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New member Username: Excetara2Post Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | I am looking at either buying the NAD T773 or the DENON 3805. I know the features of each. I am wondering which sounds better for music. Anyones experience with either of these. Thanks a lot. -Jeff |
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Silver Member Username: My_rantzAustralia Post Number: 454 Registered: Nov-05 | NAD |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 725 Registered: Dec-03 | As a former owner of a Denon 3803 (substantially the same Denon receiver), I recommend the NAD. I replaced my 3803 with an NAD T753, and I have been very satisfied. The NAD in particular is MUCH better with music and jsut as good with HT. |
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Gold Member Username: Project6Post Number: 7265 Registered: Dec-03 | I currently have a NAD T773 and it is a very musical receiver. I vote for the NAD. |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 898 Registered: Apr-05 | Ok I'll be the dissenting vote. Denon. I still don't like all I hear about the hissing on the NAD's. You may however want to opt down to a 2807. |
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New member Username: Excetara2Post Number: 3 Registered: Mar-06 | Another question I have thought about doing OUTLAW seperates instead of the NAD? Anyone know anything about OUTLAW. WIll this sound better than the NAD? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 730 Registered: Dec-03 | Stof: Have you even heard an NAD receiver? I can understand your reluctance given some posts on this forum, but you really have to find out for yourself. Don't just bash based upon rumors and innuendo. Besides, I consider the Denon to be so "un-musical", I would do without if I wanted a receiver for music before I bought Denon again. If all someone wanted was HT, then the Denon would be good enough, albeit somewhat pricey. If you need an alternative to NAD for music, I suggest the Marantz SR7500 (not as good as the NAD for music, IMO, but pretty close), or better still, Outlaw separates (770/7125 combo, for example). |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 899 Registered: Apr-05 | Hawk I have heard the NAD receivers. There is no doubt that they are very musical, but then again I have not had them for a very long period of time. I do not bash based on rumers. (though I would hardly call what I did bashing, you should see me talk about Bose) All you have to do is do a search on NAD and hissing on this forum to realize how many people, including Art Kyle, have ended up trading their T models for something else because of this issue. It is very frustrating that a good company like NAD is not able to resolve this. I would definitly recommend their stereo receivers just not their T's. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 733 Registered: Dec-03 | LOL!!! We can certainly agree on the Bose! I don't think my wife will ever get over seeing the horror on my face when she suggested we get Bose speakers. You know, I see the same posts you do and I do not hear any hiss with my T753. A dealer friend of mine has suggested that hiss may in fact be related to the poor quality of electrical power some people have--he is in downtown Denver and the power there is really poor, he tells me. I know in my case, we have a very nice major brand TV that would go absolutely crazy everytime my next door neighbor (who is an aeroautical engineer and self trained carpenter in his spare time) revs up his table saw. I finally invested in a Monster Power HTS3500 power conditioner, which seems to have solved the problem. Whether this is the source of hiss for some people, I don't know, but it might make some sense out of these reports. It does appear my TV is more sensitive to electrical noise than the other sets in our house, but it doesn't make it a bad set--not at all. |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 902 Registered: Apr-05 | I seem to recall one user who did buy a power conditioner and it did not help. I also recall another post where someone moved to England and with the conversion to 220v 50hz cycle the humming stopped. So who knows. Having monitored this site for almost a year, I don't know of any other receiver group that is so universally loved and hated by the same owners at the same time. |
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New member Username: JawPost Number: 1 Registered: Mar-06 | When it comes to NAD AVR's, you are sitting on a three-legged stool and one of the legs is broken. Your pro-NADmania views have not changed. Would respectfully suggest you take a hand count of reported problems in the archives. Your views nor mine are not all-inclusive. Your dealer friend says this and this dealer reports that: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/0510/172_print.html (stored in the archives). NAD's market share is non-existent; it is a tiny company. What kind of financial resources does a company of this size generate for R&D, production and QC? Lenbrook Int. is a fiercely private operation; they release little information on NAD, their divisions or their finances. What they do have is a glossy web page devoid of any specific information. Maybe, a Canadian D&B report would provide some true insight into this mystery Company. As Butch and Sundance said, "Who are those guys?". This service center reports this: http://www.stereorepair.net/NAD.htm (stored in the archives). The power conditioner panacea was broached long ago and not exactly received as an acceptable or viable, let alone inexpensive, solution to NAD's woes. As Tommy Lasorda said, "you can look it up" - in the archives. There is no ongoing campaign to cast unfounded innuendoes at NAD and "get" NAD - as Hillary grumbled about the conservative right being after her husband. What does exist is a wealth of information on NAD reported problems in the archives. That's where the true picture and balance of reported problems, concerns and opinions exist. Suggest you look them up. |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 907 Registered: Apr-05 | That's funny how they list out exactly what's wrong. I have never seen that before. It's great to see an honest business. Most of the stores charge you the $75 to "look at it" when they know full well what's going on when they see you walking in. They don't say much about the T models specifically though. |
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Bronze Member Username: Stephen_mPost Number: 13 Registered: Aug-05 | I'd like to point out, though, that all the models listed by that service center are long out of production. |
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New member Username: JawPost Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | Yes, you're right; no direct reference to current models or T Series: "Most NAD receivers, amplifiers, preamps and integrated amplifiers are well designed but have developed soldering defects over time due to rather thin circuit boards and poor quality soldering. ALL RECEIVERS AND AMPLIFIERS: NAD used some rather poor quality caps in most of the product line. These can be upgraded to higher quality caps for an additional 20-40.00 depending on model and will increase the sound quality quite a bit. Please contact us for specific details". _________________________________________________ They do, specifically, cite all ALL RECEIVERS AND AMPLIFIERS which to me meant current models or otherwise; plus, - Please contact us for specific details. So, I did. Here is a cut and paste from my earlier post and email correspondence with the repair center - you guessed it, stored in the Ecoustics archives: >>From: James Wood uptonow@charter.net Date: Thursday, July 07, 2005 3:10 PM To: info@stereorepair.net <info@stereorepair.net Subject: NAD T752 Receiver - Shuts Down - Please advise Sir, Saw your web page and am impressed; maybe you can help: My T752, 32 months old, shuts down at high volume with all 5 channels running. When unplugged and sitting for a day or so, can turn the unit back on and run 2 channels at low/medium volume; at high volume it shuts down again. The fan now kicks on after about 2 minutes and the unit runs hot; obviously would guess some kind of heat overload. Prior to the current shutdown situation, a rear channel would close down on occasion, but always turn back on. Well that's it. Can you help, fix it, cost? Please respond and Thanks, Jim Wood Wisconsin (I can pay you in beer) PS: Question - On a comparative basis, how would you rate the Quality Control/Quality Assurance on the build of NAD audio/video receivers versus the other brands? How good/bad is the NAD QC? Thanks.<< The audio repair shop's response- >>From: stereorepair@optonline.net <stereorepair@optonline.net> Date: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:26 PM To: James Wood <uptonow@charter.net> Subject: Re: NAD T752 Receiver - Shuts Down - Please advise This is usually caused by cracked solder connections at the output transistor/pc board junction. Cost of repair is 125.00, parts and labor. QC has always been an issue with NAD. Build quality has never been up to design (which is quite good). After a repair that includes a through resoldering these perform well.<< _________________________________________________ The same reference to solder defects and printed circuit boards. Based on this, it is also problematic to the T series and current models. |
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Bronze Member Username: JethroLansing, Mi Post Number: 56 Registered: Jan-06 | i have two NAD amps 2100 and the preamp 1000. i bought em when i was younger and bridged each 2100 to the paradigm 11se mk2's which was sweet. only reason i bring this up is cause i got a few beers in me and i thought it was kinda funny when i was younger cause i had a pair of nads : ) other thing is, careful with NAD, one of em the right channel is bushed and the other the power supply is dead completely. now nad is under different ownership but still has an unreliability factor for a reason that i don't know. why the hell is NAD unreliable??? they are committing suicide... pisses me off good company with a good name;; NAD |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3760 Registered: Mar-05 | JAW, great links, very enlightening. Damn I wish I could find a repair shop like that here in Houston! |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 911 Registered: Apr-05 | Jaw there was another thread where we discussed design vs. manufacturing. Since it is safe to assume that the NAD manufacturing or at least the circuit board are being done overseas as most others do, I think it just points to them using a bad or a series of bad manufacturing outsource. |
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New member Username: Harry_vPost Number: 1 Registered: Apr-06 | I have Monitor Audio speakers. Silver 9's in the front and Silver 12 at the center and ASW 210 powered sub woofer. I was driving these with Denon-AVR 3600 for the last 5 years. It was ok. But I am looking for a better Reciver like NAD 773. I could use some advise. I am looking for crisp, clean and clear sound. Need some help |
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Silver Member Username: ChitownPost Number: 960 Registered: Apr-05 | If after reading this thread and others out there about the build quality of the NAD receiver lines and you don't mind taking a gamble then go with NAD, otherwise you may want to stay with Denon or go with Marantz, Rotel or Outlaw. |
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Bronze Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 47 Registered: Mar-06 | If you have the Monitor Audio speakers...get the NAD. I can't stress this enough :-) |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 232 Registered: Dec-03 | JAW, go to the home link and this link has series of problems for almost every brand. Once again, you are simply focusing on one brand here. Denon: "We repair all DENON audio products, including professional and DJ equipment. Until Denon discontinued their warranty program in favor of factory service we were providing Denon warranty service since 1986. We still have access to all parts that are currently stocked and repair many Denon products, the most popular being the receiver / integrated amplifier line from the 80's-90'. Usual repairs run from 100-125, for problems such as "dead unit" "in-protect""sound cuts in and out", etc. Service on these units is generally limited to repair, they were made to a fairly high standard with good quality parts and do not benefit from any extensive upgrade or modifications. The old CD player line DCD-10xx through DCD-35xx were high quality units and can still be repaired for a fraction of what a new high -end CD player would cost. The power amp series of POA 1000- to 8000 were very good power amps, but are subject to bad solder connections and relay problems As the DENON line is quite large, please contact us with your specific model and questions." ARCAM: "Our most common Arcam repair items are the ALPHA series of CD player. They develop a problem of skipping and mistracking CD's. The solution is replacement of the laser pickup and CD drive motor. In addition we add some vibration damping material to the chassis of the unit. As the same transport is used in the entire series the price for all units is 150.00, parts and labor. Arcam integrated amplifiers and preamps are of good sonic quality but have problems with build quality. Switches become unsoldered from PC boards, bad connections. Usually these only need resoldering and some power supply repair. Arcam power amps are known for bad solder connections where the output devices break away from the circuit board. Usually resoldering cures most problems with these items." How about being fair instead of just pointing out problems listed with one line? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2332 Registered: Dec-04 | I really think that the Nad problems go deeper then 'one line'. The entire series is problematic, and always will be. And Lenbrook got the company for a song for that very reason. Nad was already on the ropes, and the T series put them out before the problem was recognized, although an engineer or two might have had to sign off with relutance. Nad still does good stuff, just not AVR's. Go ahead and bash me, but I get info offa the web, same as you. And Linbrook ain't lyin' when I call. |
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New member Username: JawPost Number: 7 Registered: Mar-06 | Johnathan, I've butted heads with you Hawk, Johnny (and quite a few other NAD-Nuts) over the past 2 years. In my opinion, this was a self-serving proNAD board with questionable advice on providing readers with a balanced view of QC problems affecting NAD. The pendulum has swung, hasn't it? So there is no doubt on my position and because some people have short memory, let's cut to the chase. Here is my post from 2 years ago on NAD: >>Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Et tu NAD, you have Quality Control problems. MR, you have spearheaded a post often considered by this writer - and told it like it is. Kudos to you. This board can be qualified as follows: 1)"All manufacturers have faulty units". Singularly, this board screams a myriad of problems. What does it take to acknowledge the obvious NAD headaches? Ye of little faith, check out the reviews on Audioreview.com or any other audio board for further conviction on NAD's incompetence. True, no industry reports are available, by any relative logic it is apparent that NAD exceeds the limits of acceptable standards. 2) "It must be your set-up". We are into the second decade of ubiquitous home PC ownership; most have upgraded everything from RAM to drives plus software literacy. As we are not congenital electronic dysfunctionals, setting up a home theatre rig without Hiss/Hum is not usually a monumental grasp. It's not your imagination, the problem is NAD not the operator. 3)"My dealer said NAD has no more problems than any other receiver." When shopping for my NAD receiver, a respected and prominent dealer responded with email, "stay away from the T752 and T742, too many problems." 3)"Replacements, replacements for replacements, hiss, hum, channel drop-outs, DOA's, display malfunctions." Self-condemning, no comment. 4)"NAD has exhibited excellent service support". Hallelujah, in light of #1,#2,#3. So, what do I own, NAD, of course. Really, had no choice because the sound framework is so superior for the money. However, the smug attitude that my NAD is running OK is a disservice to newbies or those on a stretched budget (remember, we were all there at one time) that can ill afford an economic loss or lack of an objective opinion on NAD's quality. My sense, be wary of NAD's quality and consider the many other options if QC/QA is an issue. "NAD's are the best of times and the worst of times".<< Two years later and mounds of problems have piled up regarding NAD. Based on my post of 2 years ago, I must be Nostradamus or you live in the proverbial information vacuum. Johnathan, regarding your comments, stereorepair ripped a page worth of NAD products, not for design, but for quality control. If you want to nit pick, Denon and Arcam got 3 paragraphs, whatever; you should have picked another brand to make a point or better yet, read - the - Ecoustics archives, to see how this coincides with the reported complaints about NAD. You guys have made the same flimsy excuses for 2 years now We know Lenbrook bought NAD off the scrap heap. I have reported their history too many times to the boredom of many; you apparently must have missed it: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/0510/172_print.html Hawk, thanks, for your enlightening history on NAD, rubbing elbows with your dealers; as you can see, you are not the singular knowledge authority. Your trite power conditioner suggestion was irrelevant because it was already attempted and ineffective. Apparently, you have short memory on what has already been reported by others. PSB, gee, thanks for enlightening me. As you are the authority on NAD/Lenbrook, tell me more about them: http://www.lenbrook.com/pdf/Lenbrook_Profile_2005.pdf They are apparently a self proclaimed private, "Mid-Sized" company and own NAD/PSB plus are the marketing agents involved in distribution and brokering a bunch of other stuff (including KEF)? Tell me, what is their cash flow and debt position, credit obligations and sales revenue? It must be awfully good to pop for a whopping $5MM on NAD whom apparently nobody else wanted; a bidding war would have at least driven the price to an unheard of $6MM for such a premium prize. Why is this even relevant? Because NAD has QC issues that have not been resolved; it takes a financial position for a company to do so; anybody considering NAD should know what their parent Company is all about and who they're buying from. So, Hawk, tell me more. Let's see, after blindly promoting NAD for 2 years, your precious NAD crapped out on you. No kidding , so did mine along with all the other sorry NAD owners. Seldom, if ever, did you even acknowledge the other guy's problems while, instead, constantly chiming in and advocating NAD. That's not only inconsiderate but also rude. Different story when it happens to you, huh. That's about 2 years worth of BS; -- BS = Bum Steers on NAD. With all the defense of NAD products, how's their market share: http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/ir/presentations/2005/document/20051117_en.pdf NAD has none -- pages 11,12,13,14. Contrary to Lenbrook, D&M is a company with a Vision, Marketing Plan, proud disclosure and finanancail resolve. This company, unlike Lenbrook I think, has created a monster in a short period of existence. They recently acquired Boston Acoustics and legendary Snell- ever hear of them or maybe McIntosh whom is another of their nameplates. Their receiver/amplifier market share is not too bad either. If you have any relevant information to embellish NAD's past, present and future, I'd be happy to hear it. Opinions are important when there's some sense to them. To me, we're all here to learn something that helps make our decisions better and easier. |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 233 Registered: Dec-03 | JAW, this was never a self-serving NAD love fest. I recall butting heads with you previously and the attitude I see on these Ecoustics boards are exactly the reason I ended up leaving these boards and going elsewhere. I originally came three years ago for help because I didn't know anything about home theater. After reading and asking questions, I realized that Hawk, Johnny, John A, and the RealEliteFan were giving great information. Hawk is exactly right when he states that most noobies never hear of the higher brands in that I had never heard of NAD before. I did what most noobies do which is to head over to Circuit City and Best Buy and be limited to brands there. After taking some of them home (Onkyo and HK), I realized that something was missing. I then started trying boutique stores and heard different things: Pioneer Elite, Marantz, Rotel among others. Then I found a store where the owner sold Yamaha and NAD and loved music. I was able to listen to different equipment and realized I loved the NAD sound. I have never trashed any other brand on these boards. I have only offered my experience with equipment. Yet I see lots of you who come here acting like you have heard everything and taking particular pride in trashing certain brands. NAD has taken the brunt of it in receivers. The speaker board is almost unreadable as certain posters have self-appointed themselves as experts and leap at every single post. I do not blindly promote NAD as I do not promote any brand. If someone asks an opinion about NAD, I give them my experience and that is all. It is my experience, that as soon as anyone gives their opinion here about NAD, there are the same old vultures who swoop down bashing the brand. Its tiresome and obviously either some kind of ploy or strange disease. I don't give a crap about market share. At the point where market share proves what is a good product or not as opposed to what products are marketed more commercially, then you'll see me with nothing but Sony equipment. NAD is really good mid-fi equipment that gives you a taste of high end sound for mid-fi price and that is all. All I ask is for fairness. But apparently that is too much to ask for. |
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New member Username: JawPost Number: 8 Registered: Mar-06 | It's your choice not to tolerate the banter of opposing views. Staying away, that's your call. Somehow, however, you were able to find your way all the way back just to pipe up and defend your own pet peeves. I save that kind of loyalty for more important things than an audio brand. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2355 Registered: Dec-04 | How is it that Nad, being such a minor player in the market, has not expanded on such a quality name. How has Nad been bought out so cheaply? How has Nad been shopped around like a cheap hoocker, available to the highest bidder curbside? They suck. The avr's suck. Buy something else. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2356 Registered: Dec-04 | If indeed Nad has such a low percentile, why are there so many complaints registered? This may be a little hole in the wall forum, but percenages dont lie! You can argue with me, but you can't argue with figgurs |
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Silver Member Username: JonmoonPost Number: 234 Registered: Dec-03 | This must be what it is like when the trolls become in charge of the forums. |
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New member Username: JawPost Number: 9 Registered: Mar-06 | I need your 2 cents like I need AIDS. |
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Gold Member Username: NuckPost Number: 2373 Registered: Dec-04 | Then carry on, folks, I shall read only on this one. |
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New member Username: JawPost Number: 10 Registered: Mar-06 | Nuck, I'll manage my own dirty laudry. |