I need a bookshelf recomendations
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Bronze Member Username: JayosaPost Number: 60 Registered: May-05 | well i was told the bose arent realy good so i need to know what other boolshelfes to buy..i currently have athena asb2's as my 5.1 setup and asc1 as my centre chammel,,these athena's sound very very good so wich ever other speaker that is recommended please tell me of a brand that is significantly better sounding then my athena's ...i dont wanna upgrade if there only gonna be a bit better...they must be bookshelfes and in the price range of $1000 or maybe a little higher...im looking to use them for mainly movies and some music,,,,i have a HK 330 reciever that im not willing to chamge...i will be also using it with my athena sub ps4000 i have....well im hoping at that price range i can get referance bookshelfes or THX what ever that means |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1415 Registered: Sep-04 | I don't know how well the HK can cope with more difficult loads. Here are a few speakers I like which should be around your price range that I consider to be a step up into the meatier section of HiF capability: Dynaudio Audience 42 - entry level from Dynaudio Dynaudio Audience 52 - next one up, lots more presence Dynaudio FOCUS 110 - difficult to drive but excellent fun Totem Dreamcatcher - entry level Totem, tiny to look at but big sounding speaker Totem Mite - next one up, more of everything and a bit easier to drive than dreamcatchers Avi Neutron IV - quirky, small, fun and capable Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: TdogroederDes Moines, IA Post Number: 129 Registered: Sep-05 | JM-Lab Cobalt 806 S. http://www.focal.tm.fr/accueil_en.htm |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4130 Registered: Mar-05 | jay, first figure out exactly what it is you're not getting from your current system and what you hope to buy. Saying I want "better" speakers is not helpful. Also, what's your music vs. HT usage? What's your CD and/or DVD player? |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1191 Registered: Feb-05 | we also need something to work with, such as your music taste. Otherwise you are going to get suggestions that mirror our own personal preferences, which may not work for your ears or musical taste. Also, there are many excellent speakers that don't have the THX seal on the. Wilson Audio, which is widely reguarded as the manufacturer of the finest speakers on the planet, does not have a single THX certified speaker. However, I can guarentee you that they will outeperform many that have that "stamp of approval." Just because my PC speakers are THX certified does not mean that I want to use them in a reference audio system. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 33 Registered: Apr-06 | Funny since thats what skywalker ranch used for the longest time, if im not mistaken. |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1192 Registered: Feb-05 | they STILL do as far as I know, yet they aren't THX certified... :-) dave wilson has better things to spend his money on. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 34 Registered: Apr-06 | I thought I read on B&W's website a while back that they were switching to 800 series speakers, but I could be mistaken. |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1193 Registered: Feb-05 | yup, just went to the THX website, and wilson audio is not listed. Go figure, if lucas uses their speakers, you'd logically assume that they would be certified. ...wonders if watt puppies are too good for the THX certification criteria... go figure, krell is on there, but WA isn't. this furthers my point that quality can not be jugded by using THX as a guideline. |
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Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 23 Registered: May-06 | jay cuba, There's no reason to spend $1,000 on some bookshelfs...only to feed them 50 watts. Invest in a power amp and use your HK as a pre-amp. Some nice pre-owned power-amps. Here is a brand new Boston Acoustic amp on clearance at onecall.com http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=26578&FEID=191&PMNID=416&ASaP=1&sr ccode=cii_14110944&cpncode=07-8893400-2 -Michael |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1582 Registered: Feb-04 | Interesting theory there, Michael. What's the rationale for it? |
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Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 26 Registered: May-06 | Peter, I wouldn't really call it a theory, more of a hypotheses. Do you have a receiver or pre-amp/power amp combo? If you have a receiver that is similar to Jays HK330, play a good 2 channel source on just your main front L/R speakers. Turn up the volume and really listen to it. Now, change it to Logic 7, 7 or 5-channel stereo or something similar. Notice how the sound quality has degraded? It will be the same for DD or DTS encoded material. Of course that's because in 2-channel mode your receivers amp section is supplying all of it's power to only the two channels. And most entry-level (Pio 816, Marantz 4500, HK335) to mid-level(3805/6, RxV2600, HK635) receiver pushes 100-120 watts in 2 channel mode. But when it come to 5 or 7 channels driven, the lower priced models run out of power, only pushing 45-55 watts +/- 10. Or go to a boutique store and ask to listen to something multi-channel (DVD or DVD-Audio) with an entry-level receiver, then a power amp that is pushing 120+ watts rms per channel. He's feeding his Athenas about 50 watts rms (though they are pretty efficient at 91dB), yet they're capable of handling 150 watts. There would be a very noticeable improvement in overall sound quality by giving his 5 channels some real amplification. He never really answered any ones questions about what his system is lacking. I bet he would hear more improvement with one of the aforementioned power amps and a new subwoofer along the lines of an SVS or HSU, rather than a pair of $1,000 bookshelfs. -Michael |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 51 Registered: Apr-06 | Michael, while I don't dispute the fact that running a seperate power amplifier will have some benefits, you do realize the difference in the wattage between 50 and 100 is only 3dB, correct? The benefits of higher end amplification is not about the wattage. Their power supplies tend to be more robust, and as a result, can handle more difficult loads than the power supplies in typical receivers. In addition, running a seperate pre-amp has benefits in reducing noise/distortion. This is generally moot in the case of using the HK as a preamp, as its preamp section is still inside a receiver with lots of things to generate interference. Now the question is, how robust is the power supply of the HK AVR330? At its price point, its pretty darned solid. HK is known for delivering on their specs, unlike other brands at that price. In addition, HK is known for handling difficult loads quite a bit better than most of its receiver peers. The Athena's on the other hand, while an excellent speaker for their price, could be improved upon much more than the receiver with the money jay is willing to spend, particularly as you note the subwoofer. Personally I'm obtaining a pair of Alegria Audio Emma's (damned fed ex is taking forever...) and pairing them with an 80wpc HK stereo receiver. The Emma's are a very benign load, which should give my modest receiver little or no trouble. They are a little on the inefficient side of things, but with 80 watts driving them, I don't see a problem for myself. I rarely turned it up past -20dB on my old Onkyo receiver with my old setup back in California which used only slightly more efficient speakers. YMMV though. |
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New member Username: PointeOttawaCanada Post Number: 6 Registered: Jun-06 | " HK is known for delivering on their specs, unlike other brands at that price." Just out of pure curiosity, what are some of those other brands? Higher end Sony? Yamaha? Or are you talking NAD and Rotel, etc? People make the exact same statement about them, but everybody can't be better than their competition. I know it's off topic, but I'd love your thoughts... |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4176 Registered: Mar-05 | HK, Marantz, and NAD tend to be the most honest with their RMS numbers. http://audio.erobinson.net/ |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 52 Registered: Apr-06 | In the price bracket of the HK 330 (~450), competitors like Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony, and Pioneer tend to inflate their numbers a tad. You'll note a lot of 100wpc receivers on the market, but on various review sites, namely sound and vision, which bench tests them into 8 ohm and 4 ohm loads with all channels driven, only a few actually make their spec. There was one horrid example of an Onkyo NR901 (their flagship receiver) rated for 100+ watts that made something like 45. On the other hand, a modest HK AVR-140 makes its 40 watts, and amazingly instead of spec-ing it for 100, they're halfway honest and rate it at 40... I was browsing by S&V the other day and they had a 3-way receiver shootout between an integra, a yammy, and a denon I think, and the integra in particular fell on its face, which is pathetic for what is theoretically the higher end line of Onkyo, and meant to compete with bigger fish. In the higher end brackets with brands like Rotel, NAD, Cambridge Audio, et al, they do make their specs. But for the price they charge, I'd hunt them down like dogs if they didnt. |
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New member Username: PointeOttawaCanada Post Number: 7 Registered: Jun-06 | Right. I guess you could say that NAD, Rotel etc start to also give a taste of the personality of higher-end stuff. HK, in my mind, has always been straight forward gear made really well. Thanks. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 54 Registered: Apr-06 | Depends on who you ask I guess. My thought is this: if they are both supposedly so great and faithful to the original source, how come they don't sound more alike, if not identical? If fidelity to the original signal is your goal, and they both approach that reasonably well (as they better for the money they charge), shouldn't they be more alike? Instead you hear how Rotel is relatively bright and NAD is warm and blah blah blah. I just wonder sometimes. I've never owned products from either company, but it just makes me scratch my head sometimes. Hence why I stick with a product I know is relatively straight forward and built really well  |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2869 Registered: Dec-04 | Stephen, do you listen with a straight through (bypass) turned on? Do you have analog signal from the cdp to the amp, to use the DAC's from the player? If not, you are hearing the receivers influence, and Makers do NOT want to sound all alike. How boring would that be, and how much brand loyalty could they influence? |
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New member Username: PointeOttawaCanada Post Number: 8 Registered: Jun-06 | Answer to stephen is: in achieving fidelity, the sound becomes both warm and bright and a whole lot of other things that $1000 can't buy. That's why people spend the big bucks. To your ears, HK is balanced. To mine it's a bit anticeptic. But that's where the fun starts, like Nuck says. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 55 Registered: Apr-06 | Currently I'm "in between" systems, waiting for my speakers to arrive (ps I hate fed ex; they left Portland, OR on the 3rd and havn't been tracked since). However, the current setup is such that I have a stereo receiver, the HK 3380. Nothing to bypass per say, since it has no onboard DACs/digital processing/etc, which results in the second part of the answer, yes I do use the players DAC, although I might consider obtaining a high end outboard DAC at some point, along the lines of the Benchmark DAC-1. Mind you I'm not saying that receivers dont sound different. Im simply asking a question which bugs me: if all receiver makers are trying to sound like the same thing, that is live music, why do they sound so different, particularly at the high end where one would expect that they would be fairly neutral instead of bright(Rotel)/warm(NAD)? Is it really that hard to engineer a neutral product? "How boring would that be, and how much brand loyalty could they influence?" Quite a bit. There are still things like build quality (McIntosh vrs Onkyo!) which set the difference. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 56 Registered: Apr-06 | "in achieving fidelity, the sound becomes both warm and bright and a whole lot of other things that $1000 can't buy." I can understand why lower end makers might have to make sacrifices, but at the price points which Rotel and NAD sell their products, I really find no excuse for their colorations. There should be no warm and bright in this area, simply neutral. But of course as Nuck said, then they would have little to differentiate their product from that of the competition...which just makes me wonder how high end is "high end"... Mind you I'm not saying my HK is the end all be all; but I doubt you will find anyone that will beat their build quality at the price they sell the majority of their products. Sadly though, I havn't even gotten to play it with real speakers yet. It does a great job with my Grado headphones though! |
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Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 27 Registered: May-06 | Stephen, I do realize it's about the high current for tough loads (not specifically watts), reserves/headroom for demanding peaks, etc. I was just trying to defend my point in a way someone could replicate what my ears have heard. I've listened to some HKs and have to agree their sound quality is good at online prices. But what is with all the refurbs available? I think I read somewhere on AVS that the last generation (335, 635, etc) had its share of problems. -Michael |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 57 Registered: Apr-06 | There was some hum associated with them; of course one could say the same thing about NAD as well. In HK's case, I believe (but could be mistaken) that there was a design flaw in which the power supply vibrated against the chassis. In any event, I would still imagine the OP would get a bit more musical enjoyment by switiching to a pair of Paradigm Studio 20's for his mains at this current juncture than he would by obtaining a seperate power amplifier. Mind you, a seperate power amplifier would be needed to drive the Studio 20's to their maximum potential, but the improvement would nonetheless be quite noteable w/o it. On the other hand I don't think Athena's would be quite as appreciative of a superior power source. |
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Bronze Member Username: Noya83Portland, Oregon USA Post Number: 31 Registered: May-06 | I'll definitely concur with that. I auditioned some Studio 20's at the local boutique shop...they were amazing. I liked their sound much more than the B&W's. |
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Bronze Member Username: StefanomSilver Spring, MD United States Post Number: 59 Registered: Apr-06 | The choice I made was to give the Alegria Audio Emma's a shot with my receiver. They're a benign load for any amplifier to drive, so the HK will likely have no issues with it. I would be more than happy to share my impressions of them with my when they arrive. They run 499 for B-stock and 699 new, and from other members impressions of them, they are a great speaker. |
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