After much soul searching
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page| Thread | Last Poster | Posts | Last Post | |
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| Archive through August 16, 2006 | Nuck | 100 | ||
| Archive through July 13, 2006 | Ravinder Bains | 100 |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 254 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, I agree, no you definitely don't want to roast little Leo. I had considered building an outboard PSU for the A60, I was considering putting a mains switch, plus fuse, an enlarged transformer, some high quality rectifier diodes, and smoothing / reservoir caps in an external case, with a large umbilical cord to link into the main unit. But I held off since I have so many irons in the fire at the moment. I still need to complete my mods to my ancient but wonderful JVC CDP. After the JVC is completed, I'm afraid it is time to hang up the soldering iron. This DIY audio stuff is educational, but if I used this time to earn some extra cash instead, I could probably be looking at a Levinson/Krell/Boulder setup (instead of my more humble fare), since the DIY mods are so time and labour intensive. cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3838 Registered: Dec-04 | You will have quite the sale Rav! I need to remove the gear from the wall hangers I have now, and this well known stand may well be a fine addition. Has anyone tried it, or have opinions? http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/flexye.html |
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Silver Member Username: Rick_rossPost Number: 369 Registered: May-06 | yo |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3864 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks Rick. Maybe a little more than 'yo' would be more fun. The amp is home, did a 4 hour pick today, came home and... the daughter is setting up a knitting loom in the listening area. It has been here since x-mas. Today of all days... so I have a pint, shuck the corn for dinner(mmm...corn) and bide my time. Hey, family time(given that I have so little)..helping assemble the loom... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3870 Registered: Dec-04 | The amp is home and...no output on the left. Un-freakin-believable! My heart is broken, I stand a beaten man. But I stand. Plan 'B' looks more and more likely. I just can't believe it. I am barely strong enough to pull the cork on a scotch bottle! Barely. I have to follow up on the ca300 amp now, but to balance the budget, i may have to trade the Rotel cdp1072. I do NOT want to do that. Just me and Glen to figgur it out. Sucks! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3519 Registered: Feb-05 | Sorry to hear it Nuck. Full steam ahead (after a night with Glen) with plan B or C or whatever gets you satisfactory music. Keep at it (like there's a choice)! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3871 Registered: Dec-04 | Yup, Art, only mo' money stands between me and the kit I want. As always. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Cheers! |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1780 Registered: Feb-04 | Sorry to hear about the problem with your amp. My avr is in the shop for its dead FR channel, so I can relate a wee bit. I'm using a Carver preamp in the meantime, so stereo but no 5.1. Are you taking yours back? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3873 Registered: Dec-04 | It is done. Last chance for a once fine(?) amp. I now pursue the ca 300 from dealer 'B'. the rest of the kit, I will keep.Price dependant. It is smokin' good, best I ever heard!!! |
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Bronze Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 98 Registered: May-06 | Now you're sounding like the Who - Who's Next - The Bargain; I'd gladly lose me to find you I'd gladly give up all I had To find you I'd suffer anything and be glad I'd pay any price just to get you I'd work all my life and I will To win you I'd stand naked, stoned and stabbed I'd call that a bargain The best I ever had The best I ever had |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3877 Registered: Dec-04 | If the board offered an intonnation, Mike I heard it. SKOL! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3879 Registered: Dec-04 | Peter, you only need 2 channels, like 2 ears, JA? |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 754 Registered: Nov-05 | My commiserations Nuck - whatever happens in the end will be all worthwhile. Just have to make it happen. Besides the loom has taken over. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4500 Registered: Dec-03 | Hi, Nuck. I've been away. I am catching up. You have a new modded CA 300 amp with no left channel output. Send it back. If not, open it up. It could be something trivial and obvious. You also have a loom. The "Yo" attack is over. Rav has a son called Leo. That's nice. And an audiophile rug made from Kiwi feathers (er... just teasing). Sorry I am not up to speed. I saw a recording session in progress while away. Maybe I'll mention that on Old Dogs or somewhere. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3881 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi John. There is comfort to be had in knowing you didn't miss much, eh? Rather like Coronation Street, a week means little. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1597 Registered: Sep-04 | Hey Nuck, smokin good? Please don't say that!  Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3892 Registered: Dec-04 | Frank, the amp is not smoking at all. Don't say that? Would never dream of it. |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4504 Registered: Dec-03 | I didn't know Coronation Street reached Canada, Nuck. My condolences. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 762 Registered: Nov-05 | Those folk on Coronation Street cannot be still living???? Like those folk who still watch it perhaps? :-) |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3900 Registered: Dec-04 | It's been here forever, 6 months behind. My sis and BIL watch regular, and I stay there sometimes. The dealer had no idea why the amp is non-functional once again, but both he and I have lost confidence in it. The price will get reworked, and he is fine with me keeping the other stuff to run with another amp. I mailed the other dealer with the ca300 amp, see if I can nab it this weekend. Will report. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 257 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, just catching up with your news. It's a shame the CA20 was so problematic, sorry to hear that. I hope the CA300 works out, I did some Googling on CA300 to see what I could find. Certainly looks like a beast of an amplifier (a refined/thoroughbred of a beast -no doubt). Man, that is the kind of amp, where you need to invite the neighbours to the party, just to ensure that no one calls the local constabulary. -cheers Rav |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 770 Registered: Nov-05 | Is this yours Nuck? http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/8771-classe_ca_300_like_new_just_back_fro m_classe_checkup |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3902 Registered: Dec-04 | Same model MR, yup. Likely near the same price in the end I hope. The one I am looking at is in silver(unfortunately) but it will sit on the floor alone anyhow. My stand will not hold that depth(nor likely the 100 lbs)! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1605 Registered: Sep-04 | So Nuck, Can you tell us exactly what you're hoping to run? I got confused somewhere back there around post 150... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3923 Registered: Dec-04 | Indeed, Frank, it has been a jumble sale in the last while. Update... The first player is the Classe CT-1 transport, digitally linked(via sonic link coral cord) to the Classe DAC-1 converter. The DAC is also accepting input from the Rotel 1072 cdp, via digital input, dual rca analog input is also operable. Currently, the DAC is feeding a cp-50 pre amp, via Sonic Link 'voices' series XLR. The pre will feed(this weekend, I hope, if I get back from Halifax) a ca300 amplifier, again via Sonic Link XLR. The amp is powering Psb Stratus Silver speakers via Liberty 14g biwire and handmade terms. If all is in order in Nuckland(yeah, right) I will have the new computer this weekend as well, feeding digital out to the dac via SPIF to deliver full size digital files from the computer upstairs. A video link will run along , and a bluetooth keyboard and mouse will let me run all files from the listening area, viewed on the 50" tv. There is a lot to be said for a receiver and a turntable. It should be good. The whole process has not been painless or cheap, nor has it been as graceful as an Esther Williams routine, but welcome to my world. Frank. Thanks for asking, BTW, and thanks for everyone's help and interest. Much appreciated. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3974 Registered: Dec-04 | The ca300 is now on site, and connected via Sonic Link XLR. I will not give the results yet, until dinner is done, the scotch stirred and a reasonable assessment is made. It is good at first blush... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3976 Registered: Dec-04 | The new amp is in place, all connections are good, speakers are in as good a spot as I have right now, all systems are green. The first spin is from a collection cd, American Pie. The cut was run at about 4 watts, nice and comfortable. Wow! This tune, barely audible, delivered the goods in spades! The amp delivered bass, in perfect time amd rythm, with little more than a whiper of power. Other amps I have tried demanded a loudness button or a bass knob boost. My current kit offers neither, and requires neither as well. The power of the amp will drive bass at any power level, any time anywhere. I have yet to open the amp up at all. Company is here, and my in-laws agree to the sound coming from the basement. The system is all that I had hoped for. At small listening levels, the performance is as smooooooth as any. The bass has authority, the highs just melt away, not roll off, just melt. The mids and male vocals are dominant, as required, and direct the choir accordingly. More listening tonight, no scotch yet, did the dishes. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 112 Registered: May-06 | Couldn't you suggest a nice little restaurant for everyone to go to but oops, you had to stay back and finish up some "research"? I am shutting my system down for the night, joining some friends at Poor David's Pub to hear my guitar instructor in an acoustic gig. So between my Linn spinning all day and my activity for tonight I may not be able to hear your rig unless you get north of 4 watts. I'll be listening for you. Maybe the dealer with the 300 will package a couple of floor standers for you if not the dealer for your DAC... My Esoteric led to my Linn and your 200 led to your 300. Good things can develop from bad, although it does come with a price tag sometimes. You and I have been on the long and winding road with a few hills thrown if for effect in our system overalls. I am really glad you have your amp and it is Nuck friendly. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3979 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Mike. have a great evening! I will maybe see what the other 596 watts have in store. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1803 Registered: Feb-04 | Often, all you really need is an excellent first watt. That's what the tube guys say. As you all know, there is no such thing as a minimum required power for speakers anyway. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3984 Registered: Dec-04 | I ain't gonna get sucked into your mess, Pete. Y'all can take it behind the shed. Ultra low power to my speakers in my room yield very,very good results. 4 watts is my best guess, I guess pretty close. I will eat a lot of guss for this, but 4 watts of this amp is nothing like 4 watts from an Onkyo receiver. Duck and cover! |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1804 Registered: Feb-04 | Well, all I really meant to say was that even though you will find occasionnal use for all that power, you didn't appear to have sacrificed the first watt to get it. :-) I do like it when amp have meters on them, so you can tell what is coming out of them, and how close you are getting to the maximum. But I guess 'd trade them for your Classé. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3987 Registered: Dec-04 | And I would trade for a good set of blue/green eyes. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 259 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, very pleased to hear that the system is working well!!! The CA300 sounds like it is a magnificent beast of an amplifier (I was quietly confident all along, that once you had the right amp, you would have zero need for any Bass-EQ type function!). Gotta agree with Mike, you have been on quite a journey, glad to hear the destination was worth it, even though there were a few bumps in the road. Nuck: now the trans/DAC and amplification story is sorted out, you can enjoy the music for a while. After that it will be all head down and tail up for your PC based digital re-mastering activities. cheers Rav P.S. Just ever so slightly confused, do your ears have an in built power/SPL meter? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 3992 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Rav. It is all working very very well. Now to the room treatment, nothing fancy, but I will catch up with Tim, as he has added a 4" panel to great effect, and this will clear up some mid-high 'shrill' the appears at volume. The speakers face the short wall which is barren of all but paint, so I will shift things around a bit and damp things a bit. The power meterage comes from a combination of knowledge(largely gained here), listening distance, yelling from the family, and judging the expression on the cat's face as I run the volume knob. This amp is discrete in operation, thankfully. The Rotel was on it's gitgo at volume 1, and topped at like 35 out of 60. Never quite low enough to sit and quietly chat, ya know? This Classe is very discrete, 3 on the dial is very easy to listen to and play cards and such without raising a voice. Super! |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 113 Registered: May-06 | Oh no, you said cat. C-A-T? I had Candy (male, looked female when I named it) for 14 years. It wasn't until too late that I figured out why he insisted on defecating behind my speakers. Cats do not like loud music and sometimes will let you know in their own way. Please be patient with your cat if it does and perhaps it is better to have the cat far out of the room as the volume dial spins itself clockwise. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4006 Registered: Dec-04 | OkeeDokee, the kit is fully warmed. I know how much we love DSOTM here, I am thinking that 'The Wall' is a poor red-haired cousin.( no offence intended to testarossa's). I might offer 'run like hell' for a tester. the first run through, at low level was teriffic, all the attributes that I have already proclaimed, plus a depth that belongs singularly to the recording, not me. Next up was the same cut, 'run like hell' with the knob strangely to the right, 30 out of 60. Thats max, kids, for the speakers! Holy goodness gracious. The presentation, maximized is uhh... considerable. This is always a point of contention, because some members never listen at the max, other need not ever try, and some do not care. This kit is Smokin' rockin' and taking names. I must admit, even I was taken aback a bit. 'The wall' really brought out the best of it. Heartily endorsed, a must buy kit, I gotta get a drink and listen again. Now about the B&W 802's... |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1806 Registered: Feb-04 | with the knob strangely to the right, 30 out of 60. Thats max, kids, for the speakers! How do you figure that? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4008 Registered: Dec-04 | PG, I figgure pushing 200 HQ watts into the speakers till they bottom, then back off a tad is max. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4010 Registered: Dec-04 | Also, 'run like hell' is appropriate, given the spl going on. I am still lurking for B&W 802's. Now have power. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4011 Registered: Dec-04 | PG, the amp is 600w @4ohms, the speakers are like 250. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 778 Registered: Nov-05 | Hey Nuck, congrats on the amp. Sounds like it was all worth it in the end. B&W 802's????? You got too much money or something? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4019 Registered: Dec-04 | MR, I posted that in speakers as well. 802s3 Matrix, the exact model isn't listed on the B&W site or in the promo book I have. Used(pre-loved, thanks Ravi), for cheap(comparitively). Just shopping it around a bit. Thank you, my friend, Hotel California playing now. Life in the fast lane is awesome when the knob gets a spin, just really too much power to use, but the unheard grunt is good for what I do hear, if that makes any sense. It's all good, mate! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 780 Registered: Nov-05 | Aye, that it is, Nuck! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4023 Registered: Dec-04 | Raising a pint for Rantz. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 115 Registered: May-06 | Try Brian Salad Surgery - Emerson Lake and Palmer, as long as you're still sitting on 30. Heck by now you should have those woofers properly extended, you may want to boost to 32. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4024 Registered: Dec-04 | I revere Carl Palmer. He fits 4 other drummers that are the best ever. And yet I still drum away in vain... And sing away... |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1817 Registered: Feb-04 | "Bottom out"... Man, you are hard on the gear! I'd rather see LEDs indicate max than doing that my friend! :-) |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1818 Registered: Feb-04 | with the knob strangely to the right, 30 out of 60. Thats max, kids, for the speakers! the amp is 600w @4ohms, the speakers are like 250. Don't get people thinking that the knob going halve-way means halve of the available power! If 250W is at 30 in the volume dial, then 600W might only be at 32, not all the way to 60. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 120 Registered: May-06 | PG, The knob on the pre-amp is independent of the power from the amp to the speakers. The LEDs on the amp are not related to the knob on the pre-amp. Pre-amp outputs vary. One knob maxed out might only deliver 60% of the amp's power to the speakers where another amp might max out the amp's power at 32 on the dial as you suggested. My Carver 4000t Pre-Amp's gain output voltage is very high, where my Creek Integrated 5350 SE pre-amp out was very low, and my Rogue Audio Magnumm 99 pre-amp has a gain control in addition to a volume control knob. I do not want to blow up my speakers any more than anyone else. I doubt that I will ever be able to max out the LEDs on my Carver into my Gallo's but I could and have done so with my DCM Time Window 3 speakers. I did not take it from Nuck's post that 30 on the knob was 250W. That is his speaker's rating. He could be over or under that with the knob at 30. Without any meters on the amps how is he to know where to set the knob to if not for taking it to the limit and hearing it bottom out, backing down a tad? That's how I would do it, again not that I would, unless someone can enlighten me as to a better way. |
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Gold Member Username: PetergalbraithRimouski, Quebec Canada Post Number: 1821 Registered: Feb-04 | I did not take it from Nuck's post that 30 on the knob was 250W. It's a happy coincidence that he guesses half the power rating of the amplifier to be distributed when the volume dial is half-way up. I don't want people to make that association and extrapolate based on it. That's all. Without any meters on the amps how is he to know where to set the knob to if not for taking it to the limit and hearing it bottom out, backing down a tad? Well, that argues that any power amp is potentially destructive to your speaker if it doesn't have VU meters, doesn't it? Both my power amps have 'em, so I don't have that poblem. But I'd be worried about cranking the volume way up without them. I'll admit that my receiver doesn't have them, but at least it has a (semi-useful) dB scale. A reading of 0 dB maxes both out my amplifiers on the loudess passage recorded on a CD (usually drums when they are present). |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4025 Registered: Dec-04 | Yeah, that 'bottoming out' sound is not one which I suggest. Ugly, even once, but actually thats twice. The Rotel did that to the speakers once as well, I must attribute that to the amp being a bit course, as it happened at a lower volume. The Classe was just getting fun when I heard it, of course with my hand on the knob and inching up one at a time. Around 30, the single incrementss produce a vaer audible change in volume, though. Thats odd, because I was taught that about 3db is audible, and thats a doubling of power. At any rate, I am able to melt these speakers, deafen myself and anyone within a 2 house radius and basically be a pain in the rear. COOL! The speakers no longer have the 'modulation' issue (thanks for the word I could not find, Jan) and all is working very very well. Another week or 2 for the pc program, and off we go on that one. What fun! Now, about those 802s3's... |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 262 Registered: Mar-06 | Sounds like scary stuff......... (On the 802s3's I am not familiar with these B&W's, since I only know the later Nautilus series (curved cabinets). I had a quick look on audioasylum, and folks there were saying good things about the 802s3. Guess a lengthy home demo will be a must, before any potential purchase.) cheers Rav P.S. at the moment, I am enjoying listening to Bob Dylan's -No Mercy album on hybrid SACD. This is one which really shows what SACD can do, it just sounds so real(/natural) on SACD. Playing the CD layer on either the Onkyo universal player, or my modded Sony was no match at all for the SACD playback. Made me think it is a shame that these formats are dying. At my local Borders, all I can find are those stupid dual-discs! |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 785 Registered: Nov-05 | Ravinder, The hi-res titles are hard to get here in Aus, which is why I buy from acousticsounds.com or cduniverse.com. I have made several purchases from both these sources and even with postage added, they are mostly cheaper than buying locally. Amazon.com (and uk) is also not a bad source, though I shop around between them all. Hey, they are not dying yet, Rav - just looking a bit sick. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 263 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Rantz, thanks for the tip, I can be a little impatient, and find it hard to batch order a few/several CD/SACD/LPs in one go to save on postage. I use Borders a lot since oftentimes, I am at home, and cannot think of anything I want to listen to, and then I pop into the car, and drive to Borders, since it is open until 11pm. I do find it a little depressing that even Sony one of the co-inventors of SACD has not and is not doing enough to promote the cause of these hi-rez formats and higher fidelity in general. The record industry is so obsessed with MP3, and piracy issues, that they have totally forgotten about real music lovers who are willing to pay legimately for copyrighted material. This loyal band of customers is being totally neglected. Ho hum... -Rav |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 789 Registered: Nov-05 | Rav - I get impatient also at times waiting for an order. But, the beauty of places like cduniverse and Amazon is the ability to listen to samples. I investigate a lot of new music I would otherwise never get to hear at our local (mostly useless) music stores. But I agree about the record companies and their lack of promotion. Also the same can be said for the hifi store owners. I often chastize my local for his failures in this area. The hi-fi components are dwindling while the Sonos, HD storage units, HT gear, Big screen TV's and projectors are increasing in numbers to overtake the stores. And they still call themselves hifi! Hurrummph  |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 264 Registered: Mar-06 | Was home alone last night......... So I decided to put my system through a Nuck-like shakedown test, since I have been beginning to wonder if my AVi integrated amp is man enough to handle the Dyn 1.3se's. The volume control was set (for stun) at between 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock on the dial, dependant on the level at which the CD being played had been mastered. I have not idea at all about the wattage deployed or the SPL generated. But all I can say is that I could feel the bass hit me in the stomach, and see the Dyn's long throw woofer make large excursions on each bass note or kick drum beat. After about one hour of this, my ears were ringing and my head was buzzing. The amplifier was extremely hot also. The heatsinks were uncomfortable to the touch, and even the thick aluminium front panel was extremely warm. I worried for the temperatures inside the case, since standard caps are 85oC and uprated ones are 105oC. The Dyn's certainly came to life at high levels. I had been running them continously during the day for the last couple of weeks. I was satisfied with what was being presented to me sonically. The source material used was Placebo-Meds, and the latest Muse album. It was an enjoyable experience, the system provided a reasonable replica of what a highly amplified rock band sounds like, when in concert, also when played loud the Dyns provide the visceral impact needed. But I am starting to lean towards the conclusion that I need amplifier which does not necessarily have more wattage than the AVi but has more control. Since the Dyns are still burning in, (I have put 100+ hours on them, but still am noting gradual improvements in the mid-range), but they seem a tad sluggish at low levels. I am starting to conclude that these Dyn's really need to mated with an amp that is part of the Solid State royal family e.g. Gryphon, Krell, Classe', Levinson, or Karan etc. Also I would feel more comfortable with an amp that has some spare capacity on hand, since I feel that most likely I ran the AVi to the limit last night, stopping just short of the region where distortion starts to increase rapidly. I am not sure where this leaves my vinyl endeavours, but have the feeling my next move will be to buy a power amp, and run the AVi just as a pre-amp, until such time as I can afford a real pre-amp. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 130 Registered: May-06 | To get my ears to feel like yours Rav all I had to do was go to an Acoustic performance Saturday Night, sat if front, then found out it was an electic acoustic night. Ouch. Then if that was not enough abuse, the gun range the next day. Didn't have headphone earmuffs, only the ear plugs. My ears are finally feeling better this evening. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1610 Registered: Sep-04 | Ravinder, I am surprised that you felt that the AVi had reached its power limits, but if you did, all you need do is look at their own power amp. It's now in V2.0 guise and comes in at 215wpc. As you know from the integrated, they're powerful amps, but supposedly this new v2.0 model is not just more powerful but also far more capable musically. Since you like the AVi approach to music, it would be a logical step, and afterwards you could go to their preamp, which is a complete reworking of the original preamp in the integrated. Of course, this presupposes that you still like what the AVi presentation is about. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 265 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Frank, thanks for your reply, and suggestions. I am a little confused at the moment, talking to a friend of mine, he says that I am experiencing the Dynaudio burn in blues. He tells me that the 1.3se is notoriously bad, until it has undergone many hours of operation. Initially I had a honeymoon period when the superior bass extension, and scale of presentation of the Dyn's had me wow'd, and then the critical listening began....... At the moment I feel that the system lacks, micro-dynamics at low to medium levels, and really needs to be blasted to come to life. I do not actually know if I was close to the power limit of the AVi. I know that I ran the system, as loud as I could stand it. I did not hear the amp distort at all, in any way shape or form. My comment was based on a rule of thumb that I have heard reviewers mention, that on a amp with a logarithmic law volume control, you are probably getting the amps maximum undistorted power delivery when the volume control is at the 12 o' clock mark. I know this is EXTREMELY approximate. I am getting a little impatient I feel, and I have heard comments from friends and dealers who know the 1.3se that I should allow 300+ hours, before passing judgement. This does seem excessive, but it is matching with my observations that things are changing very gradually with the speaker mostly for the better. I like what the Avi is doing musically, when I was blasting the system it really was a pretty good facsimile of a rock band in concert. The bass was hitting me in the stomach (I have only experienced this before in a nightclub or at a live rock performance, and outdoors the only place where I have heard such bass was Wembley Stadium), also the Dynaudios were not suffering from any dynamic compression at all, it was quite amazing. I should fully optimize the Dyn's, before making any decision on the amp. I will be getting some better speaker stands, and will place paving slabs under them. Since at the moment the Dyn's are starting to push LF energy into the wooden floor (didn't have this problem with the NAD's). I think I just need to relax, and take a chill pill for the moment. cheers Rav |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 135 Registered: May-06 | Rav, I think if "u are probably getting the amps maximum undistorted power delivery when the volume control is at the 12 o' clock mark. I know this is EXTREMELY approximate." is pretty much a guess why abide by it? Wouldn't the type of cartridge you have affect where that mark would be on your dial? What about how well the media was created that you are running on your source? Lastly different input sources may have different value output ratings. Just my opinion. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 266 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Mike, true enough..... I was running using CD only, and the volume control was varying between 11 o'clock and 1 o' clock, dependant on how the CD had been mastered. I am getting a little neurotic I feel and trying to move things along too quickly I feel. Expectations are a difficult thing to manage! ciao Rav |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4512 Registered: Dec-03 | Short comment, following this all with interest. A volume control is a gain control. The position for max power without distortion depends completely on the input voltage. The volume control can be fully clockwise with no problem if the input is small. And 10 o'clock can be too much if the input is large. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 267 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi John, fully understand what your saying. In fact, I though the volume control was used as an attenuator, and the gain factor of the circuit actually remains constant. Unless, using a gain cell, where you do not attenuate the input signal, but use a potentiometer which literally does modify the gain of the circuit. PS Audio use gain cells, and I think that it is a generic amplifier building block, if you search long enough you can find circuit diagrams. I found and lost them a while ago, whilst trying to wade my way through PS-Audio's marketing spiel. Comment for John (now who's the pedant?) cheers Rav |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 137 Registered: May-06 | Rav, So if John and I agree how come he got the pedant? So what are you up to, ripping pots from guitars to put them where? And where in this thread did PS Audio come in? Its not even listed among your set up. Come to think of it, and since I am on such a disagreable roll, John, my guitar amps have volume and gain controls. The gain is to overdrive the signal in an effort to create distortion. On my Rogue Audio pre-amp, the gain control lowers or raises the input level outside of any changes I make to the seperate volume control. I usually keep the gain lower so that I may turn the volume control up higher, between 1 and 3 if it were a clockface. It is my understanding that the more open the volume control the better the signal processed. Note that understanding is similar to the word opinion as I do not have facts to reference for that last point. |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 268 Registered: Mar-06 | Mike, oops, I feel there may be a misunderstanding here. I only used the word pedant, since it referred an old post I exchanged with John, where I incorrectly stated Rega was based on the south coast of the UK. And in any case my meaning was that I am the pedant. The reference to PS-Audio was purely since they are the only commercial manufacturer I know using gain cells in their amps. Where the "volume" control is used to literally modify the gain of the amplifier, none of the input signal is discarded or attenuated. There may be some crossed wires here, I did not mean anything disagreeable or inflammatory. Apologies if I have caused offence, certainly none was intended. I totally agree with yourself and John. Peace Rav |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 138 Registered: May-06 | Rav, I didn't feel offended to begin with but thanks anyway. At least I now understand the context. You know more about what happens inside these boxes than I do so that is why PS-Audio did not fit to me. All is good! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1620 Registered: Sep-04 | Rav, If you weren't getting dynamic compression, then you hadn't reached the limits of either the amp or the speakers, but I'm guessing you'd have been fairly close! Yes, 1.3SEs do take quite some time to fully run in, but they should be much of the way there already - especially after blasting the cobwebs out like that. The low level detail stuff is actually the more difficult to attain. Not sure if this will change dramatically, since this is not a particular strength of the amp. It's up to the amp to bring the detail through at low levels which requires a significant degree of control as well as resolution. No doubt that the amp has the resolution but I wonder about low-volume detail retrieval. It's not something I've had occasion to try (ah, the bane of demonstrations where you always play fairly room-fillingly loud ). I don't think power is the issue here. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 9089 Registered: May-04 | . In almost any case the amplifier's gain is fixed. It can be changed by altering the components used, but once changed, its global operation remains fixed at that point until other components are changed. Change can occur with the natural drift of most components as they age though this is typically minimal when discussing gain. In a feedback based amplifier, the amount of feedback determines the final amount of global gain in the amplifier as a whole. The "volume control" changes only the amount of input voltage coming into the amplifier's front end or driver stages. No matter what amount of voltage comes in, the amplifier still increases the voltage going out by a fixed amount of gain. Volume controls differ in their construction and taper. A log scale taper on a potentiometer will have its largest voltage gains at the lowest end of the control. This is meant to utilize the most "usable" range of the control. It is used by receiver companies to give the impression the amplifier has lots of power since lots of power is heard with very little rotation of the "volume control". Linear taper pots have a set amount of variance between positions. Each time the pot is increased or decreased a predetermined amount, the voltage output is increased by a constant amount. Most high end companies employ the linear taper style of pot if they still use analog potentiometers. The pot typically has to be advanced further on the controllable range with a linear taper, but the control is more consistent throughout its range than on a log taper style pot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_taper http://sound.westhost.com/pots.htm There is no real way to "hear" how much power your amplifier is producing. Unless you are driving a very constant load and have observed your amplifier's reactions on a scope, with a predetermined input voltage, you can only guess wildly at how much power is being produced. Anyone who has had an amplifier or pre amp with fast acting meters or LED's will know that what they perceive as full power has long ago been reached on peaks. Frequency and time determine how much power an amplifier will need to produce in order to reproduce a signal without clipping. By the time most people hear distortion from their systems, the amplifier is well into clipping on peaks. The general rule most folks I know would give is when you hear distortion, you've already gone too far. Turn it down or risk damage. . |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4030 Registered: Dec-04 | I think my Classe has an input from said knob into a seperate control circuit, the output is discrete until it starts to ramp up quite readily with each click of the knob. Perhaps I am already into the upper ranges of the amp. I hope not. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4035 Registered: Dec-04 | Well ow the original dealer has come back and says the amp is fine, the posts were over-tightened and spun enough for a dead short. I recall this 'spin' actually, just a tad. I am going back again(yet again) for another go at the 200. Large difference in outlay of funds. Must be considered one more time. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4039 Registered: Dec-04 | The 200 is here and in service. I cannot detect a lot of difference in the amps(A/B) (connect time), at normal listening levels. They both sound great! The 'little' ca200 does tail a bit when things get cooking, but still at moderate volumes. The big ca300 just keeps coming in waves, as if it doesn't care. The 200 cares, but not a lot to be done about it, no tonals. The CP-1 transport has really begun to shine, especially with the 200 amp, it's presentation is quite wide, neccesitating speaker placement adjustments, but is REALLY working well. The 1072 player is as always, my choice for Rock(best ever for Rock, go ahead and beat it). Nothing has faltered, my lovely wife is making pepper sauce and complaining about the noise. All is normal. I cranked the 200 to the speaker limits, and found 35 on the knob, as compared to 30 on the 300. All seems quite linear, as Classe states' all of our amps use the same cuircitry, only componants are changed to accomodate power levels'. Fair nuff. All is good for now, I will be alone for an hour tonight to test the 'outer limits'. A Man has to know his limitations..Eastwood. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 810 Registered: Nov-05 | Hope it 'makes your day' hombre |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4041 Registered: Dec-04 | MR, the amp works much the same as it's older sibling. Solid, clean and unrelenting, up to the speakers limits. Very nice. And actually quite nice volume as well. The kit can be heard somewhat at the far end of the house, outside, all doors closed. I still desire better speakers, the B&W 802s3 are out there, working on the deal, need to try them here, but a bear on shipping. I hold a glass high to all the audio's whom have suffered so long, but found their destination. From Canada, Salud! |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 143 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, Has it occurred to you that your decision is made? However it is enjoyable to listen to the subtleties of one amp to the other. Let's see, 200 in budget, B&W 802s3 waiting for you, or 300 for the 1 hour a week you get to turn it louder and the B&W 802s3 on the wait until next year list? Just messing with you! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4042 Registered: Dec-04 | Killing me man. Check your e-mail. Or gimme a call |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1634 Registered: Sep-04 | Nuck, You said to just beat the Rotel for Rock huh? Easy... Naim CD5i Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3535 Registered: Feb-05 | Frank wins! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4060 Registered: Dec-04 | Looking that way... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4065 Registered: Dec-04 | Well I really wanted to keep the ca300 amp for my birthday today, but it goes back to the shop and the little black ca200 is here for good. Now to build a new stand for the outfit. |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 821 Registered: Nov-05 | Many happy returns for you Nuck. And no sad returns for the amp. Have a great day. MR |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1449 Registered: May-05 | "Nuck, You said to just beat the Rotel for Rock huh? Easy... Naim CD5i Regards, Frank." I'll one up that, even though it costs more... The Nait 5x. It does everything the 5i does, but significantly better. One of these days, my Naim dreams will come true. I could have bought the Naim system a few times over, had it not been for my brother needing a loan, my wife needing a new livingroom set... yadda yadda yadda... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4070 Registered: Dec-04 | OK OK, I think I meant a choice of what I have for Rock...Oy! Always better, of course. However, as an aside, I've just installed the Creative Labs X-Fi Platinum sound card in our new computer. WOW! This thing can do it all! Presently configured for 2 channel @ 44.1 for cd playback on the new player in the pc(Plextor PX 755) wired into the T-amp, with Lings at 5' listening. Holy cow! What a great suite this combo has to offer. The device plays everything from stereo to 7.1, upsamples, downrates, plays HDcd at 44(selectable and has a HUGE mixing and recording suite as well. Whew! This baby is headed via spdif straight to the DAC downstairs (sfter routing the cables). Very highly recommended for anyone wanting to try pc music.All analog, or all digital, SACD and DVDA supported (with Plextor player/recorder). A handful to gather, just starting out, will advise. Mike W. it accepts guitar intut (line out from your amp). A great toy, 200$cdn, with a fergin remote! Presently listening to the Hip, never meant for close/quiet listening, the 'yer favorites' cd. Live Clapton coming up. A late B/day for me, but ever so much fun! |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 162 Registered: May-06 | Happy Birthday, I will pour a Tomatin to tilt in your honor later this evening. I had gone to CompUSA and saw about 3 Creative Lab cards that could work form me. I will check out Frye's as well. I'll pick up one of them on sale soon. No worries about signal loss with a long run from PC to you system? Any special plans for the special day? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4074 Registered: Dec-04 | Hey Mike. The output is spdif and should not lose anything across 40ft. with good cable. Tonight is Lobster(brought back from Halifax) and a couple-three 2" T-bonz, Brocolli/creme/tortolinni and a few scotch. After beer and burning a coupla cd's. Good? yup. Signed Hugh Betcha |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 163 Registered: May-06 | /\ |..| |..|_____ |....(_)__) |...(_)___) |....(_)__) \.....(_)_) |......./ |......| |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4075 Registered: Dec-04 | couldn't agree more... |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 827 Registered: Nov-05 | Thanx for the heads up on the sound card Nuck, I'll keep the info for possible future needs. Meanwhile, don't get drunk. Naw! Do get drunk. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4078 Registered: Dec-04 | The Aussie green flag. Right then, I shall proceed as prescribed. Please take any further posts with a grain of salt...and lime...and tequila. Best to all, I'm gonna spin some old discs and maybe beat the drums! Booya! |
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Gold Member Username: John_aLondonU.K. Post Number: 4519 Registered: Dec-03 | Happy birthday, Nuck! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4096 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, folks! I ripped a disc(Clapton Unplugged) to c:, then to cdr in lossless, once with Windows(wma) and once with the new format(no extension). With el cheapo cdr's I played both back on both the transDAC and the Rotel. Both played, no problem. I found NO, repeat, NO difference from the source. This is with Nuck gear and Nuck ears, but the reproduction was spot on. I love this hobby when it works so well! |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 164 Registered: May-06 | Just what you had hoped for. I will get to that set up, analog RCA out of pre-amp unlike you digital run, to the PC and find out if I can get the vinyl sound on CD / DVD. Thanks for keeping us updated. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4103 Registered: Dec-04 | Mike that card set-up has in's and out's, guitar and every mix you might want. |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 166 Registered: May-06 | Might have to have a path; Creative Labs Card 500 Gb External Drive Mixing Board Microphone (NOT!!!) |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 167 Registered: May-06 | Last note on this topic as it is off topic. But it would be pretty neat one day to get good enough with a guitar and 1) overlay some music with my tracks and 2) have some friends come over just to jam and have each one leave with their own CD. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4106 Registered: Dec-04 | As much as anyone can claim a thread, I suppose I have this one. Let it wander, I like to see everyone contribute. Let it roll...down the highway...letit roll...down the highway, yeah yeah yeah |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 273 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Nuck, this is surely your thread. Been very quiet on my side... work plus other distractions.... My system has been evolving, but things have stabilised now. I bought a pre-loved Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista integrated amp, and now the Dyn's finally have the level of control needed to take them in hand. I am normally very suspicious of Mr Michaelson, and all his hype, but I must concede that the Nu-Vista, Tri-vista, and Mu-Vista series are good amps. (Tri-vista and Mu-vista are made up names by Musical Fidelity.) The amp has Raytheon 5703WB tubes in its pre-amplifier. It has a very liquid sound, and plenty of SS grunt from its power stage. But finally I am happy, its time to buy more CD's. My Linn Sondek is probably consigned to the history books, killed by extravagant spending on exotic mountain bike parts (SRAM X-0), and the Dyn's and the Tri-Vista. Footnote: my Sony XA-5ES is due to go under the knife soon, for Bybee quantum purification filters, and some upgraded regualtors in the audio baord and the transport. Hope all goes well in the GWN. cheers Rav |
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Silver Member Username: Mike3Lewisville, Tx USA Post Number: 196 Registered: May-06 | what no phono stage for the pre-amp? |
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Silver Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 274 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi Mike, the tr-vista does have an on-board phono stage, but I am not so excited with my LP12 and it's rather ho-hum Akito tonearm. I am not sure when, if ever, I will have any cash for any work/upgrades on the Linn. I envisage it will remain in its box for a long long time. But I am certainly enjoying CD's from the modded Sony unit. cheers Rav |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1684 Registered: Sep-04 | Rav, You should connect it up and give it a whirl - you might be pleasantly surprised... Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4301 Registered: Dec-04 | revisited. I am considering a new run of speaker wire and likr the layout of this one... http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ffrc_e.html any thoughts? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1707 Registered: Sep-04 | Nuck I only made it halfway down before giving up on the drivel in that article... I appreciate where he's coming from on the solid core issue. Solid core can provide a very well defined bass but I tend to find it a bit limited treble-wise. But his idea of using CAT-5 is absolutely incorrect. CAT5 is designed for low level low current signal transmission. It is exactly the wrong thing to use for speaker cables which can carry many amps. His argument that multi-stranded twisted cable being poison is also incorrect. Theoretically the best way to design a cable for low inductance is to do just that, preferably such that the strands cross at 90 degrees to lower noise. This is difficult to do with an individual insulator between the strands since the force required to twist the strands is usually more than the insulator can cope with at that size. You should be talking to your dealer about sympathetic speaker cables to use with your Classe'. They will be the best source of knowledge on this issue since they have so much experience building Classe' systems. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4419 Registered: Dec-04 | Frank, thank-you for adding to the issue. Agreed that the application here may not be ideal. My impetus for trying this out is twofold. Firstly, this is a cheap method of obtaining a supposedly 'good' set of cables, and I will make them look very nice. Secondly, they will be so attractive and inexpensive that I can sell them off to my Onkyo friend if they are poor sounding(divulging cost and source, of course). The odd times that I am home(like today) I find my hands wanting to do something with the kit, this seems harmless enough. Thanks again. I will try to cross the Maplin #'s to something local, not so sure about the plugs, though... |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1713 Registered: Sep-04 | Hmmm, looking back at my note I really need to start reigning in my temper, or go back to the happy pills, or get a better paid job... You're welcome Nuck. By the way, feel free to have some fun. The solid core suggestion is probably the most likely to stay a while in the system thanks to the usually clean bass. Alternatively you could use cooker mains supply wire (you know, the 36 amp stuff). The problem there is that it's very low quality copper so the signal suffers again. Regards, Frank. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 4451 Registered: Dec-04 | Thanks, Frank. That is you in a big huff? Huh. Even in a hyper state, your posts are well thought out and polite. Kick Nuck buttt, man! The 10g solids are possible, but too harsh for my desires, I am afraid. I was able to cross the Maplin to a Beldin cat5ce, and a cat6 as well. When I have a chance, I will track the stuff down and make some cables, all in harmless entertainment. But now I must pack for Indianapolis. C'mon baby, do the twist... |
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