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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3778 Registered: Mar-05 | ...when he speculated a few months back that the reason people were reporting such wildly disparate results with the Panasonic digital switching receivers were due to some speakers having much greater impedance swings than others: http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/SwitchingAmplifie rIssues.php To be honest, most of the technospeak in that article goes over my head until the last page. I was rather surprised to hear the Panny being associated with "old SET type tube amps" which if I am not mistaken are usually said to be very "warm"---an adjective I have never seen attached to this controversial little thing. I did notice that the main author of the article happens to own a small audiophile (analog) amplifier company and spends the last 1/3 of the article specifically bashing the Panny based entirely on measurements and ending on this self-revealing note: "While writing this article I am reminded of the classic truism of analog design: Out of band rejection and noise reduction go hand in hand. The designers say it doesn't apply here, but I have my reservations." Funny enough, recently I heard from a fellow Panny owner who auditioned both the Classic and the new SE Ascend speakers and found that he much preferred the Classics. He reported that the new SE speakers had less bass and sounded much brighter than the Classics---jaw dropping, since the slightly lower-sensitivity SEs were specifically designed to provide more bass and to seem "warmer." Unfortunately he did not have a chance to compare the two versions on a normal analog receiver. btw, I have not spent a lot of time browsing the Audioholics website but is it my imagination or do they seem to be very measurements-oriented? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8234 Registered: May-04 | Yes, they are. It's hard to imagine just who their reader base is. Most of the articles I've read on their site are similar to this one. When you are done reading you wonder what the fuss was about to post the comments when they are usually accompanied by disclaimers which discount the entire article. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3782 Registered: Mar-05 | Had some interesting responses to this article on the Ascend forum: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=1756 "It's probably worth noting that, from what I recall, the XR50 uses different amp modules than the XR55. If I'm remembering correctly, one of the differences was the frequency at which the switching amps operated. I think the XR70 uses the same amps as the XR50 though. Yes, Audioholics is very measurement focused. It's nice that he got some comments from class-D amp designers in the article, but his links to AudioCircle are very misleading. Most of the feedback on Class-D amps there has been very positive, particularly those using Bruno's Hypex modules (Channel Islands D-100/200, Exodus amps, etc). The threads he has linked to discuss some of the more controversial amps on that forum (NuForce discussion has certainly gone through the extremes on AC)." and also: "I think you have just filled in a hole that is usually missed. That is, integrating a speaker with a receiver/amp properly. Seeing as how there is a direct relationship with how an amplifier works with different impedances, capacitance, and inductance, once you get closer to matching the characteristics of the source and load, the better your system should sound. Consider that the amplifier "see's" the load changing constantly depending on the frequencies it is pushing to the speaker. Unfortunately, it seems to be a crap shoot to find that match. Yes, I also agree that Audioholics focuses on a lot of measurements. Of course, what you hear and like are what really count in the end, no matter what the measurements might indicate." So proper receiver/amp-to-speakers matching is a "crap shoot" due to "how an amplifier works with different impedances, capacitance, and inductance" can vary greatly from speaker to speaker? Yikes! |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2123 Registered: Dec-04 | No wonder the best advise(and is spelled out quite often here) is go and listen to everything you can. If someone elses advise (given via similar tastes in music, etc.) send you in search of a particular piece, or combination of pieces, well go and seek them out for a listen. But the listening room adds to the electrical dilema, via space available, family accord, etc, etc, etc. ad nausium. Bluddy lucky to find anything appropriate, really. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1129 Registered: May-05 | I like Audioholics in some ways. But they are so concerned with measurements. The more I read, the more I think they think everything sounds the same. They seem to listen through spec sheets rather than their ears sometimes. Some think it can all be explained by specs, and some think specs are totally worthless. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. You can't go wrong if you trust your ears. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8242 Registered: May-04 | Unfortunately you can go wrong trusting your ears, if you have no idea how to listen and judge. |
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Gold Member Username: Stu_pittIrvington, New York USA Post Number: 1133 Registered: May-05 | Good call. This explains the avid BOSE fans. |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 3010 Registered: Feb-05 | "Unfortunately you can go wrong trusting your ears, if you have no idea how to listen and judge." Indeed. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3793 Registered: Mar-05 | > Good call. This explains the avid BOSE fans. Not sure about that...I'd guesstimate that the majority of Bose fans have never listened to a wide range of speakers other than whatever's in Best Buy and Circuit City. There ARE however a few who have and still prefer Bose, to which I say live and let live. |
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Silver Member Username: KanoBC Canada Post Number: 910 Registered: Oct-04 | Sickest part is many Bose buyers consult their friends for the best stereo system. Answer : Bose, that's some fine marketing. |
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Silver Member Username: BvanCape Town, Copenhagen,... Post Number: 126 Registered: Jun-05 | that audioholics is a strange place. i visit there sometimes. i like there editorial reviews, on equipment and music, but the two head honchos gene and clint do seem to be of the opinion that all cd players and amps sound the same. just today i was reading editor gene lauging at the suggestion that a $1600 musical fidelity cd player would sound better than a $250 cambride cd player. everyone else seems to fall into line. any dissent is promplty squashed by the brandishing of double-blind abx results. it is a good website if youre looking for mid-fi HT, but if music is your thing ecoustics is definitely the place! b. |