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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 25 Registered: Jan-06 | On Gavin's advice I went to checkout Martin Logan's Vignette and Fresco series to go with my Plasma. I listened to Vignette but did not like it due to shallow bass. They did not have Fresco but I assume it would not be a whole lot better. So I listened to their electrostatic ESL series Vista and I was blown away. They have the discontinued floor model Aeon-i for $2000 a pair and it sounded great. Here are my questions. 1. I had pretty much decided on Paradigm Studio 100 for front but now I am inclined towards ML Aeon-i. How much better is Aeon-i compared to Studio 100. Should I go with Paradigm or Aeon-i? 2. For rear the dealer recommended the vignette. Will it go well. 3. ML Depth Sub sounded awesome but it's a little expansive. Should I settle for Groto? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2936 Registered: Dec-04 | 3. Expansive(wide ranging) or expensive($)? |
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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 26 Registered: Jan-06 | I guess I will have to test both in my room if I do decide to go with Martin Logan. How about comparison to Studio 100 and overall value for money as I can have either pair for exactly the same price. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2938 Registered: Dec-04 | karmran, if you can try both inyour room, I would not try to offer an opinion.Yours will be the deciding factor. Very diffrent speakers, very different presentations, your opinion will tell. Do let us know! |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1209 Registered: Feb-05 | Kamran, the vignette MUST be used with a subwoofer. If it is set up properly, it sounds great. Yes, the Fresco is a much better speaker. I myself am not a huge fan of the Aeon i, and feel that the clarity actually sounds better. However, I am in the minority here. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 27 Registered: Jan-06 | Nuck, I can only try the two subs at home but not paradigm and ML fronts. I searched the web but did not find any review where both aeon and studio 100 were reviewed together. Do u know if such a review exist anywhere. The other thing is the price performance between the studio 100 and ML aeon. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 28 Registered: Jan-06 | Gavin, I saw your reply to my other post for wall hanging speakers. You said Clarity, Vista, Vantage are much better. The only reason I considered the Martin Login was due to the price for discontinued Aeon selling for $2000 (same as Studio 100). I watched the X-man flying sean with the ML The overall cost will be higher with ML due to the center chanel costing about $1700 vs for Paradigm around $1000. |
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Bronze Member Username: PlatoWoodbury, NJ Post Number: 42 Registered: Oct-05 | Go with ML. Nothing wrong with Paradigm, but the Logans are on a different planet. If budget is an issue, see if you can find a pair of used Ascent i (not the Ascent, the Ascent i) and they'll be even better than the Aeons. Good luck! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4202 Registered: Mar-05 | I agree with Max, the ML electrostats are on a whole different planet. And unlike the Studio 100s which would require a monster amp to really sound their best, the MLs have powered subs and will sound very pleasing enough with a run of the mill receiver/amp. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3381 Registered: Feb-05 | For the money you can do better than either. I would do some more listening before settling on one of these. |
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Bronze Member Username: PlatoWoodbury, NJ Post Number: 43 Registered: Oct-05 | Art, Ascent i can be found used for $2500. What's better than that for $2500? |
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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 29 Registered: Jan-06 | Where are Ascenti available for $2500 or less? What would be good match for rears as I read in forum not to mix dynamic with electrostatic like Vignette? |
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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 30 Registered: Jan-06 | To drive these Ascenti or Aeoni what would be a better choice of Amps Rotel RMB 1075 or B&K Reference 125.7 S2? |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3386 Registered: Feb-05 | Max I put out a whole list of speakers that I would prefer over Martin Logans on another thread. Sorry I didn't have time to do that here earlier. I simply don't think much of Martin Logan speakers. We each have our preferences. I would look at: ProAc Dynaudio Totem Von Schweikert Vandersteen Joseph Audio Sonus Faber Vienna Acoustics To name just a few. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1408 Registered: May-05 | I couldn't agree with you more Art. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 31 Registered: Jan-06 | Going back to the question on suitable surround and matching AMP. 1. I do not have room for floor standing rear so it will have to be something wall mounted to go with Aeoni or Ascenti. There is a slight chance that I may be able to mount Scripti but I need to know what other alternatives I have. 2. To drive such speakers what would be a better AMP/Pro combination based on price performance. My preference would be Rotel 1075/1068 but I am willing to consider B&K. What do you suggest. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1411 Registered: May-05 | kamran - If you like the Martin Logan sound and are going with them for your mains, you're best off buying Martin Logans for the rest of the speakers. MLs have a different sound than anything else out their. Some love them, some hate them. Nothing else will match well in a system that has MLs for mains. As to the B&K - Rotel comparison, generally speaking B&K is a better product. Overall they're better built, have more power, and have less problems with difficult speakers. MLs are definitely a difficult speaker for an amp. I haven't directly compared the two specific amps you mention, but I'd be surprised if it weren't true here. However, this doesn't mean that you won't prefer the Rotel sound to B&K. B&K and Rotel have different sound charecteristics. The best bet is to go out and give each one a good listen, or ask your dealer(s) for a demo unit of each one and try them at home. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4215 Registered: Mar-05 | kamran, the Rotel would be ample for MLs ... like I said, with their built-in powered subs you really don't need massive power behind them like the Studio 100s. I imagine even an HK 635 would do just fine. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1413 Registered: May-05 | Just because they have a powered sub built in doesn't mean they're easy to drive by any means. Their electrostat end (or whatever technical derivative they happen to be) still requires an awful lot of clean power and current. The powered sub does free up the power from the amp to all go to the electrostat panel, but that doesn't make the electrostat area an easy load. They still dip down pretty low impedence wise. The MLs are also very unforgiving in flaws down stream. The Rotel in question should do a decent job. However, I'd be willing to bet B&K for a few dollars more would do a much better job. It really not a matter of which will sound good. I think the Rotel will sound good. It's a matter of which will sound better. Unless you really don't like B&K's house sound (a few people don't), the B&K will do a better job. IMO, the differences are very audible and more than worth it. B&K delivers more quality and clean current, and raw power than Rotel does. Everything the Rotel does, the B&K does better. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4216 Registered: Mar-05 | All I know is, my local Tweeter had the Aeons powered by a lousy $400 Denon AVR and they sounded awesome. Far better than the $4000 Focal floorstanders in the next room powered by a $20,000 Krell amp in fact. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 32 Registered: Jan-06 | Thanks for all the feedback. The Rotel Amp 1075 (125 Watt x 5) is priced at $900 where as, the B&K (125Watt x 7) is priced at $1800. Even if I add a Rotel 1080 for 2x200W to make 7 channel it will together still be under $1800. And I really don't need 7 channel amps at this point. Due to the price difference I think I will go with Rotel. I just have to find a good deal on ML Ascenti or else get Aeoni. |
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Bronze Member Username: PlatoWoodbury, NJ Post Number: 44 Registered: Oct-05 | Art, I guess you are right, it's a question of opinion. Ascent i retailed a little over $4500 and, even a that price, to me and to many friends of mine they sounded like speakers twice that price. But I guess it's a question of personal preference. Kamran, if you are planning on getting Ascent i you will need the Rotel 1080. Ascent i work at 4 ohms peeking down to less than 1 ohm. The 1080 will give you 360 watts per channel at 4 ohms. The 1075 will work, but you can get more out of them with the 1080. You might want to look at the Sunfire amps. Many ML owners use those for surround systems. They are more expensive than Rotel, but you might want to look at the used market as well. Good luck and watch, the Logans are addictive! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4217 Registered: Mar-05 | Kamran, you might only need extra power for your ML mains, in which case a far less expensive AVR with pre-outs and a 2-channel external amp would be the smarter way to go. Something like this: http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product_Code=HK+AVR635&JRSource=PriceGra bber.datafeed.HK+AVR635 Plus something like this: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html or http://www.northamptonaudio.com/nad/c272.asp Heck, I would first try running the Aeons with only the HK...you just might be pleasantly surprised! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3393 Registered: Feb-05 | I'm glad you agree Max. That's why they make all of those speakers. There is something for almost every budget and preference, thankfully right. |
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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 33 Registered: Jan-06 | Max, I'll checkout the Sunfire line but I have a feeling they will be way too expansive. My budget for the amp/pro is $2500 and Rotel fits nicely. If I were to add an additonal Rotel 1080 ($800) I may do it as it will give me 7.1 capability. If I can get a sunfire 200Wx5 for under $1400 I will consider it. |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1215 Registered: Feb-05 | just got back, I was not impressed with the aeon i, but keep in mind that this was in a DEMO setting. I have not heard it in my home. There seemed to be a discontinuity with the woofer and panel that the clarity and ascent i did not have. |
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Bronze Member Username: SoundideasPost Number: 89 Registered: Jul-05 | I would take Polk Audio lsi-15's over any of these speakers! ML are good speakers but they stay in the repair shop alot, the panels need replaced about every 3 years or so! |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1232 Registered: Feb-05 | go to www.martinloganowners.com and ask them if ml have reliability issues if you are concerned. they know more than I do about issues like that. I have not heard about the new panels having any, but the older panels (10-20 years ago) were jknown to have to be replaced every ten years or so if the owner was a smoker. That was the only issue that I am aware of. the elestronics are / were reliable. |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1233 Registered: Feb-05 | Quad stay in the repair shop, the older quad ESL53, NOT martinlogan. |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1235 Registered: Feb-05 | at least that has been my understanding of the older quad... my apologies for the multiple posts, I wrote those before I went to sleep :-P |
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Bronze Member Username: TomcatAllentown, PA Post Number: 67 Registered: Jan-06 | Just to let you know, I ended up getting the ML Ascent-i used and Parasound A51/C2 and the sound is awesome. |