Best bet speakers 5.1 all <$2k? Guru's needed!
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New member Username: MarkpopeLawrenceville, GA USA Post Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I've been reading the posts for weeks and the expertise on display is amazing! To business: I put a cheap Sony 5.1 w/my Mitsu 65' upstairs (now the kids room) and was never satisfied re:audio. Bought a 37'Sharp LCD for the living room (15X17 w/large openings to other rooms on two sides). I want a 5.1 system that will do music for parties (replacing current old Sony w/2 floor & 2 surround) and surround for movies. I need all speakers at $2,000. Been thinking 2 floor & 2 bookshelf. Floor 'cause they look macho and bookshelf 'cause tired of dinky surrounds. Can someone give me the top 3 choices? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3868 Registered: Mar-05 | does the $2K budget include a subwoofer? What receiver/amp will you be using? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 808 Registered: Dec-03 | I would be willing to make a few suggestions, but your post leaves me with more questions than it answers: 1. Does the budget (<$2K) include a receiver? 2. If not, what receiver do you have? (necessary to know to match sound properly) 3. Is your budget meant to include getting the subwoofer and center speaker (you mention 2 floorstanders and 2 bookshelfs--that only four speakers!)? Nice choice on the LCD, BTW . . . |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1319 Registered: Sep-04 | M&K K series. Dinky speakers, BIG sound, great surround! B&W 600 series with PV-1 sub if possible (their best sub by far), otherwise a Velodyne sub. Regards, Frank. |
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New member Username: Firebook23Post Number: 8 Registered: Sep-05 | Try one of the PSB Speakers Image Series Set ups. http://www.psbspeakers.com/imageHTS.php |
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New member Username: MarkpopeLawrenceville, GA USA Post Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 | Good questions! You'd a thought I would have learned something from all the posts I read before posting. I thought I would start w/the speakers and then start asking about the proper receiver to drive the speakers. Seem's to me good sound starts w/the speakers but I'm no expert. (I was the first and probably the last on my block to buy a digital 8 track player for my car.) I' was thinking about $700 for a receiver/amp. My 2K speaker budget was to cover center and sub as well. Suggestions to date are on my list to research, more welcome! |
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Silver Member Username: DakulisSpokane, Washington United States Post Number: 912 Registered: May-05 | Mark, In that price range, including a sub and center, you're going to have some limitations. I'd look at the Paradigm, Ascend Acoustics, B & W 600s, and Alegria Audios Emmas. For a sub, the HSU subs or M & K subs, although you'll be hard pressed to find a M & K at that price but you might want to look at their refurbs, closeouts at: http://www.mksoundstore.com/store/ For a receiver, in order I'd look at Marantz, Denon or HK - about the same. Also, I wouldn't rule out the Outlaw 1070 direct from Outlaw. IMHO those are some decent options. Good luck, Dave |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 828 Registered: Dec-03 | Mark Pope: OK, now we are rolling. You have a good sized room, not too big nor too little. You want floorstanding speakers for the fronts and bookshelf types for the rears. The hard part is the floorstanders--not many I would recommend in your price range. Here goes: for <$2K, I would suggest a pair of Monitor Audio RS6 speakers, with an RS LCR for the center and RS1s for the rear. Street price for this system is about $1500. Then add a Hsu STF-1 subwoofer for $299 and your system only lacks a receiver. Now the Monitors are very detailed and a bit on the forward side, sonically. My choice for a receiver would be an NAD T753 or a Marantz 7500, which are comparable both price wise and sonically. The NAD has an easier time with the lower impedences of the Monitors (most speakers today are not a nominal 8 ohm load anymore, at least not the good ones. NAD has a definite advantage here as it is stable down to 2 ohms). I would not recommend the Outlaw with these speakers however, as it is both forward and cool sounding. Monitor Audios sound better with a warmer sounding amp like NAD or Marantz. Good luck! |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 155 Registered: Dec-05 | Mark, I'm going to take your $700 dollars for a receiver into account.  Another option: Dynaudio Audience 62 & 42c for fronts, 42 for Rears ($2100), Panasonic SAXR55 receiver($200), and the Hsu Sub STF-2($399). |
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New member Username: MarkpopeLawrenceville, GA USA Post Number: 3 Registered: Apr-06 | Elderion - Will a $200 receiver really suffice? I'm interested in the concept. Hawk - I couldn't find the Monitor Audio RS6 for less than $750 per, am I missing something? Dakulis - thanks for the nice link! Thanks to all for the suggestions, I'm researching all. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 161 Registered: Dec-05 | Mark, The Panasonic SAXR55 is an awesome bargain because it uses digital amps. IMHO, as far as sound quality, it takes a $800 or more of conventional receiver to really beat it if you can match it with quality speakers, which the Dyns are. It really drives my Audience82 well as far as dynamic and highs, not as good as my Outlaw gears, but a lot of fun. It will highlight your speaker strength and weaknesses. It sounds ok on my Polks, great with my Dyns. Lacks a little lows on my 82s (which I expected), but you have that cover with the Hsu sub. I think you will like it with the Audiences, sonicly, they match really well. |
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Bronze Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 61 Registered: Mar-06 | mark! under $2k. Everyone has their taste of loudspeaker designs. just because someone recommends a certain brand, it may not sound good to you. I suggest you either shop around and listen for yourself or buy used from audiophiles. Is sound staging, imaging, placement, furniture, matching etc. your concern? If you choose used from audiophiles, go visit www.audiogon.com or even ebay. There a many good manufacturers and choice loudspeakers like anything else is a personal choice. There's members here that are retailers or former retailers. I would get their advice more so than the ones that are merely influencing you with their personal taste. All that's mentioned are quality manufacturers and good choices for those who find them appealing. Is it going to suit your needs is the point? An example, some like dynamics,planars, electrostatic, omnipolar and other exotic designs. Whatever you choose, I endorse a product that improves speaker,amplifier or equipment performances. www.dakiom.com a feedback stabilizer. |
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New member Username: MarkpopeLawrenceville, GA USA Post Number: 4 Registered: Apr-06 | Elderion - Will a $200 receiver really suffice? I'm interested in the concept. Hawk - I couldn't find the Monitor Audio RS6 for less than $750 per, am I missing something? Dakulis - thanks for the nice link! Thanks to all for the suggestions, I'm researching all. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2261 Registered: Dec-04 | Mark, the Panasonic idea is a pipe deam, however you have to spend a good dollar more for proper power. Try the Panasonic though, if you like thin power, you might also see Yamaha. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3880 Registered: Mar-05 | Mark, here's one of countless Panasonic threads on avsforums.com http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7531831#post7531831 Note the postings by "fanofmusic"...typical Pannyphobe: comically ignorant and close-minded. PS. I have no problems with people who dislike the Panny AFTER hearing it. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3881 Registered: Mar-05 | Anyways the xr55 is nearly impossible to find right now, you'd have to wait until at least June for the xr57 to come out since most places are sold out of their xr55 stock...pretty darn amazing, considering that Panasonic has done ZERO advertising for this product. So if you have to have a receiver today I'd suggest the HK635 at $630 shipped from vanns.com It would match very well with this Ascend configuration: 1 pair CMT-340SEs fronts, 1 CMT-340SE center, 1 pair CBM-170SEs for surrounds, $1184 shipped from ascendacoustics.com and for about another $600 you can roll in a Hsu STF-3 subwoofer. If you must have that floorstander look you can get the Ascend stands for the 340 mains: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/access/spkstnds/pedstlcmt340.html |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2266 Registered: Dec-04 | bdbaba was right. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3882 Registered: Mar-05 | Nice to see you finally beginning to see the light, Nuck! LOL In post #115, "bdba" writes: "Between my brother and I we have compared the panny XR55 to a yamaha receiver, a kenwood sovereign receiver and to both a rotel 991 and a rotel 993--no slouches as amps go with over 200 watts of power x2 and x3 respectively. The panny easily bested the receivers. The panny more then holds its own against the much more expensive rotels as well, and even excells in many areas like clarity. The only area it loses in is a bit of midbass power. Other then that, the panny is definitely a keeper for us." |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 840 Registered: Dec-03 | Mark: I believe the street price on the RS6s is around $750/pair (MSRP is $999/pair). Now, I have not priced them recently myself, but I was talking to another person who got a pair and that is what he quoted me as what he paid. Unfortunately, I have no way of checking that this evening, but I will do so on Monday by calling Kiefs (a great firm to do business with!). Nevertheless, I did look at the new review of the speaker in Stereophile (just posted on the eCoustics Reviews page) and they cite the MSRP as $1000/pair, so I really think I am right about this. If your dealer is charging $750 per speaker, you need to get another dealer (try Kiefs). As for the Panny, it does not generate anywhere near the power they claim. My father in law has one and I have had the opportunity to give it a workout--it is strictly a low power job good for very efficient speakers in a small room (he has Klipsch in-walls, so very efficient speakers, but it is in a 20 x 18 room, thus it is overwhelmed by the space). I used a pair of NHTs L-5s to test it out and the little sucker just choked (the NHTs are a nominal 6 ohm speaker with low efficiency--85 db). I note that Panasonic rates it at "100 wpc (6 channels)", but that is only at 1kHz (not across the entire audio range), and then only through 6 ohms, not the usual 8 ohms. Furthermore, they do not call it 100 wpc x 6, but use parenthesis to imply it is through six channels. Ah-hah, that is clearly "lawyer-speak", so it is a lie as well. I estimate the Panny is a true 30-35 wpc x 6 receiver, no more. There is no way that receiver is half the receiver of a current Rotel AVR--well, except maybe in a closet. But what can you expect for $300 ($200 street). For what it is, it certainly does do a better job than most other bottom rung AVRs, so it does represent a good value. Just don't expect it to do that much. |
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Bronze Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 63 Registered: Mar-06 | regarding receivers, i would also recommend for the budget, pionner, kenwood and marantz, pioneer has the mcacc room acoustic adjuster like pink noise. the vsx 1015 has thx select 2. kenwood and marantz receivers have better sound processors with the SRSLABS patented circle sound technology similar to the CARVER SUNFIRE sonic holography which creates a 3-D imaging. Yamaha does have a similiar circuitry to the pioneer MCACC processor which automatically adjusts the room acoustics on your system instead of manually using a pink noise microphone to make adjustments manually. If pure amplifier performance is what you are after instead of overall versatillity, at the price point you are looking for, then you are going to spend more, rotel is a good choice, so as harmon kardon, denon, onkyo and marantz, but it's going to cost more. if you are into pioneer, the elite series. My preference is carver sunfire, but they are outside my pay range and many others. Mark levinson is another or anything mcintosh. budget receivers is pioneer, kenwood, yamaha and better choice is marantz and harmon kardon internally. Sony are good on the models higher than $600. note: pioneers are not PLANAR friendly, particularly maggies or any speaker system using a 4ohm load, you need external amplifiers on preouts! |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 163 Registered: Dec-05 | Hawk: The Panny are very sensitive to speaker matching, noticed they sound ok on the polks (8 ohm, 89 db) and great on the Dynaudio (4 ohms, 87 db). Just curious, did you get a chance to test your 42s with the Panny and what speaker wire size and length did you use when you test the NHTs? I only asked that because the Panny is very sensitive to both the speaker and wires impedance. I used 6' runs 10 gauge DIY wires with the 82s and it's a huge difference compare to 6' Audioquest 14 gauge wires. The bass and soundstage really showed up on the DIY wires. My room is approx. 25'x15'x9.5'; the 82s and Panny fill it up without a problem. Dyns 4 ohm steady impedance will pull every ounce of juice the Panny has to offer (I suspect it is around 70-80wpc x 6 in 4 ohms). I really think the synergy between Dynaudio and Panny is there, can't say for other speaker matching. Let me know what you think if you get a chance to test the 42s with the Panny and good wires. Mark: The Panny does lack low response, but the Hsu sub will be more than enough to make up for it. I would not recommend the Panny without a quality active sub. The sound clarity and dynamics are there. I think you will really enjoy this system if you audition it. You can always upgrade the Panny later if you feel you need more power, would be very easy with only $200 invested. 2nd suggestion: Epos ELS-303, ELSC, ELS-2 ($1250), Outlaw 1070 receiver ($899), Hsu STF-2 ($399) Good luck and happy auditioning. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3883 Registered: Mar-05 | Hawk, Sorry but you're poking in the dark about the Panny being a "30-35wpc x 6 receiver." Click on the review of the xr70 below, which is as far as I know identical to the xr55 other than a few minor features like HDMI, 6.1 instead of 7.1, and lack of binding posts on all 7 channels: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=806 On page 2, at the bottom, click on the "In the Lab" PDF link where you'll see that it actually was confirmed to do 77.4wpc x 6 at clipping at 8 ohms...since Panasonic's stated "100wpc x 6" claim is for 6 ohms, this is very close to spec. I'm sure that they chose to use the 6 ohm rating just to get the magic "100wpc" for advertising purposes though. I don't know about your father-in-law's room and space, but I have a 6000 cubic foot listening space with 18 foot cathedral ceilings and the Panny powers my Ascend 340 classics (8ohms, 92db sensitivity) without a problem, I hit +90db effortlessly at around -20 to -25 volume and with zero audible distortion or thinness compared to both the Marantz 5400 and the NAD separates I had before. I have also tested the Panny on a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 8.2s which are a 6 ohm and about 87db sensitivity speakers...yes had to crank the volume setting higher in order to get the same output as my Ascends but again no problems hitting 90-95db without any audible distortion. Of course if you are used to listening at +100db then the Panny is probably not ideal, but I think most people are more than comfortable at 80-85db. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3884 Registered: Mar-05 | Elderion, I am not sure if the Panny lacks low response at all...I often listen to music on it with my Ascend 340s running full range and my sub turned off, and the bass is very tight and precise. My NAD separates did have stronger, thuddier bass which however did get a little overbearing at high volumes...but that could've been more of an indicator of my speakers' limitations of course. I've never heard about this issue of different wiring, I've always used IXOS 11 gauge semi-flat (bi-wired), have on occasion switched to generic Phillips 12 gauge when ABing different speakers without any noticeable difference. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3885 Registered: Mar-05 | PS. Elderion is correct about the Panny being sensitive to speaker matching, though. It seems to do poorly with speakers that have a lot of impedance swings, and since it's practically impossible to determine which speakers have that or not based on paper specs, it can be a crap-shoot to match the optimal speakers with it. (See the thread "Whelp, Jan is dead on" in the Receivers section.) Which is why I've always recommended people order the Panny from a place with a liberal return policy like Amazon.com and use the $15-20 return shipping cost as an in-home audition fee...thank God it only weighs about 8lbs, lol! |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 164 Registered: Dec-05 | Edster, I think you will notice it in full range speakers. The 82s can hit 26hz with the monoblocks. The Panny does not have enough juice to get all the 8's in the 82s going. Can only hit about 30hz but starts rolling off about 40hz. All the bass is very tight and accurate though, just the way I like it. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 845 Registered: Dec-03 | Elderion: No, I didn't take my Dynaudios over--I know it is a 4 ohm speaker and I didn't believe the Panny could handle the load (as most receivers cannot), but perhaps now I will based upon your experience. Edster is correct that speakers with wild impedence swings do create a greater challenge and perhaps the NHTs fall into that camp--unless I see a bench test, I really have no way of knowing. I had to make a decision on which speaker to take based upon the so-called "nominal impedence" rating. Next time I have the chance, I will take my Dyns and try it out. Then I will post what I learned. Edster: I really have to disagree with your assumption, my friend. I looked at the S&V review you linked to and I noticed right away that the XR-70 is shown rated as a 100 wpc x 6 receiver at 20Hz-20kHz. That told me right away that the amp section was not the same as the 55 model, which is rated at 100 wpc at 1kHz only. Clearly, the 70 has a much better quality amp section, so I stand by my conclusions, although admittedly they are only an estimate, not a true bench test. Nevertheless, as I said before, it is an excellent value for the right situation, but it does have its limitations. I definitely think it is lacking in the low end, but hey, remember it is only $200 (street price)! The 70 has a MSRP of $300 higher, so you know they had to have some real improvments to justify the price point. You always have to take the price level in consideration, so like I said, for its price range, the 55 does a great job, but no one should suggest that it out-performs Rotels--that is utter nonsense. It is certainly perfect for my father in law who only uses it for background music, and the occasional DVD, but he never listens to it turned up to my listening levels (in fact, I think he disconnected his sub. Go figure). |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2287 Registered: Dec-04 | But Eddie is sure that some listener traded his Rotel for a Panasonic. Eddie, I still stand by my offer of a free Panny for any Rotel, as you recall, you shut that one down pretty quick. I have Panny's out the fanny. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 165 Registered: Dec-05 | Hawk I think you will enjoy the Dyns42 with the Panny, nice sound...it reminds me more of electrostatic, which is why I keep the Panny around. Just remember to run it with 10-12 gauge wires. Any quality receiver over $800 will show the Panny its proper place, IMHO, but between $300-800 it's hard to beat. I think Rotels sound better than my Outlaws, much less the Panasonic, but we are talking $1k difference in price. Nuck, how about those Senators? Think they can beat the defending Stanley Cup holder? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2289 Registered: Dec-04 | Elderion, thanks for that post. The Panny may have its place, it's just not a place I visit often. Since the Leafs suck, I am hoping the Sens go down in 5 agaainst the Stars. I stinking hate the stars, especially Modano, because they are so good.RATS! Stars and the Wings in the west, the East, I call the Devils and??. Again Eld, thanks for the post, I will still put my 985 up against nearly anything, with my funky Psb's. The music, ahh the Music.. |
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Bronze Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 64 Registered: Mar-06 | for you panasonic fans, TECHNICS is their professional company/subsidiary. they're known for their turntables sl 1200mk series, dj favorites. I'm happy with my pioneer even though it has it's flaws like any other. Panny's is a good manufacturer. Just don't buy generic or anything bose when it comes to receivers/speakers unless you're into target practice. Best rock speakers are theater research...it literall is made out of rocks and sound like rocks. You only get bose if your nose grows! lies, lies, lies like pinocchio! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3886 Registered: Mar-05 | > I really have to disagree with your assumption, my friend. I looked at the S&V review you linked to and I noticed right away that the XR-70 is shown rated as a 100 wpc x 6 receiver at 20Hz-20kHz. That told me right away that the amp section was not the same as the 55 model, which is rated at 100 wpc at 1kHz only. Where did you see these ratings? Links? The amp section is identical...I know this from AVS Forum threads where far more technically-skilled people than myself have taken apart both the xr70 and xr55 and compared the internals side by side with photos. Having never heard a Rotel in a shop let alone at home on my own gear I will withhold comment...however I don't think all these people popping up saying that they've found the Panny equal or better than such high-priced equipment are all Panasonic advertising department shills nor hearing impaired. Ditto for those HK7*** owners who've had similar experiences with the Panny. And while I've never ABed a Krell with my Panny, I can tell you that having heard what I was told was a $20,000 Krell amp at Tweeter a few months ago, I was *not* particularly impressed at all. I'm sure the Krell might run circles around the Panny with difficult speakers, but what I heard of it on some $4000 Focal towers was really very "so what?" I do know one thing for sure, the Marantz 5400 which was tested at a solid 90wpc (and cost nearly 3 times as much new) did not hold a candle to the Panny with my speakers in my room, not even in the bass department. > Nevertheless, as I said before, it is an excellent value for the right situation, but it does have its limitations. I definitely think it is lacking in the low end, but hey, remember it is only $200 (street price)! The 70 has a MSRP of $300 higher, so you know they had to have some real improvments to justify the price point. Actually the street price for the Panny 55 was $250 (Circuit City, the few stores that carried it and the website; Amazon's $230 shipped was the best I found online) whereas the XR70 goes for $300, a $50 difference mainly attributed to it having HDMI which the XR55 does not---nobody who knows both receivers would pick the XR70 for any other reason, since the 70 has only 6 instead of 7 channels, binding posts only on the 2 L/R speakers, and lowest crossover at 100Hz instead of 80Hz like the XR55. PS. I would never advise anyone to pair the Panny with Klipsch, JBL, or Athenas since those are all commonly known to be "bright" speakers, which would fare poorly against the Panny's "ruler-flat frequency response" (as per the S&V reviewer, who used M&K speakers which like the Ascends are known for being very neutral speakers) as opposed to a typical analog receiver's rolled-off treble. I suspect this accounts for much of your experience with your father-in-law's setup. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 167 Registered: Dec-05 | Based on my research, Edster is correct about the 70 and 55 power section being the same with the difference in cosmetic and HDMI. The Panny does sound more musical than my H/K AVR55 with the 82s, but the H/K was more forgiving of the Polks weaknesses. Mark, Last suggestion: Jmlab Chorus 714s, Chorus cc70s, Chorus 705s (~$1650), Hsu STF-2 ($399). Nuck, I'm pulling for the Lightning in the East, but I think the Sens or Devils will win the East. My wife is a Stars fan all the way, she especially like Modano. I think the Flames or Wings will emerged in the West. I think your Rotel and PSBs are just "ok." |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3887 Registered: Mar-05 | LOL don't know why I didn't think to do this earlier, but on page 25 of the Panasonic sa-xr55 manual, it reads: "Rated minimum sine wave RMS power output 20 Hz-20kHz both channels driven, .09%THD ... 100wpc (6 ohms) 1 kHz continus power output both channels driven .09%THD ... 100wpc (6 ohms) Power output each channel driven .09%THD at 1kHz Front (L/R) ... 100wpc (6 ohms) Center ... 100wpc (6 ohms) Surround (L/R) ... 100wpc (6 ohms) Surround back (L/R) ... 100wpc (6 ohms)" |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3888 Registered: Mar-05 | And most recently, this from a user of NAD and Audio Refinement gear: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7540283#post7540283 |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3889 Registered: Mar-05 | for the xr70 manual download: http://www.usersmanualguide.com/panasonic/av_control_receiver for the xr55 manual download: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009E1YPW/103-8193296-2088629?v=glance&n=17228 2 As far as I can see, the specs are pretty much identical. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 168 Registered: Dec-05 | Clarification: Regarding the Rotel sound, I was refering to solid state models. The Panny does sound pretty close to Rotel RMB 1077 digital amp that I auditioned, I would say its close to 85% of the sound for 10% of the price. |
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Bronze Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 65 Registered: Mar-06 | ROTEL, HOTEL, HOLIDAY INN, if you're girl starts acting up, then go take her friend, sounds like sugerhill gang rap. I'm sorry, if you listen to rap, better get DJ equipment. High end gear is for sweet melodic music, like BUBBLES! LAWRENCE WELK anyone? What's with the rotel and panny arguement? can't audio maniacs can all just get along. I think I heard from MARS ATTACK! Myself, between a rotel receiver and panasonic, i would choose a rotel. ROACH ROTEL! that's an off shoot high end name of the infamous roach motel! |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 172 Registered: Dec-05 | I was thinking about these babies for your rock and roll, Nuck:   Heard these at the dealer with a full 5.1 setup. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1326 Registered: Sep-04 | Hawk, Although the Audience range are a 4-ohm load, they appear to be a lot easier to drive than they used to be. I can even drive a pair of 42s wih a 320BEE. A pair of 40s would have sounded awful on the end of that just a few years ago. I think that they're a very linear load, so although they like their juice, the load isn't so reactive that can cause an amplifier too many problems. Mark, If you can get Dynaudio Audience 62/42C/42 for $2100, this would be a very nice combination indeed. The 62s are smallish floorstanders of some quality and good frequency extremes. There is also a wall mountable version of the 42 called the 42W which could help too. Musically, the Dynaudios are very competitive and their resolution is fine too so they get good surround results. As to subs, I know the Velodynes and really rate them. They also blend well with the Dynaudios. They start at around $300 I believe. (Not sure of prices since I'm in the UK.) By all means look at the Panny, but still investigate your original option of $700 amps. I still haven't been able to hear the XR55 so I can't comment on its fidelity. That said, if it were as good as is often made out on the forum one wonders why the Sony people would miss a trick at making some more money! I'm sure it's impressive but there have been quite a few people who have complained about it being quite bright. The only way to be sure is to hear something in comparison. Also don't forget about the source. Not sure if you mentioned this earlier, but not all disc players are alike in quality or fidelity. There is a difference between tham and it's not just how much air they contain! You don't need to go crazy to get a good source. For example, the Denon DVD1920 is a fine player with all the connections one would want and pretty good audio (even acting as a transport). I find the cheap Pioneers and Panasonics suffer in the audio section - again when just being used as transports - more than their video which often makes higher end machines look very bad value for money. I still don't understand how a DVD player which is only being used for its digital audio connection can make a difference to the sound, but it does. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: BvanCape Town, Copenhagen,... Post Number: 141 Registered: Jun-05 | frank, can i butt in here and ask you something. i've got a friend asking me to advise him in buying his first ht system. my shortlist for speakers would most likely only include b&w and dynaudio. i picked up my ears when i heard you recommending the 62's. although friend has a preference for floorstanders, i had not concidered the 62's(the only dyn floorstander under budget). partly because i dont remember ever coming upon anyone owning a pair of these(versus maybe 200+ 52 owners i've come across online). the other reason i didnt think about the 62 is that i'm trying to talk him into standmounts(small apartment and he'll get a velodyne). i dont see any point in paying for more than the 52's when youre using bass management and therefore not even use the extra extention youre paying for. do you? i guess my question is just, why the 62 such a low profile speaker? any drawbacks to it vs the 52's that youve come across? cheers b. p.s you any idea how the denon 3805 partner with dyn 52's? |
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Bronze Member Username: DarthThe woodlands Post Number: 49 Registered: Aug-05 | Ha ha ha, my god! This is unreal; I have been out for a couple of months and come back just to sadly see that edster is still talking about the same Panasonic crap! Man the guy has no life.... Mediocre guy with a mediocre system...good match ! lol eddie you need to get out there and LISTEN my friend. It is hilarious when you say "I have no problem with people who listen to the panny and do not like it" yeah right! Not matter what, you always get tickled when someone makes negative comments about your plastic box. My oh my. No eddie, I am not that anonymous....Later |
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New member Username: MarkpopeLawrenceville, GA USA Post Number: 5 Registered: Apr-06 | I'm still rapidly pulling information on all of the wonderful suggestions. On to Frank & Elderion's recent suggestions. I've worked electronics before (helicopters, USMC years ago) but you guys really have some impressive details at hand. I appreciate the insight and continued suggestions! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2295 Registered: Dec-04 | Jeez Laweez, not again! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2296 Registered: Dec-04 | Hi again Vader. Thanks Eld. I cannot name the speakers, but my dealer carries classe amps. I always feel underdressed, ya' know? Im in Camden, NJ, and loving the Flyers goin' down.(though quietly). |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3893 Registered: Mar-05 | Vader-onymous, you are such a lousy liar...we all know you've been lurking around here as usual under various bogus screen names...too bad that the admin finally disallowed anonymous posting or your sad excuse of a life would be much merrier, wouldn't it? LOL Maybe in your newest reappearance you'll be a little less boring, predictable and conformist. Just repeat after me: "yes I CAN, yes I CAN, yes I CAN!!!" rotfl... |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3898 Registered: Mar-05 | Frank, Sony actually does have a couple of digital-switching receivers in its ES line, with the ES pricetag of course...$2K and up if I'm not mistaken. Have actually heard good things about them though for that pricepoint I would certainly hope to. It's nice to see that you are keeping an open mind on the Panny until you get a chance to hear it for yourself. Yep it's a pretty controversial little thing, which IMO makes it all the more fun! : ) I am plotting to buy a Super T-Amp for my bedroom system in the next few weeks...hopefully the wife won't notice since it's even tinier than the Panny. |
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Bronze Member Username: BasicaudioChula vista, Ca US Post Number: 69 Registered: Mar-06 | elderion, that's a nice combo their with B&W! THAT is SWEET! who's fortunate enough to have that for a HT system? mr. pope, the B&W can create your helicopter sound rather convincingly that your worked on with the USMC! |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1333 Registered: Sep-04 | Mark, For your information, for the last 11 years or so I have 'worked' in a HiFi specialist store on Saturdays in the UK (during the week I'm a tech support specialist). This is why I've picked up some opinions (I wouldn't call it more than that) on certain kit, and why I'm at pains to point out I haven't heard the XR-55... Bvan, Here in the UK, the 62 and 52 are pretty much of a price within the equivalent of your $50 when you include 52 stands in the price. You must use good stands with the 52s. They generate so much energy that a lesser stand will simply make them buzz. I'm not saying get the heaviest stand - get the right stand such as Dynaudio's own Masterstands. Use the incorrect stand and the result is less than suitable. The 62 is a fine speaker. It is different to the 52 in that it is a) a floorstander and b) front ported. It's not as popular as the 52 here either, but it is very good indeed. The 52 has a more overt lower midrange presence than the 62, which is to say the 62 is a bit better balanced. However, the 52 is therefore more lively than the 62. Swings and roundabouts in many ways. The 62 is more popular with people who are restricted in terms of space. The front port on the 62 means it can work quite close to the rear wall. The 52 needs more space behind it than the 62 otherwise the port bass becomes really obvious. So in this respect the 62 is more versatile. However the 52 does have that lively characteristic, and I believe this is why in a straight shootout between them the 52 will usually win. If you can, try to convince your friend to consider the larger of the two centres in that range. The 122C is significantly better than the 42C and makes a world of difference to your appreciation of a movie. It has far far more resolution and makes things much more intelligible. That said, the 122C is far larger, so many people can't accommodate it, which is a real shame. As to going with floorstanders versus standmounts, as you know I'm a real advocate of finding the speaker you prefer. Every design is a compromise, one way or another, and it's up to you to choose which compromise you want to use. Since both the 52 and 62 come out with similar amounts of bass I don't think it makes much difference in practice from that point of view. Also, I would set all these speakers to Large (yes, even the 42s at the back) on the processor since they are all quite capable of good integrated bass. It's worth playing around with in practice of course, but it's usual for them to be set to large - if he goes with it, the 3805's auto setup will agree. If, on the other hand you went with an Arcam AVR250 or better, these speakers would work even better when set to 'Direct' for stereo sources such as music CDs (not sure if the Denon has an equivbalent). This is the situation where you have a full range speaker doing its thing properly, rather than splitting between satellites (big or no) and sub. I find that the splitting process is always less than satisfactory by comparison to using full-range speakers. A 3805 will be absolutely fine with a Dynaudio Audience package. The Audience speakers are a 4-ohm load, but it's relatively benign. For example, I think Totem Arros are more difficult to drive than 62s! Finally, if you do go as far up as the 3805, try to convince your friend to go for a DVD2910 or better. The DVD2910 is a fine machine with an very good picture (if not as good as the Pioneer 989i), but with excellent sound reproduction via its coax digital output (better than the Pioneer 989i). It's also better than the Pioneer on music via its analogue outputs. If he has a separate CD player, it may be worth his while going for the Pioneer for its picture, but if he's going with just the one disc player, the 2910 would be my choice. All that said, I'd take the Arcams over any of these options, certainly the processors. They're more musical and better integrated in my view, but I appreciate that the Arcams are probably appreciably more expensive than the Denons which makes the Denons far better value for money. A 3805 is almost the same price as an AVR250 here. Finally, I discount the Pioneers. I've had them in the shop and I was appalled at their performance - very disappointed. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: BvanCape Town, Copenhagen,... Post Number: 143 Registered: Jun-05 | thanks frank. i didnt realize the 62's were front ported. we'll go have a listen soon. might sell him my 2900(i prefere my 2200). there is also an arcam avr200 going for a good price locally that we are concidering. should be o.k? cheers b. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 173 Registered: Dec-05 | Bvan, Just a small suggestion. From my experience, a good way to test between stand mounts and floor standers is to add a sub to the mix. This way you can hear the full range and how each speaker will integrate with the sub. Usually, if you test the standmount and floorstander by themselves, the standmount will appear to be more musical because the low frequencies are missing, letting your ears hear the mids and hi better. The 62 can reach down to 36 hz thanks to its cabinet and ability to breathe. The 52 can only reach 52 hz per Dynaudio specifications. This will also allows the 52 to be more dynamic within its frequencies because it has to do less work, but with enough power, this might not be an issue. Good luck. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 174 Registered: Dec-05 | Mark, Thank you for your service to our country. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 175 Registered: Dec-05 | Nuck, The speaker is B&W 800D. I can say it was a blast to be surrounded by equipment costing more than a brand new Porsche Boxster. Have fun in NJ, my bolts got clobbered by the Sens last nite, 8-4. Ouch. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2305 Registered: Dec-04 | What a coincidence, Eld, I am also underdressed for the Porsche, hehe. St Louis can't do it alone.(unless he plays goal as well). |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1338 Registered: Sep-04 | Elderion In practice there isn't that much difference in bass depth between the 62 and 52. The numbers may say one thing but my ears tell me another (and I would really miss the lower octave that would be missing with the 52 if that were the case). Bvan I think an AVR200 might just be a step too far. I vaguely remember selling the combination but now I would definitely have to listen before recommendation. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 177 Registered: Dec-05 | Frank, I'm sure you are right. In practice, being the speakers have different port configurations, the bass would be reinforced differently in a given room configuration. I just wanted to point out that adding a sub will allow a better comparison between standmounts and floorstanders. At least this has been my experience. Cheers, Eld BTW, My wife and I are planning to revisit London in the near future. Great fish and chips, but have the steak improved? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1342 Registered: Sep-04 | Depends on when your last visit was, but nowadays London is generally considered to have one of the finest selections of restaurants in the world. There's a lot of choice. The problem with London is that it's also one of the most expensive in the world to eat out! But generally the food is actually pretty good. Regards, Frank. |
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Silver Member Username: EldTexas Post Number: 179 Registered: Dec-05 | Sounds great other than the cost. Looking forward to visiting London again. Thanks, Frank. |
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