Lets start building!!

Russ Stanford New member Username: Orbling Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06	Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 05:57 GMT HI Guys. OK Ive read alot of posts, and, as a newbie to home theater I need some help. I must say, just to let you know how silly I am, my house is packed with every BOSE system out there. So, I want to build from scratch in a 2nd residence, which has the following to be considered. 20X30 room, concrete floors & ceiling, no way to wire rear speakers. what Im thinking judging from previous posts, is a Denon avr 2807 and a pair of Monitor or Paradigms? I know Outlaw gets alot of attention, but Ive never heard of them. I am hearing alot about making sure the speakers match well with the A/V Receiver, so please, any help? I mainly watch movies, and I love crisp sounding music. Once I can get these 2 items out of the way, I can work on everything else. Currently, I have a 37" plasma, and a BDI AVION 8539 to put it on top of. Price isnt really an issue, but I would prefer to stay away from outrageous high-end.
Berny Gold Member Username: Project6 Post Number: 7566 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 06:21 GMT Please don't write, "Price isn't really an issue". It invokes some of the most exhorbitant system recommendations that we can dream of and it always comes back as "whoah...that's too much". Let me put it this way...At what number will it become an issue? This is what I currently use so I will recommend it, I'm sure you will love it as much I do. Your taste will of course vary, specially if you prefer the in your face type of sound. This combo is a nicely detailed, but not bright at all. Outlaw Audio 990 5 Outlaw Audio mono blocks Sonus Faber Cremona all around and the Cremona Subwoofer
Hawk Silver Member Username: Hawk Highlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 811 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 09:17 GMT Russ: I appreciate what you want to do, but I have to challenge you that if you intend to step up, then step up, and don't limit yourself to a Denon receiver, which has absolutely no life to it and will represent little improvement over your Bose systems. This is especially true when you can get an Outlaw for the same amount of money as the Denon. The reason you haven't heard one is that Outlaw are sold direct from Outlaw's website and come with a 30 day in home trial. If you don't like it, you send it back for a full refund. Check it out at www.outlawaudio.com The reason you read alot about the Outlaw on this site is because it all to often gets over-looked because Outlaw does not have a dealer network to push it, so members here like to remind people it is around. Outlaw is also good about standing behind their products, as well--we like that, too. Now, why do I say what I did about the Denon? Well, like all of the mass market brands, Denon installs a wimpy power supply unable to do the job, and this in a receiver supposedly rated at 110 wpc. Guess what? Denon rates their power with the receiver only driving 2 channels into an 8 ohm short. This is hardly a real world rating, but all that is required by law. About a year ago, the predecessor unit from Denon was bench tested by a testing lab and it showed that when driving all 7 channels, the unit clipped at a mere 25 wpc! The big selling point for the Denon is that it has HDMI switching, but has anyone explained that the standards for HDMI have not been established and so they vary tremendously from manufacturer to manufacturer (and yes, many are incompatible)? In other words, it is all smoke and mirrors . . . Denon was one of three receivers rated at 100 wpc I heard in a double blind comparison which also included a 50 wpc NAD receiver, which cost about half that of the other three (Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha). The panel I participated in was unanimous that the one receiver that stood out as sounding great turned out to be the NAD. It sounded louder, was more detailed, and it had a richer, more full bodied sound. There are only five widely available receiver brands that produce honest power: Harman/Kardon, Marantz, NAD, Outlaw and Rotel. I would stay away from any other brand (unless you wanted to sink more than $2K into something like a B&K or MacIntosh--Man, I love a Mac!). Everyone else below $2K sell their receivers like mattresses--purely a commodity. The Outlaw is an honest 65 wpc x 7 receiver that will deliver the necessary current to drive almost any speakers. Speaking of speakers, both Monitor Audio and Paradigm are great speakers, but with your room (concrete ceiling and floors?), and even assuming the floor is carpeted, that room will be very lively. A bright speaker like Monitor Audio would be a mistake, IMO. As a rule of thumb, with a concrete ceiling, I would stay away from any speaker with a metal dome tweeter--it will have a hot top end that would be overly accentuated by a concrete ceiling which will be highly reflective. Instead, I would look at Paradigm and PSB, both of which are Canadian speaker companies that use the same theoretical data on speaker design drawn from the Canadian government. They will sound very close in sound--warm, and a bit laid back. An Outlaw would be a very good match for those speakers. An NAD, Rotel, or even a Marantz should also work well in your room with those speakers. I would also consider certain B&W or KEF speakers, as well. Again, I don't know what your budget might be, but the KEF XQ line of speakers would also make for a nice system with any of those receivers. BTW, assuming you have carpeting on your concrete floor, you will find that Monster Cable, among others, sells a high quality speaker wire that is flat (instead of double tubular) so it can run under carpets. Therefore, your assertion that you cannot get wiring to rear speakers did not account for this type of product. In fact, it was designed specifically for your situation. You can run it after the carpet is laid, but it is a whole lot easier to lay it down first, and then the pad and carpet. I have used this product and you cannot tell it is underfoot at all.
Russ Stanford New member Username: Orbling Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06	Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 22:59 GMT OK, So lets forget abount Denon then. Im willing to buy what the concensus will be, just because I can, and I dont know jack. In answer to the $ question, Im going fairly high-end, but I dont want high-end that I cant tell the difference. This apartment is on the 10th floor of an 11 floor buildimg, and its pretty quiet due to the concrete issue. I do have carpeting, massive windows and a concrete post 2/3rd in to the living room. So, for receivers, lets get a consensus of a model, and whatever else and I will purchase. same with the speakers. that will be a great start. Keep in mind, its going into a bdi cabinet, so I really dont want a heat issue. By the way, did I tell you guys how awesome it is that you are helping? Much props!
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 2240 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 01:29 GMT Small space, no heat? Rotel, hands down. Mid-hi price, highest quality.
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 2241 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 01:31 GMT the rsdx-02 is entry for Rotel, and offers everything for 5 channel, with a toslink.
Hawk Silver Member Username: Hawk Highlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 817 Registered: Dec-03	Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 03:20 GMT Russ: OK, sounds good. I now have a much better fix on your environment, but I will also draw the following conclusions: 1. You have a large room; 2. Price is not an object, but you don't intend to be silly about it; 3. You want a serious improvement in your sound system; and, 4. If I read you right, you want something to be proud of--looks may matter here. Therefore, I have spent some real time thinking about what you want in light of my conclusions and what products would make for a nice fit. Therefore, I would recommend a Rotel RSX-1057 receiver. This is a very nice 75 wpc receiver that is easily one of the most beautiful pieces of gear you will ever see, especially if you like the silver face (available in both silver and black). MSRP is about $1400--here is a link to more info about it: http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rsx1057.htm Now, there is a real bonus to this unit as it does have two HDMI inputs and one HDMI outputs, so you can get what you want. This is one of the few units that has the HDMI and yet imparts a truly high quality sound. Speakers are a little more problematic. You need a line of speakers with an 8 ohm impedence for the Rotel (like almost all receivers, a Rotel requires an 8 ohm minimum impedence load when driving five speakers in a HT application). Well, I think I have a couple of options here. I would either opt for some Paradigm Reference speakers or KEF XQ speakers. The KEFs have a very modern look to them which some people love and others find them too cold looking, but the sound is quite good and they are a very good value. I would suggest the XQ-5s for your front mains and the KEF XQ-1s for your rear speakers with the XQ-2 for your center. The XQ-1 is a compact three way monitor with a woofer and tweeter, plus a super tweeter for greater detail in the sound. I have heard them and they are truly lovely to listen to. The come in several hi-tech gloss finishes, but I must admit I personally prefer the Maple wood finish. The MSRP on the XQ-1s is $1499/pair, but you should be able to find them for 20% off that, perhaps more (if not, call Ed at www.kiefs.com). Similarly, the XQ-2 has an MSRP of $1199, but you should be able to get it for $900 or less. Here is a link to the KEF website: http://www.kef.com/kefamerica/products.asp Now, the Paradigm Reference speakers are a more traditional wooden box finished speaker that also sound great. Incredibly smooth sounding, a pair of Studio 40s or 60s for your front mains, and Studio 20s for the rears, with a CC570 center, it will make for a very nice system and work great with the Rotel receiver, too. I don't have any Paradigm pricing, but it will be very similar to the KEF pricing. Here is a link to the Reference Studio series: http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/StudioSeries/studios eries.html As for a subwoofer, both KEF and Paradigm make excellent subs that will integrate nicely--ask your dealer for the appropriate model. BTW, we love to help, especially people such as yourself--hey, we love to dream and you are living our dream!
Uback007 Bronze Member Username: Uback007 Post Number: 45 Registered: Mar-06	Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 07:59 GMT Listen to Hawk. He's the sage around here :-) Excellent recommendation. What about a NAD T763 instead of the Rotel, though? The cement concerns me.
Russ Stanford New member Username: Orbling Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-06	Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 16:45 GMT Hust an Update, Thanks to Wolf, I went out yesterday and purchased the Rotel 1056, $ 1199. They didnt have a 1057, didnt know about it. they did have a 1067 for 2199, but the guy said I would notice much diff. I also Purchased 4 Paradigm studio 40's for $1299 per, the guy said it would be better than the 20's in back, and this way I would save on a sub-woofer. I ended up with a Paradigm cc170 center, as this was the only one below 7" for my cabinet. The DVD player was also a Rotel product, an RDV1050 for $699. Im listing this for information, as he gave me 7 days to exchange straight across for any upgrades or downgrades, so if y'all have any further suggestions, fire away. Thanks for the help, Im excited about putting it all together!!!
Russ Stanford New member Username: Orbling Post Number: 4 Registered: Apr-06	Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 16:46 GMT oops! wolf..... I meant Hawk. there are too many wild animals in here....
Nuck Gold Member Username: Nuck Post Number: 2277 Registered: Dec-04	Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 17:09 GMT Nice purchase Russ. The Rotel combo will deliver very accurate power that the Paradigm's will soothe the savage beast. The speaker choices seem like something I would not consider myself(the 20's are outstanding), but until you invite me over for a beer, I would not know. Congrats, a truly enviable system!

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