NAD 352 too loud
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New member Username: RuvePost Number: 7 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi, All I have NAD C352 for a couple of months. It is a great amp with fast clean sound. Now my major complaint (and my wife's) is that it is too loud! We normally listen to it at low volume in the evenings, but the volume knob is too sensitive to the slightest turning. We have found this quite annoying. Can you suggest a way to get wider adjustment range at low volume? Thanks!  |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8117 Registered: May-04 | What type of speakers are you using with the amplifier? Do you know the sensitivity specification for these speakers? How many inputs are you using? |
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New member Username: NoutPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | I think it is the amps cd input sensitivity, with most amps it is way too sensitive. Does your cd player have a digital volume control? This way you can lower the signal, but it might affect the sound quality, a slight loss in dynamics, although I never experienced any decrease in dynamics (I also use my cd players digital volume to lower the signal as well, mostly with classical cd's) |
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New member Username: RuvePost Number: 8 Registered: Mar-06 | I use NAD 542 CDP and KEF Coda 9.2 speakers. The Codas are rated 91 dB at 6 ohms. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8119 Registered: May-04 | As Nout suggests, the input voltage into your amplifier is probably rather high. Since voltage input is relative to voltage output, the higher the input voltage crossing the volume control, the higher the volume level at any setting. Add to this the relatively high input sensitivity of your speakers and where a lower efficiency speaker matched with a lower input voltage from the CD player would give you more room to maneuver on the volume control, the net effect is as if you were listening at several times the volume/power of that "other" speaker. So you have somewhat compounded the problem with poor system matching in the volume setting department. Finally, all volume controls are not equal in design. Some controls are designed to pass more voltage at the lower settings while others have less effect at the low settings and will give a more even adjustment across the entire range of the control. You have several options. The first is to determine whether you have any control over the output voltage of the CD player. Is there a variable output on your unit? Is CD your only source? Do you have enough technical skills to wire a potentiometer in line, or in place of your current volume control, or would you require a technician to do the work? If you need a tech, do you know of one that could possibly to the service job? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8120 Registered: May-04 | Also, how attached are you to these speakers? |
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New member Username: RuvePost Number: 10 Registered: Mar-06 | Thank you, Jan, for your detailed answer. I tried a low-power amplifier yesterday and the result is much better control of volume plus more musicality. Any thoughts? |
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Bronze Member Username: RuvePost Number: 11 Registered: Mar-06 | If I connect CDP directly to the "main-in" of NAD amp, will the volume control still work? I guess the volume control only applies to the pre-amp section. Correct? BTW, there is no volume control on the CDP. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 356 Registered: Mar-04 | The problem lies with the volume pot and the remote. If you adjust the volume manually you'll be able to set the correct volume (only just) but the remote jumps the dial too much and the result is a higher volume. The C372 has a variable output pre-amp2 which allows you to make adjustments but sadly your C352 doesn't. There is no way around this other than having an audio electrician put a higher resistance volume pot in the amp. I've seen it many times and it has nothing to do with your speakers or cd player. I've wired some real hungry speakers to a Nad amp before and still had the loud volume problem. I guess Nad expect all their customers to listen at medium to loud volumes. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 357 Registered: Mar-04 | Yes, the volume control only affects the preamp. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8139 Registered: May-04 | To be specific, the volume control pot affects the voltage going into the pre amp section. Once again input voltage is relative to output voltage. Since there is less voltage going into the pre amp, it outputs less voltage to the power amp. Therefore the volume control affects both sections of an integrated amplifier. As I see it you have several options. I have no idea abouot how the remote functions on this amplifier so I will let Sun King's suggestion stand for you to experiment with. My choices would be one of the following; a lower sensitivity speaker, padding down the voltage somewhere along the amplification chain or using a different volume control. Going from 91dB to about 86dB sensitivity in your speakers will give you some extra room on the volume control. Take your amp to a dealer's showroom on a quiet afternoon and ask for a demonstration of how much allowance a lower efficiency speaker will make. You can pad down the voltage at any point before the input to the power amp section. You can do this by inserting padding resistors somewhere in the system or by altering the feedback loop of the amplifier. Or, you can replace or bypass the existing volume control and substitute a potentiometer (I would suggest staying with the same resistance of the stock volume control) with a linear taper control rather than the audio taper of your current volume control. This will increase the range where the volume control affects the overall level and will give you more useable and predictable changes on the control. All of these require some cost and, in the latter two cases, some degree of technical skill. A technician will probably perform the work if the amplifier is out of warranty. There are a few other options but they will negatively affect the way your amplifier operates and will alter the sound of the system to some extent. Do any of these options appeal to you? |
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Bronze Member Username: RuvePost Number: 14 Registered: Mar-06 | Hi, Jan. Thanks for your very detailed suggestions. As Sun said, the volume works nicely when I manually adjust it. Now here comes up another question: at the equally low volume, NAD 352 does not sound as warm/appealing/comfortable as the low-power amp (25W X 2). My NAD sounds too analytical, which makes it difficult to fall asleep with the music on. |
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Silver Member Username: Sun_kingLeeds, West Yorkshire UK Post Number: 359 Registered: Mar-04 | Ruve, it sounds like the wrong amp for you. We've all made purchase mistakes so if you listen predominantly at low volumes I'd say get something else. The C352 is a very popular amp so you should have no bother selling it on for reasonable money. Shame though. |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8143 Registered: May-04 | Ruve - I guess I missed the question back there. What twenty five watt amplifier are you referring to? |
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Bronze Member Username: RuvePost Number: 19 Registered: Mar-06 | Jan, I tried NAD 3020, an very old model. Although I cannot say it is overall better than my NAD 352, there is something there that reminds me of the 80's when tape predominated the youth market. It is less unfatiguing and more welcoming. But both do sound similar to each other. I wonder if NAD has made ANY progress in its design. Ridiculously, NAD 3020 is a pure class B amp, which by distortion stanstand is inferior to class A or AB. |
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Bronze Member Username: RuvePost Number: 20 Registered: Mar-06 | Sorry I meant less fatiguing. Is this described as warmth? |
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Gold Member Username: Jan_b_vigneDallas, TX Post Number: 8158 Registered: May-04 | Terminology gets mixed together and one thing means another but to a lesser or greater extent. NAD has made some progress since the 1980's. But if a piece of equipment is considered "musical" it should sound, more or less, how you remember live music to sound. In general things have become more emphatic in the upper range which can become fatiguing when several pieces with the same characteristics are combined just because each one is a decent piece of equipment. It comes down to intelligent system matching which, in my opinion, is playing up the strengths of each piece and not trying to place a BandAid on the amplifier by buying a speaker that does the opposite. This is where a good dealer can be indispensible. |
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Bronze Member Username: RavbainsMelbourneAustralia Post Number: 43 Registered: Mar-06 | Maybe an in-line RCA attenuator could be a simple solution to this problem. See link below: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0803/rothwell.htm cheers Rav |
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New member Username: NoutPost Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | That's very nice indeed, although this wasn't exactly the problem for the topic starter, Ruve. Ruve Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 01:43 am: As Sun said, the volume works nicely when I manually adjust it. and later: Now here comes up another question: at the equally low volume, NAD 352 does not sound as warm/appealing/comfortable as the low-power amp (25W X 2). My NAD sounds too analytical, which makes it difficult to fall asleep with the music on. He didn't like the amp to begin with. But thanks for the link anyway, if my cd player didn't have a digital volume to compensate the high voltage I would certainly give the RCA attenuator a try, it isn't that expensive also. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1331 Registered: Sep-04 | Actually I thought Ravinder was bang on the money. The Rothwell attenuators are exactly what's needed in this case to allow the amp to work in the meat of its operating envelope and allow Ruve to manage volume more easily. The Rothwells have been reviewed favourably in many places so this seems the most sensible solution for Ruve to me. Of course if Ruve also had complaints about a tuner having the same problem as well, he'd need attenuators for that as well, so it's not an ideal solution. Ruve, the latest NAD amps are modelled very much on the original design of the 3020. You may have seen things like the 320BEE? Well, the BEE stands for the initials of the original designer of the 3020 who was asked to help in the design of the latest amps - hence the similarity in presentation that you noted. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: RuvePost Number: 33 Registered: Mar-06 | Thank you, Frank and everbody else, for your pertinent answers. Is NAD C352 also modelled on NAD 3020? How similar is NAD 352 to 320BEE? Is BEE still working for NAD group? |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1337 Registered: Sep-04 | I believe the 352 is based on many of the same principles and includes some of their patented technology such as NAD's PowerDrive which is a direct result of BEE's work. However, whether BEE was involved in the design I could not say. Regards, Frank. |
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Bronze Member Username: MusicluvrPost Number: 59 Registered: Apr-05 | "Of course if Ruve also had complaints about a tuner having the same problem as well, he'd need attenuators for that as well, so it's not an ideal solution." Instead of using the attenuators between the CD player and pre-in, use them between the pre-out and amp-in. The attenuators would then affect all of the input sources. |
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Gold Member Username: Frank_abelaBerkshire UK Post Number: 1339 Registered: Sep-04 | That would cost another interconnect of course, a short one. Regards, Frank. |
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