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New member Username: Novice2006Post Number: 1 Registered: May-06 | I would like some guidance on whether to purchase a Denon 4306 or Pioneer Elite VSX 72/74 for a new home audio system. I intend to use the system mostly for watching TV/DVD and some audio. The components are: Front: Vienna Acoustics (Berg) pair Rear: Vienna Acoustics (Berg) pair Center: Vienna Acoustics (Webern) Sub: Def Tech (Super Cube III) Panel: Samsung (HL-S5679W) Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX 72 (?) Receiver: Pioneer Elite VSX 74 (?) Receiver: Denon 4306 (?) I am a novice and not able to aptly determine the impact, if any, of the on-paper specifications of the potential receivers. I am concerned that I may not consider certain factors that may appreciably impact the sound quality or functionality of this system. Thanks in advance. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3984 Registered: Mar-05 | 1. Your usage: what % music? 2. What size room? 3. Have you actually bought the speakers and sub yet, or just plan to? 4. If "no" to #3, max total budget? |
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New member Username: Novice2006Post Number: 2 Registered: May-06 | (1) 10% music (2) 17 feet x 12 feet (3) Selected, but not yet purchased (4) Audio Equipment Only: $4,000 - $4,500 Thanks for your input. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3987 Registered: Mar-05 | well, I know those VA speakers are very nice looking no question, but do you REALLY want to spend that much $$$ for a 90% HT system in a medium-sized room, or did someone convince you that such a budget was necessary for your satisfaction? If you're set on those speakers and that budget, I'll say no more but I just want to make sure you understand that $4-4.5k is not really NECESSARY for your application and room---you could do as well if not better for half as much money with different speakers and receivers if you shop wisely. In any case I definitely would recommend a different subwoofer, from Internet-direct makers Hsu or SVS. |
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New member Username: Novice2006Post Number: 3 Registered: May-06 | Thanks. If I keep the same equipment, do you have any thoughts on which receiver I should purchase? Why do you suggest a different sub? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3990 Registered: Mar-05 | All of those receivers you listed are overkill for your room and application, but I suppose the 4306 will have a longer feature list whereas the PE receivers might offer a little better music SQ which you don't really need since you do 90% DVD/TV. If you're looking at spending around $700 for the sub I'd get the Hsu VTF-3 or (if you want the lowest and loudest bass for your movies) the SVS PB12nsd/v: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-isdv.cfm A lot bigger than the DefTech but worth the difference if you really want a wall-shaking HT experience. |
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New member Username: Novice2006Post Number: 4 Registered: May-06 | Thanks. Notwithstanding the budget, what would you recommend that would be better at the same or lower price. Why do you think that this system is overkill? I have listened to a bunch (e.g., monitor audio, jtm) and thought that this sounded the best. I currently have a Bang & Olufsen system in another room and have become accustomed to that sound quality. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3992 Registered: Mar-05 | well, Bang & Olufson is simply a higher end version of Bose: a lifestyle product---you pay through the nose for cool looks and sleek compact form factor while actual sound quality/performance is mediocre for the price. I have not heard the VA speakers so maybe they are earthshakingly fantastic speakers for all I know, but the reason I would call what you're considering to be gross overkill is the fact that only 10% of your usage is music. TV watching (news, sports, sitcoms, reality shows, etc.) is 90% dialogue, which means all you need is a good center channel speaker that is adequately powered by a decent receiver/amp. DVD watching depends on your tastes---if you are mainly into dramas, comedies, foreign, alternative or cult movies then again you're mostly listening to dialogue. If you watch a lot of big budget action/thriller movies then you'll want to have adequately powered surround speakers and a nice beefy subwoofer for all the explosions, rumbles, etc. In either case, during DVD/TV use I would estimate that a good 80-90% of your attention is fixed on what's happening onscreen unlike with music listening where you have no distractions which allows a lot of the subtle refinements of higher dollar gear to be noticed. With DVD/TV use all you simply need is sufficient detail, clarity, power and a decent/natural presentation of human voices. This can be had very cheaply these days, especially with digital switching receivers (the Panasonic XR series is the classic example) and Internet-direct manufacturers of speakers and subwoofers. For 1/3 of your present budget I could probably easily put together a system that would do the same job for your 90% HT/dvd usage; for 1/2 of your budget I could probably assemble one that would surpass it for that 10% of music listening as well. But I'll be honest, either of my systems would probably lose in the visual "wow" factor , pride of ownership and social prestige departments of having more expensive (and expensive-LOOKING) gear in your living room. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 953 Registered: Oct-04 | "TV watching (news, sports, sitcoms, reality shows, etc.) is 90% dialogue" What sports are you watching? Lawn Bowling? Curling? Pool? A good football, basketball, hockey, and sometimes baseball game makes full use of a 5.1 set-up. Shows such as Prison Break and 24 would be incomprable in a 1 ch presentation like you suggest is adequate vs. 5.1. You admit to only watching Documentary type TV and movies, you're letting your personal tastes cloud your judgement. There's a lot more out there than watching low tiered cable on a 20" tv these days. AND, B&O, while you are right about focusing largely on esthetics, still has a high level of sound quality. Camparing the esthetic/SQ ratio to Bose is quite unfair. The speakers may not be for you or I, but I suspect you are making an unqualified review of them based on your personal view of that type of product. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3996 Registered: Mar-05 | > A good football, basketball, hockey, and sometimes baseball game makes full use of a 5.1 set-up. yeah but so what? What does it add to the experience? Not much, IMO. So you can hear the crowd cheering from all *around* you instead of just in front of you...big f*cking deal, get a life! > Shows such as Prison Break and 24 would be incomprable in a 1 ch presentation like you suggest is adequate vs. 5.1. They're lousy enough in stereo, LOL. Why increase one's misery? And where did I suggest a 1-channel presentation? What have you been putting in your coffee Kano? Or maybe you didn't have any, that's why you can't read straight. lol As for B&O I have heard them in person and they were a joke for the price. Yes better than Bose but that's hardly a compliment. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 954 Registered: Oct-04 | "And where did I suggest a 1-channel presentation? What have you been putting in your coffee Kano? Or maybe you didn't have any, that's why you can't read straight." "TV watching (news, sports, sitcoms, reality shows, etc.) is 90% dialogue, which means all you need is a good center channel speaker that is adequately powered by a decent receiver/amp. " |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4001 Registered: Mar-05 | oh ok, didn't expect you to take that literally. I meant that the center channel is the most important speaker for the OP's uses, obviously he is going to need L/R mains too since he does do 10% music. |
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New member Username: Novice2006Post Number: 5 Registered: May-06 | Edster922, I elected to post on this forum with the hopes of receiving some constructive advice for my dilemma about the best receiver for my new home theater. But you have merely put down my Bang & Olufsen system and suggested that my planned purchase is based on "social prestige." Comparing B&O to a Bose Lifestyle System is just plain stupid and to suggest that a B&O system produces only mediocre sound is ridiculous. It appears that you simply have some strong feelings against certain high-end named brands that has clouded your judgment. Currently, I have listened to several speakers at varying price points: Monitor Audio, NHT, JM Labs, Bose, and the Vienna Acoustics. The Vienna Acoustics by far presented the clearest and most rich sound. The Monitor Audios were a bit bright and the JM Labs lost a little in the higher range such as the sounds of the small rocks falling in the beginning of Toy Story 2. While it is true that certain named brands will carry with them an extra cost for the cache, it does not follow that they somehow have mediocre or poor sound quality. I also recognize the importance of the center channel and have selected the larger Webern for that reason. My initial question remains: As between the Pioneer Elite VSX 72/74 and the Denon 4306, which one would anyone recommend? Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 957 Registered: Oct-04 | Both are excellent units with enough power to drive the speakers you have listed. It purely comes down to personal preference. I like the presentation of the Pioneer Elite units, with their full low end, the warm rich sound they offer really appeals to me. I find the Denon sound as very analytical, while very accurate and neutral, I prefer more energy. If you can afford it, the P.E 72Txi is a hard receiver to beat. My personal favorite amplification is the Outlaw 990 with 5 monoblocks for $2220. Both the receivers above are loaded with features and video connectivity most are unlikely to take full advantage of. The Outlaw seperates will offer just as high or higher level of sound quality without all the hoop-la. Just another suggestion. http://www.outlawaudio.com |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 4004 Registered: Mar-05 | JDS, > I elected to post on this forum with the hopes of receiving some constructive advice for my dilemma about the best receiver for my new home theater. But you have merely put down my Bang & Olufsen system Sorry that you had to take that so personally. I was simply expressing my opinion regarding B&O as a whole, regardless of who around here actually owns their gear. You asked my opinion of why I thought your proposed system was overkill, and I told you. If you plan on using Internet forums like this on a regular basis, I think you will find yourself quickly developing thicker skin because you are bound to run up against no shortage of strongly divergent opinions, many of them far less civil than I have been. In any case, I would never say that "B&O are junk" like many people say of Bose (including myself at times) but simply that you can get equal or better sound quality for considerably less money, if you are willing to live without the B&O cosmetics. That to me is not a "put down" but simply an opinon derived from having heard much gear that's considerably cheaper than B&O yet sounded equal and in many cases better. Of course that opinion was formed with MY ears, other people's ears might well differ. > and suggested that my planned purchase is based on "social prestige." No, I did not say that YOU in particular are being motivated by "social prestige"---after all, you and I being anonymous cyberposters don't know each other from Adam. This is what I wrote: "But I'll be honest, either of my systems would probably lose in the visual "wow" factor , pride of ownership and social prestige departments of having more expensive (and expensive-LOOKING) gear in your living room." That "your" is an abstract/speculative pronoun --- perhaps I should have said "ONE'S living room" instead to avoid this confusion. I have no idea what your motives are in choosing what gear you already own, nor in considering the gear that you have posted questions about here...nor do I wish to speculate on them. All I am saying is that IF one places actual sound quality above aesthetics and social prestige as deciding factors in this hobby, one can easily do as good and/or better for considerably less money in a 90% HT usage situation. Between the PE and Denon you originally asked about, I would have to agree with Kano's post above, though I would add that it largely depends on the sound characteristics of the speakers you choose. If you go with those VA speakers and they are a bit on the "bright" side, the PE would definitely be a better choice to balance that out, and conversely if those are "warm" speakers then the Denon would be the better choice. However since you're doing 90% HT a bit of "brightness" is not necessarily a bad thing so the Denon is probably the better choice esp. if it has more of the features you want. |
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New member Username: Novice2006Post Number: 6 Registered: May-06 | Thanks for your help. |
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Bronze Member Username: DarthThe woodlands Post Number: 62 Registered: Aug-05 | JDS, As much as I like the Elite line I would suggest that before you make such an investment verify that the receiver of your preference will be able handle the impedance of your speakers (4ohms). I don't think either the P.E. or the Denon would but I could be wrong. Just I thought |
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New member Username: Novice2006Post Number: 7 Registered: May-06 | Thank you. It has been recommended due to my room configuration that I use the Denon 4306 with Bay Audio speakers (i.e., BeBop, Satellite, Cube). I would appreciate any information about Bay Audio and that advice. |