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New member Username: KillerjimmyLos Angeles, CA United States Post Number: 5 Registered: Mar-06 | I have Klipsch RB5 II's in the front and a Mirage S12 for the sub. I am still in the market for rear speakers as well as a center channel.....but the topic at hand is the receiver. Right now I have a 15 year old Sony STR ...something..it has served me well but I want the speakers to shine. Any suggestions??? |
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Gold Member Username: NuckParkhill, Ontario Canada Post Number: 1617 Registered: Dec-04 | Panasonic xr55. Shine is an understatement. Wear shades. |
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New member Username: KillerjimmyLos Angeles, CA United States Post Number: 8 Registered: Mar-06 | I will check it out!! Thanks Nuck. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3708 Registered: Mar-05 | LOL be careful of that devilish little Nuckster... |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 696 Registered: Dec-03 | You have not suggested any type of budget. What are you willing to spend? |
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New member Username: KillerjimmyLos Angeles, CA United States Post Number: 10 Registered: Mar-06 | Up to about $700 preferably. I just checked out the Panny and I thought it sounded great and it was only $199. But I am always up for suggestions. |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3709 Registered: Mar-05 | To be honest I would be a little concerned about the Panny making your Klipsch speakers sound too bright but that's what return policies are for. And I *have* read of some Klipsch owners who liked the combo. |
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Bronze Member Username: KillerjimmyLos Angeles, CA United States Post Number: 11 Registered: Mar-06 | I read a couple reviews saying that exact thing that was why I made sure they took returns. I am going to kick the tires first and send it back if it doesn't meet expectations. Do you have any receiver suggestions?? |
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Gold Member Username: Edster922Abubala, Ababala The Occupation Post Number: 3711 Registered: Mar-05 | With Klipsch speakers: the Panny xr55 if you are feeling adventurous, a Marantz if not. accessories4less.com has some great deals on authorized Marantz refurbs. |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 702 Registered: Dec-03 | diatribe: I also agree with Edster. With the Klipsch, I would go with the Marantz 5x00 series receiver, which will be well within your budget. Also, about your speakers. . . You posted on the speaker forum that you have the fronts and the sub and are looking for a center and surrounds. I have a different idea. I would use your current Klipsch as surrounds and get new for the front three speakers. That way, you can be sure of matching the sound across the front. Since your current Klipsch have been discontinued, it can be problematic finding a good match for a center speaker. As I mentioned before, you want a "seamless" image across the front and that requires three speakers that are voice matched. Would the current RB15 and matching center work for you as front speakers, for instance? |
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Bronze Member Username: KillerjimmyLos Angeles, CA United States Post Number: 13 Registered: Mar-06 | I will definately look into the marantz 5x00. I haven't listened to the RB15's yet but I definately give them a look. I absolutely see your point as far as seamless sound goes. You don't a hodge podge of non-complimenting components. Would you suggest running the speakers through an amp or just through the receiver???? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 711 Registered: Dec-03 | With the Marantz receiver, I think you have sufficient power to drive the speakers without an external amp (unless of course, you have an enormous room to fill or you get some really inefficient speakers--a sensitivity rating of 85 db or less). One more thing on the RB15s I mentioned--I haven't heard them, but I assume they have a similar sound to your current Klipsch speakers (that would be good, but not essential). I went to the Klipsch website to look them over, but I couldn't find any info on what size drivers they have or the speaker's sensitivity, etc., so I would not say I am recommending them (I never recommend anything I haven't heard myself), but assuming you like the sound of the Klipsch (a reasonable assumption, I think), they looked like they might be a good fit. If you do decide to get new front speakers, get the speakers that are appropriate to the size room you have. If memory serves, your current speakers have a 5.25 inch woofer, which may or may not be appropriate fronts for the size of your listening room (smaller drivers can get lost if you have a large room--a 6.5 woofer is usually a very safe bet, but not essential). So if the RB15s are too small for your room, just look to a slightly larger model in the same line. Conversely, if they are large enough, you have your solution. I would suggest you select a receiver first and then find the right size speakers for your fronts and center that work well with that receiver and your room. I hope this helps. |
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Bronze Member Username: KillerjimmyLos Angeles, CA United States Post Number: 16 Registered: Mar-06 | Hawk, Thanks for the info. I am looking at the Panasonic on Friday and the marantz line on monday. I will let you know how it sounds. I have already started researching the rb15's and comparing them to my rb5 II's. Any other suggestions, please let me know. Thanks again. |
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New member Username: Uback007Post Number: 2 Registered: Mar-06 | Okay, I'm in the same boat here. I just bought some Paradigm Titans V.4 and they are stand mounted..I am currently powering them with a 1981 Yamaha A-760 amp - along with a 1989 Sony CDP-C315 5-disc changer. I heard the Paradigms through a lot better of a system when I bought them ($199)- so I know this on-the-floor amp and cd player sound pretty horrible.. The room is 12.5' x 22 with hardwood floors and windows galore..the system is in the center of 22' wall facing out the length of 12.5 space I mentioned. Yes, this is a very "live room" Anyway, I have been poring over literature, websites, reviews, audiogon, local stores, etc in an effort to get a receiver...I have looked at Yamaha RX-V659, Outlaw, NAD, Marantz, Pioneer Elite 52X, etc... I have not really decided whether or not to get a AV receiver or 2 channel...Do I get used separates? Do I stick with 2 channel and add a sub to the Titans, etc..so many questions. Bottom-line: I want the best bang for the buck sound I can afford. Receiver budget is $400-$650.. I have read great things about the Yamaha, NAD, Outlaw...(I know the Outlaw 2150 is a 2 channel system)and Pioneer Elite..Do I go ahead and get the great sounding (I have not heard this unit, only read favorable reviews) Yamaha do-everything AV receiver to satisfy the potential regret I may feel if I would decide on a 2-channel receiver? This decision making process is tedious (but I must admit fun!) I really want great sound! AV is secondary...that Yamaha YPAO thingy is intriguing though. And the Ipod connectivity is cool with the new Yamaha RX-V659/HTR-5960. Maybe it can make some cool adjustments for this room that I have the system in... I like the look of silver components..the aforementioned A-760 is silver and looks great in the room...However, the you have to get the Yamaha HTR-5960 to get silver finish...so many questions, thoughts! What about the dvd/cd player that will process SACD? HELP!!! Okay, i'm done babling now. head is spinning! |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 745 Registered: Dec-03 | Coby: It can be hard to respond to your post inasmuch as we cannot know how important HT may become to you in the future. Nevertheless, you have set some parameters, that allow me to make some serious recommendations. 1. Given your budget, you will be hard pressed to find an AV receiver that will satisfy you if you want great sound of music. I have auditioned them all in this price range and there are only two I can recommend below $650: the NAD T743 and the Marantz SR5500. Now, is so happens that the Marantz, which has a rather laid back sound, is a very poor match for your Titans, which also have a very laid back sound. If you pair them, you will likely have a system that will be dull and uninvolving (aka, BORING!). The NAD, on the other hand, is a more forward and dynamic sounding receiver with great stage depth, making it a good compliment to the sound of the Paradigms (one of the best combos, IMO). I highly recommend it. 2. If you want a stereo receiver, you have a number of very good choices. The Outlaw 2150 is a fine receiver, with gobs of power and a cool, forward sound that works well with your Titans--it also comes in silver, which you suggest you have a preference for. Another fine choice is the NAD C720BEE, which as mentioned earlier, works very well with Paradigm speakers. It only comes in NAD's standard gun-metal grey, however. Still, NAD also has the very intriguing L53, which comes in a titanium finish and has a built in CD player. I think it runs about $599 and has been highly praised in the audio press as it competes with the Linn Classik at half the cost. It also has one very cool feature--it has a circuit to simulate the spatial sound of home cinema systems--I haven't heard the circuit used myself, but I have read two reviews that say it really works well. You might also look into the Rotel RX-1056. It sounds very similar to the Outlaw (making it a great match for your speakers) and comes in silver. I think the MSRP is either $649 or $699, but I often find it discounted 10%, so it would seem to fit your budget. Any of these choices would likely make you very happy. 3. Now, for great sound, a number of manufacturers make integrated amps that often give much better sound than most receivers, and you have a number of hi-fi manufacturers that eschew receivers all together and simply make a great integrated amp or two (Rega, Creek, and Music Hall come to mind here). Good choices here include the NADs (C320bee, C350, and C370), the Rotel RA-1062, and the Music Hall a25.2, are all excellent choices (you can check out the Music Hall here: http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=MHA25%2E2&product_name=M usic%20Hall%20a25%2E2%20Integrated%20Amp Now, I really like the Rega Brio and the Cabridge Audio Azure 640A integrated amps, but they are a little too laid back sounding for your speakers, but they are very worthy integrateds with the right speakers. 4. Ipod connectivity is not limited to one brand. Yamaha has their docking station, which probably connects with a pair of RCA connectors that will attach to any receiver's AUX input (I have only seen pictures), but I have seen other brands offering the same thing and that is the way they are set-up. However, my daughter simply uses an Ipod cable with a 3.5mm stereo plug at one end and a pair of RCA connectors at the other and it plugs into the receivers we have. It only cost $9.95 at Best Buy. Well, I hope this helps you narrow your choices. Good luck! |
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New member Username: Uback007Post Number: 8 Registered: Mar-06 | Hawk, Okay I owe you a ton of gratitude for your response, thank you soo soo much! You just saved me a ton of research..Thank you thank you! I will do some more reading about the other suggestions that you mentioned, i.e., Rotel and the NAD integrated like you mentioned. Thanks again! GREAT POST!!! |
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New member Username: Uback007Post Number: 9 Registered: Mar-06 | Okay, I'm excited here! It's incredible how much things can change as this process "evolves" I am thinking that I really don't even need any tuner feature at all...I mean what do I really listen to? Answer: CD's and the digital music feed from cable- Why have not even considered an integrated component?..DUH! This is fun... I, like a ton of other budding audiophiles-on-a-budget am so new and green to this...but its such a blast! |
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New member Username: Uback007Post Number: 10 Registered: Mar-06 | Hawk, What about all of the posts I'm reading about the humming of the NAD's ? Is that something that I should be concerned about? |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 746 Registered: Dec-03 | Coby: Every manufacturer has a certain number of bad units, regardless of who it is. I have had to take my NAD T753 in because the power supply went bad. This does not mean that NAD has an endemic problem with power supplies, just that every once in a while one is made with a small defect that can have serious consequences (kinda like the Service Module booster on Apollo 13). While at the dealer, I got to see his repair log for the first three months of the year. Almost half of the units in for repair were Yamaha units, mostly HT receivers, all with various ailments. Some with Hum, some with hiss, and some with channels that drop out. Does this mean Yamaha is a bad brand? Hardly. It means they have their share, as well. Yamaha customers are not as particular as NAD customers, according to my dealer who deals in both lines, so they don't often get on this forum to complain about it. So you hear more complaints from NAD owners who are focused on getting the very best possible out of their system--I know, I'm one of them. And, if you think I am biased, check out the Denon website where they list 9 different internet retailers who sell their "B-stock", aka refurbished products (units with issues that had to be repaired and thus cannot be sold as new). That is a lot of repaired units to stock 9 different internet retailers! Likewise, I bought by Rotel (for my second system) from a large Rotel dealer who had it returned because it had a bad channel--consequently, I got a really good deal. Doesn't mean Rotel is bad because it has units returned because of problems. When you think about it, with all the units that are produced, it is amazing that so few do have problems. Now, in all fairness, I have not heard any complaints from owners of NAD integrated amps--all complaints have been with their HT receivers and/or digital pre/pros. To the contrary, NAD integrateds are considered to be first rate, capable of competing with some of the very best integrateds under $1K. So if you are looking at an NAD integrated, I would have to say no, humming is nothing to be concerned about. If you are looking into a HT receiver, like the T743, then I think NAD is no worse than any other brand, but you just have to get a dealer who will resolve any problems, regardless of the brand you buy. This is why you are much better off going to a specialty audio store rather than buying at a "big box" store such as Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. You will get much better service in most cases. Trust your judgement. If you don't get any bad vibes in discussing what you want and how well he responds to your desires, chances are the specialty dealer will stand by you if there is any problem. Also, a good dealer will allow you to take the unit home and try it in your home. If you hear humm, or hiss, or a channel dropping out, then you simply take it back for another. If it isn't the sound you want, take it back. But take the time to select a unit that will produce the sound you want to hear--no sense in having "buyer's regrets" on a purchase like this. I glad I was able to expand your thinking about an integrated amp. Too may people don't even think about an integrated and yet they represent some of the very best values in audio today, IMHO. And yes, it is fun! ! ! ! |
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Bronze Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 11 Registered: Mar-06 | Hawk, aka "THE Mentor" Thanks once again for a great explanation to my concern. Everything you said makes quite a bit of sense. Last week I went to a shop that carries NAD and I got to hear the 743 (ironically enough) through a set of Monitor Audio Silver Series S6's- WOW talk about a great pair of speakers. So, here's my question: considering this hobby is an addictive one, I am already plotting for the S6's after what I heard and what I've read of late about them. Anyway, if I upgrade from my Titan's to these speakers, will the aforementioned receivers, integrateds you recommended change? Dude, thanks again for everything, I really appreciate your knowledge and input! |
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Silver Member Username: HawkHighlands Ranch, CO USA Post Number: 748 Registered: Dec-03 | Oh, Coby, you are going to drain my brain . . . I must say you have found one of the really great speaker systems for under $1K. I didn't know new speakers may be on the menu here. But I understand. Even though I think your Titans represent a fine value, I think the MAs represent a serious step up in quality, and while that may not be dispositive, the real issue is to get a system that you want to listen to. Yep, the Monitor Audios would definitely change many of my recommendations. Unlike your Titans, you should now know the MAs sound pretty forward, and are by comparison a somewhat cool sounding speaker. So, one would need to pair them with some amplification that is a little less forward, and warmer sounding. You have already heard them through an NAD T743, and like the sound, so that may well be your choice. Although NAD is a bit forward sounding, they are not overly forward. More importantly, NADs have a very warm presence that helps soften the hard edges of the MAs. So, I would definitely continue to suggest all of the NADs I previously recommended. And you know this from your own experience. However, I cannot recommend the Rotels (although if you can audition a Rotel with the MAs, you should to see for yourself). Rotels can be pretty cool sounding as well. Too cool of a system and it begins to sound "clinical" and that just isn't as enjoyable. I also have some reservations about the Outlaw which I think sounds much like the Rotels. This is not a criticism, but a recognition of how the different brands view how their products should sound. However, now I would recommend the Cambridge Audio Azure 640A integrated amp as good match for the MAs. Fairly warm, a tad laid back, it is a good match, IMO. Check out the Cambridge here: http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=CAMB640V2A&product_name= 640A%20v2%20Integrated%20Amplifier You might also still like the Music Hall, but I don't know--I have never heard the Music Hall with any speakers like the MAs. My recollection however, is that the Music Hall is much like the NADs, they fit a good range of speakers, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least. You would have to try it with those speakers to know for sure. I also like the Rega Brio with MAs, but it doesn't have enough power for the S6s, IMO. Now, recognize that I am staying within your budget. Certainly, getting new speakers suggests you can spend more, but it may also signal that you must now stay within your budget. As far as HT receivers go, I do like the Marantz SR5600 with the MAs, but not as well as the NAD. You would have to decide that one for yourself. Another choice might be the Cambridge Audio 540R AV receiver. Here is a description: http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=CAMB540V2RB&product_name =540R%20v2%2E0%20A/V%20Receiver Now I haven't heard this unit, but it is going to sound similar to the Azure 640--the question here is how close? The Cambridge Azure 540A, the 640A's little brother, does not sound nearly as open and detailed as the 640, so I have to hesitate a bit with this recommendation--I just don't know if this receiver sounds like the 640 or the 540 integrated. Bottom line, you must listen for yourself. Audio Advisor does offer a 30 day home trial on all of their products, so you can audition this one if you can't find it locally. As far as other choices for a stereo receiver, I can't think of any others. All of the usual suspects (Yamaha, Marantz, Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo, etc., put no money into their stereo receivers) and they sound dull, Dull, DULL!. Soundstage the size of a matchbox--Stay away. Like the integrateds, I think the Rotel and the Outlaw may simply be too cool sounding to be a good match, again, just my humble opinion. One final word. I am struck by your comment "WOW, talk about a great pair of speakers." It is never just a great pair of speakers. When a system is right, you know it and are engaged by the sound of the system. It can be very seductive, but if it is it's because the whole system is right, which means the source (CD player), the controls and amp (in this case, the receiver), as well as the speakers. You can't say let me get the best speakers and the best receiver, etc., and expect them to work well together. Rather, you need to match up the units that work together extremely well for your ears. It sounds like the MA S6s paired with the NAD T743 should be your benchmark for future comparisons. BTW, you were smart to listen to the receiver and speakers as a stereo setup. Most manufacturers get the HT right, but precious few can get the stereo sound right. Always audition this stuff in a stereo setup. If you should go this route (743 plus S6s), I would look to add the matching MA Center speaker within a couple of months. Whenever you go the HT route, it is very important to get the front three speakers to match, that is, make sure they are voice matched so that you have a seamless soundfield in front. You can always add surrounds and a subwoofer later from other brands since they do not need to be voice matched. Likewise, if you go the HT route and decide to keep the Titans, get the matching center speaker ASAP. |
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Bronze Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 12 Registered: Mar-06 | Hawk, I heard the S6's with the t743 along with a middle of the road NAD cd player..I have no idea what model it was but I do remember it was $399.00. The salesman said that he would prefer a Pioneer player over the NAD (they carry both) Anyway, I will probably keep the Titans for now and then add a T743 or Music Hall, or an integrated that you recommended. I want to get something that, as you said, will be a fit with as many different types of speakers possible.. I know there are inherent trade-offs here with any component- that's life, no one component will be appropriate for every possible situation or set-up. I just want to make the best decision I can when choosing these components to compliment my current set-up as well as future considerations... herein lies the "chasing of the inevitable carrot" :-) Thanks again for your input....Ecoustics should put you on their advisor payroll (although, I doubt they have one!) I really appreciate your help a ton! Cheers! Coby |
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Bronze Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 13 Registered: Mar-06 | After thinking about this further, I am going to keep the titans and max these little bad boys out, maybe add a sub (that's a whole other discussion!)in the future and then go from there..The S6's will probably be the next step in speakers, but seeing as I just got the Titan's 3 weeks ago, I want to enjoy them a little...I'm sure I can throw them on ebay or Audiogon for close to what I paid to fund the S6's when the time comes. So, back to the amplification - do you think that the Cambridge 640c would be a good match to my laid-back as you say, Titans? You didnt mention that one when I asked in my second post.. sorry to be such an inquiring pest! |
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Gold Member Username: ArtkAlbany, Oregon USA Post Number: 2954 Registered: Feb-05 | Rotel and Paradigm actually make a very good match. I lived with them for years. Rotel can be a bit forward and the Paradigm Titans lean slightly to the laid back side. Very good match. Paradigm speakers perform at their best with some real current. I would also bet that the Outlaw gear would sound good with the Paradigms. NAD is pretty uninvolving in my opinion. Soon I will be posting my impressions after using both Rotel and NAD long term. |
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Bronze Member Username: Uback007Post Number: 16 Registered: Mar-06 | Art, What Rotel components would you recommend? Integrated amp and cd player both in the "bang for the buck" category? |
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Bronze Member Username: IcebergCalgary, AB Canada Post Number: 59 Registered: Dec-03 | Hi Coby, I have Paradigm Studio 60 v3's cc570 and the Studio 20 v3's running from my ROTEL RSX 1067 Receiver. I auditioned Arcam Diva avr300 and Rotel with these speakers. They both sounded awsome but for HT i choose the Rotel. If music was main concern than i would have gone with Arcam. But these receivers are $2600 - $3200. I have not listened to outlaw since they don't carry them here in Canada but i heard lot of good things about them. And with your setup I would look in to 990/7125 combo. It will save you some $$$ and sound great. My next upgrade will be the Anthem D2 when i get some money. I will go separetes with Pre/Pro. Cheers, |