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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I need to make a decision on an A/V receiver and a set of surround speakers (5.1). I keep reading these forums for some time now, and I am as undecided as before I started. I am glad that I found this forum, since there is a lot available knowledge provided by a lot of smart guys. My price range for the receiver is $500 - $700. I would do 60% movies and 40% music. I do need the receiver to be capable of 6.1 or 7.1. I do prefer the speakers to be small but powerful. My budget for the speakers is at the same range as the receiver. The room size is 14 X 18. Please help. Thanks |
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Silver Member Username: GavincummNew York USA Post Number: 954 Registered: Feb-05 | take a look at the following brands: pioneer pioneer elite integra yamaha Harman Kardon Denon I am not going to reccomend specific recievers as each of us has different tastes, and each of these recievers has a different sound. I myself think that the Pioneer Elite and Integra are top of the heap, but some might disagree with me. Take your time in auditioning a reciever and speaker combination, as it can make or break your system. Some combinations that work well together: Pioneer Elite / Axiom (warm reciever w/ bright speakers) Yamaha / Paradigm (slightly brighter sound) Integra / Paradigm (smooth reciever w/ smooth speakers) there are many others, these are just a few off the top of my head for starters before I go to bed. I will try to post some more tomorrow. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2130 Registered: Dec-04 | Gus, are you only going to buy new, or will you consider refurbed receiver? |
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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 2 Registered: Apr-06 | Nuck, Reurbed is also considered. Have in mind that I am looking combinations of receiver & small speakers. Gavin, Thanks for the info. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2136 Registered: Dec-04 | Gus, 14 x 18 is a fair sized room, how small is small for the speakers? Would small bookshelf speakers do it? Or do you mean sats? See Mirage or Omni thread above? Read that one all the way through? |
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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 3 Registered: Apr-06 | Nuck, Thanks for the info. I am looking for sats. I was looking the Polk audio RM6900. Are these good speakers? If yes, what's a good receiver that goes with them? By the way is the Infinity brand good? Thanks again. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3796 Registered: Mar-05 | Nuck is referring to this thread: https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/213821.html The sats in the Polk and Infinity HTIBs are not bad but the sucky subs they stick you with are what really drag down those setups. I'd recommend any of the 3 systems discussed in the thread above over Polk/Infinity (haven't heard the Orbs but have heard the Polk, Infinity, Mirage and Ascend/Hsu systems), they're about the same price range and will give you much better bang for the buck. |
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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 4 Registered: Apr-06 | Edster, Thanks. I guess you mean the Mirage, Orbs or the Ohm ones. Who makes the Ohm ones? what's their web site? Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3797 Registered: Mar-05 | er...no, the thread ended up discussing the Mirage, Orbs, and Ascend/Hsu setups. No mention of Ohm speakers. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 788 Registered: Dec-03 | Gus: Here is the link to the Ohm Acoustics website: http://www.ohmspeaker.com/1/Ohm-Acoustics.html I have not heard their smaller speakers, but they come with a 60 day home trial, so you might consider them. RANDOM THOUGHTS REGARDING YOUR SYSTEM: As for a receiver, I am really down on almost all mass market brands. Their biggest problem is that they put in weak, puny power supplies that cannot deliver their rated power. Come to a crescendo in music or an exploding car in a movie and they totally break up, sound-wise. So a receiver rated at the typical 100 wpc can just barely deliver 100 wpc into 2 channels. However, go to five channels and the power can typically drop by 30-40% or only 60wpc (or even more--a couple of years ago, a top receiver was rated by the manufacturer as 100 wpc, but when bench tested by Sound & Vision magazine, it clipped at a mere 27 wpc!). Go to six or seven channels and the power drops even more, and even then it is power delivered into an 8 ohm short, not a real speaker load, so even the bench tested power result is artificially high! Consequently, I have heard a 50wpc NAD receiver blow away three other brands receivers rated at 100 wpc, simply because it has a quality power supply driving it. See the discussion entitled "pwr ratings revealed" on the "Receivers" forum. There are only five brands that deliver their rated power over all channels: Harman/Kardon, Marantz, NAD, Outlaw and Rotel. Rotel ($1499 and up) and Outlaw's ($899) offerings are above your price range, so you can drop them. NAD only offers a 5 channel receiver in your price range, so that doesn't met your needs. That leaves Marantz or Harman/Kardon. Good stuff, and either makes a quality receiver that can be the basis of a very fine system. If you go the Marantz route, stick with the SR 5x00 receivers (5400, 5500, or 5600) as they have much better parts inside than does the 4x00 receivers--you can hear the difference. Same thing is true with the Harmans--stick with the 200 series (235, 240) receivers and above. The problem you will have will be to get truly good speakers that are "small but powerful" for your price range of $500 to $700. Is that budget for a full 5.1 speaker system, or are you looking to buy the main speakers for that amount and add the other speakers as you go along? If you are willing to spend that amount on just the front three speakers, knowing you will add to them later as your budget allows, you can have a very good system and you will have a number of good choices to make your choice from. Frankly, I do not believe it is possible to get a good 5.1 (which includes a subwoofer) speaker system for that price range, at least, not small but powerful speakers. How small are we talking here? If you can handle a typical bookshelf size, then you can get a great system from Ascend Acoustics: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/ but even there, a pair of 170 mains, a 340 Center and a pair of HTM-200s for surrounds and you are already at $924 with a subwoofer still to buy. Now, if you want a system with truly small but powerful 5.1 speaker system, I recommend the Totem Dreamcathers, which will set you back about $1279. Paired with a H/K 235 refurb from the Harman Kardon factory store (you should be able to get one for about $200 as you bid on them through eBay), it will make a wonderful system, but I recognize that is a little above your price range. Just a thought. Another small mini system that might work would be the KEF 2005.2, which you can find for about $800, last I heard, if you shop real hard (try calling Kief's--www.kiefs.com). It would work very well with the Marantz receiver. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3803 Registered: Mar-05 | Gus, if I read you correctly, your total budget for receiver and speakers is about $1400-1500? This is what I'd get: Marantz 5400 6.1 receiver, $390 new from accessories4less.com 2 pairs of Athena AS-B1.2s + C1.2 center = $280 from audioadvisor.com Hsu STF-2 subwoofer, $425 shipped from hsuresearch.com $1095 total. You can upgrade to the Marantz 5500 if you want that extra 7th channel, or to the STF-3 if you want even more bass, or add an extra pair of Athena B1.2s. |
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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 5 Registered: Apr-06 | Guys, Thanks again for all the info. I guess I have to go a little bit over my budget. I have a question. How does the Marantz 7400 fit with the Mirage Omnisat V2 sats. I am thinking with going all V2 surround plus the sub. Thanks again |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3806 Registered: Mar-05 | According to Art Kyle who personally knows a number of Marantz dealers, the 6xxx and 7xxx series of Marantz receivers have had quite a few QC issues, while the 5xxx series has had by far the least. I can't see any reason why any Marantz dealer would tell someone that if it were not true. The Mirage Omnisats will be fine for HT and not bad for music, and they are certainly very attractive-looking. |
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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 6 Registered: Apr-06 | Ed, what do you think about the KEF 2005.2 that Hawk mentioned? How do these compare to Mirage OmniSats V2? Thanks again |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3810 Registered: Mar-05 | I haven't heard the KEF system so take the following with a grain of salt: 1. Having the tweeter in front of the woofer does not bode well, if my experience in car audio is any indicator. In my truck, I have some Polk component speakers (separate tweeter & woofer mounted in 2 separate locations) running off a PPI amp. In my Camry, I have some 2-way Infinity Kappa speakers with the tweeter on top of the woofer running off an identical PPI amp. The Polks sound light years better, it's night and day. I still kick myself for not listening to the regulars at caraudioforum.com who told me to go with component speakers in the Camry. 2. The KEFs do look very stylish in the photos, perhaps even a bit more so than the Omnisats. However you need to be very clear in your own mind as to your priorities: prettiness, or sound quality? If it's sound quality, my money would still be on the Ascend HTM-200/Hsu STF-2 combo that I detailed in the other thread which costs about the same and visually is just a little bigger. Personally I'd gladly trade a little bit of aesthetics for a whole lot of sound quality any day, but that's just me. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3028 Registered: Feb-05 | Please excuse this interruption. Edster, I hope you've been following the threads dealing with CD cleaning (see below). The results are shocking! https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/215360.html There is also quite a bit about it here near the end. https://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/home-audio/21154.html You'll have to move up a few posts to get to it. Again I'm sorry for the interruption...I just felt that this something you need to be aware of. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3813 Registered: Mar-05 | thanks a bunch Art, I'd totally missed those threads. I'll be sure to pick up some Pledge next time I'm at the Evil Empire (Wallyworld) and maybe some microfiber towels too. I once did use Brasso to clean an unplayably scratched up DVD from Blockbuster and it worked well, but the surface of the DVD after cleaning was *UGLY*---totally cloudy and smeared up. I'm assuming Pledge will be different? : ) |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1156 Registered: May-05 | Pledge will clean the discs, it won't remove the scratches. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2169 Registered: Dec-04 | The only Brasso I found here in the sticks was graded as course. Uhh...not appropriate. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3031 Registered: Feb-05 | Remember Edster to get the Pledge Multi Surface Clean & Dust (Streak Free Anti Static Spray). Man that was a mouthful... |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2171 Registered: Dec-04 | Quick, Art, 3 times fast! |
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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 7 Registered: Apr-06 | Close to make a decision. By the way, does anyone heard the M&K (Miller & Kreisel)K & XENON series. How are these compare to other sats? Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3815 Registered: Mar-05 | M&K is a very well respected audiophile brand. I have only heard their in-wall speakers with their small sealed sub in a cavernous room and was very impressed. Have no idea how their sats sound though. Keep in mind that a lot of otherwise well-respected speaker companies are known to dip below their normal SQ standards in order to scoop up some of the mainstream "lifestyle" market with gimmicky, pretty-and-petite products. Athena is a good example, if you heard their WS series in Best Buy today you wouldn't believe that they are capable of producing such decent gear as their normal Audition Series. Heineken is not the greatest beer in the world but still a notch or two above Budweiser/Miller/Coors and even THEY have recently come out with a "Lite" beer...lol the apocalypse is near! |
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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 8 Registered: Apr-06 | Ed, Thanks again. I guess Athena "Micra 6" sats are out of the question. My wife is b***ing my b***s about the sat size. Bose is too expensive and don't worth the money. I am trying to avoid mistakes my friends did by buying Lifestyle 48s. I spent more that $3000 on a 50" Panasonic HTDV display and I want some decent sats and receiver. I need some sats with size close to the Bose speakers. That's the whole story. Thanks again |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 800 Registered: Dec-03 | Edster: FYI--the tweeter in the KEFs are NOT in front of the woofer. In fact, they are in the center of the woofer, where the dust cap is on most speakers. KEF has cleverly used what is essentially empty space within the woofer cone to place the tweeter. They call it their "Uni-Q Co-Incident Source Array" and it is meant to provide a more unified soundfield. It is used on all of their speakers, from the 2005.2 system up to an including their wonderful Reference Series. I will certainly agree having the tweeter in front of the woofer is a problem as it will create phase problems if not corrected electronically. Gus: I ran into the same problem with my wife demanding the smallest speakers possible--she didn't want to see them or see the wires connecting them. But check out the KEFs. When I showed them to my wife she was knocked out by how beautiful they are, and the sound is quite good. Just check them out to see and hear for yourself. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 801 Registered: Dec-03 | Oops, forgot the link: http://www.kef.com/KHT/KHT2005.2/home.htm |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3816 Registered: Mar-05 | Gus, well if I were you I'd resign myself to the Micra6 system mainly because it's dirt cheap (you might be able to find it sold w/o the sub online) and then put the savings into a dedicated 2-channel music system in another room. The Micra6 is an excellent performer for HT wherein the brightness almost becomes a plus rather than a minus. Also, for a dedicated HT system you can go cheap on the receiver and DVD player if you get a digital switching receiver. This Pioneer Elite combo for example: http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_product_details.jsp?cid=5614&c=0604PriceGrab ber&b=Pioneer+Elite_EX-500 That way you can get a decent pair of bookshelves, dedicated CDP and receiver in your music only room...possibly staying WITHIN your current $1400 total budget for both systems! |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3817 Registered: Mar-05 | Hawk, thanks for clarifying. I'll have to track down some KEFs locally if available, I'd be curious to hear them. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3819 Registered: Mar-05 | oops, I forgot to mention the Hsu Ventriloquist sat system: http://www.hsustore.com/vt12.html $500 with an STF-1, $600 with an STF-2 ... not great for music but at least you'll get an excellent sub. |
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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 9 Registered: Apr-06 | Ed, Do I get a decent HT system if I get the Micra 6 ($350 online) a sub Hsu STF-2 ($425). The receiver will be Mrantz 5500. I can also go with Polk audio RM10. By the way, I went to two stores this morning an I saw the CANTON sats that are also small. What do you think about these brands? Thanks again. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3821 Registered: Mar-05 | I've never heard Canton gear, but they seem a little pricey. If you like it, accessories4less.com carries them too I think. The Micra6 would be a good match with the Marantz's warmth, better than the Polk RM10. |
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New member Username: AspisPost Number: 10 Registered: Apr-06 | Ed, I narrowed it down to Micra6 os the Hsu Ventriloquist sat system. What would you pick? By the way, how many drivers the Ventriloquist sat has? Looking at their web site why does the center piece has 5 speaker wire connections on the back? Thanks |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3822 Registered: Mar-05 | Sound and Vision magazine explains that better than I could: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=678&page_nu mber=3&preview= > which would you pick? If you are able to set up a 2-channel music system in another room, then I would pick the Ventriloquist in the LR for the extra WAF brownie points due to its smaller size and lower cost. If not, maybe the Micra. That S&V article also covers some other sat systems. |