MR - Nuck - Michael W - et al - hope your TIMs are doing well by you! I've spent a long day on-and-off'ing my TIM - with pretty consistent results. Stan Getz, Modern Jazz Quartet, Jim Hall, and a raft of various classical CDs/SACDs - with the following results. Very early CDs - those produced before the mid-90s - benefit from the TIM with warmer sound and a lessening of the "glare" that Art has talked about. Later CDs and most SACDs open up with more 3-D quality, sometimes setting musicians right out in the room! Rather astonishing. Without the TIM - oh, the Oppo still sings, but there is still a certain "construction" in the sound. Hard to explain. Bottom line - I want/hope/need to hear from those to whom I sent TIMs. Do you hear what I hear? Or not. . . Respectfully. . .LarryR
Larry, I hear what you are hearing but would describe my experience as less profound. Keep in mind that I am still progressing through my testing of the TIM and that I momentarily am down a CDP.
I am using mainly my reference material to test with and will throw some older CDs into the fray later. I am also almost solely comparing the TIM to the blank Memorex Black CDR as I know the profound affect it has had on my music. I find the competition, if I may call it that, interesting between the TIM and the Memorex. After several rounds of a song on each across several songs I find it comes down to taste as both deliver the goods on bringing additional presence to the listening experience. The Memorex produces more audible embellishments to me, the TIM seems to provide for more accuracy with not the same level of embellishment to the music.
I have gone back and forth on a couple of different songs as to whether I thought I liked one or the other better. I also found a couple of CDs, one John Lee Hooker and one Dire Straits where I could not distinguish any realized audible differences with just playing the CD without anything over it as compared to playing it with the Memorex or TIM on top of it. But then this happened. I was playing the Brothers in Arms remastered CD doing the a/b/c demoing when I suddenly decided "Screw it, I am just going to play this whole CD and enjoy it as it is sounding really good right now." This occurred with the TIM in place.
I have detected that glitches in the recording are diminished with the TIM over the Memorex and that the player initializes quicker on a few of the CDs with the TIM employed than with the Memorex employed.
One thing that I read here is that y'all are referencing more pop or jazz-oriented CDs than I am. While I am NOT about to judge any music genre, I must comment that classical music, with its more acoustic output in terms of instrumentation, has a broader scope of overtones than music coming from such things as amplified guitars and drums. With that in mind - perhaps - MAYBE - the TIM makes more of a difference because it "might" directly affect the overtones and their reproduction in a digital-to-analog environment. I don't know - but when I read Michael W's comments about the black disc I go back to my own experiments with the TIMS. One I have left in un-changed condition - the second one has a layer of black plastic paint on the top side - the side away from the playing CD. Perhaps that disc would come closer to Michael W's use of the black CD in his experiments? I have yet to hear much of a difference - but am still in the midst of a massive test run, so the jury is far from out on this. And maybe, after all, Michael and his cohort Peter Belt have it right - that all this only changes US, the listener, and not the CDs or the other kit at all. It's the same. Pardon me whilst I take a pic of the strange circular object that just landed in our back yard. GRIN
Larry, I had acoustical instruments playing along with the electric instruments but I had not made significant comparisons using orchestral beyond piano. I will be sure to include those in future posts, er, once of course I have my CDP back. Spinning some vinyl tonight, Platoon soundtrack and "Collection - Alice Cooper" from Warner Bros. 1982. I have not deployed the TIM for this.
I did rip Yellow Submarine with and without the TIM and I am able to hear a slight yet positive variance on the tracks with the TIM employed. Nothing to shout from roof-tops in terms of difference. Again, the remastering of the Beatles CD collection is outstanding to begin with so this may be another case of not much to improve upon.
I fully understand, Mike - I've found that, with my very best-quality SACDs, there is essentially no difference with and without the TIM. But I have so many Redbook CDs that I like that - well - every improvement in their sound quality helps! Frankly, I'm still blown away by the improvements in sonics that the new Oppo makes - without any other modifications. So, is the TIM "superfluous?" Ummm. . . not really, especially with "reg-lar" CDs. Waiting for Nuck's reaction to all this. . . Respectfully. . .LarryR
I managed to try a few tracks yesterday afternoon. Cassandra Wilson, Boz Scaggs, David Bowie, The Stones and Van Morrison. The Morrison, Scaggs and Wilson tracks seemed a tad more musical - especially Cassandra Wilson. Funnily enough, that one has more acoustic instruments playing. Mrs R thought it (Wilson) was better without the TIM, but what does she know - with the flu and and being blonde and all.
I hope to do more testing with some jazz cd's included later and over the next few days. At present I'm finding it difficult explaining the difference, it may be more micro detail, but there is something happening and I think it will really take some thorough listening sessions. Somehow chopping and changing tracks can get the old brain a bit addled methinks.
Well, consider this, MR - you're spinning the discs on a player that's already light years ahead of most (the Oppo excepted, natch. GRIN) players on the market. So perhaps with all the finer electronics in your kit the TIM has less impact than it does on a "lesser" setup??? As in - you can only soup up a car so far - then it becomes an airplane. Respect-filled. . . .LarryR
No, no, no. I think M.R. inarticulated in a sense very well. This is similar to my experience with the remastered Dire Straits' Brother in Arms CD I spoke to earlier. It all seemed so very much ado about nothing but somewhere there I found I just had to stop working at it and just listen to the entire CD with the TIM in place.
I am convinced this thing does something to preserve the accuracy of the CD as it is read by the player in use. The best or better CDs the less it needs to do perhaps.
Funniest thing is that I used my CD player exclusively the past couple of months as I tweaked my kit and room to smithereens, upgrading power conditioner, Schumann resonance, speaker spikes, and Geoff Kait stuff.
Spinning vinyl with the CDP on the mend and I am loving it. From Otis Redding's vocal emphasis to the clean tunes of Alice Cooper I am truly enjoying my system at a new level. Why do we play CDs again?
Thanks for the :<) Mike! I need that after a day of taking care of my very sick wife. SIGH. Anyway - ye need not be of concern over things technical. Heck, I even almost understand them . . .on alternate days. GRIN And we play CDs because we spent a lot of money on them and have to "enjoy" them somehow! Hurry with those tests, NUCK! Respectfully. . .LarryR
Stu, Sound Organisation only knows what everyone else knows is that Rega will offer a DAC in the future. No product or pricing information has been made available to the dealers by Rega as of this time.
Another question I asked while there with my Saturn, "Warranty?"
You didn't know about the 3 yr warranty Mike? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Still haven't had much of a chance to test the TIM. Like larry, my wife hasn't been well, though she's much better today, and her mother is having health issues as well.
The few I listened to yesterday were all with the mat in place and I thoroughly enjoyed the music. My problem, is that I'm still getting accustomed to our gear with the fabulous preamp in place, so the music sounds so darn excellent anyway.
However I believe I am in agreeance with you both as far as modern, very well mastered cd's go, the difference with the mat is either zero or practically negligable on some of these I've tried. I believe, though yet to be convinced 100%, that other factors come into play such as the age and type of the recording, the disc condition, the type of music/instruments and finally, the opacity of the cd label. The thing is, I've heard something enhance the musicality and take me even deeper into the music on some tracks I've played.
Give me a week or so to come up with some conclusions about the TIM. My brother, who claims highly sensitive hearing (despite slight deafness in one ear and tinnitus) is visiting the coast and it will be interesting testing the mat on him.
I can say for now, it is certainly not a failure. Thanks again Larry.
M.R. - points all well taken, sir. I went into this nutzy endeavor thinking that it was just that: nutzy. But when I did hear differences on "most" CDs/SACDs I thought my time/money wasn't totally wasted. But now a second question rears its ugly head: what if Mike W is also right about sonic changes using a blank, black CD? As my Oppo will not take a second CD in the slot, I went to "Plan B." sprayed the top side of a Mat with black plastic spray and, well, played around with it. Strange, but I thought there was a difference between that and the "regular" mat. OK - my psychiatrist is on vacation. GRIN I'm so intrigued by this that I'm sending a painted mat to Mike W for his investigation. It's one of my last Mats, so I can't send one to ev-body. Sorry. Mike - I need your experimenting-powers on this - you should get your mat the first of next week. Let us all know. . . . Respectfully. . .LarryR
I have found some differences in cd playback with the TIM, and anything that I did get was good!
On older 80's cd's, with poor recordings (David Bowie, Rush), the compression or clip on the recordings have been diminished. Shrillness and sibilance seen lessened, without a sacrifice in other areas, namely accuracy in the highs.
Again, I have only my collection of mostly rock stuff to play with, and I can appreciate that chamber or orchestral selections, with their quieter passages would take advantage of the TIM more completely.
I am using the TIM for ripping all my cd's, going through about 10 a day, I suppose.
When I make a comparison that is very interesting, I will post that right off, plus any others. If an improvement is found on a common recording, then we might look for the same resulats between us.
Thanks again, Lar. I continue.
Whan Mike gets his balls back, see how the painted mat works...
Nuck: Good report, sir! I've found that the Mat works wonders with some discs, and does little for others. SIGH. One never knows, do one? Mike W - your disc is in the mail, but won't leave Swampville until noon tomorrow. You see - SIGH - I live in the "poor" area of Collier County, State of Flawed-duh. Zip 34119. Now, if I were to move about 15 miles to zip 34110 - the "rich" area, I would have two more Postal trucks a day, and thus the disc would have gone out this afternoon. Who says money can't buy happiness?????? Anyway - the zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz goes on. Respectfully. . .Larry the Lounge Lizard
I think I will give Sound Organisation a call tomorrow for a status on my Saturn. If it fails to come back by Saturday I will not be pleased as I have a friend coming by for a demo or two. Short of that I will use all TIMs as Nuck is in ripping and comparing. Still running vinyl in the meantime.
Sound Organisation is a first class distributor. They emailed me this morning to come get my Saturn. They replaced the transport and ran it for two days then contacted me to come pick it up. I had it before 11:30 AM. I also got a bit of a tour of their facility. Simple but laid out to perfection. They have one larger room which is both a game room and a HT room nicely set apart from one another. There was a second smaller room in back dedicated to 2 channel. That is where I met the Rega Isis. They had one running at moderately quiet levels outputing from Dali Ikon 5 floorstanding speakers. The Isis is a beautiful piece of machinery. I will have to get an extended audition at Holm Audio the next time I am in Chicago. Still outside of anything I would do cost wise.
The Saturn is doing its thing quite nicely tonight.
Back to the non-painted TIM. I found an older Gershwin CD which I spun through to find a song suitable for some A/B tests with and without the TIM. I did not use the blank Memorex black CD for these tests.
Hands down the TIM improved dynamics, attack, decay, and the flow of the music overall. The musical improvement was quite palpable. Although appearing precise to me without the TIM in place, the music went from being merely present, to engaging with the TIM employed.
Michael W - glad you got your "baby" back in the proper number of pieces, sir! Also glad to hear about your continuing TIM experiments. I've been doing a major shuffle dance around here for a couple of days now - and have come to the conclusion that the Mat Does make a difference - much more so on older CDs than on new ones - especially the SACDs. The black-painted Mat went out to you today - and I'll be interested to hear what you hear. Without really wanting to "color" your perceptions - I found that the black coating actually "blurred" the sound images a bit - and I preferred the non-painted one. But on your equipment it might sound entirely different. I cannot say that the TIM is a universal sonics enhancer - it varies, even between two same-label companies. I nearly went crazy today, working with two Chandos CDs - both of piano concertos by my favorite pianist, Howard Shelley. One CD sounded thin and muffled, no matter what I did. The second one sounded very "open" with the TIM, and slightly "clouded" without it. Mer is still recovering from a major chest infection, and so she can't join me in listening until her ears clear. SIGH. I have about decided that I'll just use the TIM every time I play a disc. And oh, yes - Jan et al will be interested to note that the bits of Scotch Poster Tape (removable) I have on the TIM have been working just fine, and show no sign of needing replacement yet. They stick "just enough" to prevent disc slippage, but not so much as to make it hard to remove the TIM from the disc. A better idea than my rubber spray. And Thanks!!!! for that. . . Respectfully . . .LarryR
M.R. - just for your edification - none of the differences in sound quality I've encountered so far are "palpable." G R I N Don't sweat the testing - it's really no big thing, just another of my nutzy experiments that make for grey-cell exercising. . . . And Mer and I hope Ms. Rantz is feeling MUCH better! Respectfully. . . LarryR
M.R. I do not think it could have been as the TIM is very thin and the Memorex CD should have rode above the bearings. Still, I am ceasing layering the Memorex disc atop the Red Book CD going forward. The distributor did state that my situation was a first for them and with respect to the excellent and professional service they provided I will not take any chances even if I do not think it to be a factor.
I do not know why I had not thought of this earlier but the more noise one has in the playback of recorded music the less volume one can attain. If the amp is amplifying noise there is less power available to amplify music.
So tonight I have had an hour or so to listen without interruption as the misses is still at work. I chose the soundtrack "Phantom of the Opera" from Sony recordings, track 1. I kept cranking up the volume with the TIM until I felt I had squeezed all I could out of the system just shy of distorting the sound via the tubes.
This is one of those one and done experiments. Turns out this is actually a high quality recording so I had to drive the Macs to higher than I ever was able to before. Finally, at about 80% power I was able to get a distinction between the playback with and without the TIM. Without the TIM the timpani's force was crumpled. With the TIM it was just mildly distorted, relatively speaking since it is subjective to my ears.
When I dialed back the VC from 6 O'Clock (max) to 5' O'Clock I still had a trace of distortion without the TIM but none with the TIM on the CD. My previous observations of plain better playback were apparent here as well.
I think this is as conclusive as I can get that the TIM is a positive contributor to my ability to draw the best from my music. Many may argue with me as to how can just plain loud prove anything and so be it. My logic is that the cleaner the music is the more I can get from the presentation at any level and this experiment, while extreme, was convincing to me.
Now I am going to dial everything down and listen to some music tonight. Perhaps later this weekend I can find some crappy EC or something to experiment further with as apparently I have been fortunate to select primarily high quality classical recordings. LOL
I must have missed it somewhere... What was wrong with your Saturn?
My Apollo doesn't want to read discs anymore. Started yesterday with a blank disc that just stopped playing. Opened and closed the lid, "Initializing" for at least 3x more than the normal time, then "No-Disc."
My warranty runs out in the begining of April, so I guess now's as good a time as any for that too.
I tried hooking it up yesterday to an old receiver on loan from a friend while the Bryston is being repaired/updated.
One of the three ball bearings fell out and the spring holding it place went AWOL. Apparently the plastic rim on the perimeter of the transport where the CD is placed became corrupted and failed to keep the ball bearing in place. Game over.
I'm getting tired - - of reviewers who insist on saying that the Oppo BVD-83Special Edition is very good - but not NEARLY as good as (fill in the blank) player in their "reference system." OK guyz, you're comparing a player costing $899USD with players that only play one or two formats - and cost three to seven times as much as the Oppo! Scheesch. . . .I could also say that my B&W 705s (as Stereophile said) are "some of the best bookshelf speakers ever to cross my threshold." But then I'll read that the 705s "can't hold a candle to" (fill in the blank) that cost - again - twice as much or more. SIGH. I'd sure like to see an even playing field somewhere. . . Meanwhile - awaiting more TIM reviews - as I now go deeper into VIDEO testing. Other Forums indicate that the Millennium Mat increases resolution and color clarity, etc. Well, we'll give that a spin tonight, also. Now back to my humble Oppo with my humble NAD and my humble B&Ws. . . . . .G R I N Respectfully, but with a grain of salt. . . .LarryR
The Oppo is certainly a giant killer of a machine Larry. It will be topped by some, but it will topple many others - and at two and even three times the price or more. I look at reviews for the sake of determining if something is worthy of consideration, I don't take much notice of their egos. You have a great system to really enjoy your music.
I played the cd layer of a Dire Straits SACD disc yesterday. This disc is almost transparent when holding it up to the light. After the first track, I place the TIM over it and played it again. This disc already, is extremely well mastered and put to disc. But the TIM improved it, not so much in resolution, but made it more musically relaxing. I don't have a clue why this thing works - to varying degrees - and technically, it shouldn't make any difference. Ones is ones and zeroes is zeroes aren't they?
How do they do it? They get a great idea/concept, hire good talent, put it all together in supreme technical facilities - and wind up with a totally BORING product! I'm talking about PBS and most of its documentaries. Witness what should/could have been an intriguing and interesting program on the Greek civilization. Moved so slowly that Mer and I both passed out after about ten minutes. . . .zzzzzzzzz Anyway - I used the TIM on the disc - and found, to my amazement, that the narration was clearer and the overall look of the program was cleaner and a bit more "colored." Took off the mat and everything looked/sounded softer and "grainier." Hmmm. . . . As M.R. so rightly says - it's a mystery - but here again, at least none of us had to pay $119USD to enjoy the "mystery!"A GRIN And the bumblebee can't fly, either. And now to bed. . . .LarryR
Sometimes it is best not to think too far into the thing. The TIM sontinues to have varius levels of effect here aw well in the MC drive. Between nothing discernable (Rush..Permanent Waves, Mofi Masterworks), and a very pleasant (Bonnie Raitt.. Nick of Time, redbook) In fact, the TIM made 2 noticeable spots of sibilence disappear completely! I replaced the old file with a newly ripped TIM version!
Our BD-83 does not like the TIM. At least it doesn't when playing a Bluray disc. It goes through the motions and the counter show zeroes and that's that. Oh well!
Oh, bummer, M.R.! - I just tried the TIM on two separate Blu-ray video discs and the menus came up quicker and the titles came through more clearly, and everything seemed "sharper. Are you using the liddle "sticky" bits that I sent along? I can't imagine why your player refuses to accept the discs.. . . . I'll experiment further. SORRY. . . . Respectfully. .. LarryR
M.R. - Hope that you tried other Blu-ray discs and that the TIM worked for you. I don't understand why it would not. I've tried five different discs, and all played just fine. Speaker Placement - aha! I've read so much on this and other Forums about how just moving speakers a foot or so can make a "palpable" (sorry, had to use it) sound difference. GRIN Well - I was sitting and listening to MUSIC as I've never heard it before from my kit - ahhhhhh - but there was something still not quite right. (aside from the one pfluttt tweeter) So I upped from my sit-down and did a bit of measuring. Spread the 705s 2 feet (sorry,Rantz, point-6 meters) farther apart, and toed them in a few degrees more. That left me with just about an equilateral triangle - very close - maybe a tad farther from speakers to listening position. And then I moved them towards the wall - they'd been out - again, about point-6 meters/2 feet, and I cut that distance by a third. Sat back - and immediately heard much warmer and more "coherent" sound. Hmmm. . . .maybe there IS someting to what y'all have been saying for years? Yep. I am just SO happy with what I'm hearing from my mid-fi kit!!! Mer isn't quite as happy, though - I oft-times forget to get up and fix her dinner! BIG GRIN (?) Respectfully. . .LarryR PS - hope you get your "painted lady" soon, Michael W. . .
Hmmm, ya think anyone might possibly have said "Hey that package your were waiting for showed up today?".....
I took the painted TIM, the original TIM, and an Elvis CD and experimented a little with no TIM, and each TIM right side up and upside down. Interesting results so far.
More testing is required in order for me to provide what it is I am hearing. Too much family activity with TV volume earlier and lower volumes now with respect to the time it is now so I really want to run some normal volume tests before I comment. Interesting results so far.
Mike W - you'll be very interested to discover that the "painted lady" TIM, hereafter known as the PTIM, will give you quite different results - and a lot will depend on the type of music played. I find that discs with multiple strings are the best candidate for experimentation, because of the huge amount of overtones present - unlike close-miked and more pop-oriented discs. I haven't a clue which one you'll like best - though I have a nagging suspicion that the PTIM will be your final choice, based on your comments re putting a black disc atop the TIM. Hmm. . . I watched the operetta Die Fledermaus in Blu-ray last night - and tried the TIM on that disc. Mer and I were rather excited, because the mat made the dialogue easier to understand, and the orchestra seemed to fill a much larger space. It didn't help the screeching of the singers, though! BIG G R I N Happy hopping-around, Michael - keep us informed. Respectfully. . .LarryR
Michael W - OK with your private message to me. Glad that you and a friend are, indeed, finding some "palpable" (tee-hee) differences in sound quality with the PTIM and regular TIM. We've now used the TIM on everything from Redbood CDs to Blu-ray discs, and have not had any trouble - at least none since we put the dabs of removable tape on the TIMs! All the difference in the world. B&W just e-mailed that the new tweeter diaphram will be shipped out from I think Maine on Thursday. Whew! Will be glad when I get that installed so the two 705s are more evenly-voiced. The first tweeter I replaced was much worse than the remaining one, but there is still splatter and distortion whenever the speaker is put under much load. SIGH. I hope the new one resolves that!! A lot of music listening today - luv-in' it ! ! ! ! ! REspectfully. . .LarryR
L.R. Yes sir, yikes, there are certainly differences with the PTIM and TIM. However, there are more differences with which side is up than which one is used. My friend, who is has classical music experience and an ear that could recognize an artist from a technician playing a bass cello and whether or not they are spot on tune or not, helluva lot better than I can hear, spent time listening to the various combinations I could provide, plain redbook CD playback, TIM right side up, TIM flipped, PTIM right side up, and PTIM flipped.
His comments summarized were that TIM right side up was better than straight red book CD in terms of more controlled presentation but diminished breath of sound stage.
For TIM flipped with dull side up he found the sound more open and defined.
For PTIM he felt the soundstage of the original redbook CD returned but with better controls and presentation.
He liked the PTIM flipped over but thought that it was sub-standard to everything but the plain redbook CD. He commented that soundstaging was abundant but lacked control of the individual instruments.
My experience was similar but I would articulate my experience differently.
For point of reference my friend with "excellent hearing" listened to Pink Floyd - Division Bell track 7 - "Take It Back" through when the vocals started for each test which he selected from my library based upon his intimate experience with that album.
I used Willie Nelson's Natural Renegade Track 5 - "Pancho and Lefty with Merle Haggard" through when Haggard's vocals kick in for tonight's tests. I too am most familiar with this CD and particularly this song.
I found when just before Haggard's vocals start there is a guitar lead front and present and out of control with the PTIM flipped but open and exciting with the PTIM sunny side up and clearly more enjoyable than the same music on this track without a TIM or PTIM and more expressionable than with the TIM either side up.
There is more experimentation to do, not sure I will get into Blu-Ray or DVD but that is a possibility. Additional music genre will be explored as it is possible that impressions may change based upon genre.
I do not think there is any evidence to make a case for "how" what occurs with these experiments changes by flipping the PTIM or TIM and how the effect changes via genre, recording techniques, or label of the source disc. My goal is simple, to determine what would be the most consistent way to listen to CDs irrespective to any of the aforestated variables.
I am aware that the color of the CD label as well as the SQ of the recording all has a play in this, but even the best CD has subtle improvements with the TIM or PTIM.
Equipment Isolation is so much easier to decipher.
GRIN and tip of the hat to O'Larry for St. Patty's Day.
Larry the Silver Lounge Llizard ill advisedly dyes his skin green thinking of the St. Patrick's Day festivities he longs to participate in and the drunken co-eds he will meet in his Floridian habitat.
Very much to his dismay he is mistaken for a Gecko and is besieged by both half naked males and females wanting insurance quotes.
Poor Larry becomes confronted with his ghost of Christmas past, from whence he was selling insurance for State Farm. Funny how one cannot escape their past and surely not what his intentions were for this night since he had long since retired from peddling insurance.
Oh, dear - sounds like poor Michael W was "over-auditioned" by the end of the evening! It happens, even in the best of homes. SIGH. Anyway - before he dissolved into make-believe-land (grin) he did an admirable job - with his friend - of auditioning the various "versions" of the TIM. Difficult job. . . As y'all know - most of my listening is either classical or jazz - and with that in mind I found that the TIM was a bit sharper-focused than the PTIM. Adding the black layer on the top side did,however, resolve more sibilance issues. I've given up even trying to figger out the why's and how's of the Mats - all I'm trying to do is make the music more natural-sounding. Me thinks that we have a positive product here - it's just in the fine-tuning that remains an unknown. If Nuck or M.R. wants to join the estimable Mr. Wodek in spray-painting his TIM with black paint - BE CAREFUL! Too much of a good thing can create disc-wobble, which you do NOT want! Spray fine. . .two coats. My remaining discs are the same as Mike is using - so I can parallel his methods, if not his musical references. We'll surely wear this out pretty quickly - so I'd just like to thank all three of the Mat-testers for their patience and diligence. If, in the end, your music sounds more natural and lifelike - good! I'm a much happier camper - plus, it was a fun project. Now that I've determined that the TIM sharpens up DVDs as well - it was more than worth my investment in time and money. Happy Listening to all! Respectfully. . .LarryR
Scheeeessshhhh! Made the big mistake of surfing around some other forum threads - and slunk back here in a quick hurry! Ouch! I'm all for differing opinions, but. . . . "yeah, Mer. . . WHO's on the phone?" Oh, boy. . . . . Now they're starting to yell in person. Rantz - got a spare bedroom way down there? (grin?) Still respectfully after all these years. . . .LarryR
Thank you for the opportunity to work with the TIM and PTIM. It was fun to experiment with and even more enjoyable to find similar experiences were had by both of us as well as my friend who was much better than I in articulation of what he was hearing.
Funny how I can go to "dissolving into make believe land" from "admirable job" in 18 minutes. .........How was I to know that Larry's selling insurance for State Farm wasn't real?
I was actually probably somewhat liquefied somewhere well after the audition but before my first post as I am 25% Irish-American and what day was it yesterday?
BTW Larry, tell the fool doing the yelling that everyone knows that "Who's not on the phone?"
M.R. - I've slept on/in worse things than HiFi cartons, my friend! 'Slong asthah Stout holds out. . . And Michael W my friend. I did, indeed, BUY State Farm insurance a long time ago - and perhaps one of my bosses at the Chicago Tribune wished that I'd sold insurance instead of writing news - but that's another boring story. GRIN Now I'm excited because my new tweeter is on its way here. SIGH. Doesn't take much to entertain some people, eh? I say, EH? Oops, when I can't hear my own voice I tend to shout. . . .GRIN And a hearty huzzah to all. Respekful-like. . .Larry the - well, you know. . . .
Quite a shock this ayem - went to replace the wall box for my surround speakers, and took a good, close look at the speaker wires - 14AWG, BTW. The copper is all green and corroded in many places, including the bare ends. A BIG SIGH. Realizing that this might degrade the signal (or not) I shall have to replace them. With more 14AWG. After auditioning some of the flame-throwers on other threads, I remember how I got chastised indirectly some years ago - for posting the results of a "speaker wire test" that my late friend, Verne, did out in LA. He brought in six "golden ears" audio engineer types for A-B blind listening - but even though most of the people "heard differences" between A and B - Verne never changed the connection at all. Now many on this and other threads thought that was unfair and unjust. I just though it pointed up the argument that - given a blind test - the "differences" between cables may be more in the mind than in the copper/silver whatever. IMHO, anyway. Ancient history, but a good story, anyway. Respectfully. . .LarryR
Could I ask how long the wire in the wall box has been in place? We used to use silicon caulk on outdoor RG6 coax connectors for UHF/VHF and DIRECTV antennas. I was never convinced it was the best way to do things but it sure lasted longer than non coated connectors
Hi, Jim: Ummmmm. . .I'm trying to think through a sinus infection here. Seems that I set up the wall box in 2003 - and have been meaning to replace the bare-wires-connected-with-wire nuts with "proper" connectors for banana plugs. SIGH. So it's been a while since I paid any attention. And how, you ask, did I know that the copper wires were turning green along the run? Well, these wires happen to be coated with sorta yellow transparent insulation. I just never bothered to inspect them. . . I, too, put silicone on Outdoor connections, but never on inside ones - too messy to try to clean off should I need to do so. And speaking of connections, I'm going to remove the solid-wire silver jumpers on my speakers. I was told "on good authority" that they would help the sound?? Well, they didn't - but they sure have turned black! SIGH The things I do NOT know about stereo! GRIN Respectfully. . .LarryR
Do you have enough wire to trim back, Lar? You left a few feet in the wall, yes? Your connection was probably not corrupted too badly and only exposed when you removed the Marrettes, no worry, but reconnecting is bad.
Better late than nothing. .. .GRIN And Nuck, yes, I've got lots of wire left in the wall - but that's not the wire that's corroded - just the connecting wire from wall to speaker. The in-wall copper seems fine. Must have got cruddy speaker wire, eh? GRIN With the new plate, I just insert the in-wall wire, tighten set screws, and screw on the wall plate. Then I put banana plugs on the to-speaker wire and plug in. Much better than my original "home-made" setup!!!! At least it looks better. . . . .WAF REspectfully. . . .LarryR
Hi and huzzah to Rick! Sorry - wish I could afford your Spendors, SIGH. Life is like that. . .anyway, glad to briefly hear that you're OK. Second tweeter installed in the 705s today - and I found myself just shaking my head. Without any break-in at all - much smoother and less "tinny-fuzzy" when loaded at all. SIGH. The old ones look perfect - don't understand what was wrong. . . NUCK/MICHAEL W. - - Well, going on what Mike had said after he and friend did listening test - I sprayed the top (shiny) side of my last TIM black, and then crossed my fingers. I agree, Mike - the PTIM is just a hint fuller and warmer than the reg-lar TIM. Hmm. . . And that's all I have to say about that! GRIN Respectfully. . .LarryR
Glad to see to got your other tweeter Larry. Still haven't had much of a chance to do further testing with the TIM other than what I have reported. The family member health issue has not been dormant I'm afraid and things have been a bit back and forth. Happy listening to Mer and yourself.
Mike W - after some serious testing, I have determined that, at least for classical music, the painted lady TIM "clouds" the music a bit - seems to blunt higher frequencies and makes piano music sound as though it comes from the next room. Oh, I know - all the trouble with tweeters/crossovers - whatever. But I'm back to the Plain TIM - which does make a difference on all but the newest SACDs. As to the high frequency distortion problem I'm into on the Speakers thread - SIGH - the new tweeters DID make a difference - but now I've ordered a new crossover for my "offending" speaker - which may, or may not, end the problem. DOUBLE SIGH. The experimenting came to a close when Jan urged me to listen with earphones (why had I not thought of making THAT comparison???) And the sound came through the phones nice and clean. DUH. Thanks to Jan for the eye-uh-"ear-opener." Now I think I'll take a nice - QUIET - nap. No music. GRIN REspectfully. . . LarryR
Update, update. SIGH. Oppo is sending me a new replacement 83SE by FedEx - I send the old one back when the new one arrives, postage paid by Oppo! I have no idea what they'll find - they may never tell me. Meanwhile, I was listening to the NAD's FM this ayem - and it began to make strange sounds. Ummm. . .sorta a "frying pan" noise. I unplugged it and awayed it to the repair shop. This is beginning to get me down! Maybe a nice Bose system. . . .whadda yah think? Being "tune-less" is a real birch! Respectfully. . .LarryR
FINALLY. Got the NAD back from the shop (second time around) where they'd found a SECOND cold solder joint in the 7.1 input section. Wonder who made this unit, anyway???? OK - got the NEW Oppo all hooked up and now playing some (surprise!) chamber music. I'm using the stereo out from the Oppo and for perhaps the first time ever the B&W 705s sing along nicely without any help from the sub! A breakthrough there, fer shore. The high frequency "squeal" is gone, and what sibilence there is comes from older CDs - but the TIM manages to do away with a LOT of that! the thing really DOES work! Good. . . I'm putting the player through its paces, and hope to have 20 or 30 hours on it before the weekend - IF breakin time would help it. I'm "on the fence" regarding that issue - whether all this stuff really sounds better after "breakin" periods. SIGH. Well, I'm a happier camper, and at least for the moment all is golden in the Roderick house - at least where HiFi is concerned! GRIN Now I'm going to pour a tall cold one and sit back and just ENJOY THE MUSIC! Ahhhhh. . . . . . . . Respectfully. . .LarryR
Long time no posting from ole Lar in Swampville - so I thought I'd catch y'all up on our stereo-related traumas. SIGH. Couple months ago I heard some speakers at a friend's house - loved them. Found them used online - and bid. Got them. But they came rather smashed-up, and that began a six-week battle with the sender, UPS, PayPal,eBay and everybody in between. Long story short - I finally got my money back and shipped the speakers back to the seller. But was I happy? Certainly not! I loved the sound of those speakers, so when I went online to the company, I found that they were on "10th anniversary sale," and, uh, well, I bought a pair. I wanted the beautiful cherry finish - Mer wanted the slick "Steinway black" - and of course we now have a pair of shiny black speakers in our living room. OH - forgot to say - they are probably speakers y'all have never heard of - Aperion 6B speakers from a liddle company out in Oregon. They only sell online. Without getting into yet another speaker battle, Mer and I agree that they sound absolutely wonderful - much more natural and clear than the B&Ws ever were. WE love them. Oh, yes - I sold the 705s for $800USD - $300 more than the new Aperions cost. How's that for a long story cut short? We leave for our beloved Santa Fe in just six days - will spend time and money out there until the end of September - in a house we rented from an artist-friend of Mer's. Art, Opera, and thousands of pounds of my beloved Chile Peppers! Wish us luck - we're driving there and back - and may need a divorce attorney after that trip! BIG GRIN Hope all dawgs are doing well. . .have heard a few short messages from Simply McIntosh - she's happily kayaking around and doing martial arts, and not doing too much with stereo these daze. Be well and happy - please. Respectfully. . .LarryR
Congrats on the speakers. I was close to buying a pair of Aperions. 30 day in home trial and all. Just kind of passed on them for whatever reason (probably because some other speakers distracted me at the time). But maybe I should give them a shot (hmmn). It's interesting to hear you guys think so highly of them.
Most here know about Aperion...their ads are all over ecoustics. I'm with you on the cherry finish btw. The 82dB sensitivity of the 6B kind of scares me though. Is getting high volume an issue?
Dan L et al - I have to admit that I was hesitant to get them, even though I'd heard - and loved - them at a friend's home. The first speakers - used - had the cherry finish, which was so good that I thought "how could speakers selling for $700 have this kind of real wood finish?" OK, it's veneer, but nobody could sell solid cherry speakers for reasonable prices. Given my ordeal with the first speakers, it's a wonder I got the second set! GRIN But when $700 speakers go on sale for $499, and I knew I wanted them - too good to pass up, so I coughed up the dough. Even though I argued for the cherry finish, Mer said she'd always wanted "a Steinway in the living room." Female logic being what it is. . . . .she now has two very small "Steinways" in the house. GRIN OK - the sensitivity issue - not much of an issue for me. As I still had the B&Ws when the Aperions came, I could A-B them easily by using the A and B speaker outputs of my NAD 763. The drop in volume was, indeed, there, but the difference was between, say 12 and 15 on the volume control. Not significant. And the sound? Well, for classical music the Aperions simply disappear, the the music comes forward. The midrange, especially, is so "believable!" People on these forums talk about "sound stage," and I've never been much aware of their comments - but I finally "see" what they talk about - with the Aperions it's like having a stage full of musicians between them. Very, very nice. My listening room has many problems - so "perfect sound" is not part of my life, but my golden-eared wife swears by these speakers like she's never done with our previous ones. The only time she came close to Love with speakers was when we had our old Kef 104/2 speakers in the late 90s. I'll say the Aperions are an excellent buy at $700 - but then, that's only my very humble opinion. Too bad the Big Anniversary sale ended July 31! Respectfully. . . . LarryR
Nuck - greetings to you, sir. Yes, I've re-placed speakers so many times I can't count. It's the room itself that gives me fits. Mer won't allow much "treatment" on walls, so I can only go so far. BUT WAIT - - - - HOLD THE PRESSES! JUST ACCESSED THE APERION SITE AND FIND THAT THE BIG ANNIVERSARY SALE HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO THE END OF AUGUST! So anybody wanting some 6Bs can still get them for $499 USD the pair. A deal, my friends - - a real deal!!! Respectfully. . . LarryR
Jan, received the wonderful JLH Box in the mail yesterday.
Thank you very much. It's an outstanding set. I have and will continue to take your advice from the note you included. Those are the things that enrich our lives. Thank you again, Jan.
John A. - Yeah, gotta love those intrusive ads that run automatically. But if you download Firefox and then the Adblock extension, that garbage is gone.
The forum has become increasingly difficult to navigate over the last two years. More pop-up ads and general BS, most of which now is set to play automatically and often times intrudes on the postings themself. Seems like you can have an ad at the top of the page, an ad in the middle and an ad at the bottom all playing at once while pop-ups block your path to navigating the forum. Pages take much too long to load but I suspect this is all going to make Brian more money and he hasn't exactly shown a desire to make the forums more friendly over the last few years. I've lost numerous postings that just seem to get gobbled up by the mechanics of the forum.
When I first heard the sounds, I thought I was in for an expensive computer repair. Now, after seeing all the ads which are playing continuously on each page, I just mute my speakers at the tool bar when I do not choose to listen to content, John.
Needless to say, I concur. I don't necessarily mind ads, but not when they are so intrusive that all you can think about is shutting them off. I wonder if this has anything to do with the reduced activity here in Home Audio - but how could it not? Again though, zero ads are just a couple of downloads away (assuming you have a PC - not sure about Mac).
I don't generally have the ads and such here either and I'm running Firefox. This site is slow though and doesn't have much traffic anymore. Still enjoy seeing what you all are up to though.
From Swampville with grace and good wishes - Merri and I hope that your New Year is filled with hope and happiness. We spent three glorious months out in New Mexico and Colorado - will do the same next August-October. Too poor to move out full-time! GRIN My hearing continues to degrade, unfortunately, so I listen on wireless headphones - better than no music at all! We remain here in Naples until Mer's father passes on. Her mom died in January, dad sinks into dementia and ill health in a nursing facility. So much for the "downer" news! Enough! - We have much to be thankful for, and so remain positive about everything except the political mess in Washington. (and yes, the new in-your-face ads on this thread!) SIGH. Enjoy the music - life is fleeting. With great respect - Larry Roderick
Sorry to hear the downer news, Larry. However, we do have much to be thankful for even with the BS in Washington and most state capitals. For example, you can be thankful your governor didn't get up on the national stage just to make a complete fool of himself.
I took a fall last month and have had surgery to repair a broken elbow and reattach my tricep muscle. I'm wearing this big honkin' black metal brace on my arm with all these straps and adjustments. It looks like something from Iron Man that should shoot laser beams at the enemy. People keep saying they're sorry I broke my arm. I keep telling them at least I have a hand that still works and I'll get better. There's been a lot of young soldiers who have come to in a hospital with far less to look forward to. No matter what the situation, if you look, you can always find someone who has it worse. We're still free and no one is dropping bombs on us or blowing up the line at the supermarket.
The mental problems of old age are more difficult to shake off. I went through much the same with several of my family members. My sister called last year to say she has developed a rare brain disorder that has been passed on through our mother's side of the family. One cousin who's a few years older than I am is already in a nursing home wearing a diaper. Scares the sh!t out of you when you can't remember why you came into a room, doesn't it? Good luck, Larry. There's never a good ending to those problems.
Jan, et al - right you are. We all have many things for which to be thankful. So sorry to hear about your arm - sounds like a medical nightmare to me! And our governor regularly makes a fool out of himself without even a stage under his feet. Least popular one we've had in decades. Thirty-two weeks until we away to Santa Fe and a glorious month of chamber music and opera. If it is loud enough I can hear it. GRIN A Hearty Holiday Season to all, and to all - great music! Respectfully, Larry R
Hey, Art - been thinking about y'all - and wondering how all of your rig is coming along? I got mine all set, then my hearing started going downhill fast. Nerve damage, and hearing aids help, but as you probably know, they never sound "good." Earphones have saved my sanity. . .GRIN Yes, we've thought many times about coming out to your part of the country, but just never quite made the plunge (no pun intended) We have a house rented up in Evergreen, Colorado, and although it is over our budget, we decided that, at my age, we might as well spend as much time out in our beloved West as we can. We're pretty well stuck here until Mer's dad passes on, then we'll surely pick up and move West - if I'm not too ancient by then! GRIN In the past two years Mer has spent two "intense" weeks in Portland, at Bullseye Glass Company seminars. But I had to stay behind and count nickels. . . Be of good cheer, and hope for an end to the political mess in Washington. Embarrassing. . . Respectfully, LarryR
Yep! Have been for several years. The topic eventually ran out of steam though the thread became a largely friend based discussion of things going on in our life. Hardly anyone who participated in this thread remains on the forum. At least one participant has now permanently turned out the lights. Nuck is still missed by many who knew him. These were different times.
Hi Jan. Nice to see you're still around. In the near future I may be looking for a blu-ray player that can also handle sacd and dvd-a discs, at least the couple dozen I bought years ago. Just popped on to see if there's any recommendations, pros/cons, etc. My "research" is just starting and I'm actually not even sure if/when it'll amount to anything. May pass completely.
As an aside I signed on a couple years ago and intended to send you a PM but was unable. We had just gotten back from visiting a winery in Paso Robles, CA http://www.levignewinery.com/ Reminded me of you ;) Hope all is well. Cheers.
Yeah, "Vigne" and "Vigna" are the French/Italian words for "vineyard" or wine maker in a looser translation. Half my family uses one spelling and the other half the other. My ancestors came from an estate at the very foot of Monte Blanc in the Alps between the two countries. Susa in the NorthWestern part of the Piedmonte region of what is now Northern Italy was their home town. I've always said I had no notes of their existence in Italy so I wasn't sure if they were the local wine makers or the local town drunks - or both! There's quite a story about the journey my great grandfather and his brother made across the US back in the late 19th century but it's too long to go into here. In short, it involves money and a train toilet that back then was just a hole in a board.
You will likely find true universal players are very scarce. DVD-Audio became the red headed stepchild of audio long ago. The Oppo units may still accommodate them but I know of no other players off hand. SACD has faired a bit better though most BluRays will default to the CD layer. A lot of this has to do with Sony/Philips' continued resistance to allow SACD (or, more properly, the DSD file format) to be used outside of licensed products. Given the short supply for most BluRay buyers of existing SACD discs, most manufacturers don't bother paying Sony/Philips royalties for access to these discs. I'm not even certain Sony BluRay's will actually read the DSD files. I haven't seen a real world Philips product in the US in I can't remember when. They are still represented here but not by any well known retailers that I can think of.
DSD data though is seeing a bit of renewed interest in outboard DAC's. The technology was sound and, IMO and that of many others, remains one of the best digital files systems produced to date. Classical music and jazz lovers in particular have kept a small but steady stream of SACD discs available for years. Though Telarc, once the most prominent label for SACD's, discontinued their production several years back.
Once again though, Sony and Philips - the co-creators of DSD - are extremely stingey about how the files are used. Particularly at the time you would have purchased your SACD discs, it was likely mastered in a studio that lacked full DSD capabilities. Most signal processing systems of the time were not capable of handling DSD data streams and, therefore, the data was at some point downsampled to PCM or conventional CD quality. Then upsampled back to DSD for the creation of the SACD hard disc. This makes a good deal of the existing SACD discs somewhat better than a straight 16/44 CD but still not the full DSD experience.
Look around and see what you find. That computeraudiophile.com site might be your best starting point. It might be easier, if you are only talking a handful of discs, to buy a DAC capable of DSD file reading and simply pay for the downloads in that format. If you really like the music that much. Otherwise, DVD-A's and SACDs will pretty much be the ElCassette of the 2000's.
I do still own my Denon 2900 universal player. If you're interested in using something like that, let me know and we'll work out a deal. It's just sitting on the floor of my room right now.
Thanks much for the link and info Jan, I'll explore in more depth. I've been considering the Oppo 103 which does everything I'm looking for, but it's likely more than I need and care to spend. The thought that led me to this point was to simply condense into fewer components, if possible and affordable, while still being able to access all my music. Thanks for the Denon offer but I still have a working sacd/dvd-a combo unit that I may decide to keep. I have some decisions to make, obviously.
Interesting story regarding your ancestors. Similarly my paternal grandfather and his brother came to the US as teens from Bratislava somewhere around 1910. Probably explains my love of halupki.
It's been nice chatting with you. I may pop back in from time to time.
