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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 18 Registered: May-06 | Hello to all. My brother was thinking about buying some JBL E100s (found a good price on the net). I told him to hold off until I brought this up with the experts at the ecoustics forum. This is an unusual request because he plans on upgrading his receiver, but unfortunately won't be able to do this for a year or two (needs bunk-beds and new carpet). He's presently using a Sony STR V444-ES, but wants to get a big HK down the road. He recently hooked up his Denon 3200, but didn't notice much difference, so he's thinking his speakers are the weak link. He has a pretty big and oddly shaped room with hardwood floors, about 35x18, and whats more, the back of the room, away from the TV and front speakers, opens up to form another sitting area or L. He realizes he needs to upgrade much of his system, including the center and surrounds, but wants to start with the fronts. He does have a sub and is happy with it. I'd say it's an even split between HT and music. Wants a nice full sound without haveing to blare it. We know he's going to have to go listen to speakers himself let his ears decide, but were wondering if some of you could point us in the right direction. Budget is between $500 and $1000. I'm sure I left out some pertinent info. Please let me know what else I can provide. Thank you for all your replys. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2466 Registered: Dec-04 | Check with Edster922. |
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Gold Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 1107 Registered: Feb-05 | I would also look into the used market as well. |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 19 Registered: May-06 | Thanks, I was actually looking for some brand/product reccomendations. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 944 Registered: Oct-04 | Does he want floorstanders or bookshelfs for the fronts? |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 20 Registered: May-06 | I knew I'd leave something out. Floorstanders. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 946 Registered: Oct-04 | Paradigm Monitor 7 Polk Rti8 These were the two I was deciding between, I went with the Polks largely because of the deal I got on them, but they are excellent speakers. |
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Bronze Member Username: JethroLansing, Mi Post Number: 87 Registered: Jan-06 | check out paradigm. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2472 Registered: Dec-04 | Big room, yeah floorstanders. Is the guy gonna really purchase for now, or how soon might new speakers influance the move to a new receiver? Athena might be a good choice for the current setup, but not advisable with a big H/K. But money saved now, looking 2-3 years down the road. After beds and carpet, like. |
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Bronze Member Username: Divin11112000Michigan Post Number: 77 Registered: Dec-04 | I would suggest Klipsch, but with a hardwood floor and no carpet they would probably come off real bright. If you had some carpet in the room Klipsch are pretty forward and should fill the room pretty easily. They also don't need much power to get them to loud volumes. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1270 Registered: May-05 | Their certainly isn't a shortage of very good $1000 floorstanders on the market. Just about every manufacturer makes one near the price point. It's one of the most competitive areas right now. Ask 100 people which is the best, and you'll get just as many different answers. My personal favorite is the PSB Image T55 (I own it). Paradigm, B&W, KEF, Klipsch, Jamo, DefTech, and so on all make them. Go out and listen. |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 24 Registered: May-06 | Yes, that is what makes this tricky, the changing out of the receivers. He was going to get a new AVR, but after his testing his two receivers, again he feels the speakers are his weak link. Another reason he's waiting on the AVR has to do with his TV. He's got a nice Mistubishi HD, but it only has component inputs, no HDMI or DVI (I have the same problem). Eventually he wants to get HD-DVD and we're assuming that those players, much like the upscaling DVD players, are going to be HDMI only. A couple days ago I spoke with a tech at Harman Kardon and he told me that their two upcoming upper-end AVRs are going to allow HDMI input with component output while retaining HD quality (no change in bandwith is what he said), though he did say the specs may change before the units come out, sometime in the next 6 weeks. In fact, he said they had a meeting about it earlier that day. My brothers alway wanted an HK, therefore he's pegged one of these two units, AVR745 or 645, as his next unit once the prices come down abit (745 is listed $3400 srmp @ the HK site, no info on the 645). To state a difficult problem simply, he's looking for speakers that will sound good thru his Sony, but excellent with his upcoming HK. Hey, that's why I'm coming to you guys. The carpet he's getting is for other parts of the house. He does have a couple of big rugs in the listening room if that helps. I've read several posts that seem to indicate Paradigms may be too warm a speaker for an HK, though this may make them perfect for the Sony. I found a high end store that sells both Klipsh and Mirage. Now I'm looking for one that sells Athena and Cantons. Of course, if we do find a store that sells both HK and Paradigm, we'll give a listen. Unfortunately, the only store I have found that sells Paradigms, doesn't deal in HKs. Hey, my Paradigm center sounds great with my HK, but that may be a completely different ballgame. Jan, you live in Dallas, do you know of anyone that sells these brands locally? Nuck, Why do you feel the Athenas aren't a good match for a big HK? I ask this because I found, what I think to be, a good deal on the AS F2.2s for $195 a piece. Thanks for all your help guys. Hopefully, monday we'll be hittin' the shops. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2487 Registered: Dec-04 | gman, my opion of the Athena line is from site info only. I have neither owned nor heard them myself. Keep in mind thet a lot of ideas are from friendly referrals only. The Athena's are not up to high power(with good SQ), that I have seen. Besides, a good H/K would enjoy maybe PSb B25 stander. Maybe add to the mix? |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 25 Registered: May-06 | And great friendly referrals they are indeed. I appreciate all the help. If any any of you guys need a cooking tip or recipe, feel free to ask. I'll be more than happy to help out any way I can. |
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Silver Member Username: PraetorianCanada Post Number: 169 Registered: Dec-05 | I'll never truly understand the drive to route video through a receiver, but what do I know... Anywho, I auditioned the supposed upscaling receivers (and I mean upscaling, not converting other inputs into component), and they don't really seem to do much. On the other hand, upscaling DVD players seem to make a huge impact via digital connection (they don't work on commercial product via component for legal reasons). So, waiting for a 3.5k AVR to come down in price (which will only take 12 months mind you) might be waiting for nothing more than a bigger number on your model type. I have compared the HK AVR 630 and 635 and other than amp power, they pretty much sound the same, and while its getting to the point where you can get them for the same price if you look hard enough if one would have waited a year for the 635 to come down in price vice buying a 630, they wasted a year. Now, having said all that, as far as combo receivers go (decoder/amp/tuner al in one box) HK's AVR series is pretty fricking amazing and I have owned yammie, sony and HK. Further, despite being able to buy them at a "big box" store, Polks mate very well with HK. And since he has a sub already RTi 8s are a good match. |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 26 Registered: May-06 | In fact, I'll give ya one right now. If you want to make a great Tomato sauce. Start with an anchovy. In a cast iron pot, heat 2 Tablespoons of good olive oil over medium heat. Add to this one or two anchovies, or a teaspoon of anchovy paste. Saute for about a minute or until the anchovy melts down and fuses with the oil. Add 3 or 4 finely chopped cloves of garlic, saute 1 minute, DON'T LET IT BURN. Lower the heat a little and add one small can of tomato paste. Stir CONSTANTLY with a wooden spoon, until the paste is a nice rich, reddish brown (you may need to add a little more olive oil during this process). This will take about 20-30 minutes. DON'T LET IT BURN. To this add 1 cup of good, hearty red wine. Allow to simmer about 10 minutes. This allows the alchohol to escape. Next, add one large can of tomato puree and one large can of chopped tomatoes. If it seems to thick, add a little water. Add one Bay leaf, about 1-1/2 teaspoons of dried Basil and a teaspoon of sugar. Add a little salt and pepper. If you like, you can also add 1 medium chopped onion and one chopped Bell pepper. If you really want to do it right, saute the onion and Bell pepper in a seperate pan with some olive oil before adding. Cover with lid slightly ajar and let simmer over low heat for an hour or three, stirring occasionally. If you want to let it simmer a good long time, just watch it, as you may need to add some water if it gets to thick. Taste to adjust for salt and pepper. Serve over your favorite pasta and a link or two of good Italian sausage that has been browned in olive oil and finished in the oven. If your going to top with Parmesan, don't you dare use that stuff that comes in a green can. Buy a brick of the real thing. Pour a glass, or two if your not eating alone, of the same wine. Finally, be sure to turn on your favorite dining music. That's it. Bon Appetite! |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 27 Registered: May-06 | Well, we're not concerned with upscaling. Its the true HD-DVD technology that we're afraid of getting locked out of. I say we because I have the same problem. We don't have HDMI or DVI inputs on our HD TVs. If the new HD-DVD players only allow HD quality thru HDMI, this may be a work around. In other words, as long as their is no loss in quality running thru the receiver, we could plug an HD-DVD player into the receiver via HDMI and then route it to the TV via component. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2498 Registered: Dec-04 | Yup, gman, HDMI is not necesary, nor important. That recipe, on the other hand, might be. I could offer Mrs.Nuck's recipe, but then she would have to kill me.(yelp!). Yours looks super. |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 28 Registered: May-06 | Thanks, Nuck The anchovy and browning of the paste trick goes goes all the way back to my Sicilian Great Grandmother, who probably learned it from her mother and so on.... As for as the HDMI, Hollywood is sure trying to make it neccasary and important. We were both livid when we realized the situation. I realize that there is a pirating problem, but cutting out thousands of consumers isn't the answer. Don't forget, Gooooooooood wine. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2502 Registered: Dec-04 | Bella, in Scottish,Chefboy! Outlaw using DVi is a stroke of 'derriere suplimantation'". DVi can be modified quite easily. Also see here... https://www.ecoustics.com/cgi-bin/bbs/show.pl?tpc=1&post=693756#POST693756 Easy HDMI/DVi Nice speakers as well. And Eric is cool. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2503 Registered: Dec-04 | Might I suggest a thread for audio dinners? Perhaps a thread comprised of fine dining and fine listening combined? And fine wine and spirits as well? Hmmm? |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 29 Registered: May-06 | What category do we put it under? Call me old fashioned, but I like to listen to Frank, Deano or a little opera while eating Italian. For French food, I break out the classical. Of course, I'm from New Orleans, so I find Louis goes very well with Cajun food. |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 30 Registered: May-06 | And yes, I checked out Eric and his Hyperion's shortly after he posted it. They look sweet!!!! I've already told my brother about them, but he wants something he can hear before puchasing. Personally, I'd give them a shot, especially since you'd only have to pay shipping one way if they didn't work for ya. I'd bet they would work out just fine though. |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 31 Registered: May-06 | Nuck, When you say DVI can be modified easily and easy HDMI/DVI, I'm sorry, I'm not following you. I have no need for it now. My cable box delivers HD to my TV via component cables. But, if HD-DVD players only deliver HD via HDMI/DVI, aren't I left out, unless I have some work around, such as an AVR that will convert one of the two to component. Or are you saying that their is some conversion method I'm unaware of. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 947 Registered: Oct-04 | GMan - Bad news ahead. The entire reason of having HD content limited to HDMI or DVI alone has absolutely nothing to do with picture quality and everything to do with anti-piracy. Unfortunately if all the movie industry's wishes are implemented no product will be able to output HD through component. HK's '45 series clearly says the "Faroudja video processing flawlessly upscales all incoming video to 720p or 1080i high definition and outputs it through an HDMI jack." The guy on the phone must be confused, either everything will output HD through component or nothing will. A receiver that inputs HDMI and outputs component will not be HDCP complient and therefore will not transmit HDCP encoded video from HD-DVD or Blu-ray. I hope I'm wrong and these devices will exist, but I'm sure if that's the case there will be stand-alone convertors that will convert HDMI to component, I just don't see it happening. |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 32 Registered: May-06 | Thanks Kano, but I hope your wrong too. Yes, I had read that at the site. That's why I had called them back. I had called earlier asking about the 7300 conversion. He said the 7300 only upscaled to 420p. This tech told me I had to wait for the 745 to get 1080i. Then I read the description on the site, saw what you stated and called back. Got a different tech. The second tech said they had a meeting that day about the subject and were told to tell customers that the new units would convert HDMI to component. Of course he also said that this could change before the unit is released 4 to 6 weeks from now. I guess we won't know for sure until mid-June or July. If it's illegal to put the a convertor in an AVR, wouldn't it be illegal to make a stand alone convertor. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't be available. Something better be. |
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Bronze Member Username: GmanchefboyDallas, TX Post Number: 33 Registered: May-06 | By the way, what's the point of upscaling to 420p? A. Isn't that exactly what a $60 progressive scan gives you anyway. B. I thought almost all HD TVs had built in line-doublers that essentially do just that. I don't even have a PS DVD player since I know my TV has a line doubler and am not seeing the artifacts that the PS is supposed to elimate (this could be because my TV is only 34 inches or maybe my eyes are going). I probably will get one soon, but that decision will be based more on upgrading my SQ. Tell you truth though, I'm happy with what I'm getting now. Ignorance is bliss. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 948 Registered: Oct-04 | "told to tell customers that the new units would convert HDMI to component." Question is from what sources... Converting HDMI output from a PC may work, while from HD-DVD/Blu-Ray may not. The details are still not confirmed. "By the way, what's the point of upscaling to 420p? A. Isn't that exactly what a $60 progressive scan gives you anyway." Useless if your display has a native resolution, since it will just be double scaling for a worse image. Useful for watching 480i sources such as cable TV at 480p. "B. I thought almost all HD TVs had built in line-doublers that essentially do just that. " When the AVR7300 first came out the video upconversion would be more useful, it's definitely a wasted feature on any of the current digital HD displays - LCD/LCOS/DLP. " If it's illegal to put the a convertor in an AVR, wouldn't it be illegal to make a stand alone convertor." Exactly my point, if a receiver can do it so can any other device, you're poised to spend $1500 extra for features that may prove to be accomplished at $200. It's hard enough picking a receiver for it's sound quality - start adding in video conversion, satellite radio quality, etc. etc. you're getting farther away from what really matters. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3968 Registered: Mar-05 | Gman, nice pasta sauce recipe, will have to try it sometime! Never heard of anchovies in a tomato sauce but hey I love anchovies on pizza so this will probably work just fine. Ask your brother if his Sony receiver has pre-outs...if they do, he might be able to just add an external 2-channel amp (or a pair of Outlaw monoblocks) to run a pair of the Athena F2.2s (assuming he likes the F2.2s when he hears them if he can find them locally). This would just hit his total budget of $1K...and if he decides to add Athenas all around, the C1.2 center and B1.2s are dirt cheap at audioadvisor.com |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1271 Registered: May-05 | Eddie - You never heard of anchovies in a tomato sauce? I thought this was relatively common knowledge. Most Italians I know use it in their homemade sauces. By the time the sauce is done, the anchovies are pretty much melted. Anchovies add the salt and a few other subtle flavors to the mix. Then again, I shouldn't say they, you really only use one unless you're serving a large party. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3969 Registered: Mar-05 | Well, I only rarely make my own pasta sauce from scratch---just too lazy. Used to when I was single though, it usually got me what I wanted, LOL. Won't do Ragu or Prego but I find Newman's Own to be pretty decent for a quick pasta fix, with a little added seasoning and some nice sausage thrown in. So what's a good brand of anchovies to buy, or are they all about the same? |
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New member Username: Daniel_canadaCanada Post Number: 5 Registered: May-06 | Ummmm, I'd buy a bigger amp, or receiver in your case. Go to a decent audio store, have a listen. Keep your current speakers. Hate the sound from a receiver/amp pused to it's limits. Bookshelf speakers powered by something in the 120+ wpc rage will go loud if needed and at the same time sound stress free. Most people seem to think to improve sound they need new, bigger speakers. When all they need is an amp that can power what they already own. Also source makes a difference. "Wants a nice full sound without haveing to blare it. " Yeah, get some power into the speakers he has now. I have a set of Mirage m-290 books at home that I used to be powered with my NAD 272 power amp (150wpc), and they sounded great and with lots of bass for a bookshelf. Those same speakers on a 25wpc receiver were good till you turned it up a little, and the bass was alot thiner on the little receiver. You brothers Sony recevier is lacking in the power department, I'm sure it's real power is in the 25/35 watt range. |