I'm looking to build a 2.0 system for 70% music, 25% TV and 5% movies. Room is approx. 14' x 12' and is open to a kitchen area. Speakers would have to be bookshelf or smaller (high WAF), currently budgeting about $1000[Cdn] for receiver and two speakers but of course the less money spent the better.
For receivers I was looking at the H/K 3380 (I can get this for $358[Cdn] and for speakers the Epos ELS3 $500[Cdn MSRP]. I'm in Canada, so Paradigm is reasonably priced (eg. Titan is $250/pair, mini-monitors are $400/pair). The back of the speakers would be relatively close to a wall (less than 6"), does this mean I should or shouldn't get something back-ported? Would there be much difference between the Titan and ELS3 with this particular receiver? Should I spend more on the receiver than the speakers?
On your question of the proximity to the wall, this depends somewhat on the speakers in question. For example, Totem Mites or Dreamcatchers (really dinky) work well near a wall. You should put Totem on your list anyway as they're very well priced since they're Canadian.
EPOS make very good speakers but I think they might be beaten by the Canadian offerings since they're a lot more expensive there than here.
If music is your priority, I would be looking at something from NAD as a priority. NAD make very musical amplifiers and CD players. The NAD C320BEE has been a favourite for a couple of years now. However, it is just now being replaced by a the C325BEE which looks to be very interesting indeed.
Musically, a dedicated CD player will usually beat a DVD player relatively easily. If you can budget for a separate CD player, then this would be good, although I appreciate that the WAF issue may put the kaibosh on you having two disc players...
For good looking satellite speakers you may want to look at Anthony Gallo's or Orb or if your budget doesn't allow them, take a look at the Aperion satellites.
Thanks for the advice. I will check into the Totem speakers, I believe a local dealer also carries NAD. According to the Totem Acoustics website, the Dreamcatcher can be as close as 6" from a back wall and with the size and available cherry finish it scores high in the WAF. I'm quite suprised they're rated down to 57 Hz.
The wife has already vetoed the H/K receiver, says it's too big and ugly, can't say I disagree too much either... I should have mentioned that a tuner was a requirement so I guess I should be looking for the NAD C720BEE or would a separate tuner (if I can find one for $100 or so) work just as well from a usability point of view? If I go the route of a separate tuner, then I can get a Cambridge Audio 640A V1 for $500[Cdn] since they have been discounted to make way for the V2 models, any idea if this work okay with the 4ohm Totem Dreamcatchers?
You guessed right on the CD player, it's not in the cards right now, so I would have an existing DVD player as the source for CD music.
Stof,
I haven't heard of those speakers but will try to see if a local dealer carries them. I'm reluctant to order the Aperion's without hearing them first and being in Canada I wouldn't get the full shipping cost refunded if I didn't like them .
The Anthony Gallos and Orbs, in common with most speakers of their ilk, need a separate subwoofer which may not go down so well with SWMBO.
Totems always sound a lot bigger than they look. It's partly due to the method of manufacture. Each panel locks with its neighbour, almost like dovetailed joins. The cabinets are immensely strong therefore.
If memory serves, I've run Dreamcatchers with a C320BEE before (the 320 is the same as a 720 except it hasn't got the tuner) with no problems. That said, a more powerful amplifier never goes amiss...
A separate tuner allows you to choose any amp you like. It's a more expensive solution of course, but it should yield better results overall.
It's really quite rare to get a DVD player that really plays music well. Unfortunately the ones that make a reasonable fist of it aren't cheap. Keep saving those sheckels for a good CD player...
It turns out the Totem Dreamcatchers are actually more expensive here ($600+ depending on the finish) than the Epos ELS3 ($500). Another set of speakers I was considering in the $500 price range was the Monitor Audio Bronze B-2. Unfortunately the dealer carrying the Epos line doesn't carry NAD or CA.
A separate CD player is not in the near future, what I'd really like is something like the Cambridge Audio 640H music server...apparently it has the CD player from the 640C built-in but I'm sure it's not cheap.
We purchased a NAD C720BEE some months ago, paired with Kef iQ9's in our main room and iQ3's in our front room. Simply Awesome!
Very pleased with the sound - we listen to an eclectic mix of rock, jazz, blues, and classical stuff. More jazz and blues these days than anything else.
These Kef's rate very highly indeed in Europe, and should fit your budget. The iQ3's are the best bookshelf for the money to my ears.
For our stereo receiver, we demoed NAD, Rotel, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, Musical Fidelity, and Music Hall. The NAD easily offered the best sound for the money, sometimes besting and always rivaling amps with considerably higher price tags and greater pedigree.
As for the speakers, we demoed Paradigm, Vienna, Definitive, Infinity, Era, Boston Acoustics, B+W, and Kef. Again, the Kef's stood out as offering the best sound value, hands down.
Here in the UK, Dreamcatchers cost £500 to the EPOS ELS3 £200! That's how good a deal you'd get with them. Don't get me wrong - EPOS speakers are very good indeed, but I think you'd find that the Dreamcatchers are far more capable than the ELS3s if you listened to them. It's the distribution costs that you're paying for with the EPOS speakers.
The Kef iQ3's are a bit too big (as is the iQ1), particuarly the depth at 12"+, for my particular application.
Frank,
Interesting about the Totem vs Epos pricing. I guess you're paying a heavy price for Totem distribution costs over there
Through this forum and other research I now have a good half-dozen bookshelves/mini-monitor style speakers vying for the "'best bookshelf for $500" title. Clearly, it's time for me to audition a few speakers I'll try to overcome any price-based bias I probably have.
However, the opinion on the NAD C320BEE/C720BEE seems consistently good and to a lesser degree the Cambridge Audio 640A.
If all goes well I should find some time this week to audition the NAD C720BEE/Totem Dreamcatcher combo. Initally I was planning on buying the speakers new and the amp used (should be about 1/2 price), however the new price for the C720BEE is about 10% less than the C372 (prices are a bit odd in Canada), should I just go for the C372 if I do end up buying new and get a $100 eBay tuner later? BTW, a new C720BEE would come in around the same price as an Outlaw RR2150, any opinion if I should go that route? Being in Canada, the 30 day Outlaw tryout is still quite expensive due to shipping, customs etc.
If you don't need the features of the 720BEE, the 372 should be a no-brainer. Sound quality wise, it's a lot better in every way. The difference isn't just power. Even at equal volumes, everything the 720BEE does, the 372 does significantly better.
The only feature of the 720BEE I need is a tuner. However, I was thinking I could always pick up a used one relatively cheap --- or I may even go for satellite radio instead.
If I were in your shoes, that would be my plan of attack. I own a 320BEE, which for all intents and purposes is a 720BEE without a tuner and a few extra features. Side by side, their is a huge difference between the 320BEE and 372. If I could have afforded the 372 when I was buying, it would be in my house right now whithout any reservations.
Still haven't gotten out there for an audition, had a nagging cold for the past while so the ears are a bit clogged up. However, our old Sony 5-disk DVD/CD changer that I was planning on using with this system seems to be on its' last legs. SWMBO doesn't want another changer either, so any advice on a single-disk DVD/CD player that's good for CDs? DVD-A or SACD would be nice, but not a requirement. I'm looking in the $300 price range but could stretch the budget if it's really worth it. I've been thinking either the NAD T514 or Cambridge Audio 540R.
Definitely go for the 372 if you can. The Dreamcatchers love power. There's not many DVD players that play music well. The Denon DVD1920's not bad I guess, although I'm not convinced it's that good. Better to get yourself an NAD C521BEE CD player and a cheap DVD player for movies in my view, but prices are always a mystery to me on your side of the pond so I could be barking up the wrong tree...
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