audio_ruby.htm Just for fun I recently went to a high end tweeter and a full 4th order crossover solution on this one. I'd say it slams. |
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Gold Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 1010 Registered: May-05 | Rick and Anthony, I can very clearly state that Tim's Emmas' will provide sufficient bass for most music genre's, including rock. I'm not sure if that's their best use given the incredibly clear highs and smooth mids. However, I A/B'd them against my 30 year old Altec Lansing Stonehenge IIs that have a 12" woofer and the Emmas compared very favorably. Do they handle bass as well, it depends. They may not go as low but they're not nearly as touchy about room placement to avoid boomy bass. So, believe Tim and Stephen on this one. Now Tim, those aren't Rubies, we've seen pictures of your "Ruby" and those are not the same "Ruby" you were selling before. These Rubies make me want to forget about the Myras. Boy, are they pretty and if they sound half as good, I'm going to need to come play with them soon. Thanks, Dave. |
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Gold Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 1019 Registered: Dec-03 | Ruby's not for sale, it's just a plaything. A marketable design may come out of this at some point. I think it's a good example of what it takes to make something that can play deep, have impact, achieve high SPL and low distortion. It's not necessarily stand-mount vs. floorstander. It has mostly to do with the ability to displace air with a minimal amount of distortion. To displace truly large amounts of air simply takes a large speaker. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 663 Registered: Nov-05 | If this is anything to go by, it seems you're on to something with your new Ruby, Tim. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_3/raw-acoustics-ht3-speakers-7-2006.htm l |
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Gold Member Username: Timn8terSeattle, WA USA Post Number: 1022 Registered: Dec-03 | Same idea although one of Al's primary goals was a narrow front baffle which is why the woofer is on the side. |